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I chose missiles. Am I screwed in pvp?

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Detshni	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:06:00 - [1] Ok, here is the deal. Over lasers, blasters, guns, and all that.. I chose missile as my combat buddy. I use raven for ratting, and it works great in 0.0, but I have never done any real pvp yet. My friends tell me I shouldn't bother, before I skill up either laser or blaster, or guns. But are missile boats that crap in pvp? seriously? I mean if I equip a raven for pvp, it should survive, or at least be a helping hand? Or maybe not? Maybe in pvp, missiles are just fireworks, that are nice to look at but not the real damage dealers? What are your thoughts on the matter, I could seriously need some help.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:09:00 - [2] With the coming changes to torpedoes theyre gonna own pretty nice for closerange pvp.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:11:00 - [3] Wait till the torpedo change goes live on Tranquility. If numbers stay as they are now a Raven should be able to do similar damage to a Blasterthon at ranges of about 20-25km. The setups ive played with on sisi are capable of mounting superior HP buffer tanks to my own Mega, with very similar DPS. Theyre even more agile as they dont have to rely on speed and agility killing plates and armor rigs. Still cant tackle worth a damn tho but hey, you cant have everything.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:14:00 - [4] yes you are screwed. But there are some ships that can use missiles and pvp. Phoenix, crow, damnation, sacrilege, typhoon. Those are your best options to use missiles in pvp. Well sure you can use some other missile boats but dont come back here crying when your buddies are smacking you cos you dont do enough damage, you cant tackle and you are the slowest in their gang.
Detshni	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:20:00 - [5] what about the cerberus?
Ancallan COLD-Wing Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:20:00 - [6] I hate to be cryptic and vague, but each weapon type is good for different circumstances and playing styles. If you enjoy missiles, go with missiles. They won't ruin your life and preclude you from ever PvPing ever again. In fact, they can be pretty effective. I use missile, hybrids, and projectiles. My personal preference changes with my mood and how I feel like I want to play. I'd say it'd be very worthwhile to do some research into the different divisions and think about which ones give you a warm, fuzzy, feeling to destroy stuff with. I've seen people use missiles exclusively and just tear apart anything. I've also have seen the same be done with turrets. The biggest difference in how effective they are is dependant apon two factors: your playstyle and the situation you're in. In this game, if someone slams something as being crap, chances are it's because they simply don't like the feel of it. Or they're Amarr.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Detshni what about the cerberus? compare cerberus to sacrilege and you'll see. Sacri has more dps, speed, tank and can tackle better.
Plave Okice Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:24:00 - [8] There are lots of situations in which Missile boats, and indeed Caldari missile boats are very effective. The only two areas you'll really struggle in are solo PvP (but that's because your tanking mid slots are needed for scrams etc, so it's more a Caldari issue than a missile issue) and long range fleet battles where any target primaried will be dead before your missiles even reach. Small to medium gangs, most Caldari ships can be great, the new torp raven will be interesting too. Havign said that, I'm 40 mill sp all Gallente Si vis pacem, para bellum
Diomidis Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:38:00 - [9] IMHO a low SP player has a better chance in PvP with missiles than with turrets or drones. Missiles are fine for roaming gang PvP, not so effective in long range fleet battles. Train up your missile support skills, to increase missile speed + dmg and decrease firing-to-hitting times and explosion radius and you are fine. Base dps for missile boats and a low/medium skilled pilot is very good compared to insta-dmg turrets. And you don't have to worry about tracking as with turrets. Only ceptors and vagas can really outrun your missiles, but cummon...they can outrun/out-track anything up close...even very good fitted turret ships manned by high-skill experienced PvPers. By trial-and-error you will build up confidence and decent tactics. Just keep your ratting business active to sustain the inevitable losses that shouldn't discourage you.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Plave Okice There are lots of situations in which Missile boats, and indeed Caldari missile boats are very effective. The only two areas you'll really struggle in are solo PvP (but that's because your tanking mid slots are needed for scrams etc, so it's more a Caldari issue than a missile issue) and long range fleet battles where any target primaried will be dead before your missiles even reach. Small to medium gangs, most Caldari ships can be great, the new torp raven will be interesting too. Havign said that, I'm 40 mill sp all Gallente Very effective? Give me 1 situation. I bet i can allways find a turret or drone ship thats better for that situation. I have 61m sp, i used to fly only caldari but i finally had to give up. Ships i flied were nerfed 1 after another. Hell, i had to train amarr cruiser 5 to get some good pvp missile ships. Soon ill be finishing minmatar BS 5.
Plave Okice Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:41:00 - [11] "Very effective" isn't the same as the best, sure there are better ships and setups for many situations, but that still doesn't mean they're not effective. Si vis pacem, para bellum
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Plave Okice "Very effective" isn't the same as the best, sure there are better ships and setups for many situations, but that still doesn't mean they're not effective. Why choose the worst when you can have the best. Just say 1 situation where missiles are better. Oh and don't say "missiles can choose their damage" cos thats utter crap. There are only handful of missile boats that can do that and most of them aren't even caldari.
Jamie Lee	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:53:00 - [13] But caldari has the best PVE ships and the torpedo change will make raven awesome med/close range ship
Plave Okice Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:53:00 - [14] Where did I say they were better? Si vis pacem, para bellum
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:56:00 - [15] "I chose missiles. Am I screwed in pvp?" Yes. ========================= Weko Hast > fill a domi up with light suicide drones and drone navigation links arbalesttom > rofl!!! emo-drones? DONT REMOVE MY SIGGIES!!! ===========
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Jamie Lee But caldari has the best PVE ships and the torpedo change will make raven awesome med/close range ship torp nerf will screw PVE ravens hard. But if you like 300 dps you can always change from torps to cruise missiles. Its only going to take 3 times more time to complete the same missions. But its not like i care about missions, at least finally ravens wont be the kings of pve anymore. To quote some movie: Ravens will be the kings of Jack and **** and Jack has just left the town.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Plave Okice Where did I say they were better? Ok, you didn't. You said very effective. Very effective compared to what?
Gale Galenus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:04:00 - [18] Missiles are fine. I wouldnt worry too much and experiment with smaller ships that you can afford to lose if you wanna Pvp. Missiles are brilliant gang support weapons and I think you'd be fine even if you attempt a little piracy. Fool around a bit, see what YOU think and then decide for yourself. ------
Akyla Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:31:00 - [19] Missiles have the disadvantage that they're not as good at shortrange as a blasterthron and not as good at long range as an artillery type of setup. On the otherhands, missiles are similarly effective at both ranges while a blasterboat has no dps at anything but short range and an artillery ship has problems with dps and transversal at short range. So if you want to specialize in dps, no they're not as good. But they are effective. ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:50:00 - [20] Cerb using T2 assault launchers and precision lights can effectively kill interceptors, not many ships can do that. Oh, and it can get faction assault launchers (max skills, 2 T2 BCS) to fire faster than unbonused T1 rocket launchers. Also, the Ferox makes an awesome gang link ship, because it sucks so hardcore that NOBODY will think to shoot the Ferox first. The Drake is also nice because it's the only battlecruiser which can maintain good survivability even when fitted for full gank. Plenty of uses for missile ships, it's just difficult to pull it off solo. I would recommend picking up electronic warfare skills as a side (ECM boats are a real pain, and even the other ships do nicely with sensor damps). ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Diomidis Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:12:00 - [21] If there is no chance for Missile Boats in PvP, why so many ppl fly them? Even members of uber Alliances regularly take out Ravens (yes, cruise fitted, but torps are on their way to PvP)...Cerbs and Drakes are common too. Yes, they eventually pop as do Vagas, Istars, Crows and many other "better" so-called ships. The only way not to eventually losing a ship in PvP is not using it for regular PvP. Any PvP ship has to be expendable. Don't fly anything you cannot afford to lose, so hard working NPC Ravens really help If you are looking for the ultimate solo pwn-mobile forget it...CCP pushes hard towards team play, so a balanced gang of at least 2 members is the minimum for fights between competent PvPers, more so in the imminent future.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:22:00 - [22] Hey, you could have chosen lasers. Cheer up It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:31:00 - [23] yes, you're screwed, cause now you've chosen missiles you can never ever train for turrets that's the beauty of eve, you're not limited to x or y after you chose it. Yes it'll take time to train up turret skills(and even other race ships if you want too), but you're not limited to missile-barge raven just because you chose for a caldari char and trained missile skills ;) ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie! For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Akyla Missiles have the disadvantage that they're not as good at shortrange as a blasterthron Don't worry, this will change... After torp change, if you have others taking care of tackling, you can do Bthron-like damage (almost 1100 DPS) out to 30km with no cap use, have 71k effective hit points and 500+ DPS active tank which you can maintain until your cap charges run out (or 13+ minutes). One painter is also included for the smaller targets. -- Gradient forum
Endless Subversion	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:43:00 - [25] You're absolutely fine. Missiles are nasty. In anything cruiser sized and up you're almost always in range, meaning you contribute dps early and consistenly throughout a fight. A well skilled missile boat fielding heavies will do significant damage to a number of the slower nano ships. Things like the zealot, sacrilege and curse are going to have issues sticking around or actually dpsing while they are absorbing your missile spam. Additionally ships like the vaga and zealot (when they are fast enough to outrun your missile dps) have to slow down to deal their own dps, which they can't do for any length of time with missile spam. FoFs are a nightmare for small recon gangs and mission gankers as they kill hard to replace drones and prevent long term tackling which low dps gangs often need to break BS sized tanks. Torps are going to be sick DPS at great ranges. You can, to some degree, decide your damage type. Granted a number of boats get specific dmg bonuses, BUT, there are a good number of ships that rely to some degree on missiles (raven, sac, curse, damnation) that don't. If you're a newer character you probably haven't specialized in a racial cruiser yet. I'd strongly reccomend Caldari BS's, caldari tech II frigs with amarr tech II cruisers. This maximizes your boat and role options while keeping you specialized in missiles. You get the Raven, which is the best PvE boat, a great small-mid size gang BS and a soon to be monster dps dealer and the scorpion for ew support. Later as you get older and wish to enter into large sized fleet pvp you get the rokh, which is a low gunnery skill point friendly sniper boat. For small roaming gangs you get the curse and the sac, amazing ships if you have decent missile skills. And if you choose the battlecruiser/commandship route you have the damnation and the drake, two of the most useful BCs around.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:50:00 - [26] Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main)
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:56:00 - [27] For fleet combat, yeah, you are screwed. For any other type of PVP you are fine with missiles.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:09:00 - [28] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 01/11/2007 14:09:18 Originally by: LVirus Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) You are whining about caldari... but this topic is about missiles in general. Huginn Lachesis Typhoon Curse(4 launcher slots, plenty of setups that can make use of them) Sacrilige Rook Crow Drake They are not bad, at all. There are plenty of (very) good missile ships, but the actual problem is that unlike other races, all specific gunships are in one race. E.g all good projectile ships are Minmatar, good hybrid ships are gallente etcetc. Yet, all good missile ships are not caldari...
Diomidis Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:11:00 - [29] Originally by: LVirus All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) Well, I am an 2006 "toon" main character with slightly above 17M SP...so what? That means that I'm talking crap and "spamming crap" when I say that you really can PvP in a missile boat? Stop being sarcastic and you maybe help a new player that wants to try sth new without getting old in real life, waiting for "that skill that can make him "uber"... There is no "uber"...and if it gets close, it gets nerfed as-soon-as more than a handful of ppl train for it anyways
CountDrakula Fracked Inc Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:17:00 - [30] Missiles do not boast anywhere near the DPS of other gun ships in the same market, how ever as a general rule, there alpha strike is what i value when pvping in missile ships. A nice gank fit nighthawk will hold its own in any fight. Pvp in caldari is more a kin to pvp in minny ships. To be anygood you need everything 5. But once its all 5 watch the killmails roll in Killer Hamster on the loose

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