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Easla	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:21:00 - [1] Last nail in the coffin of 0.0 solo pvp. Thanks CCP for another well thought out idea.
08891	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:23:00 - [2] ...
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:25:00 - [3] Edited by: Naviset on 12/11/2007 18:26:17 Originally by: Easla Last nail in the coffin of 0.0 solo pvp. Thanks CCP for another well thought out idea. AKA (hopefully) less expensive counter to the nanos that doesnt instapop to vagabonds when they try to web them. Also, I always thought it was annoying that you needed essentially the same training time in the same race of ships and the same skills to stop a vaga. No other ship in the game takes specifically its own race to kill. I think quite a few people will train for the Hyena because its a short train, and then some of the problems with nanos will subside some. Solo pvp still works as well as it always would have..Your friend is (as always) surprise via speed not omgimuntacklablehahaha via speed.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:48:00 - [4] That is true for gellente and minmatar,most closerange ships will not be able to mwd into range with a hyena in the opposing gang.... But it doesnt affect amarr! dances
Easla	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:51:00 - [5] Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Easla Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance. A lot of time coming through gates you're going to be over 20kms from the gate whenever you appear on the otherside, giving nanoships a chance to MWD out of the bubble. Also, inertia will get nanoships back to the gate in most cases. Nonnano stuff is screwed, but they were always screwed.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Easla Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance. A lot of time coming through gates you're going to be over 20kms from the gate whenever you appear on the otherside, giving nanoships a chance to MWD out of the bubble. Also, inertia will get nanoships back to the gate in most cases. Nonnano stuff is screwed, but they were always screwed. Its not just the nano ship but also closerange brawlers...Because if they cannot get within range they are useless.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:00:00 - [8] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Easla Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance. A lot of time coming through gates you're going to be over 20kms from the gate whenever you appear on the otherside, giving nanoships a chance to MWD out of the bubble. Also, inertia will get nanoships back to the gate in most cases. Nonnano stuff is screwed, but they were always screwed. Its not just the nano ship but also closerange brawlers...Because if they cannot get within range they are useless. And... they weren't screwed already how?
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Easla Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance. A lot of time coming through gates you're going to be over 20kms from the gate whenever you appear on the otherside, giving nanoships a chance to MWD out of the bubble. Also, inertia will get nanoships back to the gate in most cases. Nonnano stuff is screwed, but they were always screwed. Its not just the nano ship but also closerange brawlers...Because if they cannot get within range they are useless. And... they weren't screwed already how? They could mwd to the gate or possibly rip apart the enemy gang,whereas now they cannot even get within range for their turrets.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:03:00 - [10] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Easla Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance. A lot of time coming through gates you're going to be over 20kms from the gate whenever you appear on the otherside, giving nanoships a chance to MWD out of the bubble. Also, inertia will get nanoships back to the gate in most cases. Nonnano stuff is screwed, but they were always screwed. Its not just the nano ship but also closerange brawlers...Because if they cannot get within range they are useless. And... they weren't screwed already how? They could mwd to the gate or possibly rip apart the enemy gang,whereas now they cannot even get within range for their turrets. they can still run for the gate. --- planetary interaction idea!
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Naviset on 12/11/2007 19:08:35 Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Easla Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance. A lot of time coming through gates you're going to be over 20kms from the gate whenever you appear on the otherside, giving nanoships a chance to MWD out of the bubble. Also, inertia will get nanoships back to the gate in most cases. Nonnano stuff is screwed, but they were always screwed. Its not just the nano ship but also closerange brawlers...Because if they cannot get within range they are useless. And... they weren't screwed already how? They could mwd to the gate or possibly rip apart the enemy gang,whereas now they cannot even get within range for their turrets. When was the last time you saw a gatecamp that even a megathron had even a chance to dent? >.< Megathrons and Tempests will throw in Null / Barrage and hope for the best, Geddons will just pwn up on everything cause range = jokes for Lazars Maybe I'm fighting the wrong people, I need to come hang out wherever you are Cantlock. As for the guy above me: Never happens :-P
cantlockyet	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Naviset Edited by: Naviset on 12/11/2007 19:08:35 Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Easla Surprise via speed? Here's a surprise you're going to look forward to in the near future: Picture the scenario. You're out pvping. Or hell, maybe you are just moving around 0.0, back from ratting or something. Whether it's in plated cruiser or uber nanoed snaked vagabond it doesn't matter. The very first time you jump into a dictor camp - you are dead. A cheap easily trainable ship with frigate speed and lockspeed which can web to 20km + a dictor bubble = dictor gate camps are 100% guarenteed death. Fun. At least before due to huggin's being a long train and somewhat rare you had a chance. A lot of time coming through gates you're going to be over 20kms from the gate whenever you appear on the otherside, giving nanoships a chance to MWD out of the bubble. Also, inertia will get nanoships back to the gate in most cases. Nonnano stuff is screwed, but they were always screwed. Its not just the nano ship but also closerange brawlers...Because if they cannot get within range they are useless. And... they weren't screwed already how? They could mwd to the gate or possibly rip apart the enemy gang,whereas now they cannot even get within range for their turrets. When was the last time you saw a gatecamp that even a megathron had even a chance to dent? >.< Megathrons and Tempests will throw in Null / Barrage and hope for the best, Geddons will just pwn up on everything cause range = jokes for Lazars Maybe I'm fighting the wrong people, I need to come hang out wherever you are Cantlock. As for the guy above me: Never happens :-P I really i dont know how you knew about my alt.... But anyways believe it or not some people still gatecamp with less then 100 people,when i was in razor we killed some of those....And trust me a buffer fitted mega WOULD dent most ships before it went down.
WowZilla The Leeroy Jenkins Project	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:22:00 - [13] As a pro vaga pilot and anti 'nerf vaga' pilot too here is my stance. The hyena will add an extra bit of spice into the life of a vaga pilot. See what I did there you nerf brigade mofo's? yeh, its called enjoying eve for what it is. ofc i'll be flying hyenas to catch vagas too should be fun ______________________ I am the worst poster
Cornette Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:34:00 - [14] Excuse my ignorance, but what is a hyena?
Cornette Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:37:00 - [15] Nevermind I found the information here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=513
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:07:00 - [16] the things the OP mentions are reasonable. a small longrange web ship with extreme fast locking time is indeed a huge imbalance if u think about gate camp scenarios. and because of this the prices will skyrocket as soon as they enter the game. again another market imbalance. ccp should rethink the idea of electronic attack ships since there isnt much of a counter to a ship with superior speed, lockspeed and ew capability compared to all other ships. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Reto the things the OP mentions are reasonable. a small longrange web ship with extreme fast locking time is indeed a huge imbalance if u think about gate camp scenarios. and because of this the prices will skyrocket as soon as they enter the game. again another market imbalance. ccp should rethink the idea of electronic attack ships since there isnt much of a counter to a ship with superior speed, lockspeed and ew capability compared to all other ships. Personally I thought the idea of EAS ships being introduced were dumb because they'd be incredibly powerful, especially against already disadvantaged larger ships... And the marauders/black ops look like trash, HICs are good to counter lowsec but might cause a horrid increase in lossrates of supercaps driving them into inviability. Basically, the entire trinity patch blows besides the graphics updates.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Reto the things the OP mentions are reasonable. a small longrange web ship with extreme fast locking time is indeed a huge imbalance if u think about gate camp scenarios. and because of this the prices will skyrocket as soon as they enter the game. again another market imbalance. ccp should rethink the idea of electronic attack ships since there isnt much of a counter to a ship with superior speed, lockspeed and ew capability compared to all other ships. Don't see how this is different than a huginn/rapier with 2 or 3 sensor boosters. No counter to them? Those frigs can probably be one-shot by most bigger ships. Electronic attack frigs are fine. Forsch Defender of the empire
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Reto the things the OP mentions are reasonable. a small longrange web ship with extreme fast locking time is indeed a huge imbalance if u think about gate camp scenarios. and because of this the prices will skyrocket as soon as they enter the game. again another market imbalance. ccp should rethink the idea of electronic attack ships since there isnt much of a counter to a ship with superior speed, lockspeed and ew capability compared to all other ships. Don't see how this is different than a huginn/rapier with 2 or 3 sensor boosters. No counter to them? Those frigs can probably be one-shot by most bigger ships. Electronic attack frigs are fine. Even the Caldari EAS ship is as fast as most nanos, the Heyna likely to rival interceptors.
Easla	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Forsch Don't see how this is different than a huginn/rapier with 2 or 3 sensor boosters. No counter to them? Those frigs can probably be one-shot by most bigger ships. It isnt different than a sensor boosted huginn. Apart from......having a fraction of the training time and being far cheaper. A small-mid sized dictor camp with aforementioned sb-boosted huginn is almost certain death to any single ship. As for being 1 shotted by most bigger ships Right obviously because that's what happens to inty's which is why no one flies them.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:05:00 - [21] I see alot of inties die every day. The electronic attack ships are slower and have a larger signature radius. I don't think, getting rid of them will be a problem. Forsch Defender of the empire
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Forsch I see alot of inties die every day. The electronic attack ships are slower and have a larger signature radius. I don't think, getting rid of them will be a problem. There is EAS that is the anti inty - but I'm not telling you which one it is (the answer is not obvious). Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
VB Sarge	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:44:00 - [23] After reviewing them, I think the pros/cons almost even out. Yes, they are fast, and some of the bonusses seem very powerful, and yes, likely, the price of these ships will be ridiculous at first. This is also the result of countless discussions on how nano ships are too powerful and there is no counter. T1 Frigs aren't able to stand up to anything bigger than a T1 Frig in most situations, and this T2 Frig will most likely have the tank of a Stealth Bomber or Interceptor, as in, not much. The fact that they don't get sig reduction or cloakability, means they will be very easy to dispatch. Likely, they will be primary for anyone running a gate camp, and with the undoubtably overinflated market prices we will soon see, will be a blow to anyone putting forth the bill to have one of these flown. Just like anything, all this requires is to rethink ideas in PvP. We will see a new wave of tactics arise to counter this new technology. It is a very good thing in my opinion. Does this add balance? In my opinion, yes, yes it does. One more step on the bringing down of the solo pwn mobile house. HAC's are still powerful and useful, and will be after these ships come out. It will just make you think again, and not rely on what has been handed down as "the way things are done with this ship" at least for a little while...
Galan Undris	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:59:00 - [24] Edited by: Galan Undris on 12/11/2007 22:00:19 Originally by: VB Sarge T1 Frigs aren't able to stand up to anything bigger than a T1 Frig in most situations, and this T2 Frig will most likely have the tank of a Stealth Bomber or Interceptor, as in, not much. Looks to me like they have AF-level resistances and powergrid (taking one less high into account), thats quite a bit tougher than an inty. Hyena will have Jaguar/Vaga resistances (ie. very nice) Still quite fragile, but it won't instapop as soon as it takes a hit. Definatly trying out a Hyena once they drop to 15-20 mill.
Daphne Oboe	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Forsch I see alot of inties die every day. The electronic attack ships are slower and have a larger signature radius. I don't think, getting rid of them will be a problem. There is EAS that is the anti inty - but I'm not telling you which one it is (the answer is not obvious). Liang Hm, do tell - because it seems pretty obvious that it's the sentinel to me. Also, to the OP, I'm not sure how the hyena breaks solo pvp... You mean how it fixes the solo pvp that the vagabond broke?
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Daphne Oboe Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Forsch I see alot of inties die every day. The electronic attack ships are slower and have a larger signature radius. I don't think, getting rid of them will be a problem. There is EAS that is the anti inty - but I'm not telling you which one it is (the answer is not obvious). Liang Hm, do tell - because it seems pretty obvious that it's the sentinel to me. Also, to the OP, I'm not sure how the hyena breaks solo pvp... You mean how it fixes the solo pvp that the vagabond broke? erm....solopvp wasnt broken by the vagabond...vagabond is a way to effectiveley evading larger groups of gank horny blobers by running faster than the wind. This is solo pvp. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:12:00 - [27] Originally by: Easla Originally by: Forsch Don't see how this is different than a huginn/rapier with 2 or 3 sensor boosters. No counter to them? Those frigs can probably be one-shot by most bigger ships. It isnt different than a sensor boosted huginn. Apart from......having a fraction of the training time and being far cheaper. A small-mid sized dictor camp with aforementioned sb-boosted huginn is almost certain death to any single ship. As for being 1 shotted by most bigger ships Right obviously because that's what happens to inty's which is why no one flies them. Your statement about nobody flying inties is flat wrong. According to the ship construction devblog, the most popular T2 ship is the Crow.
Corphus The NewOrder BORG Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:15:00 - [28] imo its too much if a eas has : af like resilence. intie like speed and agility. recon ew capability. bs like sensor strenght. and af like targeting resolution and range. they should be fragile and not as fast as inties in order putting themself in danger EWing the enemy. EW should never be an bulletproof lifeinsurance but a tactical addition to the combat system.
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:31:00 - [29] If the Hyena becomes a popular ship (what IMHO will happen at the beginning), it will also automatically become primaried. Since it's a T2 ship which will probably suffer the usual insurance undercoverage, and since it will go down quite fast since it's still only a frigate, Hyena pilots will probably fit cloaks to avoid to give out their presence except for attacking when conditions are favorable, what in turn will degrade their locking times due to the lower scan res and the targeting delay penalty after uncloaking. Let's see if manticores will be able to one-volley them
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Corphus Edited by: Corphus on 12/11/2007 22:20:09 imo its too much if a eas has : af like resilence. intie like speed and agility. recon ew capability. bs like sensor strenght. and af like targeting resolution and range. you forgot the bit where they have 50%+ more mass than the inties (kitsune has 1.6mkg mass) --- planetary interaction idea!

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