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Boomhaur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:10:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Boomhaur
Sorry but that is a tank isn't that practical. I doubt you are capable running BOTH invulnerability shields at the same time, but as I recall when I use to use 4 SPR's it kills the cap recharge to the point where it was useless. And even if you were somehow able to use such things, a ship can easily neutralize your cap, and your now sitting there with little resists compared to before. Which means you will die a LOT quicker than before.
And as a useless side note the DPS of Drakes are that of a wet paper towel which makes up for their good tanking ability.
Actually, what makes it unpractical is that you don't have a warp disruptor. Read the thread I linked.
Now, you can run the 2 invulns for 20 minutes - and I assure you that I've PVP'd with 4 SPR II's and a warp disruptor, web, and Invuln II... and been extremely successful.
Liang
Either your really lucky or I got back luck. Every PVPer I seem to encouter packs a neutralizer (or nos back in the day), and wouldve killed its cap a lot sooner.
*goes to read thread, since it came after he hit the reply and went afk*
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:17:00 -
[32]
77/4 kill ratio says it wasn't luck. ;-)
Liang
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Boomhaur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:18:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Boomhaur on 10/11/2007 09:18:45
Originally by: Liang Nuren
77/4 kill ratio says it wasn't luck. ;-)
Liang
Guess I have bad luck than, just like in life, but on the bright side if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all lol.
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Incantare
Caldari
Kernel of War
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Zendoc
I don't know about that... ham IIs and good missile skills does some halfway decent dps.
Not with no BCUs they don't. Not that you can fit a rack of HAM IIs and a full thirteen slot passive tank either due to grid requirements.
Originally by: Zendoc
So wait, maybe I'm misunderstanding Liang's post, but if the numbers she is presenting are accurrate that would mean, there is no minmatar ship, sleipnir included, that could solo a drake with any ammo type. The max dps a sleipnir can put out according to quick fit, at perfect gun and drone skills, is 730 with hail ammo, at perfect firing conditions.
That can't be accurrate.
Gank Phoon with Mjol and PP.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Incantare
Gank Phoon with Mjol and PP.
Gank AC Mael would break it pretty quick... but one thing to note is that battleship sized weapons have "high" DPS, and "high" alpha strike. The higher alpha strike provided by battleship weapons may be enough to break the "tangential" DPS tankable value even if it doesn't actually break the actual number in DPS.
Liang
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:31:00 -
[36]
There is no reason to nerf the Drake. Only a Fulltank Drake i able to tank so much Damage. At Fulltank it does only Girliedamage(210DPS on Kin with T2 launchers, T1 Missiles and maxed Skills), it can't be equipped wit ABs, MWDs, Webber, Scrambler, EW. It`s like a So there is no problem with the Balancing cause it is no Ubar-Ship. If you equip it for normal PvP, with Webber/Scrambler the Tank isn't stronger than the Tank of other Ships.
The Problem isn`t the Drake. The Problem is that the passive Shield Tanking Modules don't have a Stacking Penalties. There are enough Ships that can fit also an Ubar-Passive Tank(nearly all CS, Myrmidon, Cyclone even a Domi). If you cry for a nerf then cry for a Nerf of the Modules. Stacking Penalties, higher Grid-Requirements for X-tenders or other Drawbacks will work better, than only nerf 1 Ship.
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Incantare
Caldari
Kernel of War
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Incantare
Gank Phoon with Mjol and PP.
Gank AC Mael would break it pretty quick... but one thing to note is that battleship sized weapons have "high" DPS, and "high" alpha strike. The higher alpha strike provided by battleship weapons may be enough to break the "tangential" DPS tankable value even if it doesn't actually break the actual number in DPS.
Liang
Yes I wasn't sure on that one so I had to check. Same for the Tempest.
The ability to break a passive tank with alpha strike really becomes noticeable in groups when the passive tank is kept near peak by incoming dps and then brought bellow by volley damage rather than allowed to recharge between volleys.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gul Rashen
The Problem isn`t the Drake. The Problem is that the passive Shield Tanking Modules don't have a Stacking Penalties. There are enough Ships that can fit also an Ubar-Passive Tank(nearly all CS, Myrmidon, Cyclone even a Domi). If you cry for a nerf then cry for a Nerf of the Modules. Stacking Penalties, higher Grid-Requirements for X-tenders or other Drawbacks will work better, than only nerf 1 Ship.
Read the thread I linked to, I went further with your reasoning. Nerfing the modules themselves would completely eliminate passive shield tanking from PVP.
Liang
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:45:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 10/11/2007 09:47:51
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Nerfing the modules themselves would completely eliminate passive shield tanking from PVP.
Liang
I've read it, but putting a good Stacking Penalty, with slightly raised Stats on the SPR and CDFP will work in my Eyes. If its done correctly a Tank with 3SPRs and 2 meds for EW will be still good enough, evtl. better for PvP, but equipping more Mods won't give an Ubartank.
But IG i don't see really Problems with the Tank or the Drake, so there is no really reason for a nerf, except the Whining-Threads .
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Inflexible
Rytiri Lva
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Deathnail
Really, especially with nerfing to the Myrm, drake is rediculous.
Looks like Caldari are getting all the love they need - why not at least make the drake a little easier to kill without 3 people?
Heh, did you know myrmi has comparable passive shield tank? 
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Dzajic
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.10 10:08:00 -
[41]
Of course, that Myrm that cant tackle or move is such a threat. Remember, no matter what, if you fight a drone boat you should try to keep your range at under 5km, preferably 2km.  
Yeez. Drake can sit, tank, and do meager DPS. Myrm will have theoretical high DPS, but you can dictate range. Stay on the edge of his ACs falloff, be at range and pop his drones. He cant tackle you, and he cant move, and has a signature of a whale. PvP Myrm with passive shield tank is...
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Inflexible
Rytiri Lva
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Posted - 2007.11.10 10:15:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dzajic
PvP Myrm with passive shield tank is...
Well drake isn't paticularly great too... Main difference between myrm and drake is fact myrm can be fitted in much better.
Fit myrmi with passive shield tank, drone augumentor and some rails and enjoy caldari-like PvP. 
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 10:32:00 -
[43]
A passive-regen Drake is utterly useless in pvp and is no threat to anyone.
Quote:
And as a useless side note the DPS of Drakes are that of a wet paper towel which makes up for their good tanking ability.
Ha, yeah, right. Fool. Try fitting a Drake properly and you'll be quite impressed. 580 DPS with realistic skills isn't too shabby. 674 DPS with max skills and 3% implants.
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Zendoc
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.10 10:43:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Zendoc on 10/11/2007 10:44:31
I was going to say, the one I fought in my vagabond was tearing me up until i hit the MWD, but at that point even though I was doing far more dps than he was, it wasn't anywhere near adequate to break his tank.
*edit* Tearing me up is probably a bit overplayed, but still it was doing decent damage, it would have won the fight had i not speed tanked it.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.11.10 10:59:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 10/11/2007 11:04:57
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 10/11/2007 11:00:57
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 10/11/2007 10:59:56
Originally by: Gypsio III
Ha, yeah, right. Fool. Try fitting a Drake properly and you'll be quite impressed. 580 DPS with realistic skills isn't too shabby. 674 DPS with max skills and 3% implants.
But we are talking about a passive, fulltanked Drake. Even with Factionlauncher and Factionmissiles and all 5% Damage-and ROF-Imps the DPS is about 270 on Kin.
And 674DPS on a Drake? Lol, show me that Fitting.
With 4 CN-BCS, 7 CN-Launchers and CN-Scourge 8 have about 510 RAW-DPS, and my Missileskills are maxed and i have the 5% Imps in.
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Castra Noor
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Ha, yeah, right. Fool. Try fitting a Drake properly and you'll be quite impressed. 580 DPS with realistic skills isn't too shabby. 674 DPS with max skills and 3% implants.
You lie. There is no way to hav 674 dps with a drake, not even close to it, get a clue.
@op: You are a complete ******. Even after the "nerf" the myrmidon has a better tank AND more firepower AND spare medslots for mwd/sensorbooster/web/scram. Asking to nerf the drain is just plain stupid, ugly amarr face.
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:05:00 -
[47]
Quote:
we are talking about a passive, fulltanked Drake, who is the Fool?
You. For talking about passive fulltanked Drakes and pvp.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gypsio III
You. For talking about passive fulltanked Drakes and pvp.
Hrhrhr, Kiddie
This Thread is about the Ubar-tank not about fittings for max-Damage. Read it, learn and be quite. And read my posts i have not wrote, that a fulltank/passive is good in PvP.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Castra Noor
There is no way to hav 674 dps with a drake, not even close to it, get a clue.
CN Terror in T2 HAMLs + T2 Hobgoblins + 4 BCU-II + 5% RoF implant + maxskills
probably not quite 674 DPS but definetely above 650.
_
New character creation guide | [CNVTF] corp recruiting | Stacknerfs explained |
VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:11:00 -
[50]
Drakes are easy to kill, bring more DPS.
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Gethinlane
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:19:00 -
[51]
Actually a drake can produce 750 dps, if you really set it up properly.
These figures are from EFT with no implants, just all skills to level 5:
7 x Heavy assault launchers with terror rage
4 x Caldrari Navy Ballistic control systems
1 x bay loading accelerator II
with 5 hobgoblin II
And i'm not lying, go try it for your selves
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VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gethinlane
Actually a drake can produce 750 dps, if you really set it up properly.
These figures are from EFT with no implants, just all skills to level 5:
7 x Heavy assault launchers with terror rage
4 x Caldrari Navy Ballistic control systems
1 x bay loading accelerator II
with 5 hobgoblin II
And i'm not lying, go try it for your selves
Stacking.
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Wikka
Sub-Genius inc
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:25:00 -
[53]
The drake does tank well but does have some major failings
1) its speed - by god is it slow compared to other bc's
2) to tank you have to use your mids no option of armour tanking or effective tackling
3) Its only viable weapon setup are missiles - which are slow and avoidable.
4) DPS the drake can't dish as much as other bc's unless it uses kinetic misssiles and the opponents don't tank for it.
Don't cry nerf just to cover over your own inadequecies,
and i don't fly a drake so i'm not biased enough to be concerned about a nerf.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Stacking.
Yes, that's WITH proper stack-nerfing.
But you missed three essential things.
One, he's using 4x CN-BCS (expensive as hell) not 4x BCS-IIs, since he has no chance of fiting it CPU-wise with T2s and having any tank to speak of.
Two, he's using Terror Rage missiles, which kind of suck by default (not only do they have crappier range, but also worse sig/expvelo... and nerf your cap recharge to barely above half of normal, and you NEED a propulsion mod, preferably a MWD with that range).
Three, that the rest of the fit is kind of... nowhere. It won't be feasable to use anytwhere except maybe a little fun on SiSi, and that's "it" (assuming you could get the fit together).
_
New character creation guide | [CNVTF] corp recruiting | Stacknerfs explained |
Dragon Lord
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.10 12:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Deathnail
Really, especially with nerfing to the Myrm, drake is rediculous.
Looks like Caldari are getting all the love they need - why not at least make the drake a little easier to kill without 3 people?
you do realise that the Myrm can still out tank a drake using a passive shield tank, not only that, it can still outgank it as well even with the drone badwidth nerf.
Hence the myrm got nerfed, anyway the drake got nerfed a few patches ago with the increase to recharge time on its shields. Anyway when you dedicate all ur rig slots, low slots and mid slots to tank you should be a dam hard nut to *****.
Now if the drake to web scram and pwn ur ass while doing this, then yes its overpowered.
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Raxlar Kalimar
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Posted - 2007.11.10 12:11:00 -
[56]
In PvP the Drake is a crappy ship if you tank it. It slows the gang down it has rubbish dps and it dose not contribute anything else either. The mrym got nerfed due to it being able to passive tank and have silly damage at the same time the drake cant do this.
In 1v1 against my corp mates Drake it is nearly impossible to break his tank but he sure as hell can't touch mine with his tiny DPS (Although I was in a Claymore)however as soon as he drops one mid for a scram or a web or anything that is not sheild related I can break it (Remember that the Claymore has the same DPS as a Cyclone about 400)and even though I am scramed I am far faster because the drake is such a fat ship that I could always disengage if I chose to do so.
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Lin Lo
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Posted - 2007.11.10 14:14:00 -
[57]
Drake has crap damage dealing ability with a decent tank, as it should be. A Myrm post-nerf can still out-tank and out-dps a Drake.
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ASF Muskels
Slackers Undercover
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Posted - 2007.11.10 18:03:00 -
[58]
Edited by: ASF Muskels on 10/11/2007 18:03:36
I think it's fairly well balanced. It has a good tank if setup to tank, and it has decent damage (by Caldari Standards) if setup for tank/damage. It is NOT a damage dealer and never will be, but when have the Caldari really ever been damage dealers. Every race has different roles they fit into. The drake has allowed many newer players to run higher level missions without having maxed out missile/shield skills. It's not overpowered, it just fills its role very well :).
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BuckStrider
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 18:14:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kadoes Khan
Drakes tank to powerful? Support the idea to change it's bonuses to 5% launcher RoF and +5% heavy and HA missile damage! :p
They call those 'Nighthawks'
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Solid Trust
Minmatar
Haven Front
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Posted - 2007.11.10 18:30:00 -
[60]
the drake does not need a nerf. what it has going for it is offset by its failings (which is a lot). we should be banning together to stop the constant nerf. if they did not implement one nerf people would still enjoy the game. and people will continue to whine about ships no matter how many nerfs you add or don't add.
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