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bellass
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Posted - 2007.11.05 10:53:00 -
[1]
missle ships moving at max velocity, with mwd on, and just spew out missles hitting for max dmg. all other weapons need to have some type of tracking mod (except drones), but your guns still have a heavy penalty if your own ship is moving. not so with missles, they can go as fast as they want and still hit with full dmg. when will this get fixed?
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Chancer
Minmatar
Blueprint Haus
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.05 10:55:00 -
[2]
Unlikely ever since its not a bug.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.11.05 10:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Frug on 05/11/2007 10:55:47
As soon as my missile ship can outrun your projectiles
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:01:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: bellass
missle ships moving at max velocity, with mwd on, and just spew out missles hitting for max dmg. all other weapons need to have some type of tracking mod (except drones), but your guns still have a heavy penalty if your own ship is moving. not so with missles, they can go as fast as they want and still hit with full dmg. when will this get fixed?
Is that 'Bellass' anything to do with "Dumbell"?
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
bellass
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Frug
Edited by: Frug on 05/11/2007 10:55:47
As soon as my missile ship can outrun your projectiles
that's only a few extreme cases with huge amounts of isk invested. any small missle boat can run far beyond a turret's tracking and range, including web and doesn't need to worry about being hit.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:10:00 -
[6]
well you kind of forget if it is the other way around missiles will not even be able to hit the target to do the calculation about if it will give dmg.
(drones need a change, missiles need a change, but missiles need a boost drones a nerf
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:13:00 -
[7]
I find arties to stay at range and a couple of T2 rocket launchers firing defenders in 'staggered' mode works well in extreme cases. Raw speed is good too. Or warping in and out before they hit. 
Doesn't work too good in a bubble though as my Sabre found out when I mistook a Cerb for a Caracal. 
In short it's working as intended.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: bellass
that's only a few extreme cases with huge amounts of isk invested. any small missle boat can run far beyond a turret's tracking and range, including web and doesn't need to worry about being hit.
pvp more and then come back to this issue.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
bellass
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Buyerr
well you kind of forget if it is the other way around missiles will not even be able to hit the target to do the calculation about if it will give dmg.
(drones need a change, missiles need a change, but missiles need a boost drones a nerf
i think again you are talking about the targets ship velocity. not all ships can move at 5-6 k m/s, most are still around 2.5 k m/s (for frigs and cruisers), and need to be fit for even that. so missles will still hit with dmg while a turret will not ... missle dmg is only dependent on targets velocity, not the ship firing them.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: bellass
that's only a few extreme cases with huge amounts of isk invested. any small missle boat can run far beyond a turret's tracking and range, including web and doesn't need to worry about being hit.
pvp more and then come back to this issue.
You cannot outrun precision heavy/cruise missiles unless you have a snake set, so yes, its extremely rare.
Now the missile will do like 5 damage, but they will still hit.
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bellass
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: bellass
that's only a few extreme cases with huge amounts of isk invested. any small missle boat can run far beyond a turret's tracking and range, including web and doesn't need to worry about being hit.
pvp more and then come back to this issue.
You cannot outrun precision heavy/cruise missiles unless you have a snake set, so yes, its extremely rare.
Now the missile will do like 5 damage, but they will still hit.
i'm not trying to post another nerf thread, sorry if it came off that. i'm just really curious, for avg skills and investment how do turret counter missile boats? you hit for no dmg while they still can. yes they have less dmg than they could but they still do hit. you might be able to run, but that's not fun. i don't think that turrets should kill everybody, but against missile pilots with decent skills there is little chance to take them using turrets. imho, help me with some tactics then.
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Mooogie
PSI-5 Trade and Logistics
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:47:00 -
[12]
hey while you're at it, fix the turret tracking bug.
i cant hit those pesky interceptors with my 'scout' volkswagen launcher worth a crap.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.11.05 11:53:00 -
[13]
It works both ways though, while missile users can orbit a slower target at high speed and hit with no problem they are screwed when it comes to trying to damage a fast moving target no matter how they adjust their transversal.
In it's currently state missiles and turrets are actually fairly well balanced, it's just they both require different approaches to combat in order to be used effectively.
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Khes
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Posted - 2007.11.05 12:21:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Khes on 05/11/2007 12:22:23
Yes, lets make missiles work exactly like turrets. And then make all turrets have the same trackingspeed and then take away drones ability to fly around and attach them to the ships hull.....like turrets. And the make smart-bombs work like turrets aswell, because it isnt fair if they work in any other way...like turrets. And when we are at it, make all ships have the same attributes and number of slots. It isnt fair otherwise. Ther should only be one kind of ship and one kind of weapon and one kind of ammo, anything else is unfair.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 12:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: bellass
i'm not trying to post another nerf thread, sorry if it came off that. i'm just really curious, for avg skills and investment how do turret counter missile boats? you hit for no dmg while they still can. yes they have less dmg than they could but they still do hit. you might be able to run, but that's not fun. i don't think that turrets should kill everybody, but against missile pilots with decent skills there is little chance to take them using turrets. imho, help me with some tactics then.
Well there's one issue with this. Most good missile boats are Caldari. Caldari ships are slow and heavy. Therefore, it is difficult for them to achieve these sorts of speeds. The only real exception to this rule is the Crow, which is an interceptor and therefore designed to go real fast.
Just MWD in a line, that should reduce transversal (assuming your guns have enough range). Also, know that turret ships can get more speed than missile boats no problem.
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.11.05 12:26:00 -
[16]
Missiles have even worser "tracking" than guns.
While guns chance to hit is nerfed by traversal velocity, missiles damage is nerfed by velocity. If your traget close in with heigh speed straigt away you can hit them well with guns, but not with missiles, cause for missiles it do not matter wich path the target flys.
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Mystic Pete
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Posted - 2007.11.05 12:27:00 -
[17]
This sounds like you don't like missiles.
When you mention a tracking mod are you talking about a weapon upgrade such as a ballistic control? If so I would endorse a module, either mid or low, that increases missile velocity and / or flight time. The extra velocity would enable missile ships to actually hit fast targets.
Originally by: bellass
missile ships moving at max velocity, with mwd on, and just spew out missiles hitting for max dmg.
Fly missile ship sometime. You don't ever hit for max damage unless your shooting at structure without damage control on a ship the size of a small moon.
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Raife Zetter
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Posted - 2007.11.05 12:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: bellass
Originally by: Buyerr
well you kind of forget if it is the other way around missiles will not even be able to hit the target to do the calculation about if it will give dmg.
(drones need a change, missiles need a change, but missiles need a boost drones a nerf
i think again you are talking about the targets ship velocity. not all ships can move at 5-6 k m/s, most are still around 2.5 k m/s (for frigs and cruisers), and need to be fit for even that. so missles will still hit with dmg while a turret will not ... missle dmg is only dependent on targets velocity, not the ship firing them.
missile damage is dependent on more than target velocity. There is also explosion radius of the missile, and size of the target to take into account.
specific missiles are much more efficient if used against the right target; it's not as simple as fit missiles=win
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Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.05 12:37:00 -
[19]
"they can go as fast as they want and still hit with full dmg"
Yeah, those 0.5 hp strikes really add up after a few hours.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Exlegion
Caldari
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.05 13:07:00 -
[20]
I'm all for tracking on missiles as long as missiles also get:
Wrecking hits (as well as misses)
Instantaneous hits
Faster missile boats similar to gunship speeds and agility
Low mods that improve missile tracking and explosion radius, similar to tracking computers.
And since missiles would also be affected by tracking disrupters as well as defender missiles, I'd like to see a "defender-type" gun created to knock out gun shots from gun boats.
Fair enough?
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Foppemoa
Caldari
Royal Swedish Capsulers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 13:30:00 -
[21]
Anyone else noticed different damage with missiles at different distances? If i lob a cruise missile at someone at max range, it does a fair bit of damage. But the damage seems to be higher when they are at around ~40km even though the enemy moves at a constant speed straight at me all the way. and then the damage becomes lower when the ship is closer.
--------------------------------------------
Originally by: GLaDOS
"But there is no sense crying over every mistake
You just keep on trying until you run out of cake"
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Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.05 13:46:00 -
[22]
At the moment there is just one bad point (from my view) about the missing tracking at missiles: Amarr-EW-Bonus is useless against them :(.
what about a new Bonus to TDs? "additional decreasing explosion velocity of missiles" (or relativ speed to target?)
equals what TDs do against missiles but anything would be better like nothing where it is at the moment just to get the Amarr-bonus where the other bonis are: usefull against all oponents
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.05 13:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mystic Pete
This sounds like you don't like missiles.
When you mention a tracking mod are you talking about a weapon upgrade such as a ballistic control? If so I would endorse a module, either mid or low, that increases missile velocity and / or flight time. The extra velocity would enable missile ships to actually hit fast targets.
Originally by: bellass
missile ships moving at max velocity, with mwd on, and just spew out missiles hitting for max dmg.
Fly missile ship sometime. You don't ever hit for max damage unless your shooting at structure without damage control on a ship the size of a small moon.
It's called a target painter.
Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction." |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.11.05 13:59:00 -
[24]
Well in my scenario, my StrawMan launcher fires arguements at your slow ship but your web sped up my missile and the transversal explosion velocity made me hit you for 0.5 damage instead of the 299.2 it said on my ammo.
Then when my ship slowed down and I decreased my ROF even further, I started hitting your StrawMan argument for 112.3
Then you warped away.
In short. Not all weapons win every time.
--
Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
bellass
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Posted - 2007.11.05 14:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Exlegion
I'm all for tracking on missiles as long as missiles also get:
Wrecking hits (as well as misses) alpha is chanced based and nerfed
Instantaneous hits fair enough, disadvantage
Faster missile boats similar to gunship speeds and agility again, dmg is inversly proportional to velocity
Low mods that improve missile tracking and explosion radius, similar to tracking computers. tc are mid slots and then no tackle. enhancers, waste of slot ... 1.07 improvement ... great. nobody uses them
And since missiles would also be affected by tracking disrupters as well as defender missiles, I'd like to see a "defender-type" gun created to knock out gun shots from gun boats. defenders, with all the problems? and caldari excel at ewar as well ... especially since the new buff.
Fair enough?
above
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