EVE Search - Why Carriers will STILL be Preferred to Jump Freighters.

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Test Server Feedback

Why Carriers will STILL be Preferred to Jump Freighters.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:17:00 - [1] Sometimes I dont think CCP is thinking things through. The most obvious examples of this are the turret bonuses on Covert Ops ships -- as if someone is going to combat fit a Helios. When it comes to tech 2 freighters CCP is poised to make another silly blunder. Instead of making them the preferred method of conveyance and getting carriers back into the combat job as a primary role, the new tech 2 freighters will still leave carriers as the primary logistic means for the following reasons: You still can take assembled ships in a carrier and you cant in a tech 2 frieghter. With rigs getting blown up if you repackage a ship and with rigs becomming more common, people will use the carrier to jump these. Freighters can still only jump 5ly to the carrier's 6. At Jump Drive Calibration 4, that gives the carrier SIGNIFICANT range over the freighter. This means that the carriers will be able to make many trips in 0.0 that will be difficult to make in a freighter. The bonuses on the tech 2 freighters are badly concieved. Minmatar Freighter Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to cargo hold capacity and 5% bonus to maximum velocity per level Jump Freighters Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to hull hit points and 5% reduction in jump fuel need per level Looking at the bonuses I can honestly say that the Jump Freighters bonuses are silly at best. No one in a freighter is going to care about more hull HP. If you are tackled and your excort cant repel the attack, an extra 50% hp is pointless. Furthermore, the speed bonus is a really bad joke. You might get the thing up to, what, 150m/s at max skills? Who cares? Since carriers can tank, fight and jump further than the freighter, why would I use a floating target that cant defend itself. With the 30 second dock bonus on changing session an enemy fleet coupld easily wipe it out before the session timer expires and it can dock. They would just ignore the rest of the fleet and focus on the freighter. How long does it take 20 BS to kill a freighter now? The resistances in the freighters are on their armor and not on their structure where the majority of their HP is located. Therefore, their vulnerability is extremely high. The real changes that need to be made are: Role bonus: Assembled ships take the same amount of space as the unassembled version of the ship. Jump distance needs to be upped to 6ly. At least then they can keep up with the carrier escort. []Minmatar freighter bonus for speed needs to be changed to agility. Everyone in a freighter warps to 0, being able to align faster is much more. []The hull HP bonus for the freighters should be changed to a further cargo capacity bonus or perhaps a compression bonus for minerals. If CCP continues on this route, the jump freighter will still be supplanted by the carrier and nerfing the carrier isnt the answer. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rahnaar Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:35:00 - [2] Originally by: Rells The real changes that need to be made are: [list][*]Role bonus: Assembled ships take the same amount of space as the unassembled version of the ship. While I can see your points on most everything you wrote, and most of it makes sense, the above really does not. Just like a T1 freighter is not meant to transport assembled ships, a T2 freighter should not be able to transport them. A carrier is a carrier for a reason, transporting assembled ships is a carriers role (or one of it's many roles anyway). The notion about rigs has some merit, but it's just as easy to not rig the ship priot to transport, or buy a new one for transport and subsequent rigging. If one can't afford to have a few duplicate setups then one probably shouldn't be playing around in major conflicts anyway. Transporting assembled ships in a freighter is completely unacceptable.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:41:00 - [3] A carrier is different because those ships can be pulled out of the maintenance bay in space and the other ships can refit in the bay in space. In the case of the Jump Freighter, it would be transport from station to station only. Therefore the carrier retains its role and the logistics retain theirs. Also keep in mind that battleships wont fit in a carrier either. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:14:00 - [4] Unless its has changed, Bs's have had their volume while assembled reduced by half. I saw a raven with 485,000 m3, though the apoc was 515,000 m3 and the megathron around 513,000 m3 if i remember. However, bc's have had their volume almost doubled. It could have changed but thats what i saw a few days ago. so a carrier could carry two fitted bs possibly.
Lady Beauvoir Slutty Witches	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:22:00 - [5] Yes, it seems that carriers are the ships that should transport combat-ready ships to 0.0 and jump freighters should transport supplies - at least as far as the current changes on sisi stand. And it's good: different ships, different roles, sounds balanced to me. The only thing I'm hoping to be changed is the possibility to use dreads and rorquals for jump hauling. Remove that and everything's set. "Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaet point." -Blaise Pascal, PensTes, 4, 277
Hyakuchan Earth Federation Space Force	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:36:00 - [6] Edited by: Hyakuchan on 02/11/2007 11:37:47 Originally by: Rells []Since carriers can tank, fight and jump further than the freighter, why would I use a floating target that cant defend itself. Because you can't put ships with cargo into it anymore. Quote:* nerfing the carrier isnt the answer. It is if it forces you to use the alternative.
benze Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:53:00 - [7] with the new freighter, i can take 5 bs repackage, and with the nerf of the old freighter. i wouldn t use jump bridge. So no jump bridge and i will use auto cynosural for the dread. I m waiting for this freighters.
Soratah Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:23:00 - [8] I believe the carrier has had it's ship maintenance bay expanded to 1,000,000m3 on Sisi (can someone check after patch to confirm?) so that's two fitted BS'
Kay Han Caldari Friendship 7 Corporation STYX.	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Soratah I believe the carrier has had it's ship maintenance bay expanded to 1,000,000m3 on Sisi (can someone check after patch to confirm?) so that's two fitted BS' Confirmed Corphangar is still stuck @10k Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
5n4keyes Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:20:00 - [10] Personally i feel they should be given a single slot, but can only fit a capital shield, or armor rep. The Jump freighters skill should add a resistance bonus. Would make them alot more 0.0 useful

Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:53:00 - [11] Well certainly no one is going to use them if they can be popped in the time it takes to wait out the session timer to dock. That is what they will be if their current stats are made final. Sure you can have protection, but I ask, who would YOU primary in that fleet? I dont know aobut you but I would call the freighter primary. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:17:00 - [12] You've forgotten one small point Rells... Carriers and Rorq wont be able to carry haulers with cargo in them anymore. To compensate they get bigger cargo holds. I think last I saw a Rorq could 120k of space with expanders etc. Not to mention the fact you could prob put GSC in them too... Oh and one last thing as long as they are t2 no one will fly them, or at least there will be so few of them it wont matter. Rorqs will be the new haulers of choice if these changes go live, not carriers, and not t2 freighers
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 02/11/2007 09:01:04 Sometimes I dont think CCP is thinking things through. The most obvious examples of this are the turret bonuses on Covert Ops ships -- as if someone is going to combat fit a Helios. snip Come again? (yea, not a helios, but still a cov-ops) Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:21:00 - [14] Edited by: Rells on 03/11/2007 00:21:34 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 02/11/2007 09:01:04 Sometimes I dont think CCP is thinking things through. The most obvious examples of this are the turret bonuses on Covert Ops ships -- as if someone is going to combat fit a Helios. snip Come again? (yea, not a helios, but still a cov-ops) Killmails are easily faked. Even with a full combat load, the crow would have to be dead still and afk for an anethema to kill it. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Soratah I believe the carrier has had it's ship maintenance bay expanded to 1,000,000m3 on Sisi (can someone check after patch to confirm?) so that's two fitted BS' If this is true then it is yet more reason to not use the freighter over the carrier. You get just over 2 times the volume and have no tank, no ability to carry ships without destroying rigs and cant jump as far. The fact that you cannot put loaded haulers in a carrier is more than made up for by the increase in bay size. Before you couldnt even put a single BS in a carrier so in fact their hauling capability has been INCREASED. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:57:00 - [16] I think those jump freighters will still be quite usefull for supplying newly conquered stations or POS warfare or mining ops (combined with a rorqual) or emergency evacs. Unless the price prohibits i will certainly get me one of them and the extra 47d training for freighter V aint really shocking me neither.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.05 05:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Red Harvest I think those jump freighters will still be quite usefull for supplying newly conquered stations or POS warfare or mining ops (combined with a rorqual) or emergency evacs. Unless the price prohibits i will certainly get me one of them and the extra 47d training for freighter V aint really shocking me neither. The jump freighter shouldn't be just a toy for the super alliances. They have enough toys that it is time to focus on the rest of us. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:12:00 - [18] Bonus could a jump range bonus per level. :)
Schneiderr Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.11.05 12:35:00 - [19] i like the reason that carriers can recharge their cap for the next jump a lot fast then jump freighters will ever be able to :)
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2007.11.05 15:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 05/11/2007 05:54:30 Sometimes I dont think CCP is thinking things through. The most obvious examples of this are the turret bonuses on Covert Ops ships -- as if someone is going to combat fit a Helios. When it comes to tech 2 freighters CCP is poised to make another silly blunder. Instead of making them the preferred method of conveyance and getting carriers back into the combat job as a primary role, the new tech 2 freighters will still leave carriers as the primary logistic means for the following reasons: You still can take assembled ships in a carrier and you cant in a tech 2 frieghter. With rigs getting blown up if you repackage a ship and with rigs becomming more common, people will use the carrier to jump these. Freighters can still only jump 5ly to the carrier's 6. At Jump Drive Calibration 4, that gives the carrier SIGNIFICANT range over the freighter. This means that the carriers will be able to make many trips in 0.0 that will be difficult to make in a freighter. The bonuses on the tech 2 freighters are badly concieved. Minmatar Freighter Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to cargo hold capacity and 5% bonus to maximum velocity per level Jump Freighters Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to hull hit points and 5% reduction in jump fuel need per level Looking at the bonuses I can honestly say that the Jump Freighters bonuses are silly at best. No one in a freighter is going to care about more hull HP. If you are tackled and your excort cant repel the attack, an extra 50% hp is pointless. Furthermore, the speed bonus is a really bad joke. You might get the thing up to, what, 150m/s at max skills? Who cares? Since carriers can tank, fight and jump further than the freighter, why would I use a floating target that cant defend itself. With the 30 second dock bonus on changing session an enemy fleet coupld easily wipe it out before the session timer expires and it can dock. They would just ignore the rest of the fleet and focus on the freighter. How long does it take 20 BS to kill a freighter now? The resistances in the freighters are on their armor and not on their structure where the majority of their HP is located. Therefore, their vulnerability is extremely high. The real changes that need to be made are: Role bonus: Assembled ships take the same amount of space as the unassembled version of the ship. Jump distance needs to be upped to 6ly. At least then they can keep up with the carrier escort. Bonus for speed needs to be changed to agility. Everyone in a freighter warps to 0, being able to align faster is much more important than subwarp speed. In fact subwarp speed of a freighter is beyond useless. The hull HP bonus for the freighters should be changed to a 10% additional cargo capacity bonus and a 20% reduction in size of minerals and ice products per level. If CCP continues on this route, the jump freighter will still be supplanted by the carrier and nerfing the carrier isnt the answer. Nerfing the carriers to make them less appealing to use as haulers in 0.0 will just reduce their ability to participate in combat operations. Making the jump freighter more suitable for hauling is a much better idea. Actually,your way off base here. If there is any possible reason to use a carrier over a jump freighter,they will just nerf that too,but thanks for giving the devs a heads up....

Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.05 15:58:00 - [21] I disagree with the OP. Moving ships is not the main use of the Carrier in 0.0 logistics. Moving large quantities of POS fuel is. Since we are getting the Carriers ability to have items inside the ships nerfed, (CCP just wants us to waste time doing Alliance Logistics, its seems) the Jump Freighter will be most welcome. I really don't care about the cost...I'll trade my Carrier and my Dread for one. The only reason you see Carriers, Dreads and now Rorquals hauling stuff is cuz CCP wouldn't give us the Jump Freighter earlier. I agree that the bonuses don't seem to reflect what is important to a Jump Freighter captain. Cargo bonus is nice, but the rest is junk. No one expected a Jump Freighter to jump as far as a Carrier. Shorter jump ranges will make for a slight realignment on the jump route, that's all. Besides, many jump routes were shorter distances anyway because of the Dreads jumping along with Carriers. I don't see any logic in removing the ability to store ships with cargo and the increase in the Ship Maint Bay size. As soon as you can't have cargo in the ships, the Ship Maint Bay will be emptied of Industrials. True, it would be nice to move Battleships. However that ability is nowhere near an equal trade-off for removing the cargo from the ships.
Anderson Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.05 16:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Rells How long does it take 20 BS to kill a freighter now 10 BS . And faster than concord gets there.
Varrakk Chosen Path	Posted - 2007.11.05 17:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Varrakk on 05/11/2007 17:53:34 Why the Carrier nerf fails: Thanatos pre nerf: Occator w/Rigs and Expanders: 35,5k m3 Viator w/Rigs and Expanders: 10k m3 Corp Hangar w/3 GSC: 12700m3 Total capacity: 58200m3 Moros not gonna be nerfed: 7x Cargo Expanders and 3x rigs: 70800m3 22x GSC: +19800m3 Total capacity (w30k fuel) 85800m3 Carrier cargo nerf will have zero effect. Theres no reason for us to train Freighter 5 and buy a ship that got a insane pricetag. Dreadnaughts already outperform Carriers. My test Moros had a shield tank, drones and 2 medium rails w/Siege mode. Capable of hitting Cruisers and up to Battleships (Granted its not aweinspiring tank and firepower, but it beats a Jumpfreighter)
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.11.05 18:11:00 - [24] Nothing beats a jump freighter. Cargo capacity is all that matters.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.11.05 18:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Ruciza Nothing beats a jump freighter. Cargo capacity is all that matters. until you realize they will be half the cost of a mothership and be able to carry less stuff.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.05 20:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 03/11/2007 00:21:34 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 02/11/2007 09:01:04 Sometimes I dont think CCP is thinking things through. The most obvious examples of this are the turret bonuses on Covert Ops ships -- as if someone is going to combat fit a Helios. snip Come again? (yea, not a helios, but still a cov-ops) Killmails are easily faked. Even with a full combat load, the crow would have to be dead still and afk for an anethema to kill it. Its real. You can contact the crow pilot if you want to confirm. As for how....easy...everyone charges at covops to stop them from cloaking/decloak them...and if you have a web, then the crow IS standing still. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Sklaveneinkaeufer	Posted - 2007.11.05 20:52:00 - [27] I am not shure all talk about carriers ect. what is whit the Roqual ? On SiSi 40000m3 and 3 Low Slots and 3 Rig slots. Makes 143263m3 by let say 2,5Bn isk AND the fuel cost per m3 is on the roqual even better, lets say fuel con. on 5 and its silly i know Jumpfreighter 5 makes 0,0044 per m3 Isotops for Jumpfreighter and 0,0034 per m3 for Roqual. And both ships can jump equal far.
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.05 21:18:00 - [28] Can the jumping freighters also use stargates and go into high sec space? If they can, great but they are big targets, they need a lot more survivability. Jumping them to a station and waiting for 20 seconds to dock can also be risky but if there's a trap waiting, there's sure to be signs in local. -Bart
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.11.05 21:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Rells The hull HP bonus for the freighters should be changed to a 10% additional cargo capacity bonus and a 20% reduction in size of minerals and ice products per level. If CCP continues on this route, the jump freighter will still be supplanted by the carrier and nerfing the carrier isnt the answer. Nerfing the carriers to make them less appealing to use as haulers in 0.0 will just reduce their ability to participate in combat operations. Making the jump freighter more suitable for hauling is a much better idea. I strongly agree with you on this. Jump freighters are still less useful than the much cheaper and easily defended Carriers and piling yet another nerf onto Carriers isn't the way to go. Most of your suggestions are good but I don't think a 20% reduction per level would work well as that would be 100% at L5 and being able to transport an infinite amount of minerals -while essentially removing one of the more annoying aspects of the game, 0.0 logistics- seems very unrealistic. Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.05 22:11:00 - [30] Real bonus the jump frieghters are gonna need is 10% reduction in capacitor regeneration per level. They can't fit mods so those of us who live 6 jumps from empire are gonna have to spend the whole evening to move them.



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.