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I chose missiles. Am I screwed in pvp?

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Detshni	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:06:00 - [1] Ok, here is the deal. Over lasers, blasters, guns, and all that.. I chose missile as my combat buddy. I use raven for ratting, and it works great in 0.0, but I have never done any real pvp yet. My friends tell me I shouldn't bother, before I skill up either laser or blaster, or guns. But are missile boats that crap in pvp? seriously? I mean if I equip a raven for pvp, it should survive, or at least be a helping hand? Or maybe not? Maybe in pvp, missiles are just fireworks, that are nice to look at but not the real damage dealers? What are your thoughts on the matter, I could seriously need some help.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:09:00 - [2] With the coming changes to torpedoes theyre gonna own pretty nice for closerange pvp.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:11:00 - [3] Wait till the torpedo change goes live on Tranquility. If numbers stay as they are now a Raven should be able to do similar damage to a Blasterthon at ranges of about 20-25km. The setups ive played with on sisi are capable of mounting superior HP buffer tanks to my own Mega, with very similar DPS. Theyre even more agile as they dont have to rely on speed and agility killing plates and armor rigs. Still cant tackle worth a damn tho but hey, you cant have everything.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:14:00 - [4] yes you are screwed. But there are some ships that can use missiles and pvp. Phoenix, crow, damnation, sacrilege, typhoon. Those are your best options to use missiles in pvp. Well sure you can use some other missile boats but dont come back here crying when your buddies are smacking you cos you dont do enough damage, you cant tackle and you are the slowest in their gang.
Detshni	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:20:00 - [5] what about the cerberus?
Ancallan COLD-Wing Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:20:00 - [6] I hate to be cryptic and vague, but each weapon type is good for different circumstances and playing styles. If you enjoy missiles, go with missiles. They won't ruin your life and preclude you from ever PvPing ever again. In fact, they can be pretty effective. I use missile, hybrids, and projectiles. My personal preference changes with my mood and how I feel like I want to play. I'd say it'd be very worthwhile to do some research into the different divisions and think about which ones give you a warm, fuzzy, feeling to destroy stuff with. I've seen people use missiles exclusively and just tear apart anything. I've also have seen the same be done with turrets. The biggest difference in how effective they are is dependant apon two factors: your playstyle and the situation you're in. In this game, if someone slams something as being crap, chances are it's because they simply don't like the feel of it. Or they're Amarr.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Detshni what about the cerberus? compare cerberus to sacrilege and you'll see. Sacri has more dps, speed, tank and can tackle better.
Plave Okice Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:24:00 - [8] There are lots of situations in which Missile boats, and indeed Caldari missile boats are very effective. The only two areas you'll really struggle in are solo PvP (but that's because your tanking mid slots are needed for scrams etc, so it's more a Caldari issue than a missile issue) and long range fleet battles where any target primaried will be dead before your missiles even reach. Small to medium gangs, most Caldari ships can be great, the new torp raven will be interesting too. Havign said that, I'm 40 mill sp all Gallente Si vis pacem, para bellum
Diomidis Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:38:00 - [9] IMHO a low SP player has a better chance in PvP with missiles than with turrets or drones. Missiles are fine for roaming gang PvP, not so effective in long range fleet battles. Train up your missile support skills, to increase missile speed + dmg and decrease firing-to-hitting times and explosion radius and you are fine. Base dps for missile boats and a low/medium skilled pilot is very good compared to insta-dmg turrets. And you don't have to worry about tracking as with turrets. Only ceptors and vagas can really outrun your missiles, but cummon...they can outrun/out-track anything up close...even very good fitted turret ships manned by high-skill experienced PvPers. By trial-and-error you will build up confidence and decent tactics. Just keep your ratting business active to sustain the inevitable losses that shouldn't discourage you.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Plave Okice There are lots of situations in which Missile boats, and indeed Caldari missile boats are very effective. The only two areas you'll really struggle in are solo PvP (but that's because your tanking mid slots are needed for scrams etc, so it's more a Caldari issue than a missile issue) and long range fleet battles where any target primaried will be dead before your missiles even reach. Small to medium gangs, most Caldari ships can be great, the new torp raven will be interesting too. Havign said that, I'm 40 mill sp all Gallente Very effective? Give me 1 situation. I bet i can allways find a turret or drone ship thats better for that situation. I have 61m sp, i used to fly only caldari but i finally had to give up. Ships i flied were nerfed 1 after another. Hell, i had to train amarr cruiser 5 to get some good pvp missile ships. Soon ill be finishing minmatar BS 5.
Plave Okice Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:41:00 - [11] "Very effective" isn't the same as the best, sure there are better ships and setups for many situations, but that still doesn't mean they're not effective. Si vis pacem, para bellum
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Plave Okice "Very effective" isn't the same as the best, sure there are better ships and setups for many situations, but that still doesn't mean they're not effective. Why choose the worst when you can have the best. Just say 1 situation where missiles are better. Oh and don't say "missiles can choose their damage" cos thats utter crap. There are only handful of missile boats that can do that and most of them aren't even caldari.
Jamie Lee	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:53:00 - [13] But caldari has the best PVE ships and the torpedo change will make raven awesome med/close range ship
Plave Okice Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:53:00 - [14] Where did I say they were better? Si vis pacem, para bellum
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:56:00 - [15] "I chose missiles. Am I screwed in pvp?" Yes. ========================= Weko Hast > fill a domi up with light suicide drones and drone navigation links arbalesttom > rofl!!! emo-drones? DONT REMOVE MY SIGGIES!!! ===========
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Jamie Lee But caldari has the best PVE ships and the torpedo change will make raven awesome med/close range ship torp nerf will screw PVE ravens hard. But if you like 300 dps you can always change from torps to cruise missiles. Its only going to take 3 times more time to complete the same missions. But its not like i care about missions, at least finally ravens wont be the kings of pve anymore. To quote some movie: Ravens will be the kings of Jack and **** and Jack has just left the town.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Plave Okice Where did I say they were better? Ok, you didn't. You said very effective. Very effective compared to what?
Gale Galenus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:04:00 - [18] Missiles are fine. I wouldnt worry too much and experiment with smaller ships that you can afford to lose if you wanna Pvp. Missiles are brilliant gang support weapons and I think you'd be fine even if you attempt a little piracy. Fool around a bit, see what YOU think and then decide for yourself. ------
Akyla Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:31:00 - [19] Missiles have the disadvantage that they're not as good at shortrange as a blasterthron and not as good at long range as an artillery type of setup. On the otherhands, missiles are similarly effective at both ranges while a blasterboat has no dps at anything but short range and an artillery ship has problems with dps and transversal at short range. So if you want to specialize in dps, no they're not as good. But they are effective. ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:50:00 - [20] Cerb using T2 assault launchers and precision lights can effectively kill interceptors, not many ships can do that. Oh, and it can get faction assault launchers (max skills, 2 T2 BCS) to fire faster than unbonused T1 rocket launchers. Also, the Ferox makes an awesome gang link ship, because it sucks so hardcore that NOBODY will think to shoot the Ferox first. The Drake is also nice because it's the only battlecruiser which can maintain good survivability even when fitted for full gank. Plenty of uses for missile ships, it's just difficult to pull it off solo. I would recommend picking up electronic warfare skills as a side (ECM boats are a real pain, and even the other ships do nicely with sensor damps). ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Diomidis Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:12:00 - [21] If there is no chance for Missile Boats in PvP, why so many ppl fly them? Even members of uber Alliances regularly take out Ravens (yes, cruise fitted, but torps are on their way to PvP)...Cerbs and Drakes are common too. Yes, they eventually pop as do Vagas, Istars, Crows and many other "better" so-called ships. The only way not to eventually losing a ship in PvP is not using it for regular PvP. Any PvP ship has to be expendable. Don't fly anything you cannot afford to lose, so hard working NPC Ravens really help If you are looking for the ultimate solo pwn-mobile forget it...CCP pushes hard towards team play, so a balanced gang of at least 2 members is the minimum for fights between competent PvPers, more so in the imminent future.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:22:00 - [22] Hey, you could have chosen lasers. Cheer up It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:31:00 - [23] yes, you're screwed, cause now you've chosen missiles you can never ever train for turrets that's the beauty of eve, you're not limited to x or y after you chose it. Yes it'll take time to train up turret skills(and even other race ships if you want too), but you're not limited to missile-barge raven just because you chose for a caldari char and trained missile skills ;) ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie! For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Akyla Missiles have the disadvantage that they're not as good at shortrange as a blasterthron Don't worry, this will change... After torp change, if you have others taking care of tackling, you can do Bthron-like damage (almost 1100 DPS) out to 30km with no cap use, have 71k effective hit points and 500+ DPS active tank which you can maintain until your cap charges run out (or 13+ minutes). One painter is also included for the smaller targets. -- Gradient forum
Endless Subversion	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:43:00 - [25] You're absolutely fine. Missiles are nasty. In anything cruiser sized and up you're almost always in range, meaning you contribute dps early and consistenly throughout a fight. A well skilled missile boat fielding heavies will do significant damage to a number of the slower nano ships. Things like the zealot, sacrilege and curse are going to have issues sticking around or actually dpsing while they are absorbing your missile spam. Additionally ships like the vaga and zealot (when they are fast enough to outrun your missile dps) have to slow down to deal their own dps, which they can't do for any length of time with missile spam. FoFs are a nightmare for small recon gangs and mission gankers as they kill hard to replace drones and prevent long term tackling which low dps gangs often need to break BS sized tanks. Torps are going to be sick DPS at great ranges. You can, to some degree, decide your damage type. Granted a number of boats get specific dmg bonuses, BUT, there are a good number of ships that rely to some degree on missiles (raven, sac, curse, damnation) that don't. If you're a newer character you probably haven't specialized in a racial cruiser yet. I'd strongly reccomend Caldari BS's, caldari tech II frigs with amarr tech II cruisers. This maximizes your boat and role options while keeping you specialized in missiles. You get the Raven, which is the best PvE boat, a great small-mid size gang BS and a soon to be monster dps dealer and the scorpion for ew support. Later as you get older and wish to enter into large sized fleet pvp you get the rokh, which is a low gunnery skill point friendly sniper boat. For small roaming gangs you get the curse and the sac, amazing ships if you have decent missile skills. And if you choose the battlecruiser/commandship route you have the damnation and the drake, two of the most useful BCs around.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:50:00 - [26] Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main)
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:56:00 - [27] For fleet combat, yeah, you are screwed. For any other type of PVP you are fine with missiles.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:09:00 - [28] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 01/11/2007 14:09:18 Originally by: LVirus Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) You are whining about caldari... but this topic is about missiles in general. Huginn Lachesis Typhoon Curse(4 launcher slots, plenty of setups that can make use of them) Sacrilige Rook Crow Drake They are not bad, at all. There are plenty of (very) good missile ships, but the actual problem is that unlike other races, all specific gunships are in one race. E.g all good projectile ships are Minmatar, good hybrid ships are gallente etcetc. Yet, all good missile ships are not caldari...
Diomidis Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:11:00 - [29] Originally by: LVirus All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) Well, I am an 2006 "toon" main character with slightly above 17M SP...so what? That means that I'm talking crap and "spamming crap" when I say that you really can PvP in a missile boat? Stop being sarcastic and you maybe help a new player that wants to try sth new without getting old in real life, waiting for "that skill that can make him "uber"... There is no "uber"...and if it gets close, it gets nerfed as-soon-as more than a handful of ppl train for it anyways
CountDrakula Fracked Inc Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:17:00 - [30] Missiles do not boast anywhere near the DPS of other gun ships in the same market, how ever as a general rule, there alpha strike is what i value when pvping in missile ships. A nice gank fit nighthawk will hold its own in any fight. Pvp in caldari is more a kin to pvp in minny ships. To be anygood you need everything 5. But once its all 5 watch the killmails roll in Killer Hamster on the loose
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:27:00 - [31] Huginn <<< 3/3 layout with 40m3 drones . So its not really a missile boat. Also what makes its special is its webrange. Else it would be just another nanovaga. Lachesis <<< again 3/3 with 40m3 drones, so not a pure missile boat. Also its bonuses are what make it special, damp and scram. Typhoon <<< 4/4 with 150m3 drones. So once again a ship that requires ****loads of skills to be fitted to be used at its finest. Curse(4 launcher slots, plenty of setups that can make use of them) <<< sry haven't seen any curses that use missiles instead of neut/nos. Sacrilige <<< as i said, its propably the best missile pvp ship around. Rook <<< Rooks were good before nerf. Atm they are getting a slight boost and might be worth of something after that but still its primary role is not a missile boat. Crow <<< again, as i said that a ship that can fill its role. Drake <<< Whats good about it? Npc killing carebear ship? Not much use in pvp. There are plenty of other ships that id rather see in my gang.
dAn melax Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:36:00 - [32] missiles and smartbombs >> all only real man know how to fly and fight using those two. Guns are for carebears ;] Play Hard. Go Pro.
Detshni	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:47:00 - [33] WOW.. I really got a reply to this topic didn't I.. People care it seems, and that is nice to see. Ah well, I was in a fleet op today actually in a crow. Too bad my daughter had to be picked up, so I couldn't stay for the actual fight.. but it is a start. I have never pvp'd before, so it will be fun. And yes, I do have a pve raven handy, and it uses cruise missiles so I'll be all set when the torp pve nerf / torp pvp boost hits the cellar. My character does have some gallente in the skill tree as well, but that is another story.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:49:00 - [34] A Cerb is actually a pretty tasty short range damage dealer in a gang. Ive played with a little, coming from minnie and gallente HACs, and altho my missile skilsl arent perfect ive been pretty impressed by it, especially when using HAM's. And anyone who says its damage isnt on par is well off base. Just have a look at some stats ( I know they arent the be all and end all but they still illustrate a point): Cerb: 5 HAM II w/ Terror Rage - 300 DPS at 25km Muninn: 5x 720II w/Quake - 231 DPS, 11km optimal, 22 falloff. At 25km Approx 180 DPS Zealot: 4x Heavy Pulse II w/ Conflag 270 DPS, 11km Optimal, 5km Falloff. Loaded with Scorch 210 DPS @ 34km Harbinger: 7x Heavy Pulse II w/ Scorch PLUS 5x Hammerhead II, 430 DPS @25km Hurricane: 6x 720II w/ Quake PLUS 5x Hobgoblin II 370 DPS, 7.5KM Optimal, 22km falloff, approx 240 DPS 25km. It's not hard to see that, particularly with HAM's, a Cerb is quite capable of provinding good DPS at better ranges than a lot of ships. Add in a not awful shield tank and you have pretty solid gang platform.
mishkof Caldari Emerald Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:50:00 - [35] Originally by: LVirus Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) What? Dont get mad because you put 12 million SP in missiles. Looks like all that experience before 2006 really helped you out. lol.
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:18:00 - [36] Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Plave Okice "Very effective" isn't the same as the best, sure there are better ships and setups for many situations, but that still doesn't mean they're not effective. Why choose the worst when you can have the best. Just say 1 situation where missiles are better. Oh and don't say "missiles can choose their damage" cos thats utter crap. There are only handful of missile boats that can do that and most of them aren't even caldari. Sacrilege is one of the best low-sec gate campers I have ever used. It relies on missiles (and can choose its damage type because of the missiles). Every missile ship can choose its damage type and you can't ignore that. I fire 1 volley of missiles and take note of what is doing the most damage whenever I feel like doing so. The drake is also an excellent low-sec gate camping ship with shield booster tank and cap injector. It can also choose its own damage type like every other missile ship. The Cerberus is an excellent mid to short range missile ship. I've also seen it rip apart small tacklers. It's a good support ship. The crow is a great rocket ship as is the Malediction. Any situation where tracking is an issue for guns is also a situation where you would rather use missiles. If they're outrunning the missiles then it wouldn't really matter what weapon you use either way. --- Put in space whales!
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:25:00 - [37] cerb and drake have kinetic damage bonuses. Meaning that they cant truly choose their damage. If you don't use kinetic you loose 25% of your already pathetic dps.
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:27:00 - [38] In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
goodby4u Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:33:00 - [39] Tbh with eve just choose what you like to do best and make it work in pvp,no race or group of weapons overpower all.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:36:00 - [40] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:41:00 - [41] Originally by: LVirus Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) Hello. Missiles have never, ever sucked. Never. They have been OMGWTFBBQ, they have been on-par, they have been slightly less usefull, but never sucked. Only weapontype that never sucked tbh _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:42:00 - [42] Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:43:44 Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. 6xHAMIIs and whatever, 1xmwdII 1xPhotnII 2xInvII 1xLSEII 2xpduII 3xbcuII it fits count damage with drones and I said it cant tackle so your observation = pointless. Sheesh! Edit PS: LVirus are you feeling allright? new accoutn owner? what's the matter? Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:45:00 - [43] Peopel are forgeting the stealth bombers that on my opinion are the best missile users in game. Great support poppers. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
OOOSOOO	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:22:00 - [44] Edited by: OOOSOOO on 01/11/2007 16:24:32 Cerberus Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Overdrive Injector System II 10MN Afterburner II Remote Sensor Dampener II Remote Sensor Dampener II Remote Sensor Dampener II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Thats right kiddies. No tank. No tackle, but you will be a nice addition to a gang with the ability to ewar most targets to nothing and with faction ammo doing about 445 dps(damage of your choice) with a 40km range. You will be able to run everything for 5 minutes and do about 500m/s. I have used missiles for PVP and nothing else. They have proven to be effective if you got da skillz. Note: I have AWU 5, HAC 4, and most missile support skills to 5. HAM spec is only at 4. Edit: Loaded up with Javelin ammo in this setup my speed is reduced, but I hit with 329dps at 163km.
Sean Faust	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:38:00 - [45] The problem isn't that you chose missiles as a weapon of choice. Every weapon in the game has its pros and cons and in the end it all comes down to playstyle, and regardless of what your weapon of choice is there will ALWAYS be a need for you in any medium-large group PvP situation. The problem with (Caldari) ships is that they depend on shield tanks rather than armor tanks, which means that they can't fit any of the EWAR "toys" you need for solo/small gang because your tanking modules take up your mid slots. In a solo/small gang setting it is NECESSARY to be able to equip these "toys" because everyone must be able to function essentially as a tackler in some manner or another. So you're killing your own tank. Armor tanking ships (Amarr missile ships) don't have this problem because their tanking mods go in the low slots. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule, such as the Manticore. Those stealth bombers kill in PvP regardless of which race you chose as they have all essentially been "normalized" now and share identical stats/bonuses. Summed up in a nutshell: Missiles are fine for pvp, just not Caldari missile ships. Caldari ships lack the ability to equip tanking modules and EWAR modules together and that is a HUGE downfall for them. Train up Amarr and all the armor tanking skills needed to properly fit it you'll be fine. Keep your Raven for PvE as it is the best ratting ship in the game and use Amarr ships for PvP.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:02:00 - [46] Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. I get 500 DPS with my Nighthawk using Heavy Missiles. I think you missed something.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:43:44 Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. 6xHAMIIs and whatever, 1xmwdII 1xPhotnII 2xInvII 1xLSEII 2xpduII 3xbcuII it fits count damage with drones and I said it cant tackle so your observation = pointless. Sheesh! Edit PS: LVirus are you feeling allright? new accoutn owner? what's the matter? yeah it still me. Im just ****ed cos i have nothing to fly and my last ship is going to be nerfed with the next patch. My new project wont me much cheaper, around 5b for a decent solo pvp ship. But anyway that NH is still doing around 500 dps. That tank isn't very impressive and it still cant tackle.
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:06:00 - [48] Crow. Far and away one of my favourite pvp ships. This coming from someone with almost 5 times as many gunnery sp's as missile. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:21:00 - [49] Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:43:44 Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. 6xHAMIIs and whatever, 1xmwdII 1xPhotnII 2xInvII 1xLSEII 2xpduII 3xbcuII it fits count damage with drones and I said it cant tackle so your observation = pointless. Sheesh! Edit PS: LVirus are you feeling allright? new accoutn owner? what's the matter? yeah it still me. Im just ***ed cos i have nothing to fly and my last ship is going to be nerfed with the next patch. My new project wont me much cheaper, around 5b for a decent solo pvp ship. But anyway that NH is still doing around 500 dps. That tank isn't very impressive and it still cant tackle. 1151.11.0861.0561.251.251.11.03 = 256 * 6 = 1541 6.4.85.9.9(1-.105)(1-.105.86)(1-.105.56).75.97 = 2.457 1541 / 2.457 = 627
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:01:00 - [50] Originally by: J Valkor 1151.11.0861.0561.251.251.11.03 = 256 6 = 1541 6.4.85.9.9(1-.105)(1-.105.86)(1-.105.56).75.97 = 2.457 1541 / 2.457 = 627 Plus 5*Hobgoblin IIs = 99 extra DPS. 726 total. -- Gradient forum
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:28:00 - [51] Quote: The problem with (Caldari) ships is that they depend on shield tanks rather than armor tanks, which means that they can't fit any of the EWAR "toys" you need for solo/small gang because your tanking modules take up your mid slots. No no no. You have it completely the wrong way round. Stop fitting inane cookiecutter PVE fits and use the Caldari racial advantages. Btw, triple BCS HAM Drake, with 5 hobgobs and 3% implants, does 674 DPS with max skills. And it can fit MWD and 5x ewar. So it has no tank, bar a DC, but who primaries a Drake...?
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: J Valkor 1151.11.0861.0561.251.251.11.03 = 256 6 = 1541 6.4.85.9.9(1-.105)(1-.105.86)(1-.105.56).75.97 = 2.457 1541 / 2.457 = 627 Plus 5Hobgoblin IIs = 99 extra DPS. 726 total. So I was right after all :) I hadnt actually done the math I was just going on how it felt in action compared to my Mega Astarte and Abbadon ... If you think that I was using warrior IIs I was even closer than 726 :D I can be scawy at times :) Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.*
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:39:00 - [53] how are torps being changed in the future?
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:37:00 - [54] Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 01/11/2007 21:44:29 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker how are torps being changed in the future? Huge Rate of fire increase, explosion radius increase, HUGE range nerf - though they'll still have good range. And as for the effectiveness of missiles VS turrets, it's like this: Turrets have a much higher dps - but only at their narrow optimal range. Missiles have a lower dps on average, but it's consistent at all ranges - and that's a bonus. It's like this. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:51:00 - [55] LVirus, we all know you win EVE and are the best at fitting ships ever, but please, get off everyones balls and stop arguing against anything anyone says. -------------------------- "There's always a bigger blob." -Qui-Gon Jinn
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:25:00 - [56] And if anyone wants proof of missle effectiveness, have a look at the top burn eden pilots and their ships/weapons of choice: http://udie.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=SATAN A certain Mr Satan has some 4700 kills in his raven. We could argue all day about their modus operandi and tbh it wouldnt be my first choice .... but it works and works well.
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Peopel are forgeting the stealth bombers that on my opinion are the best missile users in game. Great support poppers. I fly the stealth bomber exclusively these days in low-sec for belt pirating. Damps + 24km scram + rats helping you = fun times. Using Purifier btw. Very fun ships to fly. --- Put in space whales!
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:58:00 - [58] Caldari tend to suck for solo PvP, but in gangs they are quite good. - Cerbs are great all around ships. Good damage at long range for a cruiser. - fly a rook, and everybody will love you - ravens are solid dmg dealers for small gangs, but not very mobile - crows are still probably the best all around ceptor - drakes are cost effective, difficult to kill dmg dealers, decent in slow moving gangs. They have their limitations...but they are far from useless. Train up some rails, and you'll be happy with a rohk for fleet fights, or an eagle for killing support.
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:04:00 - [59] As a life long caldari pilot, I can answer this. Yes. your screwed. Train up turrets and fly a rohk/eagles. Otherwise fly a differant race. missles in PVP blow. Maybe the new raven will be okay. I guess that remains to be seen, but I still really doubt your going to see many in a fleet engagement. _________________________________
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:58:00 - [60] Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 02/11/2007 00:00:27 Originally by: Turin As a life long caldari pilot, I can answer this. Yes. your screwed. Train up turrets and fly a rohk/eagles. Otherwise fly a differant race. missles in PVP blow. Maybe the new raven will be okay. I guess that remains to be seen, but I still really doubt your going to see many in a fleet engagement. Hmm, look at that killboard posted by Call'Da Poleece one more time. In their top 13 killers list, 96.7% of their kills were with missile ships. What's your explanation for that, Turin? -edit- And remember, this is BEFORE the torp buff! Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:07:00 - [61] IÆm going to have to agree with my alliance mate Turin. As a highly specialized Caldari pilot IÆve turned away almost exclusively from missiles. Turrets generally do better damageà and the advantage of doing damage instantaneously cannot be overstated. I donÆt believe missiles are horrible in PVP. However, most Caldari missile boats receive range bonuses to missiles, which are nearly useless, and in many ways are counterproductive. If you want to make use of the velocity/flight time bonus then you have to stay at a distance where missile flight time means youÆre most likely not going to land a missile before the target is down. If you want to stay close, then youÆre going to throw those bonuses away. If youÆre going to be PVPing the majority of the time then give up on missiles. My crusade for faster missiles.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:46:00 - [62] a drake with HAMs im sure could be fun in a small gang, if anything it would certainly give a ballsy AF pilot thinking he can easygank a sniper a wakeup call.
FOFOFOF	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:03:00 - [63] Take care, at first i tought missiles are way cool cause they make boom and always hits... but them i got bored, you have nothing to play with... missiles are boring as hell, 100x you fight, 100x the same dmg, range, effect etc... I dont care if missiles are good or bad, they are boring, you barely can change ammo...
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:14:00 - [64] Originally by: Tovarishch IÆm going to have to agree with my alliance mate Turin. As a highly specialized Caldari pilot IÆve turned away almost exclusively from missiles. Turrets generally do better damageà and the advantage of doing damage instantaneously cannot be overstated. I donÆt believe missiles are horrible in PVP. However, most Caldari missile boats receive range bonuses to missiles, which are nearly useless, and in many ways are counterproductive. If you want to make use of the velocity/flight time bonus then you have to stay at a distance where missile flight time means youÆre most likely not going to land a missile before the target is down. If you want to stay close, then youÆre going to throw those bonuses away. If youÆre going to be PVPing the majority of the time then give up on missiles. It really depends on what you are doing. As it stands, half the problem with Caldari ships is that the pilots dont embrace their high CPU and high med slot configs to specialize in gang warfare. I cant tell you what battlecruiser i would rather have in a small gang that was sporting a dictor and a few tacklers than a 3dmg mod drake with 4 damps. That and HAM/Siege fitting problems[before the siege boost that is]
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:30:00 - [65] Saying missiles are awesome looking at BE killboard is pretty dumb TBH. It's their tactics as small gangs that are effective, it just happens now the raven best serves their tactics. I'm now training for Amarr cruiser 5, I always loved the Suckriledge, which doesn't suck anymore, but Caldari ships? Meh at best. Some ok ships, nothing special, most being sub-par. Not shining with turrets neither mind you. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Rudolfus Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:01:00 - [66] I've always enjoyed missiles because of their "fire and forget it" approach to combat. No transverals to worry about, falloff, etc etc. My only complaint is being left off of killmails because the primary pops before my volley of fun even gets halways to the target If you're really that down and out about your missile skills, Caldari can make a relatively easy switch to Gallente. You can use the hybrid skills for rails and blasters, and still have the range with the rails and Caldari ships plus tank and gank with Gallente.
Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:33:00 - [67] You're screwed. Caldari= Suck Online
Transcendant One	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:15:00 - [68] ... you pretty much are.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:40:00 - [69] short/medium range: yes long range: "are we there yet?" - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Tappits Caldari Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:56:00 - [70] Edited by: Tappits on 02/11/2007 07:58:41 Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Jamie Lee But caldari has the best PVE ships and the torpedo change will make raven awesome med/close range ship torp nerf will screw PVE ravens hard. But if you like 300 dps you can always change from torps to cruise missiles. Its only going to take 3 times more time to complete the same missions. But its not like i care about missions, at least finally ravens wont be the kings of pve anymore. To quote some movie: Ravens will be the kings of Jack and **** and Jack has just left the town. only takes me 6mins longer to do 6 rooms in (AE) so its not 3x longer. and you get 500+dps from cruse so this just shows how much you realy know -I suck at pvp but that does not stop me from poping your pod :)
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:43:00 - [71] Originally by: LVirus Huginn <<< 3/3 layout with 40m3 drones . So its not really a missile boat. Also what makes its special is its webrange. Else it would be just another nanovaga. Lachesis <<< again 3/3 with 40m3 drones, so not a pure missile boat. Also its bonuses are what make it special, damp and scram. Typhoon <<< 4/4 with 150m3 drones. So once again a ship that requires ****loads of skills to be fitted to be used at its finest. Curse(4 launcher slots, plenty of setups that can make use of them) <<< sry haven't seen any curses that use missiles instead of neut/nos. Sacrilige <<< as i said, its propably the best missile pvp ship around. Rook <<< Rooks were good before nerf. Atm they are getting a slight boost and might be worth of something after that but still its primary role is not a missile boat. Crow <<< again, as i said that a ship that can fill its role. Drake <<< Whats good about it? Npc killing carebear ship? Not much use in pvp. There are plenty of other ships that id rather see in my gang. What is wrong with missiles as secondary weapon system? Drake is quite similar when compared to other BCs, e.g good tank, good (anti-support) dps, possibility for EW?
Lumberjackhammer Caldari Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:05:00 - [72] Edited by: Lumberjackhammer on 02/11/2007 18:08:21 look, all other races will outdmg you, yes, but caldari is the support class in eve, and CCP should f#####g write that, I choosed to play caldari for one reason, to be support, EW and other types of support,,,,so if u go missiles, prepare to HELP out, not to OWN people. cause thats what caldari are for. Iv played as caldari for almost 3 years now,,,I think,,,and never regret it, I love missiles, I love their ships, but I am also realistic about it. and dont forget that being "good" doesnt always mean dps, missiles are the best weapons if you are using EW or other support, long range, no cap cost, no optimal range etc etc, they make it easier for you to do your job as a caldari pilot.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:06:00 - [73] A lot of nonsense in these threads. My friends in Caldari ships are almost always near the top of the killmails with their Ravens, Drakes, Cerberus's and Nighthawks. Those same ships are always high on my own deathmails. Caldari ships do plenty of damage. In a long range sniper battle, missiles are not good as sniper weapons - they are great against support. Against a Vagabond that can outrun the missile damage, they are not good. But when you have a gang together, a bunch of Caldari ships can be very good indeed. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:26:00 - [74] Missles only suck for fleet work. They typicaly have very high volley damage, allthough it is not true alpha because of flight time. In small gang situations where the fighting is in the close > mid range distances caldari boats are very usefull. Lots of mids for ewar and large volley damage and consistant damage (ie: over range and regardless of transversal). Also in this enviroment missle flight time is not much of a factor, that mega has to mwd to the target, your missles have to fly to the target shrug
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:35:00 - [75] Originally by: MITSUK0 mega has to mwd to the target, your missles have to fly to the target shrug Very good point. One that needs repeating. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!

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