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Mourn Navarre
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:26:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Liang Nuren
But if you're complaining because you can't "go back and change your SP", I'm sure you could trade your character for one more to your liking (even if it has a few million less SP).
Liang
Already did, kinda. That is how I got this one.:) No more battleships for me, thank god. And it wasn't so much that I wanted to change my SP. I wanted to actually get rid of alot by deleting the skills related to ships/weapons/modules I didn't like (I could fly and use just about everything short of T2 barges) and stopped using shortly after training them so I could see what they were like (yes, that included capital ships that no one in the alliance wanted to train for). Eventually the SP adds up though. And yeah, I tried petitioning it while also not expecting much. Good thing I didn't expect it because it didn't happen. I still got a couple of months to go on this character before I get him to the point I'd like to get him too. It is not so easy finding a character with a sensible name and just the right combination of skills without too much useless stuff I am not interested in having. This character has interceptors 5 which I have never really liked since they came out but the rest of the skills are good.
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:37:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 13/11/2007 23:37:17
Originally by: FamersUsedTo BeatUs
ccp is making the game about staying and fighting, not speeding around the whole of EVE cherry picking the fights you get into. I think that is the style of PVP that is needed. This is the reason why interdictors are getting nerfed, why heavy interdictors are being introduced and why vaga will be nerfed soon. Get used to actually having to stay and fight and not just speed off when the odds are not in your immediate favor. 
All I hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE 
WORD
The run a around thing imo is inty territory .. vagas have allways annoyed me more or less even tho I can fly it. The covardly users of those ships is what annoys most.
Now taking those hyenas apart requires only a caracal , cerb, or stealth bomber etc to make it dissapear. So I dont really see them that big of a threat. Id see them biggest threath to a inty rather than other ships. Besides the gangs were never ment to be just BS or just umm carriers :)
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:41:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Semkhet
Well, the funny thing is looking at the Hyena, you can see that it's a prime candidate to get nanoed, since the mass and speed matches a raptor with a 400mm crystalline carb plate minus 24 m/sec.
It has the MWD cap penalty reduction bonus, and 4 mids. Webs use around 1 cap/sec. So it's not like the Hyena will struggle with cap to permarun the MWD and the web(s).
By slapping 2x polycarbs, a Gistii-A MWD, 2 OD and 1 istab it will fly over 7 Km/sec without speed implants. Any LG snake set will push it around 11 Km/sec.
Now, coupled with a Sentinel which can also be nanoed, this combo will do wonders in nanogangs since it's much more cheap & mobile than a curse/huginn, can better speed tank, has better locking speed and will present a lethal threat to conventional tanked ships which will not be able to MWD back to the gate when webbed, tracking disrupted and neuted.
Therefore the antinano whining crowd could well face a painful aweakening 
I know. As an Amarr only pilot nano-ships and gangs make me sad already. The new EAS don't bring any new versatility to counter such gangs to Amarr pilots. And, as you pointed out, it will only make things worse for Amarr pilots....
Like the fact you dont train any other ship than amarr should chainge it for the rest of us by some how. How absurd.
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Mourn Navarre
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:48:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Semkhet
As you wish:
- The only way to permarun the MWD and the disruptor is to fit a large battery T2 and a power relay. This hampers the shield and speed. Hence most nanovagas field instead 2xLSE, and speed + damage mods in the lows. However this obliges the pilot to pulse the MWD due to missing cap recharge rate.
- The typical engagement range corresponds the end of the falloff range of 220mm Vulcan AC using barrage, around 20 Km. Hence the dps is quite low.
- Each time the pilot wants to shot, it has to slow down or he wont hit anything because first the speed is too high for its gun to track, and second the only way to maintain distance is to use the extended falloff of barrage ammo what further reduces gun tracking by a 25% T2 ammo penalty. In turn, by slowing down, the vaga becomes more vulnerable.
- Remember that the orbit set depends of the speed ? Each time the pilot pulses the MWD, he also modifies its effective orbit range. You could visualize this like an orbit drawing a sinusoidal line around the target. Now when you fight at the limit of your falloff, a sinusoidal engagement range isn't the best way to score good hits.
- All this micromanagement does not exempt the vaga pilot to pay a lot of attention to its immediate surroundings because like any nanoship, a navigation error like a bump against a gate, a roid or whatever can be lethal.
- Lag also is a generic threat for any nanoship. In a conventional tanked ship, you usually don't even notice a lag event of let's say, one second. For nanohacs, 1 second lag may mean missing your mark from 6 to 9 Km, and ending either in web range, or bumping something, etc...
Okay, so now how does that make this different from other nanohacs?
Let me clarify my line of thinking by saying when I think of nanohacs, I think of them vs each other, not against a generic target. The only one I can see not having the worst problem of the gun tracking is the Ishtar but heavy drones are so damn slow, I can't see it taking on a reasonably good vagabond pilot and winning. Caldari suffer from the fact their ships are so damn heavy that nanoing feels like a waste of time. Drones and missiles can't catch a nanoship at full burn (or even half burn at the speeds they can pull) and guns can't hit from either side at the same speed. My feeling is two nanohacs fighting each other would have to get into web range to beat each other. The ishtar might be able to come out ahead right now due to the sheer ownage of heavy drones, but depending on what its drone bandwidth is going to be, that may not be the case after the patch.
My old alliance flew lots of these becausethey actually had the T2 BPO off the lottery when it came out and I haven't heard of one person having any kind of cap problems and only getting killed by oversized blobs, especially ones lately involving a huginn or rapier. In a smallish sized trap, they'd always nuke the webber so they could get escape. If I recall right, a typical setup would consist of 220mm II in hi. Usually the last empty slot has an assault or standard launcher. Then a MWD, warp disruptor, and 2 LSEIIs in med. I can't quite remember all the los but it consisted of at least one or two power cap relays and maybe a damage control II but I think some people dropped the DCU II in favor of more speed mods. I forget the rigs being used now but I think it was two of the rigs that modified projectile falloff so they could keep well out of web range. They stayed ahead of drones by using the MWD in bursts to keep ahead. Light drones don't pose much of a threat and some people used their 5 light drones to chew through enemy drones if they were so inclined. No one really went all out with a gisti MWD and snake implants. Being able to produce the ships in the alliance and get them at far lower than market cost made it cheaper to buy so not as expensive to lose if things went sour.
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Praxis1452
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Posted - 2007.11.14 04:35:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Glarion Garnier
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 13/11/2007 23:37:17
Originally by: FamersUsedTo BeatUs
ccp is making the game about staying and fighting, not speeding around the whole of EVE cherry picking the fights you get into. I think that is the style of PVP that is needed. This is the reason why interdictors are getting nerfed, why heavy interdictors are being introduced and why vaga will be nerfed soon. Get used to actually having to stay and fight and not just speed off when the odds are not in your immediate favor.
All I hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE
WORD
The run a around thing imo is inty territory .. vagas have allways annoyed me more or less even tho I can fly it. The covardly users of those ships is what annoys most.
Now taking those hyenas apart requires only a caracal , cerb, or stealth bomber etc to make it dissapear. So I dont really see them that big of a threat. Id see them biggest threath to a inty rather than other ships. Besides the gangs were never ment to be just BS or just umm carriers :)
This will only create more blobbing. Now the only way you can assure victory is by superior numbers.
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DARKKK
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Posted - 2007.11.14 07:24:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Praxis1452
Originally by: Glarion Garnier
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 13/11/2007 23:37:17
Originally by: FamersUsedTo BeatUs
ccp is making the game about staying and fighting, not speeding around the whole of EVE cherry picking the fights you get into. I think that is the style of PVP that is needed. This is the reason why interdictors are getting nerfed, why heavy interdictors are being introduced and why vaga will be nerfed soon. Get used to actually having to stay and fight and not just speed off when the odds are not in your immediate favor.
All I hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE
WORD
The run a around thing imo is inty territory .. vagas have allways annoyed me more or less even tho I can fly it. The covardly users of those ships is what annoys most.
Now taking those hyenas apart requires only a caracal , cerb, or stealth bomber etc to make it dissapear. So I dont really see them that big of a threat. Id see them biggest threath to a inty rather than other ships. Besides the gangs were never ment to be just BS or just umm carriers :)
This will only create more blobbing. Now the only way you can assure victory is by superior numbers.
And perhaps after realizing that blobbing is boring and no longer neccessary, maybe blobbing will diminish a bit.
But when you go somewhere with 5 ppl, you can be certain somehow magic 30 will apear to gank you. Go with 30 and nobody will fight you 
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Easla
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Posted - 2007.11.14 09:48:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Easla on 14/11/2007 09:54:03
Originally by: Glarion Garnier
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 13/11/2007 23:37:17
Originally by: FamersUsedTo BeatUs
ccp is making the game about staying and fighting, not speeding around the whole of EVE cherry picking the fights you get into. I think that is the style of PVP that is needed. This is the reason why interdictors are getting nerfed, why heavy interdictors are being introduced and why vaga will be nerfed soon. Get used to actually having to stay and fight and not just speed off when the odds are not in your immediate favor.
All I hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE
WORD
The run a around thing imo is inty territory .. vagas have allways annoyed me more or less even tho I can fly it. The covardly users of those ships is what annoys most.
Now taking those hyenas apart requires only a caracal , cerb, or stealth bomber etc to make it dissapear. So I dont really see them that big of a threat. Id see them biggest threath to a inty rather than other ships. Besides the gangs were never ment to be just BS or just umm carriers :)
Guess what jerk.
Some people solo pvp in other ships than the vagabond. It doesn't matter what you are. Vagabond. Plated cruiser. Command ship. Or maybe you're just flying around in a hauler with the dividends of all your hard carebearing (seems more likely from your post). Jump in to a gatecamp and you can no longer burn out of it, or run back to the gate because the hyena will lock you in a milisecond and double web you. Much like if you get webbed by a sb-boosted huginn your inertia will take you nowhere if you get webbed so quick. Interceptors will be extremely lucky to make it back to gates.
Webs are already a fairly poor and in some respects inbalanced mechanic. Their (CCP) endless striving to increase the potential to web other ships, as well as their endless introduction of yet more area effect warp disruption abilities (dictors, now t2 cruiser dictors, t2 large bubbles) more and more make the possibility of escaping gate camps and therefore going solo or small gang harder and harder.
So the solution invariably is instead of speed to bring firepower. Which means you have to be certain you are bringing at least as much firepower as anything you'll meet, since without speed you're committed to fighting when you run into an enemy gang.
Which means of course bigger numbers. Bring bigger numbers.
This all in a game where CCP is already struggling greatly under the lag generated by game mechanics that encourage people to come together in vast blob fleets to achieve anything useful.
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Escobar Noreaga
Amarr
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.14 11:49:00 -
[68]
while most of what is said here is mere speculation until it goes live on tranq, i really can envision a very small roaming gang of nano fitted eam ships.
4x 1 of each race could potentially be a very very lethal combo.
but like most patches, ill wait patiently till it goes live and they become more available on the market.
.
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Dingus Rx
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.14 16:16:00 -
[69]
Originally by: FamersUsedTo BeatUs
ccp is making the game about staying and fighting, not speeding around the whole of EVE cherry picking the fights you get into. I think that is the style of PVP that is needed. This is the reason why interdictors are getting nerfed, why heavy interdictors are being introduced and why vaga will be nerfed soon. Get used to actually having to stay and fight and not just speed off when the odds are not in your immediate favor.
All I hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE
Dawg, you so speak the truth. All we see of the nano'd red Vagas that come through our area is them ganking peeps to dumb to read the intel channels. They get a gank in the belts, blow through a bubble camp (most of the time)and run off to another area to repeat. Even with huggins we only catch maybe one out of five. I find it annoying and bit cowardly. All hail the Heyna.
Dingus Out
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Corphus
The NewOrder
BORG Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.14 16:39:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Corphus on 14/11/2007 16:40:53
Edited by: Corphus on 14/11/2007 16:39:29
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Corphus
Edited by: Corphus on 12/11/2007 22:20:09
imo its too much if a eas has :
af like resilence.
intie like speed and agility.
recon ew capability.
bs like sensor strenght.
and af like targeting resolution and range.
you forgot the bit where they have 50%+ more mass than the inties (kitsune has 1.6mkg mass)
grim as much as i respect ur opinion.
the hyena has only 375000kg more than the crow while still having a 391m/s base speed. u can make it run around 7km/s without much investment.
imo its counterproductive to introduce a ship which promotes nanoing even more while at the same time being superior to any other ship.
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MassonA
Caldari
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.14 16:58:00 -
[71]
are we forgetting that its a frig and assuming electronic ship skill 4, 18k webs
easy for almost any nanoship to kill
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.14 18:21:00 -
[72]
Edited by: madaluap on 14/11/2007 18:22:30
Originally by: Dingus Rx
Originally by: FamersUsedTo BeatUs
ccp is making the game about staying and fighting, not speeding around the whole of EVE cherry picking the fights you get into. I think that is the style of PVP that is needed. This is the reason why interdictors are getting nerfed, why heavy interdictors are being introduced and why vaga will be nerfed soon. Get used to actually having to stay and fight and not just speed off when the odds are not in your immediate favor.
All I hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE
Dawg, you so speak the truth. All we see of the nano'd red Vagas that come through our area is them ganking peeps to dumb to read the intel channels. They get a gank in the belts, blow through a bubble camp (most of the time)and run off to another area to repeat. Even with huggins we only catch maybe one out of five. I find it annoying and bit cowardly. All hail the Heyna.
Dingus Out
Yeh your such a coward to fight big blobs with hit and run styles and risk 3.5-5 bil isk in setups/pods when just using 3-5 ships. Not to mention the ammount of RL skills it takes to manage 2* ammount of targets and the risks of webbifier ships.
Its a ******* thrill till the end your 250-500 mil ships breaks and the 1.1 bil pod goes POP, just cause you fought outnumbered and your skills + pimpgear couldnt keep up.
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