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Sgt Napalm Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.07 15:40:00 - [1] Have I missed anything concerning this? Has their been any news/stuff on SiSi to counter cloaking? There was the rumor of being able to probe them out for Trinity. Disclaimer: This thread is about a counter to cloaking, not if it is right or not
Delnas White-Noise Skunk-Works	Posted - 2007.11.07 19:31:00 - [2] Originally by: Sgt Napalm Have I missed anything concerning this? Has their been any news/stuff on SiSi to counter cloaking? There was the rumor of being able to probe them out for Trinity. Disclaimer: This thread is about a counter to cloaking, not if it is right or not Not that I've seen. And, that disclaimer... nobody is going to read it. Besides, this is the perfect place to mention the true problem with cloaking; Not auto-disconnecting if you don't do anything for 30 minutes. **** White-Noise Nuff said.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.07 19:39:00 - [3] Cloaked ships wont be able to be probed out in Trinity CCP arent stupid enough to do somthing like that. A counter to cloaking is very different to nerfing cloaking. If you could probe out cloaked ships then they wouldnt actualy be cloaked. Cloaks are nerfed enough anyway and they dont need a nerf. Cloaking is fine as it is. www.eve-players.com
Bolt Zapper Gallente Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:03:00 - [4] Originally by: ViolenTUK Cloaked ships wont be able to be probed out in Trinity CCP arent stupid enough to do somthing like that. A counter to cloaking is very different to nerfing cloaking. If you could probe out cloaked ships then they wouldnt actualy be cloaked. Cloaks are nerfed enough anyway and they dont need a nerf. Cloaking is fine as it is. QFT. Try getting past a determined 0.0 gatecamp in a Blockade Runner, a cloak won't save you in 99.5% of situations. As for being scanned/probed while cloaked, that would totally undermine the whole cloaking concept. Cloaks are fine, they don't need buffing and they certainly don't need nerfing.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Delnas Originally by: Sgt Napalm Have I missed anything concerning this? Has their been any news/stuff on SiSi to counter cloaking? There was the rumor of being able to probe them out for Trinity. Disclaimer: This thread is about a counter to cloaking, not if it is right or not Not that I've seen. And, that disclaimer... nobody is going to read it. I did, after you mentioned it .. thought it was part of siggie so ignored it... ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie! For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus
Arcord	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:07:00 - [6] Originally by: ViolenTUK Cloaked ships wont be able to be probed out in Trinity CCP arent stupid enough to do somthing like that. A counter to cloaking is very different to nerfing cloaking. If you could probe out cloaked ships then they wouldnt actualy be cloaked. Cloaks are nerfed enough anyway and they dont need a nerf. Cloaking is fine as it is. well, apparently you dont have to deal with macro ratters in your region...
Meditril	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:44:00 - [7] The counter to cloak is named local. All cloaked ships are shown in local isn't that enough counter for you?
Sgt Napalm Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 04:15:00 - [8] Wait till you all try dealing with cloaked ratting ravens, yes they need a boost hard.
Delnas White-Noise Skunk-Works	Posted - 2007.11.08 04:50:00 - [9] Cloaked ratting Ravens infest my part of space hard. I hunt them constantly, and rarely manage to kill them as they warp as soon as I come in local. I still don't think Cloakers should be able to be probed. **** White-Noise Nuff said.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.08 04:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Delnas Cloaked ratting Ravens infest my part of space hard. I hunt them constantly, and rarely manage to kill them as they warp as soon as I come in local. I still don't think Cloakers should be able to be probed. Exacty. The problem is local, not cloaking. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Kiviar Caldari Vice-Presidential Action Rangers	Posted - 2007.11.08 05:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Delnas Not auto-disconnecting if you don't do anything for 30 minutes. I have to agree. Auto logging off after some time of inactivity would solve a the problem of people just sitting in system cloaked all day afk. It would also have the added benefit of clearing up juta a bunch. Other than that, Cloaking is fine as it is. --- Forums are what?
Riho Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.08 07:45:00 - [12] as others have said.... problem isnt cloaking... its local chat. ppl should only appear in this chat when they have spoken... kinda like alliance chat
Dahin Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.11.08 08:30:00 - [13] Why on earth would a cloaker have a problem with getting probed? Oh... you mean those people that want an "can't touch this" button? Yeh, those would have a problem I guess. I have never begged CCP to nerf me as much as I do with cloaks. They boost the probes that needed no boost and won't nerf cloaks that need a nerf. I got an idea: DO NOT GIVE ME 100 BIL OVEUR
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.08 08:42:00 - [14] you need to be able to probe them tbh. it should be a specialised ship with specialised skills.
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:15:00 - [15] Originally by: ViolenTUK Cloaked ships wont be able to be probed out in Trinity CCP arent stupid enough to do somthing like that. A counter to cloaking is very different to nerfing cloaking. If you could probe out cloaked ships then they wouldnt actualy be cloaked. Cloaks are nerfed enough anyway and they dont need a nerf. Cloaking is fine as it is. If you have to say its 'fine as it is' then it most probably isnt because if it was fine ud not even need to say, CCP doesnt give into whinging CCP know what needs nerfing and boosting. I think the ability to ping would be a nice addition. [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Si'dun Took	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:35:00 - [16] Local chat and cloaking are fine. Cloaking is WAY easy to uncloak by proximity and you cant even cloak once someone has STARTED to target you, even before the lock is secured. This basically just makes cloaking useful in asteroid belts and etc. people should be able to know whether there MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be someone cloaked. to say that people shouldnt know if someone is in system is lame. If they do that then they shouldnt make it so warp bubbles stop you midwarp before you reach a stargate. Its the same principle of knowing weather there might be a risk or not. Otherwise people can just do system scans anyway and that would just waste everyones time and have the same affect.
Sola Sun Jita Trade Services	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:35:00 - [17] Leave "full-function" cloaking to specialized ships: recon and covops. Abusing it on battleships for "no risk - big reward" ISK farming or "playing alone and 99% getting away" is over top.
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:58:00 - [18] In my opinion there shouldn't be a counter to cloaking specialized ships like covops, recons, bombers, and blackops. Those ships use cloaking as their main "weapon", they trade in firepower and tank for the ability to cloak. So there's nothing to "fix"! However, all non-cloaking-specialized ships like cloaking Ravens (I mean...WTF???) should either be probable, or receive an extremely strong drawback for fitting a cloak...such as disabling all highslot modules if the cloak is fitted. This would still allow for travel setups, which is fine imo...but will not allow you to fight and hide AT THE SAME TIME in ships that weren't designed for it. _______________
Catelco Segunda Fundacion O X I D E	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:18:00 - [19] Just make cloak use cap (it seems logic to use cap on modules that need activation after all). Give bonus to naturally born cloaking ships to cap usage so they can permacloak, while regular ships consume their cap after a while. This way non specialized ships can stay cloacked for a short time, but enough time to go out of troubles. You can always uncrease your cap and stay cloaked longer, at the cost of gimping your fitting. Or just make the covert-op cloack II 100% invisible and the other ones probeables with a specific probe that takes some time to fully scan. Whatever, I think there are plenty of solutions that will help specialized ships to stay as they are now and to nerf ISK-cloaked farmers
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Catelco Just make cloak use cap (it seems logic to use cap on modules that need activation after all). Give bonus to naturally born cloaking ships to cap usage so they can permacloak, while regular ships consume their cap after a while. This way non specialized ships can stay cloacked for a short time, but enough time to go out of troubles. You can always uncrease your cap and stay cloaked longer, at the cost of gimping your fitting. Or just make the covert-op cloack II 100% invisible and the other ones probeables with a specific probe that takes some time to fully scan. Whatever, I think there are plenty of solutions that will help specialized ships to stay as they are now and to nerf ISK-cloaked farmers This. And make cloaks disable shield recharge when active. It won't hurt covop cloakers as they avoid getting shot at at all cost and will nerf the ratting ravens a bit :-) Aggro timer on non-covop cloaks maybe ? So when you engage a non-covop cloak, you cannot log off instantly. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
D CENT	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:11:00 - [21] If they nerf the cloak then the covert ops ships become useless and omg what a waste of design time!
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:28:00 - [22] Edited by: arbalesttom on 08/11/2007 11:28:55 So just because you have to deal with macro ratters you want to nerf cloaking? Cloaking is fine right now, it has serious drawbacks and it can help save your ass if needed. Besides that, it would been rediculous if you could probe a cloaker, because the whole point of cloaking to stay unseen for the enemy. This really reminds me of the wcs whines you see once in a while..... Edit: Back to your caves! * * ** *** Phear my sig!
Alty McAltypants	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:33:00 - [23] Move local chat to constellation chat.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:33:00 - [24] Edited by: Hannobaal on 08/11/2007 11:36:44 There is already a counter to cloaked ships. You get within 2km and they decloak. A cloaked ship sitting in a safespot somewhere in a system is no threat to anyone and doesn't need a counter. As for ratting Ravens with cloaks. What's the problem? Disclaimer: I haven't been ratting anywhere for months, I don't plan on ever doing it again (I get ISK from my industrial alt and ratting is boring), and when I used to do it I was in DMC and did it in the very center of our space with no risks whatsoever. With that out of the way... First of all, the Ravens are no problem. They are no threat to anyone, and they don't compete for resources considering the battleship rats they kill are plentiful and replenish constantly. As for ISK selling, it's the sellers and the buyers that are the real problem, not the farmers. Take those two out and there'd be no farmers. The farmers are just doing what we players do. Secondly, take out the cloaks and the Raven warps to a safe spot and logs off. Same thing, except for the minor inconvenience of him now having to log on and off to check if you're still there. You still can't touch him. Take out the ability to simply log off and he just warps between safe spots and random points in the system. Now he's inconvenienced by having to sit at the computer (but will know when you leave), but you still can't catch him. Finally, for the people who say only certain ships should be able to fit cloaks, you're wrong. Only certain ships are meant to fit a cov ops cloaks. That's why they have insanely high cpu requirements and the ships meant to use them get a fitting bonus. If CCP meant for only certain ships to be able to use the other cloaks, they would have done the same for them. If a ship can fit an improved cloak with ease, then there is no problem with it fitting a cloak. As it is, they are already heavily penalized when they use one. What needs fixing is local chat, so only people who speak in the local channel show up. That would solve all probkems that people associate with cloaking: Ratting Ravens can be caught, no 0.0 carebears can be terrorized by afk cloakers, and cloaked ships get to actually be truly sneaky and invisible just like they are supposed to be.
Alty McAltypants	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Hannobaal What needs fixing is local chat, so only people who speak in the local channel show up. That would solve all probkems that people associate with cloaking: Ratting Ravens can be caught, no 0.0 carebears can be terrorized by afk cloakers, and cloaked ships get to actually be truly sneaky and invisible just like they are supposed to be. no because no 1 will speak and be invis hence move local to constellation
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:39:00 - [26] Edited by: Hannobaal on 08/11/2007 11:40:27 Originally by: Alty McAltypants no because no 1 will speak and be invis hence move local to constellation Same exact thing. In either case you won't know who is in the system, or if there is anyone there at all. That's the point. The only difference is that with your way, an afk cloaker can still scare people from mining or ratting. And now he can do it for an entire constellation at a time.
Alty McAltypants	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 08/11/2007 11:40:27 Originally by: Alty McAltypants no because no 1 will speak and be invis hence move local to constellation Same exact thing. In either case you won't know who is in the system, or if there is anyone there at all. That's the point. The only difference is that with your way, an afk cloaker can still scare people from mining or ratting. And now he can do it for an entire constellation at a time. logic failure mefinks, perhaps move local to regional chat and when hostile enter region everyone logoff, lulz there are places people know other people are when they enter a system: belt, planet, station, moon. replace local with constellation and now you have number of systems in constellation x belts, planets, station, moons - more places to look, more places to hide...people will get lazy or more paranoid but then thats down to player.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:03:00 - [28] Nerfing cloaking will do absolutely nothing to solve the rat-farmer problem. Instead of cloaking, they will simply log off. The problem is and has always been with local. For as long as local is used as an instant intelligence tool, people who want to avoid encounters will find a way to do so. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:58:00 - [29] Originally by: Alty McAltypants Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 08/11/2007 11:40:27 Originally by: Alty McAltypants no because no 1 will speak and be invis hence move local to constellation Same exact thing. In either case you won't know who is in the system, or if there is anyone there at all. That's the point. The only difference is that with your way, an afk cloaker can still scare people from mining or ratting. And now he can do it for an entire constellation at a time. logic failure mefinks, perhaps move local to regional chat and when hostile enter region everyone logoff, lulz there are places people know other people are when they enter a system: belt, planet, station, moon. replace local with constellation and now you have number of systems in constellation x belts, planets, station, moons - more places to look, more places to hide...people will get lazy or more paranoid but then thats down to player. Make it so that people only show up in local when they write something in the channel, and you have all of Eve x belts, planets, station, moons. If you think about it, I think you'll see how it makes it both a lot more difficult and a lot easier for everyone. It will be balanced and without the problems we have with it right now.
queen1121 Empire Dreams	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 08/11/2007 11:40:27 Originally by: Alty McAltypants no because no 1 will speak and be invis hence move local to constellation Same exact thing. In either case you won't know who is in the system, or if there is anyone there at all. That's the point. The only difference is that with your way, an afk cloaker can still scare people from mining or ratting. And now he can do it for an entire constellation at a time. And there's nothing miner/npcer can do, especially if it's one of those login few alts pvper after something's scrambled

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