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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.11.08 18:45:00 -
[31]
I thought there was a dev blog a while back where they said that Covert Ops cloaks would remain unchanged but that non-covert ships (like cloaking BS) would be probable.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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Iva Soreass
FireStar Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.08 18:50:00 -
[32]
I saw some one post something before, was something like "make non cov ops//recon ships use some sorta fuel to use cloaks" that would put a huge dent in ravens and such.
[20:03:51] Ciprian > no pls i have snakes www.firestar-online.com |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:06:00 -
[33]
Sheesh. I leave the forums for about 6 months and when I come back it's like they were frozen in time.
This has been done to death. A cloak is its own counter. Look at the stats again. If you are worried that the cloaked ratting Raven might actually be hunting you, then fear not. In return for fitting the cloak he has to wait around 20 seconds after decloaking before he can turn any of his modules on and he gets a 40% scan resolution penalty, meaning you will have locked him LONG before he locks you.
No, offlining the cloak does no avoid the 40% scan resolution penalty. And if he does that, he's no longer cloaked anyway, is he?
Seriously, there are a lot more things worthy of your attention than this. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
queen1121
Empire Dreams
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:45:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Grey Area Sheesh. I leave the forums for about 6 months and when I come back it's like they were frozen in time.
This has been done to death. A cloak is its own counter. Look at the stats again. If you are worried that the cloaked ratting Raven might actually be hunting you, then fear not. In return for fitting the cloak he has to wait around 20 seconds after decloaking before he can turn any of his modules on and he gets a 40% scan resolution penalty, meaning you will have locked him LONG before he locks you.
No, offlining the cloak does no avoid the 40% scan resolution penalty. And if he does that, he's no longer cloaked anyway, is he?
Seriously, there are a lot more things worthy of your attention than this.
How about a gang of sabre(with cloak, but can drop bubble instantly), 2-3 recons and 2-3 cloaking ravens with damps.
How do you fight that?
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Iva Soreass I saw some one post something before, was something like "make non cov ops//recon ships use some sorta fuel to use cloaks" that would put a huge dent in ravens and such.
I think it was my idea(or at least posted on eve o by me) but devs don't listen to me since I'm bob ...
And poster above kinda touched core of cloak problem. It's not the isk farmers only, but it's like ... on gang ships bigger than frigs :/
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.09 01:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ione Hunt or receive an extremely strong drawback for fitting a cloak...such as disabling all highslot modules if the cloak is fitted. This would still allow for travel setups, which is fine imo...but will not allow you to fight and hide AT THE SAME TIME in ships that weren't designed for it.
You CANT use your high slots anyway when you are cloaked and you CANT fight and hide. If you are in a non covert ops ship if you decloak you have a massive delay in pvp terms before you can fire.
Cloaking is already nerfed enough.
www.eve-players.com |
Keith Olbermann
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Posted - 2007.11.09 01:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Arcord
Originally by: ViolenTUK Cloaked ships wont be able to be probed out in Trinity CCP arent stupid enough to do somthing like that. A counter to cloaking is very different to nerfing cloaking. If you could probe out cloaked ships then they wouldnt actualy be cloaked. Cloaks are nerfed enough anyway and they dont need a nerf.
Cloaking is fine as it is.
well, apparently you dont have to deal with macro ratters in your region...
no, they take isk from them and let them live there.
thus supporting selling isk
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Xzar Fyrarr
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Posted - 2007.11.09 02:50:00 -
[38]
cloaking is absolutely fine imo. They cloak? ho hum onboard scanner , there ship dont show up they are cloaked? WAPOW, we now know they are cloaked somewhere in local. How to find them? Thats for you to find out. How to counter cloakers? Skills, sensor boosters do the trick am I right? Catching cloakers? Hard, yes it is. Impossible absolutely not. Catching Cloaking ratting ravens? Impossible... nope... Hard... yup... Why nerf something that truly in all do respects doesn't need nerfing?
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.09 07:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: Ione Hunt or receive an extremely strong drawback for fitting a cloak...such as disabling all highslot modules if the cloak is fitted. This would still allow for travel setups, which is fine imo...but will not allow you to fight and hide AT THE SAME TIME in ships that weren't designed for it.
You CANT use your high slots anyway when you are cloaked and you CANT fight and hide. If you are in a non covert ops ship if you decloak you have a massive delay in pvp terms before you can fire.
Cloaking is already nerfed enough.
Not at all. You can fit a sensor booster and you're pretty even with improved cloak. It's not about hiding, it's about no delay after jumping, no delay when you're decloaked...
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hellsknights
Hells Angels Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.09 07:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kiviar
Originally by: Delnas
Not auto-disconnecting if you don't do anything for 30 minutes.
I have to agree. Auto logging off after some time of inactivity would solve a the problem of people just sitting in system cloaked all day afk. It would also have the added benefit of clearing up juta a bunch. Other than that, Cloaking is fine as it is.
How would this solve cloaking in system?????? Make a SS, warp to it cloak up, double click in a random direction.......Im not being inactive, right?
So local enemies disrupting 0.0 alliances is good and it won't change, viva el cloaked red guy.
recruitment thread Join channel Hells Angels Inc
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Ryan Darkwolf
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.11.09 08:19:00 -
[41]
Cloaking needs no nerf...
Apart from lowering you sig res and making it extremely difficult to move when cloaked..cloaked ships also get the recalibration error thing after being uncloacked..meaning you have anywhere from 5 to 7 secs to get out or 5 to 7 secs to lock onto the cloaked ship and warp scram and web the bastard..(assuming you proximity decloacked him/her.)
STOP WITH THE NERF WHINES PPL...THE GAME WAS FINE HOW IT WAS A YEAR AGO UNTIL YOU ALL CAME IN COMPLAINING
(That last but was not directed at the OP as the OP wasn't whining about anything) -------------------
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Argh, my brain. Buying keyboards should be like buying cigarettes, over 18 with photo ID.
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Zendoc
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.09 09:13:00 -
[42]
Cloaking does need a counter, and flying within 2km of a ship to decloak it is a terrible counter for anything with the exception of cloaking battleships, which are really not the problem with cloaking.
The problem with cloaking as I see it, are gangs of force recons that can come into an alliance's home system, and just sit in the asteroid belts for days on end picking off anyone who tries to mine or rat without it being a fleet operation.
I mean seriously, how do you counter a cloaked rapier/arazu backed up by a cloaked eos? The answer is you don't. They can sit in your system indeffiantely, for months at a time, picking off your ratters completely risk free.
I would like to see a counter for cloaking in systems where your alliance has sovereignty, perhaps some kind of POS radar that allows you to probe out cloakers or see them on scanner.
Ganking people in belts is fine as is ganking people at gates, but sitting in someone's "home system" for 3 months making it an inhospitable place for them to fly at any given time, is not cool and it needs a counter.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.09 10:40:00 -
[43]
Originally by: LUKEC
Not at all. You can fit a sensor booster and you're pretty even with improved cloak. It's not about hiding, it's about no delay after jumping, no delay when you're decloaked...
No doesnt work like that. You have a delay before you can operate your targeting systems after you decloak and your sensor booster wont help you.
www.eve-players.com |
LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.09 10:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: LUKEC
Not at all. You can fit a sensor booster and you're pretty even with improved cloak. It's not about hiding, it's about no delay after jumping, no delay when you're decloaked...
No doesnt work like that. You have a delay before you can operate your targeting systems after you decloak and your sensor booster wont help you.
I know perfectly well how cloaks work, thank you. And only idiots would sit cloaked on the gate waiting for something, it doesn't work like this. It's like you sit on gate aligned to safe, shoot something, if something too big you warp out and cloak. Penalty don't do fck all. It's getting like ... nanocloaks-online tbh. Cloak on every ship pretty much(hi rzr).
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Markus Aurelian
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Zendoc Edited by: Zendoc on 09/11/2007 09:18:45 Cloaking does need a counter, and flying within 2km of a ship to decloak it is a terrible counter for anything with the exception of cloaking battleships, which are really not the problem with cloaking.
The problem with cloaking as I see it, are gangs of force recons that can come into an alliance's home system, and just sit in the asteroid belts for days on end picking off anyone who tries to mine or rat without it being a fleet operation.
I mean seriously, how do you counter a cloaked rapier/arazu backed up by a cloaked eos? The answer is you don't. They can sit in your system indeffiantely, for months at a time, picking off your ratters completely risk free.
I would like to see a counter for cloaking in systems where your alliance has sovereignty, perhaps some kind of POS radar that allows you to probe out cloakers or see them on scanner.
Ganking people in belts is fine as is ganking people at gates, but sitting in someone's "home system" for 3 months making it an inhospitable place for them to fly at any given time, is not cool and it needs a counter.
I haven't seen cheese this bad since npc 1000000-hit combos in Killer Instinct.
its called denial-of-territory. you make a place inhospitable for an alliance, they either have to outsmart you (bait ships ftw?) or leave. if you cant evict a gang of cruisers from your home system then maybe you dont deserve it. Meatwad FTW |
Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:12:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Markus Aurelian if you cant evict a gang of cruisers from your home system then maybe you dont deserve it.
QFT
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Ally Poo
Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:18:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ally Poo on 09/11/2007 11:20:17
Originally by: Bolt Zapper
Originally by: ViolenTUK Cloaked ships wont be able to be probed out in Trinity CCP arent stupid enough to do somthing like that. A counter to cloaking is very different to nerfing cloaking. If you could probe out cloaked ships then they wouldnt actualy be cloaked. Cloaks are nerfed enough anyway and they dont need a nerf.
Cloaking is fine as it is.
QFT. Try getting past a determined 0.0 gatecamp in a Blockade Runner, a cloak won't save you in 99.5% of situations. As for being scanned/probed while cloaked, that would totally undermine the whole cloaking concept.
Cloaks are fine, they don't need buffing and they certainly don't need nerfing.
Agreed
EDIT: oh btw, if your having problems, get a smartbomb and goto planet 1 or the local star. ============================================ Sleep is for the Dead. |
Satura
Caldari Mucho Dolor The Insomniacs
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:23:00 -
[48]
Quote: Catching cloakers? Hard, yes it is. Impossible absolutely not. Catching Cloaking ratting ravens? Impossible... nope... Hard... yup... Why nerf something that truly in all do respects doesn't need nerfing?
Can't catch a decent BS pilot with a cloak. You just can't. A raven can stay aligned at all times, see local grow...=> warp => cloak. A cloak on a ratting battleship has almost NO drawback. Fit a sensor booster II and the locking time is okish. And most battleships have "free" high slots anyway, due to split weapon system. If the guy doesn't have a POS, and wouldn't have a cloak, only than he would be hard to catch. With a cloak it is impossible if he knows when to run. People fit cloaks on their ratting battleships because they are lazy (miself included), and don't want to just make safespots, warp between them, delete them, make other safespots, and so on. Is also pretty impossible to catch someone who does that too, that's why i wouldn't mind if cloaks get nerfed on non specialized ships. I'd make them use a lot more cpu, so no more room for pew pew weapons and stuff. |
Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: LUKEC
Not at all. You can fit a sensor booster and you're pretty even with improved cloak. It's not about hiding, it's about no delay after jumping, no delay when you're decloaked...
No doesnt work like that. You have a delay before you can operate your targeting systems after you decloak and your sensor booster wont help you.
There are special ships that are geared towards fighting with cloaks, those are just fine as they are now. But all the other ships should NOT be allowed to fit a cloak AND fight in any way. If you fit a cloak on a non-recon/bomber/covops/blackops you want to hide, not fight...ergo you shouldn't be allowed to fit turrets/missiles/drones when fitting a cloak.
The decloaking penalty is not enough of a penalty on non-cloak-specced ships becaus if you are in a cloaking raven for example, you can just sit 100km+ off a gate cloaked, and you will still lock the enemy long before he gets in range to hurt/scramble you.
I think the only people arguing against an increased cloak penalty for non-cloak-spec ships are those who don't want to lose their unkillable zero-risk ratting ravens. And no, the whole "but without cloak they'd just ss anyway" isn't a valid exuse because then I can at least probe that ship. _______________
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Markus Aurelian
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:31:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Markus Aurelian on 09/11/2007 11:36:51 seriously, its not like youre getting wtfpwnt by a cloak raven. if you are, then you seriously need to pack your stuff up and go back to empire. and if its YOUR HOME SYSTEM, and YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF SECURING IT, then you need to GTFO because you DONT DESERVE YOUR SPACE. if you want easy ganks, get a mom and sit in lowsec before trinity goes live. get a tissue and deal with it. its an internet starsystem, if you cant get someone to leave your virtual treehouse, too bad. Meatwad FTW |
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Malvahne
Sativah Holandica
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Malvahne on 09/11/2007 11:36:02 Edited by: Malvahne on 09/11/2007 11:35:35 Jesus **** what a whining bunch of people there are. Nerf this, nerf that.
This is the one part of mmo's I have always disliked. The amount of whining babies becous they may not be able to kill a serten player (OH NOESSS). All of you need to realice one thing tho ones the developers start nerfing something the people who are affected by said nerf will start to whine about something els to nerf becous well **** they got nerfed so so should you.
But to be hounest looking at this forum these days and the amount of random changes/nerfs ccp is implenting its already to late.
Congratulations in making EvE your typical MMO where things you fly/use will 'change' every 3/4 odd months.
******* tards.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:38:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Satura
Quote: Catching cloakers? Hard, yes it is. Impossible absolutely not. Catching Cloaking ratting ravens? Impossible... nope... Hard... yup... Why nerf something that truly in all do respects doesn't need nerfing?
Can't catch a decent BS pilot with a cloak. You just can't. A raven can stay aligned at all times, see local grow...=> warp => cloak. A cloak on a ratting battleship has almost NO drawback. Fit a sensor booster II and the locking time is okish. And most battleships have "free" high slots anyway, due to split weapon system. If the guy doesn't have a POS, and wouldn't have a cloak, only than he would be hard to catch. With a cloak it is impossible if he knows when to run. People fit cloaks on their ratting battleships because they are lazy (miself included), and don't want to just make safespots, warp between them, delete them, make other safespots, and so on. Is also pretty impossible to catch someone who does that too, that's why i wouldn't mind if cloaks get nerfed on non specialized ships. I'd make them use a lot more cpu, so no more room for pew pew weapons and stuff.
It's always impossible to catch a pilot who knows what he is doing and watches local, with or without a cloak. Cloak just means he can go afk while he waits for you to leave and still instantly see if you're there or not when he comes back.
The problem is local, not cloaks.
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Zendoc
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:46:00 -
[53]
man you guys have some anger issues.
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Malvahne
Sativah Holandica
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:48:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Zendoc man you guys have some anger issues.
I get like that after a while reading nothing but nerf this, change that, boost me, ballance you.
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Zendoc
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.09 11:50:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Zendoc on 09/11/2007 11:54:45 Edited by: Zendoc on 09/11/2007 11:53:06 There are plenty of cheesie tactics in eve, everyone knows that. Cloaking is deffinately one of them. It takes absolutely no talent to sit cloaked in an asteroid belt picking off miners for easy ganks.
The problem is, when people use it for cheese, it needs a counter. Cheese with no counter is not fun. :(
Also, changing local chat will just make the game even MORE slow paced than it is already. You would have have to scan/probe every system you enter looking for targets. The only thing that makes small scale pvp bearable right now is jumping in to a system, seeing some people in local, and hoping you have some targets to fight, even if you do have to probe/scan them out.
The problem is cloaks, not local. i mean its a completely free directional, 3 dimensional map with almost infinate space to move around in, the chance of stumbling upon someone who is cloaked is nearly 0. Especially if they are constantly moving.
Maybe have there be a mod that decloaks people in a radius from a ship, similar to a smartbomb. That way you can still get the jump on people if you are crafty, but also you can't just take advantage of having infinate space to gank people in.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.09 12:41:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Zendoc Edited by: Zendoc on 09/11/2007 11:54:45 Edited by: Zendoc on 09/11/2007 11:53:06 There are plenty of cheesie tactics in eve, everyone knows that. Cloaking is deffinately one of them. It takes absolutely no talent to sit cloaked in an asteroid belt picking off miners for easy ganks.
You can't catch someone doing that in your space, you don't deserve to be in 0.0.
Quote: The problem is, when people use it for cheese, it needs a counter. Cheese with no counter is not fun. :
More cheesy than using local as a recon tool?
Quote: Also, changing local chat will just make the game even MORE slow paced than it is already. You would have have to scan/probe every system you enter looking for targets. The only thing that makes small scale pvp bearable right now is jumping in to a system, seeing some people in local, and hoping you have some targets to fight, even if you do have to probe/scan them out.
You will never, ever catch a pilot who is paying attention to local, knows what he is doing, and doesn't want to be caught by scanning or probing. If nothing else he'll just warp to a safe and log off.
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Peace Cot
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Posted - 2007.11.09 12:43:00 -
[57]
Ok how about this as a plausable solution (note: covert ops/recons/ covert battleships should be unaffected)
You cant activate a cloak on a non-covertops ship within range of a scan probe based on these criteria.
20 AU range or less cant cloak a BS or larger 15 AU or less cant cloak a BC 10 AU or less cant cloak a Cruiser/Hauler 5 AU or less cant cloak a frigate
eg: You are unable to activate "Improved Cloaking device II", because your battleship is within 20 AU of an active scan probe.
If the cloak is already active before the scan probe is dropped then you are safe and stay cloaked.
This means at least 4 things:
A) If you jump into a system and somone trys to safespot and cloak you have a chance to catch them outright by bringing a probing ship if they stay in the same safespot and cant cloak.
B) They get a warning that they are being probed allowing them time to either warp to a new safespot, align for a dock or whatever they feel is needed to escape being probed.
C) They have a perfectly good and fair chance of evading you, but you also have a tangeble chance of catching them. Lets face it even without a cloak its not hard to safspot bounce and not get caught anyway. But it means they cant just ss cloak go afk.
D) If they uncloak (say to gank someone), you can force them to stay uncloaked.
Note: of course if they happen to be farming in a large system you have less chance of getting a covert ops ship in a position to drop a probe that covers the safespot they use with the correct range probe. Which involves either having a good amount of book marks and a rough idea of where thier safspot might be or pure dumb luck
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.09 12:54:00 -
[58]
Originally by: slothe you need to be able to probe them tbh. it should be a specialised ship with specialised skills.
This
Cloaking should have a counter of some kind - some way to find them if you are determined. I can't really say how that will be - but - I agree with slothe that it should be a specialized ship with a specilized set of skills and a mod to boot. ----
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mii'yoggi
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Posted - 2007.11.09 12:56:00 -
[59]
WILL IT EVER END
#NERF WHINGE POWER CCP#
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.11.09 13:31:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 09/11/2007 13:35:49
Originally by: Arcord well, apparently you dont have to deal with macro ratters in your region...
How would a "macro" know exactly when to cloak? a Macro just repeats a series of instructions repeatedly.
Originally by: Zendoc The problem with cloaking as I see it, are gangs of force recons that can come into an alliance's home system, and just sit in the asteroid belts for days on end picking off anyone who tries to mine or rat without it being a fleet operation.
This is a fairly standard and useful tactic in war, its known as a "logistical Interdiction" they prevent the ratting and accumulation of funds and resources thus weakening their enemy.
Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
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