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Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:14:00 - [1] Praetoria Holdings IPO Plan • Chapter 1 - Summary of Praetoria Holdings • Chapter 2 - Background on origins/idea/current business • Chapter 3 - Coporate Governance • Chapter 4 - The Business Plan • Chapter 5 - Statement of Assets • Chapter 6 - Full Disclosure of Risks • Chapter 7 - Full Disclosure of Main and Alts • Chapter 8 - Exit Strategy • Chapter 9 - IPO Phases, Dividends, Market Cap • Chapter 10 - FAQ Chapter 1 - Summary of Praetoria Holdings Praetoria Holdings will be a Holding Company, with Visiontek Heavy Research the Corp generating the Profit that is returned to investors. The Profit shall be generated with copying Freighter BPC's and selling them to all the Invention / Tech 2 Builders out there who have been popping up like mad and will be needing the copies. I believe this can be done most effectively with Freighters, due to the Copy time, which will mean they will not be able to get enough of them for Invention purposes. I very much want to place an emphasis on my belief that keeping it simple maximises the ease of Auditing and oversight, and also minimises the Risks associated. Chapter 2 - Background on origins/idea/current business I first started thinking of starting an IPO after reading the Market Forums for a while, and being impressed with the level of understanding for businesses on them. I myself used to work as a financial advisor, and read these things real life all the time, and I must admit, they were far more detailed, but I always wished for a 2 page overview to actually explain them properly to an enduser, not a 160 page Prospectus for example. So I started looking for an opportunity to do this myself, which I discovered approximately 10 days ago. This was when I realised that people were starting to get slightly wary of Invention / Tech 2 IPOs, due to the mass already out there. At this point I realised that this could really be an opportunity, rather than a hindrance. That, with a simple idea, one could generate a good, stable Profit. This simple idea then, is to copy Freighter BPC's and sell them on, as there will be a larger demand for these very soon from all the Invention / Tech 2 Builders out there who will be needing the copies to invent / build the Jump Freighter. I also think that the copy time is a definate advantage, as this will mean they will not be able to get enough Freighter BPCs for Invention purposes. The only other Person involved directly in this IPO, will be the alt of a current Corp-Mate of mine, Kithka, who is the current CEO of Visiontek Heavy Research. He has agreed to give this Character 51% of the Shares of Visiontek Heavy Research, and usage of the Corp for this Operation. The reason this is important is that he has already invested in the standings to get a POS in High Sec. This being said, he has no say in the operations of the running of this IPO, as I own 51% of the corp as protection. However, I will be paying him 20 mill a month as "rent". This will fall into the overheads, which will run to 110 million a month, a sum which has been taken into account for all dividend calculations (all numbers are end numbers, nothing tricked by making them pre-overheads or the like). Chapter 3 - Corporate Governance The Structure is very Simple. Praetoria Holdings will be a 1-Man Corp, with 51% of Visiontek Heavy Research, where the Research Alt will be placed to conduct the Copying of the BPOs. The Copies get transferred to the Holding Corp for Sale, to ease the Management and Sale of the BPCs, as well as Share Management. There will only be one character with Wallet Access, although, if it is requested, then I will gladly let in an Auditor of the Investors' chosing to also oversee accounts. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Iemue Cairr	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:15:00 - [2] Chapter 4 - The Business Plan Having noticed a climate of increasing expansion of T2 invention Corps, I believe there is one part that can generate a good Return. We have all heard of the new Jump Freighter coming, and for that there will be a big market for BPCs of the Tech 1 Freighters. This is where I see a good profit margin, as BPCs of Freighters currently Trade at over 200 million ISK. I shall set up this operation with 6 Freighter BPOs and a POS with 2 Advanced Labs (This will be done in High Sec, Visiontek already has the standings) to make Copies of these, although for the first 6 Months, I will be copying only 5, the other 1 will be in Research for Material efficiency. During the startup of this venture, there will be a Period of 6 Weeks during which no dividend will be paid, as it will be the first copying phase. This IPO will also not have an end Date attached, however after 6 Months I will take a good look at how everything has developed, with attention to Detail on 2 Fronts: 1) Are the investors Happy as it is, and if yes then 2) where could there be potential for expansion. I want to make it clear now that there is not a plan for expansion from the beginning. However I will be keeping a look out to see if there is potential there at the end of the 6 Months for expansion if the Investors are happy, and would be willing to support such a move. They would of course get pre-release purchase rights. This Character will receive no salary, however he will hold the 500 Shares not open in the IPO as his payment. Look at it as a Bonus System, the more the Corp makes, the more I get paid. Chapter 5 - Statement of Assets The Holding Corp will be set up with nothing, the Monetary Assets will be aquired with this IPO Offering, and will be used to purchase equipment in order to generate the returns. Chapter 6 - Full Disclosure of Risks There are only 2 main risks associated with this IPO: This is that the price of Freighter BPCs drops significantly below 150 million ISK, even at 125 millions ISK, costs are covered and 5% Returns per copy phase can be achieved. As I said, I believe very much in keeping it simple, because this minimises risk, and this point is really the only variable which is a threat to the returns for Investors. Liquidating Assets should return close to 100%, perhaps even a slight profit with Researched BPOs, however I do guarantee 90% throughout (again, pessimistic, I believe it would be more if liquidated). The only other direct risk via association, would be a total reduction in my RL Health. To that I can only say, I am 23, very active and fit, and do not see that happening any time soon, however, should something serious happen to me, I will make sure an independent Auditor has full access to corp and assets. Financially, I am an International Sales Manager at a profitable Company, so I do not expect that to be any issue, anyways the Account is a power of 2 account which is already paid for 6 Months. I will add any further risks here that might come up through questions from other players. Scamming: OK, the info in the Faq is obviously not going to be sufficient, so I will include it here again and go into it a little further. I realise that this is always a risk with an IPO, that someone might be scamming. All I can really say, is that I have put in a lot of work with this plan and with crunching numbers 4 and 5 times over to know exactly what to expect. I am also willing to listen to any suggestions from the Public, as to reasonable add-ins to secure this IPO. The possibility of an auditor for example is mentioned multiple times in this Document, and it should be someone chosen by you, the investors.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:16:00 - [3] Chapter 7 - Full Disclosure of Main and Alts My main is Feyloan. He is nealy a year old now, and has grown into a very skillful Miner/Refiner in this time. He will be a shareholder, but nothing more than that. I have created a research Alt (Iemue Cairr) to carry out the Research and Copying, and of course the alt posting this, who is the CEO of Praetoria Holdings and in charge of all administration of this venture. Therefore all Questions should be directed to this character. My alts are the following: Bakimi Ghevorchal (CEO of the Praetoria Holdings) Iemue Cairr (Researcher in Visiontek Heavy Research) Chapter 8 - Exit Strategy If truly all goes to pot, and I have calculated very pessimistically as it is, then the Assets will be liquidated, with a minimum of 90% of the Original Share Price being returned. Chapter 9 - IPO Phases, Dividends, Market Cap Total Number of Shares 13,000 Shares Allocated for IPO 12,500 Price Per Share 1,000,000 Anticipated Market Capitalization 12,500,000,000 Dividend Schedule See below Total Dividend Payment See below Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%) See below Projected Return per Share See below Dividends: The Dividends will be paid in a non classic sense. That is, every time a BPC is sold, 80% goes to Investors, the other 20% stay in Corp to cover expenses. The reason for this is that a monthly dividend would not be possible due to the cycle time of copying Freighter BPOs. There will also be an extra dividend at the start of the month, if all costs for the month have been paid and the Corp Wallet is over 50 Million ISK. This said, the projected returns I will advertise will be 5% per month (50,000 per share). The reason for this is pessimism, I would rather say 5% and pay 8%, than say 7% and have a month where it only reaches 6,5%. The Numbers I have do project a higher return than 5% though, and there will be a monthly Report on progress, dividend payments within the month, and total % returns for the month. I want to reiterate, 5% can be achieved with a BPC Value of 125 mil, so it is very pessimistic. Restrictions: Max. 1 Billion ISK per Investor ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:16:00 - [4] Chapter 10 - FAQ Q: How do I know this isn't a scam? A: For this I have no better answers than many of the People starting an IPO before me. If you trust me, invest, if you don't, then by all means post your fears and I will attempt to answer them as fully as possible. Q: How do you know you'll be successful? A: Diligent crunching of Numbers, and I also cannot guarantee the success, there is a risk involved, however I have tried to minimise this risk by keeping it simple. Q: Why are you doing this? A: Because I see this as a possibility to use the current climate of lots of tech 2 Corps to our advantage. I also believe this can be a lot of fun, for all concerned, and that this is primarily what a game is about, fun. Q: Do you intend to have an audit done at some point? A: If investors express the wish for it, then an independent Auditor of your choice would be welcome, and will be given full oversight, as also outlined above in the plan. Q: What's your background? A: My Main is in Mining, Refining and sometimes Manufacturing, and what my desktop background is, is none of your business... Q: Will you ever buy back shares? A: Shares will be bought back at any time, however with two restrictions. They will be locked for the first 6 Weeks, and until 1st March 2008 I will require one weeks Notice (that is maximum, it most likely will not be required, it is just a safety precaution). Buyback will be at 90% of price until 1st of March 2008, thereafter it will be 95%. Q: Will you ever pay over 5% dividends? A: Depending on profits. I have outlined the dividend above, and the potential for higher dividends is quite clearly there. Q: What if someone War Decs Visiontek Heavy Research? A: Such a case would only endanger the POS, as the BPOs will be stored in the high-sec station. The POS would be upgraded significantly on a defensive side straight after a 24 Hour Warning. Alternatively, I could just transfer POS and BPO's to the Holding Corp, leaving no assets in danger. Q: This sounds familiar, does Synergy Development ring a bell? A: I realise that this venture looks, at face value, very much like a carbon copy. The truth is, I had the idea the start of the month, and began crunching numbers. Just when I had started getting a proposal written up, Synergy came along, and to be honest, my heart sank a little. There are however a few very subte, yet important differences. My Monthly costs are significantly lower (110 million compared to 300), and I do not intend to go into Invention. I also have a totally new way of paying dividends, so I think this is a simple idea that can work. After talking with Ricdic, I also firmly believe that the market will not be overflowed simply because there is a second Corp doing this, especially as in Synergy's Phase 2 he will be using the BPCs himself. This being said, I do of course wish him all the best. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Feyloan	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:20:00 - [5] Confirming that this is my alt, the Researcher accdentally posted the Second part of the Plan, so I will count her as confirmed as well. So far just over 1,500 Shares have been purchased by my corp and friends, which I would also like to take into consideration on the point of me being trustworthy, and this not being a scam.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:29:00 - [6] Also, please send ISK directly to the Corp, not to this Character, and if you are investing, just post a short note here, shares will be distributed this evening around 22:30 eve time ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:00:00 - [7] I like the dividend structure and, business wise, you seem to have covered almost everything I can think of in your plan and QA. My main concern would be the fact that you are an unknown here. Synergy got around this by securing the investment with an expensive BPO so do you plan on offering similar security to investors in any way? Also, your main will get 500 shares 'for free', the dividend payments on these will give you your salary but will you also recieve isk if the corp liquidates?
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:17:00 - [8] I totally agree that my biggest issue is the Trust part with me being unknown in these parts. However, this is a sound business plan, and I really am bubbling with motivation to put theory into practice. The 500 Shares are solely for my "salary". If the corp gets liquidated, then I will make liquidation value / 12500, those 500 shares will not count. It just seemed a fairer way to pay a gains-based salary. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:40:00 - [9] Seems pretty solid to me, and its a well written plan. But i think we have a such IPO like this out already, tho it isnt all that important. Have you considered having a third party lock down the BPO's? That will help you alot. Its the sole reason why CAP4U ever sold out, because there was security in place. And you can be sure, if you do that, many people will be interested. How are you gonna copy them? Own POS? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:54:00 - [10] You can't split dividends between different types of shares. However upon liquidation you can just have the shares in the corp wallet, and keep paying dividends until all the money is gone. I know I read this plan pre-launch but I will ask these as I forgot earlier: 1) Will the BPO's be locked down in your corporation? So basically as investors will we actually see the BPO lockdown vote? Whilst there is an unlock bpo bug that can be bypassed, it is an exploit and CCP get involved if done. So this can add a little bit of security to your plan, and make people feel fuzzy inside if possible 2) Even though you are giving per-sale dividends will you provide monthly update/reports etc? 3) I would have brought this up with Synergy but I only found it today and kept the page handy as I knew your offering was gonna show. dev post found here Originally by: CCP Nozh I think Chronotis did some magic to the BPO's to increase the success rate up to almost 100% as with the invention success rate This was in direct relation to a question posted about the long copy times on freighters as an alternative to dropping their copy time. Do you expect this to have an impact on your operation if it takes effect, and if so do you believe it could be positive or negative? Best of luck with the operation. I have spent some time with Feyloan in channels for quite some time and he was annoyed that someone else actioned almost the exact same plan that he was brewing up. Obviously it's no-one's fault just unlucky. So, it's an unsecured IPO. I explained to him he may have some problems selling out due to the previous one, and the fact that this one isn't secured, and that he may need to decide on ways to make this one stand out differently to the Synergy one to promote it better. This is where the dividend per sale idea was adopted. With copies your prices are somewhat fixed so they actually have the ability to adopt this kind of dividend system. I think some people who like constant isk deposits will like this a bit more. I think it will be fantastic having 2 almost identical corps, to compare the way they run and operate, to compare their performance levels etc. I also think having them both run by competent people we will see them competing against each other (in a friendly way) more to provide higher income to their investors. Anyway, that's my take on it. EBANK have limited their investment to 250m due to the potentially lower returns and the lack of security. I personally haven't invested as this month is dedicated to finalising C-P-H. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:18:00 - [11] Originally by: LaVista Vista Seems pretty solid to me, and its well written plan. But i think we have a such IPO like this out already, tho it isnt all that important. Correct, though I do believe the market has definately got space for a second, without influencing the profitability of either Originally by: LaVista Vista Have you considered having a third party lock down the BPO's? That will help you alot. Its the sole reason why CAP4U ever sold out, because there was security in place. And you can be sure, if you do that, many people will be interested. I was always open to suggestion, and I am prepared to do this. However, the shares are in the holding corp, which owns 51% of the Corp in which the actual Copying will take place. Originally by: LaVista Vista How are you gonna copy them? Own POS? Yes, POS in High Sec is stated in Business Plan. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Ricdic You can't split dividends between different types of shares. However upon liquidation you can just have the shares in the corp wallet, and keep paying dividends until all the money is gone. That was how I planned on doing it in such a scenario, should have explained more clearly. Originally by: Ricdic 1) Will the BPO's be locked down in your corporation? So basically as investors will we actually see the BPO lockdown vote? Whilst there is an unlock bpo bug that can be bypassed, it is an exploit and CCP get involved if done. So this can add a little bit of security to your plan, and make people feel fuzzy inside if possible Basically, same answer as above. The BPOs themselves will be in the research corp in a High Sec Station with the Research Character. This does not mean I am unwilling to do this, just that any suggestion as to how I can do this without changing the setup would be welcome. Originally by: Ricdic 2) Even though you are giving per-sale dividends will you provide monthly update/reports etc? Yes I will. There is a Mailing List setup with the Corp name, I will post there each time a dividend is sent, and give a monthly overview, with % paid in a given month. This will also be posted in the Market Discussion Forums. Originally by: Ricdic 3) I would have brought this up with Synergy but I only found it today and kept the page handy as I knew your offering was gonna show. dev post found here Originally by: CCP Nozh I think Chronotis did some magic to the BPO's to increase the success rate up to almost 100% as with the invention success rate This was in direct relation to a question posted about the long copy times on freighters as an alternative to dropping their copy time. Do you expect this to have an impact on your operation if it takes effect, and if so do you believe it could be positive or negative? This is news to me, although I think this will have only a small effect long term. Short Term profits would possibly suffer, due to the Prices not rocketing up. There will still be a need for Tier 1 Freighters, as well as many people wanting the Jump Freighters, hence the Long-Term evaluation. Originally by: Ricdic So, it's an unsecured IPO. I explained to him he may have some problems selling out due to the previous one, and the fact that this one isn't secured, and that he may need to decide on ways to make this one stand out differently to the Synergy one to promote it better. This is where the dividend per sale idea was adopted. With copies your prices are somewhat fixed so they actually have the ability to adopt this kind of dividend system. I think some people who like constant isk deposits will like this a bit more. Precicely. I also believe that this is about the only IPO out there that can pay the dividend in that way, as there will only be 5 (max. 6) sales a month, it would be unrealistic for most others. Originally by: Ricdic I think it will be fantastic having 2 almost identical corps, to compare the way they run and operate, to compare their performance levels etc. I also think having them both run by competent people we will see them competing against each other (in a friendly way) more to provide higher income to their investors. Believing in a free market, I have to agree. The benefits outweigh the possible downsides. The market does definately have the capacity to satisfy both these Corps. Originally by: Ricdic Anyway, that's my take on it. EBANK have limited their investment to 250m due to the potentially lower returns and the lack of security. I personally haven't invested as this month is dedicated to finalising C-P-H. Again, publicly, thank you for the help so far, and the trust put in me, through what you are saying, and through EBANK. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:40:00 - [13] What i would suggest you, is to take down your own POS(More expensive to run yourself), and join Zzz alliance. Have some well-known person lock down the BPO's, and get copying. This will allow for safety and trust. Of course, this isnt a must. You do seem like a very well-spoken guy. So i wish you good luck. But i do have a few recommendations for you, if you want to convo me when i get ingame. Im not gonna post them here tho, so get in touch with me. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:44:00 - [14] Well having the security is all well and good, but I probably wouldn't put my hand up. I have secured a lot of operations of late and people probably want some new options as more and more isk is in my hands (God knows, it's probably gone from about 65b 3 months ago to around 100-130b today). My lockdown question was in regards to you locking them down within your own corporations (no external security parties). As long as it is done within the same corporation. Anyway, if you do want to do that security thing Feyloan, feel free to contact me or anyone else who offers it. I wouldn't call it a requirement, just a quicker way to sell your shares. I reckon you will sell them regardless but it's your call. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:49:00 - [15] Originally by: LaVista Vista What i would suggest you, is to take down your own POS(More expensive to run yourself), and join Zzz alliance. Have some well-known person lock down the BPO's, and get copying. This will allow for safety and trust. Of course, this isnt a must. On principle this would be ok, to have me place 2 advanced labs there. However, the whole idea of the holding corp would then be nullified, I will not discount this though, I think it is a good idea. However, I would prefer to use it more as a last resort if this turns out to not be possible without. Originally by: LaVista Vista You do seem like a very well-spoken guy. So i wish you good luck. But i do have a few recommendations for you, if you want to convo me when i get ingame. Im not gonna post them here tho, so get in touch with me. My goodness, every posting here has compliments in it, my ego will be unbearable soon I will definately convo you when I get online, however that will not be before 22:30 eve time. Currently at work, and will not be home before then. I might have a small gap around about 17:00 eve time, though I doubt it, but I will try. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Ricdic My lockdown question was in regards to you locking them down within your own corporations (no external security parties). As long as it is done within the same corporation. Anyway, if you do want to do that security thing Feyloan, feel free to contact me or anyone else who offers it. I wouldn't call it a requirement, just a quicker way to sell your shares. I reckon you will sell them regardless but it's your call. Ok, the easy answer is, yes, I would be perfectly happy to lock the BPOs down within Visiontek Heavy Research. I would also be willing to transfer the 51% of that corporation from this Character to Praetoria Holdings. However, the investors are investing in the latter, and will not be able to see the lockdown. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:09:00 - [17] I shall be trustfully investing in this, because if the OP scams me, I know where he lives IRL and what he holds dear
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Ishina Fel I shall be trustfully investing in this, because if the OP scams me, I know where he lives IRL and what he holds dear Oh noooo, not my little sportscar ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Potsnack	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:15:00 - [19] Ok Bakimi, it's unsecured, but I like what I see, so I'll kick-start it off with an order for 500 shares. Isk will be sent within the hour. Good luck with the venture. Cheers Pot
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:27:00 - [20] I already started it at 250m Yarr

Athias	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:27:00 - [21] ISK send to Praetoria Holdings corp for 50 shares
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 23:55:00 - [22] Thank you for your trust, shares have just been sent out, and title of thread will be updated again tomorrow morning depending on orders ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
VO Mathilda	Posted - 2007.11.14 01:02:00 - [23] 250 million isk wired to your corp for 250 shares. Good luck.
Dreni	Posted - 2007.11.14 01:07:00 - [24] ISK send to Praetoria Holdings corp for 200 shares
Crazy Wong	Posted - 2007.11.14 02:12:00 - [25] Isk sent for 10 shares.
Jolaqa Voruska Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2007.11.14 04:50:00 - [26] 100M sent to corp Praetoria Holdings for 100 shares
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.14 07:43:00 - [27] Shares were sent out this morning, about an hour ago to be exact. For Regular Updates on this Venture, please Subscribe to "Praetoria Holdings" Mailing List in-game. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Drej Kirr Amarr Triumvirate Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:52:00 - [28] I would like 50 shares if available.Transferring 50 mil Isk to Praetoria Holdings now.
Kara Rhane Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:57:00 - [29] I'll be transferring 100 mill when the EVE server comes back up. Please be aware that I might have to go to work and will keep my word to transfer 100 mill to your corp for the shares as soon as I return. Please see my thread link in my sig for trustworthiness, and a few people on here know me and how much I value my own and my corps reputation. Thank you, and have a great day! -Kara ***** Rhane's Research and Development LabsÖ Click to search our Ammo's, Missiles, and Drone BPO sets.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.14 13:55:00 - [30] I will be back online in approximately three hours, shares will be transfered at that point, welcome to the venture... ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company

Ryuga VonRhaiden Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:33:00 - [31] operation costs will certainly cover the POS fuel for the 2 laboratories, and only 50% of available slots will be actually used. have you thought about using the remaining 6 ME slots for an additional task, for the benefit of the whole IPO? Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Ryuga VonRhaiden operation costs will certainly cover the POS fuel for the 2 laboratories, and only 50% of available slots will be actually used. have you thought about using the remaining 6 ME slots for an additional task, for the benefit of the whole IPO? The operational costs are pessimistically calculated. Almost everything is calculated this way, so everything will most likely turn out better for the investors. I will be using 6 Slots and have 8 slots available. This is either 1 Copy, 3 ME and 4 Invention, or 4 ME and 4 Invention, depending on a Freigher BPO being in research or not. Now, on to you actual question: Yes, I have. This was meant as a bonus idea to generate more ISK for investors with no extra costs when the operation gets going, as a thank you for putting the trust in me and investing. I intend to rent these out on a Job-by-Job basis in the Sell Order Forums, however, if you, or anyone else for that matter, has an idea, I am open to suggestion. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ryuga VonRhaiden Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.11.14 16:16:00 - [33] I have another question... What do we exactly know about T2 freighters? They weren't announced for the following expansion AFAIK (at least i didn't read any devblog mentioning them), and i know only what i've seen on battleclinic forums (a few images of standard freighters with just changed name and a few things in attributes)... Did I miss something i shouldn't have? :) Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature.
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:40:00 - [34] 50m sent for 50 shares please :)
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Ryuga VonRhaiden I have another question... What do we exactly know about T2 freighters? They weren't announced for the following expansion AFAIK (at least i didn't read any devblog mentioning them), and i know only what i've seen on battleclinic forums (a few images of standard freighters with just changed name and a few things in attributes)... Did I miss something i shouldn't have? :) This IPO will work independently of any release of the actual Jump Freighter. It will however (with the exception that the idea of invention from BPOs gets implemented, which I believe is highly unlikely) make use of what I expect to be an increase in price for Freighter BPCs once the Jump Freighters do get implemented. I hope that answers the question ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Petter Sandstad Taggart Transdimensional Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:01:00 - [36] This does not have anything to do with Praetoria Shipyards, right?
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:14:00 - [37] Originally by: Petter Sandstad This does not have anything to do with Praetoria Shipyards, right? No, nothing what so ever, unfortunate similarity in names, that's all. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
BhurakStarkiller	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:39:00 - [38] 200m sent
Beexer	Posted - 2007.11.14 21:20:00 - [39] 100M sent.
JadeMako	Posted - 2007.11.14 22:07:00 - [40] and 50mill sent from me

Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.14 22:29:00 - [41] Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 14/11/2007 22:29:24 I'll try to scr-ape(filter..) a few hundred mil together, will contact you ingame
Kara Rhane Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.	Posted - 2007.11.14 23:51:00 - [42] Confirming I have sent 100 mill to the Praetoria Holding corp. Sorry it took so long, overtime sucks. -Kara ***** Rhane's Research and Development LabsÖ Click to search our Ammo's, Missiles, and Drone BPO sets.
Lannier Na'Toth VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.14 23:59:00 - [43] On the advise of my alliance mate that knows were you live 100 mill sent
Mr Fubar Minmatar VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.15 00:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Ishina Fel I shall be trustfully investing in this, because if the OP scams me, I know where he lives IRL and what he holds dear Good enough for me! Plz give me 1000 shares 1 bil isk sent. =========================== Mr Fubar
Karnovsky	Posted - 2007.11.15 01:17:00 - [45] Sounds good, sign me up for 300mil isk worth plz, will send isk.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.15 01:48:00 - [46] All orders from this evening have been processed and shares sent out. Again, there will be a monthly post here on the Forums, but also more regular updates in-game in the Mailing list 'Praetoria Holdings' ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Regat Kozovv Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.15 04:19:00 - [47] I have sent 5 million ISK to this company in order to purchace 5 shares.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.15 13:55:00 - [48] Come on guys, I wanted to get this started at the Weekend and start paying nice dividends right in time for christmas... ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Drakesh Caldari CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:33:00 - [49] Edited by: Drakesh on 15/11/2007 17:33:57 =============================================
Reeze Calban	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:33:00 - [50] 20m isk sent for 20 shares thanks.

Bricker Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:03:00 - [51] 50mil sent. Ty
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:50:00 - [52] reserve 100 shares (110m isk) for me. I will send ISK later.
Bitter Brain	Posted - 2007.11.15 19:14:00 - [53] 200M sent for 200 shares. Good luck with the business! Bitter Brain
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.15 20:27:00 - [54] Reeze, Bricker and Bitter Brain: Shares sent Originally by: Atherin Gaius reserve 100 shares (110m isk) for me. I will send ISK later. The shares are 1 million a piece, I have reserved you 100, if you want more, just transfer isk and you'll get them. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Win Tein	Posted - 2007.11.15 20:31:00 - [55] Sending 200M for 200 shares.
Galorcore Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.16 00:21:00 - [56] ISK sent for 25 shares
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.16 09:28:00 - [57] Yesterday another 1993 Shares sold, bringing the total to well over 5,5 billion ISK so far. I will be proposing a vote to share holders to start this IPO at 6,5 billion, and then to just expand it when the investment comes in, rather than wait another week until it is totally sold out. This will mean that dividends can be paid sooner, and that there is more of a gap between sales, rather than putting items on the market once a month. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.16 13:10:00 - [58] ISK sent to Bakimi Ghevorchal.
Arc Anna Caldari Pacific Starfleet Command	Posted - 2007.11.16 15:48:00 - [59] Please reserve 100 shares for me. I will wire the isk as soon as I log on.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.16 16:47:00 - [60] Sending 200m for shares now.

Steel Tigeress Gallente Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.16 17:28:00 - [61] 60,000,000 isk sent for 60 shares.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.16 18:14:00 - [62] Originally by: Atherin Gaius ISK sent to Bakimi Ghevorchal. Please send the ISK to the corp, has been wired back to you, but 100 have been reserved for you. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.17 05:37:00 - [63] isk sent
spiked amarr Finite Horizon Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.11.17 08:08:00 - [64] 10m sent for 10 shares
Peter Armstrong Caldari Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.17 10:43:00 - [65] I sent 5 mil for 5 shares! I order more but just been shopping lol ------------------------------------ It's all part of the Experiance!
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.17 11:08:00 - [66] I have a Question and not really at your IPO but a few posts ago i asked Question about ipo and bonds. Now i noticed you have 5% for the share payout. Is this just a way to say you get a minimum no matter what? and what ever you get over it a bounces and a safe way? I just thought the bonds have a set % on payments etc? and IPO just what ever profit you make will be paid out? I am working on my IPO plan but just checking really. As you can tell i never worked in finance lol and RL business lol. Corporation Website
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.17 13:28:00 - [67] OK, lets take this a piece at a time... Originally by: northwestern Now i noticed you have 5% for the share payout. Is this just a way to say you get a minimum no matter what? This is what I predict will be the minimum after calculating all the numbers of income / expenditure, this is a pessimistic minimum which I will probably never have to go down to. Originally by: nothwestern and what ever you get over it a bounces and a safe way not to disapont your investors? Not quite sure what the question is. If you are meaning any profit over 5%, then this will be paid to the investors. If a month is 5% profit, they get 5%, if it is 10%, then they get 10%. The only "safe" way to make this work is by not dissappointing investors, which I will put my everything towards not doing. Originally by: northwestern I just thought the bonds have a set % on payments etc? and IPO just what ever profit you make will be paid out? This is correct. Originally by: northwestern I am working on my IPO plan but just checking really. Good luck with that, hope it runs well and will be looking forward to seeing what you plan, however, I hope that you worked very hard on your plan, because following does not exactly fill me with huge confidence: Originally by: northwestern As you can tell i never worked in finance lol and RL business lol. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Xeis	Posted - 2007.11.17 15:01:00 - [68] 10M sent for 10 shares.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.11.17 18:39:00 - [69] 125M sent for shares.
Alvar Irata III Trek Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.17 19:57:00 - [70] 50m ISK for 50 shares sent

Pye Loom Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.17 23:01:00 - [71] Sent isk for 20 shares. Good Luck with this venture. Pye Loom
Herodian Minmatar Gladius Noctem	Posted - 2007.11.18 08:56:00 - [72] isk sent for 100 shares
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.18 15:55:00 - [73] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal answers thanks for your Answers lol well My IPO not something big project like freighter or carriers etc. Be small time business really. good luck Corporation Website
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.18 16:40:00 - [74] Originally by: northwesten Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal answers thanks for your Answers lol well My IPO not something big project like freighter or carriers etc. Be small time business really. good luck Thank you, if you want any help, you can always contact me in-game under the Character Feyloan ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.18 16:43:00 - [75] NOTICE TO ALL INVESTORS AND POTENTIAL INVESTORS: I am away on a business Trip from tomorrow morning until Wednesday evening. Any Shares purchased before 05:00 Eve Time will be processed, otherwise you will receive the shares when I return, which will be Wednesday approx. 19:00. Any shares purchased in this time period will be processed then. I would like to emphasize, this will not affect this venture in any way. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Herodian Minmatar Gladius Noctem	Posted - 2007.11.18 18:59:00 - [76] shares received, thanks for the quick follow-up
Iron Guerilla Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.19 01:32:00 - [77] ISK sent for shares. Thanks.
Inturist Nuclear Reactor Inc Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.19 07:42:00 - [78] Edited by: Inturist on 19/11/2007 07:42:19 50 mil send for Praetoria Holdings for 50 shares --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shadowofflame	Posted - 2007.11.19 20:54:00 - [79] are there any more shares? if so i would like to reserve 100 shares. I will pay when you reply to this post saying there are more shares.
Paniq Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.19 20:59:00 - [80] Isk and evemail sent.

Ice D The League of Shadows	Posted - 2007.11.19 22:01:00 - [81] 90 shares purchased :)
Charlie Drago	Posted - 2007.11.20 01:16:00 - [82] Sent money for 50 shares Sounds like an interesting concept.
Zolcan Amarr Praetoria Shipyards	Posted - 2007.11.20 03:51:00 - [83] Good luck with this venture and all sending isk please make sure you send it to the right Praetoria! Zolcan PRAETORIA WEBPAGE
MindDragon Caldari The Flaming Sideburn's	Posted - 2007.11.20 04:25:00 - [84] Put me down for 10 shares. Isk sent. MD ------ This space for rent.
Johnathan Roark Caldari Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.20 06:56:00 - [85] Sent isk for 25 shares, thx Corporation Management Improvement
Shae Laurel	Posted - 2007.11.21 06:41:00 - [86] 100.000.000 isk sent for 100 shares.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.21 06:47:00 - [87] 100 million ISK sent for 100 shares. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| Learning to Trade
Potsnack	Posted - 2007.11.21 18:53:00 - [88] Right then - now that everyone has had a chance to buy some shares, any chance we can tempt some of the bigger investors to take a punt on this project, to move it forward? Or am I missing something serious that has you guys all spooked? I'll certainly bung some more into this to help it along if we can get a couple of major players involved as well (you know who you are) :) Cheers Pot
Na'hkin Oaks Pro-Trade Industries Inc	Posted - 2007.11.21 22:26:00 - [89] 60 mill sent for 60 shares
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.21 23:17:00 - [90] Originally by: Potsnack Right then - now that everyone has had a chance to buy some shares, any chance we can tempt some of the bigger investors to take a punt on this project, to move it forward? Or am I missing something serious that has you guys all spooked? Hi, I'm a big investor, I guess I could possible be someone who could "punt" this. Firstly there is nothing wrong with the business plan, it seems well thought out. I wish the corp the best of luck. To answer your question. I think there are a few of reasons for the lack of "bigger investors" "punting" this investment. There was an IPO that was put forth with almost the exact same business model, just a few days before this one. That other IPO was secured by a T2 ship BPO, making it "more secure", and thus it was bought into quickly, but the "big investors". Thus those that invested in that "first" IPO, arent likely to be intrested in also investing in this one, and doubling their exposure to loss, if the market and business model ends up failing due to demand, cost, price, or whatever the case maybe. There is a group of thought amongst some, that Jump Freighter Production will essential be something that only 0.0 allaince will be able to do efficently. Also the belief that the same 0.0 allainces will be most of the demand, so production and demand will be all in house. The belief that there will be a lot of competition in this market, more than there will be demand for, since with current numbers Roquals and some Dreads will be more fuel effiecent haulers. For 0.0 <--> Empire POS logistics, Moon minerals, and T2 Components. Some of the "big investors" are already planing to get into the same market on their own, either privately finaced or self funded. Please note, that my PERSONAL OPINION, there is some creedence to some of the above ideas, and some I think are a bit faulty, but thats not the point. I listed those reasons because while I may disagree or agree with them, they are reasons that I have heard at least once or twice from other "big investors". Myself, I am always reluctant to invest in Capital Ship IPO's just because of the time from start to finish for production, allows for a lot of chaos to enter into the "cost to profit" matrix. This is a personal choice of mine, and not something that I advocate for others, its just something that I avoid. If I did invest in Capital Ship IPO's, I would consider investing in this, since I havent done any research as of this time into the CEO's background I cant give you a definitive answer. I hope that helps answer your questions Potsnack. --

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.21 23:30:00 - [91] NOTICE: Right, I am back again now, have updated Title and have handed out Shares. Originally by: Potsnack Right then - now that everyone has had a chance to buy some shares, any chance we can tempt some of the bigger investors to take a punt on this project, to move it forward? Or am I missing something serious that has you guys all spooked? I'll certainly bung some more into this to help it along if we can get a couple of major players involved as well (you know who you are) :) Cheers Pot Quite a few went again these past couple of days, however there are still a significant number left. I can confirm 3 Holders have the 1 Billion limit, and a further 2 have 500 Million, so there have been some big investors so far. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.21 23:47:00 - [92] Heya, gonna pick this up slightly to answer your points. Originally by: Treelox Hi, I'm a big investor, I guess I could possible be someone who could "punt" this. Firstly there is nothing wrong with the business plan, it seems well thought out. I wish the corp the best of luck. Thank you, I will be putting a lot of effort into making this successful Originally by: Treelox To answer your question. I think there are a few of reasons for the lack of "bigger investors" "punting" this investment. There was an IPO that was put forth with almost the exact same business model, just a few days before this one. That other IPO was secured by a T2 ship BPO, making it "more secure", and thus it was bought into quickly, but the "big investors". Thus those that invested in that "first" IPO, arent likely to be intrested in also investing in this one, and doubling their exposure to loss, if the market and business model ends up failing due to demand, cost, price, or whatever the case maybe. I agree to the main part, this IPO is slightly different to Synergy, in that I want to stay clear of the invention side of things. The DEV posting as linked by Ricdic worries me, but only slightly. As for security, I agree fully, I made that clear in the plan, and I think that has been the main reason the shares are taking longer to sell out. As for investors being reluctant, I do not believe that this would be an adequate reason for them to not go ahead. This will sell out, and an experienced investor would prefer to be in than out, if only to have their fingers in many pies, because the plan is fundamentally different than Synergy. Originally by: Treelox There is a group of thought amongst some, that Jump Freighter Production will essential be something that only 0.0 allaince will be able to do efficently. Also the belief that the same 0.0 allainces will be most of the demand, so production and demand will be all in house. They will more than likely still need BPC to be able to get the numbers required, though this is not aimed solely at those, also at normal builders requiring Freighter BPCs. Originally by: Treelox The belief that there will be a lot of competition in this market, more than there will be demand for, since with current numbers Roquals and some Dreads will be more fuel effiecent haulers. For 0.0 <--> Empire POS logistics, Moon minerals, and T2 Components. I think, over short or long, CCP will make sure the Jump Freighters are balanced to be more efficient, they will want it to be used as the prime method of transportation in the long run. Originally by: Treelox Some of the "big investors" are already planing to get into the same market on their own, either privately finaced or self funded. To generate good returns, it needs to be a very big investment. So I do not believe many of my size will pop up. I also respect your opinion, and thank you for the input. I don't mean to correct you, simply point a few things out, I think there is a lot of truth in what you have written. However, I would not want someone to miss out on this simply because of perhaps a slight missunderstanding. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2007.11.22 00:29:00 - [93] Edited by: EBANK Ricdic on 22/11/2007 00:30:39 Treelox brings up some good points. I was kinda telling you in-game as well it would likely be a drawn out process for your sales or would never sell. There's nothing against your business plan at all, but with the one just before yours with both t2 and freighter bpo securities etc it was always going to be a battle for you. Through EBANK I had to limit my investment substantially due to the lack of securities or history in this field. I would also normally have thrown 500m of personal funds into this but this whole month is dedicated to repaying C-P-H (which sucks as there are so many IPO's coming out that I want to invest in, most notably guys from my alliance spreading their wings) But I have spent some time with you in-game and you seem like a decent bloke, but EBANK needs to limit it's investing as above. Probably one of the bigger diversification IPO buyers out here (Ricdic's Hoe) is taking a hiatus on purchases which makes it hard for you to get that 1 mass buyer to start the flood. WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.22 00:32:00 - [94] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal I also respect your opinion, and thank you for the input. I don't mean to correct you, simply point a few things out, I think there is a lot of truth in what you have written. However, I would not want someone to miss out on this simply because of perhaps a slight missunderstanding. No worries, I think its a good thing that you addressed those points, it will help you in the long run. I really tried to maintain a neutral tone in my post, because like I said some of the reasons given have more merit than others in my personal opinion. I did this in hopes that there wouldnt be any "misunderstanding" from others reading my orginal post at the bottom of page 3. I was trying to answer Potsnacks, and point out that there was nothing "wrong" with the ipo per se. By giving some generalizations as to why he didnt see the "big investors" actively buying into this corp. The only reason I am not personally investing is because of one of my own, some would say silly, rules. I avoid Cap Ship based IPO's. I have a few other funny personal rules for investment that others have said are silly, but they work for me. Other such funny rules as; I dont invest in corpmates IPO(can change a friendship dynamic for the worse), I dont invest in account farming IPO(just doesnt rub me right), I dont invest in anything that is ISS related( even before ISSO, I was always disappointed by their lack of shareholder communications). Best of luck Bakimi with the operations, may the iskie profits raindown upon you and your shareholders. And now, ill try and stay out of your thread and not derail nor confuse the issues further, so as not to cause any potential misunderstandings amoungst the current and potential investor base. --
hypec Minmatar Fringe Exploration And Salvage Trust FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.22 02:55:00 - [95] 300M sent for 300 shares. Thank you.
Amandrace Minmatar Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.22 06:15:00 - [96] 89 million sent for 89 shares
Chris Karl Baltic StarFleet Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.22 12:45:00 - [97] 100 mil sent for 100 shares -
Ryuga VonRhaiden Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.11.22 19:12:00 - [98] 130 mil sent for 130 shares :) Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature.
Letias Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.11.22 19:49:00 - [99] I just don't like limitations on investment.
Yaans	Posted - 2007.11.22 21:27:00 - [100] Edited by: Yaans on 22/11/2007 21:30:04 Edited by: Yaans on 22/11/2007 21:29:51 Stupid forum alts, 100m sent via another character for shares anyhow.

Wration Caldari GeoTech	Posted - 2007.11.23 00:54:00 - [101] 1 Bill sent for 1000 shares. Thanks
Slasher Arcana	Posted - 2007.11.23 02:13:00 - [102] As an investor, I missed on the vote to work on the initial capital investment or to wait. From the vote replies it was 60+% to go ahead. Thus far, is there any update on the progress or a schedule of reporting?
Marquedios Gallente Magna Mft	Posted - 2007.11.23 05:23:00 - [103] Sending 1B for 1K shares. Thanks, Marque ---------------------------------------- If it moves, shoot it; If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway -- it might move later.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.23 06:27:00 - [104] Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 23/11/2007 06:34:56 Originally by: Slasher Arcana As an investor, I missed on the vote to work on the initial capital investment or to wait. From the vote replies it was 60+% to go ahead. Thus far, is there any update on the progress or a schedule of reporting? The regular Reports will start when the dividends start, so expect to see one at the start of Jan here in Forums, and more regular on the in-game board. Regarding the Update, I was away on Business from Monday until Wednesday, so I have purchased the POS plus fuel and have hauled it to its destination, and it gets anchored tomorrow. Darn it, so early in the morning, should log in before posting.... this venture is now officially SOLD OUT, pending one last transfer, so please do not send any more ISK. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Calgorac The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.24 03:39:00 - [105] ttt Latest News
Ina Mina	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:16:00 - [106] How will the recent loss of five freighter BPOs affect the business?
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:43:00 - [107] loss of 5 freighter BPOs??? WHAT??
Ina Mina	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:59:00 - [108] Suicide gank, I was in local when he got his shuttle killed, and (according to the killer) two prints survived and 3 destroyed.
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:45:00 - [109] . . . People still move anything worth more than a hundred million ISK in shuttles?!
Ziberious Gallente VisionTek Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.11.24 23:47:00 - [110] Im not sure if this Information is correct or not. But just in advanced notice dont jump the guns until we have seen proof. I certainly want to see some proof of the destruction of his ship and the BPOs. Killboards mabey? Zibber

Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.25 04:29:00 - [111] i agree, jumping the gun and starting to yell won't help the situation. I would like to see a post form the OP regarding this and giving some information. Including, if it is true how he is going to replace the BPOs and/or pay us all back. Although if it is true, I truely don't expect we'll hear from him, hopefully he proves me wrong and does talk to us.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.25 05:12:00 - [112] Originally by: Atherin Gaius Although if it is true, I truely don't expect we'll hear from him, hopefully he proves me wrong and does talk to us. Agreed Although, if the loss is as someone posted a few up, I could understand if take the OP a day or two out of game to regain his composure. --
Shuan Jedai Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:22:00 - [113] Found the killboard link for the kill. here
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:29:00 - [114] Originally by: Shuan Jedai Found the killboard link for the kill. here <sigh> Im not going to get into the whole moving things in a shuttle thing. What really gets my goat though is having all the eggs in one basket. --
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:01:00 - [115] Yeh I really hope for Feyloan's sake that this is a fake. We only have a small amount invested but really to move 10.5 billion isk worth of goods in a 7,000 isk ship with a character that likely has the default 800,000 skill points, WHILST being on autopilot or AFK. This is why I won't be investing in a lot of the newer corporations. The trust thing I can take the chance with, but I feel these new people aren't valuing the isk as if it were their own. They see it as a windfall and make stupid decisions. It's like RL where your parents buy you your first car, you don't really respect it until you have had to work your ass off to buy another car yourself. It really should be the complete opposite with public people. You shouldn't put less effort in because you didn't earn the money. You should put more effort in because other people trusted you with it, and it is their money. Tree is right above as well with the all eggs in one basket thing. So harcore mistakes: 1) 10.5b worth of blueprints in one ship 2) Ship valued at 8,000 isk 3) Person either on autopilot or AFK. This is known as there is no way someone could scan and attack that shuttle if it had a pilot at the wheel warping to zero. A smartbomb attack sure, but this was a stealth bomber Anyway, will wait for response but I have already written this off. Very disapointing as I had hoped Feyloan would really shine with his business. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:03:00 - [116] Wow. Is there confirmation they weren't BPCs though? Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:27:00 - [117] I was wanting to wait until at least tomorrow to post something, but I do at least owe that to everyone. I would ask people to not speculate about circumstance for now, and as Treelox so rightly posted, I think I need a day or two for composure's sake, and to think how I will salvage this. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:38:00 - [118] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal I was wanting to wait until at least tomorrow to post something, but I do at least owe that to everyone. I would ask people to not speculate about circumstance for now, and as Treelox so rightly posted, I think I need a day or two for composure's sake, and to think how I will salvage this. Thank you for acknowledging there is an issue, and I understand your need to take a day or 2 to focus your thoughts as to a course of action. Just dont let that time of meditation extend to long or the pitchforks will be sharpened and the torches handed out. That is not a threat, just an observation based on previous events in this forum. --
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:43:00 - [119] A shuttle Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:45:00 - [120] begins to sharpen a pitchfork or three either way

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:56:00 - [121] Originally by: Treelox Just dont let that time of meditation extend to long or the pitchforks will be sharpened and the torches handed out. That is not a threat, just an observation based on previous events in this forum. I do not want to come back without a few options, I am not a person who presents a problem without solutions. To your observation, I would not deserve any different, but give me a day or two to get my head around things. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Na'hkin Oaks Pro-Trade Industries Inc	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:56:00 - [122] Originally by: Ishina Fel begins to sharpen a pitchfork or three either way
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:04:00 - [123] I am stuck between my disgust for your overwhelming stupidity and my admiration for your fortitude and perseverance in difficult times. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
ProudGallenteCitizen	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:07:00 - [124] Don't hesitate to ask for help.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:20:00 - [125] Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 25/11/2007 18:25:30 Originally by: Ramblin Man I am stuck between my disgust for your overwhelming stupidity and my admiration for your fortitude and perseverance in difficult times. Edit: But... there's no sense crying over spilt milk when it's running into the carpet. Here's hoping you come up with something. (Still though, christ* that was dumb)* Thank you for your disgust, if there are ideas, I am willing to listen, pm me or convo me. However, you are also not a shareholder. They are welcome to take whatever they like out on me, the general public can wait for a day or two, this is chaos enough already. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:27:00 - [126] Fair enough. You aren't answerable to me. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:27:00 - [127] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Originally by: Ramblin Man I am stuck between my disgust for your overwhelming stupidity and my admiration for your fortitude and perseverance in difficult times. Edit: But... there's no sense crying over spilt milk when it's running into the carpet. Here's hoping you come up with something. (Still though, christ* that was dumb)* Thank you for your disgust, I asked for ideas, I see none, and you are also not a shareholder, they are welcome to take whatever they like out on me, the general public can wait for a day or two, this is chaos enough already. Interesting tact to take, hostility may not be the best route Bakimi. Though feel free to tell me off like you did to Ramblin. It's not chaos. You lost 5 BPO's and let someone else be the one to inform shareholders of it. Deal with the situation. No one else can give you ideas without knowing what assets you still do/do not have. Lay out the facts if you want ideas. Either way, you either have to decide to continue with whatever BPO's you still have (if you still have any) or you can decide to liquidate what you still have and pay back at least a tiny bit of investor money. Heck, I suppose you could try to raise more capital. Maybe if you promise to fly non-shuttles non-afk you would have a chance to get it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:32:00 - [128] The guy's had a difficult time. I didn't take it as unreasonable hostility given the content of my post -- so no need to characterize it as "he's going crazy on Ramblin." He's taking it a lot better than I would, and I'm interested to see what he pulls out of this. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:36:00 - [129] Originally by: Shadarle Interesting tact to take, hostility may not be the best route Bakimi. Though feel free to tell me off like you did to Ramblin. Fine, I felt what I wrote was a little harsh and edited it accordingly, he has replied. You are also not a shareholder, so in essence all I am doing now is wasting time answering to you, but hey, your ego, right? Originally by: Shadarle It's not chaos. You lost 5 BPO's and let someone else be the one to inform shareholders of it. Deal with the situation. I would call that situation chaotic at best, I am trying to come up with ideas, unfortunately this takes time. Also, the person informing did so rather suddenly after the actual event, sooner than I could actually get out of eve to post anything, read into that whatever you like, they were more than just "in local". Originally by: Shadarle No one else can give you ideas without knowing what assets you still do/do not have. Lay out the facts if you want ideas. Good, then also, if I am the one coming up with ideas, please wait with criticism for a couple of days, THANK YOU. Originally by: Shadarle Maybe if you promise to fly non-shuttles non-afk you would have a chance to get it. I asked a few posts ago to please leave all speculation for now, and that is all the above is. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:44:00 - [130] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Originally by: Shadarle Interesting tact to take, hostility may not be the best route Bakimi. Though feel free to tell me off like you did to Ramblin. Fine, I felt what I wrote was a little harsh and edited it accordingly, he has replied. You are also not a shareholder, so in essence all I am doing now is wasting time answering to you, but hey, your ego, right? Originally by: Shadarle It's not chaos. You lost 5 BPO's and let someone else be the one to inform shareholders of it. Deal with the situation. I would call that situation chaotic at best, I am trying to come up with ideas, unfortunately this takes time. Also, the person informing did so rather suddenly after the actual event, sooner than I could actually get out of eve to post anything, read into that whatever you like, they were more than just "in local". Originally by: Shadarle No one else can give you ideas without knowing what assets you still do/do not have. Lay out the facts if you want ideas. Good, then also, if I am the one coming up with ideas, please wait with criticism for a couple of days, THANK YOU. Originally by: Shadarle Maybe if you promise to fly non-shuttles non-afk you would have a chance to get it. I asked a few posts ago to please leave all speculation for now, and that is all the above is. You say you wanted ideas, I gave 3 of them. You ignore that and tell me to shove off. If you don't want people to give ideas, don't ask for them. Don't attack others for not giving them when you refuse to give the required info for giving them. If you don't want people to assume things then provide the facts. Until you give your side there is only one side to see. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained

Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:46:00 - [131] FACT: Freighter BPOs were lost. FACT: Contingency plans are being evaluated. shrugs Anything else is forum drama. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:50:00 - [132] Originally by: Shadarle You say you wanted ideas, I gave 3 of them. Please post all 3 as a list, and no, I do not count "Deal with the Situation" as an idea, as it does not help aforementioned situation. Originally by: Shadarle You ignore that and tell me to shove off. If you don't want people to give ideas, don't ask for them. I did not ignore that, I didn't see any, I saw pre-reqs, nothing more. Also, please copy in where I told you to shove off, I asked you to be patient and wait, due to you not being a shareholder. Originally by: Shadarle If you don't want people to assume things then provide the facts. Until you give your side there is only one side to see. All in due time, the facts will be provided. I have asked for a little time, shareholders can lynch me, the general public doesn't have that right. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Amandrace Minmatar Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:56:00 - [133] Originally by: Ishina Fel begins to sharpen a pitchfork or three either way really hope that's not 98 mil i'll never see again; this was my first time investing, and 98m is alot of work for me to scramble together as a miner. is it irreplaceable, hardly. would it **** me off though, you can be sure.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:02:00 - [134] Edited by: Shadarle on 25/11/2007 19:02:12 Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Please post all 3 as a list, and no, I do not count "Deal with the Situation" as an idea, as it does not help aforementioned situation. Seriously? You couldn't see the 3 without me listing them? Quote: It's not chaos. You lost 5 BPO's and let someone else be the one to inform shareholders of it. Deal with the situation. No one else can give you ideas without knowing what assets you still do/do not have. Lay out the facts if you want ideas. Either way, you either have to decide to continue with whatever BPO's you still have (if you still have any) or you can decide to liquidate what you still have and pay back at least a tiny bit of investor money. Heck, I suppose you could try to raise more capital. Maybe if you promise to fly non-shuttles non-afk you would have a chance to get it. But just to make sure you can see all three I'll also put them in list form as well. 1. continue with whatever BPO's you still have (if you still have any) 2. you can decide to liquidate what you still have and pay back at least a tiny bit of investor money 3. you could try to raise more capital Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:15:00 - [135] Originally by: Shadarle 1. continue with whatever BPO's you still have (if you still have any) Based on what I remember of remaining assets, there would be a POS and a few advanced labs left, all bpo's would have popped. Quote: 2. you can decide to liquidate what you still have and pay back at least a tiny bit of investor money This might be our option. Looking at about 8-10% of our investment back. Quote: 3. you could try to raise more capital Dunno, he had a hard time raising the first batch, and after something like this occuring I don't like his chances of getting more isk. Plus his original business plan would basically be pushing it to meet a 5-7 percent margin. If we double the IPO, then you have to meet basically double the repayment which isn't possible on these freightor bpo's. I really don't see a whole lot of options. You can spend the next year or however long it takes working back people's money, that would work. Dunno but it's a really bad spot to be in at this point. I would chill a bit on the defensive side, Shadarle had some good points in there and as much as I don't like to say it, those shuttle remarks will be coming for weeks to come if not months. But as Rambling Man said above, props to you for coming back and trying to figure out a way to resolve the issue, it wasn't really expected but is great to see. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:32:00 - [136] I have 100% the same beliefs as you on those 3 points Ricdic. But I was just trying to lay out what I felt were the options to help Bakimi as he is obviously (and understandably) a bit frazzled by this. If someone has more options that would work, put them forward, but it seems those 3 are the main three options. Unfortunately I only see 2 as a real option as well. Declare it a loss, pay back what you can, apologize profusely and salvage what can be salvaged. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:42:00 - [137] OK, fine, to at least answer those three points, although I really did want to collate idas instead of doing one at a time: 1) Continue with Assets Due to the pessimistic calculation on my part, we could continue with 2 BPOs and a POS 2) Liquidate 3,728,991 is the total wallet size, means 298,240 per share, or just under 30% 3) Raise more capital This was suggested in my Mailing list, to halve the value of shares and raise the remainng. This gives a 50% loss and would also halve the earnings per share as a result, so for original investors it would be somewhere between 2,5 and 4% per month, by my standards, unacceptable, I would rather lynch myself. OK, this being said, I have a couple more ideas I am now trying to see the feasability. I had thought of the three above, they are the easy options. Let's look at the facts, at the moment we have a lot of **ed off people (including me), and yes, I WILL GIVE EACH INVESTOR THE CHANCE OF POD KILLING ME, no matter what the outcome (yes, we british never lose at least some sense of humour). So I want to get the number of **ed off people down to a minimum, somehow. By the way, working to pay back would require 12,5 billion, mining in a hulk at a conservative 6 mil an hour, this would come to a total of 2083 hours of mining, or 86 days nonstop (not including downtime). ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:54:00 - [138] Put the three options to a vote, or poll the top 10 shareholders for their ideas and then put those ideas (plus the last two listed above) to a vote. You've got a lot of people who have put money into this, and you owe it to them to give them options. In my opinion, this is an internal matter and should be handled as such.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:02:00 - [139] Originally by: Daeva Vios Put the three options to a vote, or poll the top 10 shareholders for their ideas and then put those ideas (plus the last two listed above) to a vote. You've got a lot of people who have put money into this, and you owe it to them to give them options. In my opinion, this is an internal matter and should be handled as such. It WAS an internal matter, and I very much wanted to deal with it that way, unfortunately, a person who was involved int he issue decided to post an overly sarcastic posting into here. Too late to deal internally, which is very unfortunate. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
May Shiko	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:02:00 - [140] I don't own any shares, but there are also other options. Regardless, it's better to fail than to scam. Yes, people will remember how this came about, but how you respond is also a possiblity. Now everyone invested in this IPO under certain conditions, but there are quite a few ways to generate modest returns by changing your field of operations. It may very well be worthwhile to explore other options available with the resources available (2 freighter BPOs can be liquidated for a fair amount of cash, and there are many ways to make tons of money off even that little) Just some handy suggestions, there's always trade, manufacture, alternative research. But you will have to swing it past your shareholders.

Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:46:00 - [141] Really a beyond careless mistake. Never assume safety in EVE, no matter what the sec status of the systems. Especially when you're carrying billions of cargo in a ship I could sneeze at with an Ibis and blow up. This is a real rookie mistake, usually one only reserved for new players who've just tossed everything they've worked for over the course of 4 months into an Iteron and lazily Autopilot it to Jita. I'd expect far far more care from someone entrusted with billions of other people's ISK. I'd never ever move anything of any value in less than a Covert Ops ship, nothing would ever be able to even think of getting a scan in of you, the only thing you'd ever have to worry about is very bad timing on a high sec smartbomber and land on a gate before CONCORD got to him... unlikely... and certainly not when I wasn't glued to my screen from undock to dock. You can say I'm not an investor and that's fine, but I will still throw this out there for anyone who's currently or thinking of running any kind of operation with anyone elses ISK, or their own, for that matter. Do not make this same unnecessary and completely avoidable mistake. One thing that strikes me as odd, though... random person in Local not only saw what happened, but knew what was in the wreck of you shuttle, and knew enough to come here and report it to the community? Have to wonder what the chances are of something like that happening. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Wration Caldari GeoTech	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:24:00 - [142] As on of the top shareholders i cant say anything else that this was a thought out scam by you, atleast i didnt invest all my money in you and can manage fine without this 1 bill. My bet is that this was planed long ago with your friend or even your main char doing the killing and selling these BPs for some good nice cash. I wouldnt want to be in your shoes tbh as there seems to be some folks that know your home location. Someone has to do alot of work around here and its not gonna be me for sure...
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 03:20:00 - [143] Just wait and see what he comes up with Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:17:00 - [144] Originally by: Wration Someone has to do alot of work around here and its not gonna be me for sure... WTF is that supposed to mean? For the record are you referring to his "home location" in game or out? Even if this was a scam mentioning his RL home is rather disgusting (if that is what you meant)..
Wration Caldari GeoTech	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:28:00 - [145] Originally by: Erimisha Originally by: Wration Someone has to do alot of work around here and its not gonna be me for sure... WTF is that supposed to mean? For the record are you referring to his "home location" in game or out? Even if this was a scam mentioning his RL home is rather disgusting (if that is what you meant).. Just refering to what people have said earlier in this post about knowing hes werebouts , i would never myself do anything as this is just a game , but im sure i wouldnt want to be that guy if it turns out that he has scammed alot of people as some players take this game to seriously.
Slasher Arcana	Posted - 2007.11.26 06:56:00 - [146] As a minority shareholder I would have liked that news of the matter came out fast from the CEO instead of a 3rd-party, resulting in speculation and worry from the public and shareholders. Like all shareholders of any investment, one must be ready to accept losses when taking risks. If the first thing anyone does during times like these is to bring out the pitchforks and torches I recommend they stop entrusting their money to other people. But if this was a well-planned scam I salute the involved parties. Moving forward, I'd like to see the following being proposed/offered: 1) A cash-out plan. If the CEO needs to use his main's wallet make it so. 2) A stick-with-it plan with a solid schedule. Concrete plans to move forward with what's left and stop wallowing over spilt milk. Look beyond what you had planned. 3bil into 12bil isn't that difficult.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.26 07:12:00 - [147] Originally by: Wration As on of the top shareholders i cant say anything else that this was a thought out scam by you, atleast i didnt invest all my money in you and can manage fine without this 1 bill. My bet is that this was planed long ago with your friend or even your main char doing the killing and selling these BPs for some good nice cash. I wouldnt want to be in your shoes tbh as there seems to be some folks that know your home location. Someone has to do alot of work around here and its not gonna be me for sure... Actually, this would be about the worst thought out scam in history. Look at RHCRP as a current example, just ran away with the isk. I got blown up and lost close to 8,5 billion, although if you are accusing me of selling the BPOs that survived, then let's make that 5 Billion destroyed. If I wanted to scam, I would not have blown up 5 Billion of the investment, much less come here and tried to reassure people that I will come up with a solution, plus updating on the situation. Although your confusing game and rl really does make me wonder, as the person who has posted to being a RL Friend is currently pretty ****ed off too, but hey, who cares... Again, and I honestly do not know how many times to ask this... PLEASE JUST GIVE ME A DAY OR TWO ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 07:18:00 - [148] Yeh we have been looking into alternative ways to resolve this situation in game. Nothing else will be mentioned on the matter, except that we have been looking at options. They may or may not come to fruition but let's let him have his 1-2 days Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:21:00 - [149] Terrible news. As a shareholder in this program, I would think we could give the manager a few days to re-think his options. It's not my place to flex my e-peen or throw insults around. I have a vested interest in this and look forward to hearing more from the investment manager. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| Learning to Trade
Kara Rhane Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.	Posted - 2007.11.26 10:52:00 - [150] Edited by: Kara Rhane on 26/11/2007 10:52:50 As an investor in this I am a little disappointed, but not angry. As a fellow business owner/operator, I'm sympathetic. Had our own corp expansion nuked in a hauler going 23 jumps through empire with a shadow medium tower in the hold and something like 55 million in BPO's. All gone, that feeling sucked. Pushed back our expansion a good month. I invested in this with the idea of making ISK, is this a set back? Yes. Is it the end of all things and zomgwtfbbq time? No. Your options can be expanded a bit. Funny enough I thought of doing an IPO for this EXACT same business model, but after the rash of scams/losses the last week and the 'feel' of the market I decided to keep it all internal rather then worry about all that extra stuff. It's one of the reasons I invested in you and still hope it comes out good for you. Now with that said, lets give you some options: Modified Liquidation - If people trust you, and you come up with a good plan to turn this around, let people that want out, out. Those that wouldn't mind 'letting it ride' can stay, you can then give those people that are willing to get out now the option of taking back 30% of their investment. (at a clear loss) Or they can take a IOU for 3 to 5 months down the road at the projected return you suggested initially. This would give you time to use the isk (without monthly payout) to quickly build funds in trading/manufacturing/other ways. Quicktime repayment short term paper - Not sure exactly if this is the term I'm looking for but if you go into another means of making ISK (trading/manufacturing) you can selectively begin to pay off each investor in order of how quickly they want to get out. Some investors might want to get out right away, and you can give them 30% probably within a month. Some might want 2 months, where they'd get say 55%, others might want to wait 6 months and would get say 125+%. It rewards those willing to stick to it, and still gives the option to get isk to those few that want their isk back right away. They might think they can do better with this ISK, even after losing 70% of it in their own hands. Find People willing to invest in 'junk bonds' - I'm very much not sure how this last one would be worded out, but I'll give it a go and let one of the people a little more knowledgeable flesh it out. Basically you find out if there are any investors that would like to act as a purchaser of the lowered shares at the lowered rate and maybe with a little extra isk added on to help get your funds up a bit to begin working this out. So say shares are worth 30% of value, the purchasers buy them at 40% to 50% of value. This gives you 20% extra on those that want out, to 'play' with at making isk. Read Next Part to combine this step with the next if feasible. Request/Purchase Advice from people offering: - Your already asking for ideas from others, that's a great start. People that have said "there are plenty of ways to make ISK grow from 3 bill to 12 bill in a few short months" might be good to actively 'request' information from. There are dozens of ways to make loads of ISK in this game, some of them require tremendous amounts of ISK, some don't. Some take tremendous amounts of TIME, some don't. However if you have alot of time, and someone is willing to impart some advice (mineral market playing, moon reactions, research service, etc. etc) I believe you really can make this isk back as well as turn a very tidy profit for everyone involved in 3 to 4 months. I believe your time, and willingness to 'work at it' will be your biggest issues. Give it 2 hours a night, and yeah, you'll have that 10th and 11th digit appear in your wallet quite quickly. People have to make the shift from buying 75% your business plan and 25% you, to almost 90% you and 10% your business knoledge/willingness. Hope it helps. -Kara ***** Rhane's Research and Development LabsÖ Click to search our Ammo's, Missiles, and Drone BPO sets.

Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:22:00 - [151] Definitely some good ideas. TBH, the biggest thing you have going for you is your swift reply here. You're showing that you're willing to communicate and consider options. Though your reactions are less than dazzling, I suppose it's understandable. I'm most concerned with the fact that you treated our money as though it was worth less to you than yours. Every precaution should have been taken, and you used the #1 most dangerous way to transport billions of isk in goods. It was just plain stupid.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:26:00 - [152] Any chance of an IRC discussion between shareholders and Bakimi? Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| Learning to Trade
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:54:00 - [153] Big big thank you to Kara, I like the thinking, and those ideas have definately been taken on board and probably combined with other plans to make all round more effective. Originally by: Daeva Vios TBH, the biggest thing you have going for you is your swift reply here. You're showing that you're willing to communicate and consider options. Though your reactions are less than dazzling, I suppose it's understandable. I'm most concerned with the fact that you treated our money as though it was worth less to you than yours. Every precaution should have been taken, and you used the #1 most dangerous way to transport billions of isk in goods. It was just plain stupid. As said, I was wanting to wait a day or two to reply at all, but that would simply be the wrong attitude to the shareholders, and only protecting myself whilst others get more and more concerned. I'm getting nothing short of what I deserve so far, because it was completely stupid, I have not denied this, however noone is more angry about this than me, I can guarantee you. To your statement about the ISK. I value time greater than ISK, and although I do have a considerable investment in ISK in this venture myself, I have put a lot more time into it. Fact is, I made a mistake, this does not however mean I do not value other's input into this venture any more or less than mine, as my planned solutions will show. As to my reactions (so far) being less than dazzling, I have given the numbers and calculations to the standard 3 solutions. However, I would not be me if I chose a standard solution, because noone wants to accept a 70% loss, which is why I am brooding on more ideas. I promise this will not take too much longer. Originally by: Astorothe Any chance of an IRC discussion between shareholders and Bakimi? Sorry, I do not use IRC, however we can hold an in-game discussion or over msn, I am trying to answer all questions posed here as quickly as possible. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 13:58:00 - [154] Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Amandrace Minmatar Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.26 15:54:00 - [155] Originally by: Ricdic Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc I'll try contacting you in-game.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.26 16:39:00 - [156] Originally by: Ricdic Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc Simply thinking that you might be inundated with offers, I feel obliged to tell you that the 1,000 shares per person limit still remains. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:58:00 - [157] Edited by: Shadarle on 26/11/2007 17:58:20 Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Originally by: Ricdic Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc Simply thinking that you might be inundated with offers, I feel obliged to tell you that the 1,000 shares per person limit still remains. How exactly is this enforceable unless you were to pay dividends manually in the future? He seemed to be giving you a fairly graceful way out of some of this mess... Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:07:00 - [158] Share limits are out the window once those shares leave the corp wallet. It's unenforceable and there's really no reason to enforce it either. It's perfectly understand to limit the amount of shares purchased during the IPO but shares are part of the free market, you can't control them.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:15:00 - [159] Yeh the idea at this point is to try and limit the Wylker affect. I have a fair bit of spare personal isk available so can take a risk with that buyback. Obviously it's all hinged on your success or failure Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:44:00 - [160] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Simply thinking that you might be inundated with offers, I feel obliged to tell you that the 1,000 shares per person limit still remains. Shouldn't you be thankful for any assistance out of this mess of your own making?

Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.26 23:48:00 - [161] I would think you would welcome Ricdic attemp at bailing you out by giving us investors an opportunity to only lose 20% of our investment rather than 70% as has been projected. Instead you quote rules that you created to foster investment by multiple people including new investors (i bet they are excited about the investing side of EVE now) that have no bearing on what happens after the initial shares are sold. If I was ricdic (and I know he won't do this) I would withdraw the offer and watch you sway in the wind. Fortunately I only invested 100mil so I am not contemplating character suicide or anything but I am interested what great idea you have to salvage this situation.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.27 00:20:00 - [162] ok many pages went by and i take it this turned bad? what happened? Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.27 00:37:00 - [163] Originally by: northwesten ok many pages went by and i take it this turned bad? what happened? The OP lost 5 Freighter BPOs and a 7000 ISK shuttle while being afk piloting at a gate in empire.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.27 00:49:00 - [164] Quote: Instead you quote rules that you created to foster investment by multiple people including new investors (i bet they are excited about the investing side of EVE now) that have no bearing on what happens after the initial shares are sold. As someone who imposed limits of how much someone could purchase during my launch, I think it's a bit silly to enforce people never owning more than 1000 shares after initial launch. In order to distribute the shares initially amongst many peeps its good, but from there on it's anybodies fair game, and I think it's crazy (and impossible) to enforce people never owning more than 1000 shares, and more importantly it has no effect on your business operation. Ironically, (and I'm not suggesting anything, i just think it'd be damn funny) if Bakimi was an alt of ricdics, and he's now collecting back shares at a fraction of the initial price in order to "wash things over cleanly" and earn 20% of the total investment Improve Market Competition!
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.27 00:55:00 - [165] Originally by: Erimisha Originally by: northwesten ok many pages went by and i take it this turned bad? what happened? The OP lost 5 Freighter BPOs and a 7000 ISK shuttle while being afk piloting at a gate in empire. umm afk? freaking hell! I hope they didn't get it Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services
Ina Mina	Posted - 2007.11.27 00:56:00 - [166] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Ironically, (and I'm not suggesting anything, i just think it'd be damn funny) if Bakimi was an alt of ricdics, and he's now collecting back shares at a fraction of the initial price in order to "wash things over cleanly" and earn 20% of the total investment - would be kind of a waste to throw away 5 freighter BPOs just to set up such a..umm, scheme, wouldnt it? (yes, the kill was real, and the killer was very happy indeed that he managed to loot two of the prints)
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.27 01:00:00 - [167] Originally by: northwesten umm afk? freaking hell! I hope they didn't get it Apparently 3 BPOs were destroyed and 2 looted by the killer.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:43:00 - [168] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Ironically, (and I'm not suggesting anything, i just think it'd be damn funny) if Bakimi was an alt of ricdics, and he's now collecting back shares at a fraction of the initial price in order to "wash things over cleanly" and earn 20% of the total investment Haha that is awesome, but no I am not that smart. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:52:00 - [169] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Ironically, (and I'm not suggesting anything, i just think it'd be damn funny) if Bakimi was an alt of ricdics, and he's now collecting back shares at a fraction of the initial price in order to "wash things over cleanly" and earn 20% of the total investment Haha that is awesome, but no I am not that smart. Sly like a fox comes to mind! You are playing dumb just to pull off such hoaxes! Mwahahaha Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.27 04:00:00 - [170] I knew it. It's a Ricsploitz! Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| Learning to Trade

FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.27 05:11:00 - [171] Would the 1000 shares per person limit not be an issue if ricdics just kept 1k shares on each of several different alts? If so - doesn't that make a mockery of the whole idea? If not, how was this 1k shares limit planned to be enforced anyway? I can understand limiting share purchase at IPO time - i did the same myself. But thereafter, attempting to restrict share ownership is unenforcable and pointless. Note: I hold no shares in this venture so have no axe to grind either way. Just seems very wierd to try to use an unenforcable restriction to prevent something which would be of benefit to some shareholders.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.27 06:16:00 - [172] Yeh I offered the buyback because I am fairly confident in Feyloan's skills to resolve the situation. Obviously other's aren't and I don't really want this thread to end up like Wylker's one. As I said when I first bought into it I do see the potential for Feyloan in this industry. He made a fatal mistake but the true testament will be seeing if he can recover from it. Just coming back here and looking for resolutions shows that he doesn't want a tarnished reputation and my chats with him on msn and in-game lead me to believe he is going above and beyond the call of duty to try and fix the problem. As was seen by Riethe, I could be wrong again which is why I am only buying back at 80%. Unfortunately the Riethe scam made me step back and look at those around me in a whole new light, people I have known and trusted with billions for years with me having to double question the trust etc. It's a good and bad thing but I hate having to do it. Anyway yeh I could just buyback on all different toons it wouldn't matter and isn't enforcable. If anything I would see the Feyloan restriction of 1000 on me as a way to try and limit any fallout I recieve if he cannot resolve the situation. Either way, I didn't get into the financial position I am in now by not taking risks. CCP made this game with Risk Vs Reward in mind, and even though they have had near zero hand in the MD portion of Eve over the years, Risk Vs Reward is still very much an important factor. My reward if my belief in Feyloan is correct, is that those 5% minimum repayments go up to 6.25% minimum if Feyloan recovers and continues to meet repayments. If not and he liquidates then I get a higher amount back. Liquidation at a loss or complete failure/scam is the adverse end of the scale. Time will tell but I can afford the loss if it occurs. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.27 08:04:00 - [173] I will explain why I mentioned the cap. Two Reasons: 1) Ricdic has slightly more knowledge because I sought his advice on not-standard solutions 2) It negates the main idea behind Kara Rhane's Idea I wanted to implement with buyback & Resale Ecpect an announcement within 24 Hours now btw. pending one issue being solved. I think the tone of some people will change drastically when that announcement is made. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.27 08:10:00 - [174] Insider trading 4tw. Sell me your shares under priced. Nah, I just know what he is trying to accomplish. If all that fails then I lose a lot more than the 20% discount for doing this buyback Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.27 13:49:00 - [175] I ran this past corp mates and we decided to pull out - taking up Ricdic's offer of 80%. Best of luck - will be keeping a close eye on developments - good luck. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| Learning to Trade
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.27 17:26:00 - [176] Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 27/11/2007 17:27:14 From the Praetoria Holdings Mailing List, posted by me: OK, I will be posting the saving plan tonight on the forums, at some point, so don't complain if it's midnight and it is not there. I will accept this plan as being 100% accepted, due to the alternative being a 30% payout of original investment. This is very important for you, the investors, so please read the posting. Thank you ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:16:00 - [177] Edited by: Shadarle on 27/11/2007 18:16:49 I wonder if this involves a petition asking for BPO's back from CCP due to the death being caused by a crash. Thus refunding the 3 BPO's that were destroyed. This would of course be the best way to recover easily and would have taken a few days perhaps. Of course somehow getting the 2 back that were taken by some means is of course another avenue that might have worked. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:27:00 - [178] Originally by: Shadarle Of course somehow getting the 2 back that were taken by some means is of course another avenue that might have worked. Couldn't think of a way of doing this so far apart from purchasing new ones, any ideas? ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:30:00 - [179] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Originally by: Shadarle Of course somehow getting the 2 back that were taken by some means is of course another avenue that might have worked. Couldn't think of a way of doing this so far apart from purchasing new ones, any ideas? Depends who it was that killed you of course. Probably too late at this point anyhow. I honestly can't tell you as I have 0 clue what actually happened as you've never explained it. It's all about who got you and how much you can find out about them. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:39:00 - [180] Originally by: Shadarle Depends who it was that killed you of course. Probably too late at this point anyhow. I honestly can't tell you as I have 0 clue what actually happened as you've never explained it. It's all about who got you and how much you can find out about them. OK, well considering who it was I felt that route would not be worth it anyhow. As to what happened, I have my reasons for not posting it so far, as i do for asking not to speculate, the only known fact is I was in a shuttle, nothing more. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company

Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:36:00 - [181] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal OK, well considering who it was I felt that route would not be worth it anyhow. As to what happened, I have my reasons for not posting it so far, as i do for asking not to speculate, the only known fact is I was in a shuttle, nothing more. Ok all that statement did was fuel more speculation about you and what happened. Don't you think that since it was our isk that went up in flames we should probably know what happened, IN DETAIL? You've been pretty good at communication since the incident other than about the incident. Email all the shareholders or something with the info, including who, when and where; so that we can form our own decisions about what we want to do next.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:58:00 - [182] Originally by: Atherin Gaius Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal OK, well considering who it was I felt that route would not be worth it anyhow. As to what happened, I have my reasons for not posting it so far, as i do for asking not to speculate, the only known fact is I was in a shuttle, nothing more. Ok all that statement did was fuel more speculation about you and what happened. Don't you think that since it was our isk that went up in flames we should probably know what happened, IN DETAIL? You've been pretty good at communication since the incident other than about the incident. Email all the shareholders or something with the info, including who, when and where; so that we can form our own decisions about what we want to do next. yer i agree here like who attacked you etc? I mean if you going to say i lost bpo's and i was ganked in shuttle and refuse to say then i see this another scam. Also i still think its weird to travel afk in a shuttle with 5 BPO. I mean with all the posts about people getting ganked. For some reason my gut feeling this just bull anyhow Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:31:00 - [183] My speculation is that he has been waiting for CCP before replying. I would bet he filed a petition saying it was a client bug that caused him to crash... and he came back to a pod and lost BPO's. If this is the case he can get the lost ones back. But if this wasn't the case and he still filed the petition he wouldn't want to talk about it until they had refunded the BPO's. Though even if it really happened it is better to wait on CCP before you say anything about it. It's just a guess though. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Corvac Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:34:00 - [184] The guy isnt scamming, it was a guy in my alliance that killed him. (And he was very happy with the loot, I might add) Killboard links arent allowed on the forums AFAIK, but it should be easy enough to find if you really need proof.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:41:00 - [185] Originally by: Corvac The guy isnt scamming, it was a guy in my alliance that killed him. (And he was very happy with the loot, I might add) Killboard links arent allowed on the forums AFAIK, but it should be easy enough to find if you really need proof. Well I can attest to the fact that the route is often camped by s***rdly stealth bombers looking for easy kills and loot. Cheeky bugger even convoed me, after failing to pop me, to ask about my claw setup! (Yes I was afk, who cares?) Taikun's Lost Bet**
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:42:00 - [186] Originally by: Shadarle My speculation is that he has been waiting for CCP before replying. I would bet he filed a petition saying it was a client bug that caused him to crash... and he came back to a pod and lost BPO's. If this is the case he can get the lost ones back. But if this wasn't the case and he still filed the petition he wouldn't want to talk about it until they had refunded the BPO's. Though even if it really happened it is better to wait on CCP before you say anything about it. It's just a guess though. Spot on, and now I can talk about it. I did not want to give details of a petition away before I had an answer. Unfortunately, it came back negative, irrespective of what happened to my client, so let's move on. I am finalising details, but this much, no shareholder will loose a single ISK, in fact, they will gain. Just for the record, anyone wanting the kill mail can have it, I will not post it on the forums. Regards, Bakimi aka Feyloan ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:48:00 - [187] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Originally by: Shadarle My speculation is that he has been waiting for CCP before replying. I would bet he filed a petition saying it was a client bug that caused him to crash... and he came back to a pod and lost BPO's. If this is the case he can get the lost ones back. But if this wasn't the case and he still filed the petition he wouldn't want to talk about it until they had refunded the BPO's. Though even if it really happened it is better to wait on CCP before you say anything about it. It's just a guess though. Spot on, and now I can talk about it. I did not want to give details of a petition away before I had an answer. Unfortunately, it came back negative, irrespective of what happened to my client, so let's move on. I am finalising details, but this much, no shareholder will loose a single ISK, in fact, they will gain. Just for the record, anyone wanting the kill mail can have it, I will not post it on the forums. Regards, Bakimi aka Feyloan I sure hope you used the excuse that you crashed and thus wanted your stuff back, not that you had investors who were mad Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Herodian Minmatar Gladius Noctem	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:52:00 - [188] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Just for the record, anyone wanting the kill mail can have it, I will not post it on the forums. Regards, Bakimi aka Feyloan For the record i do... evemail me
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:08:00 - [189] Originally by: Shadarle I sure hope you used the excuse that you crashed and thus wanted your stuff back, not that you had investors who were mad In fact, I appealed to their logical sense before their emotional sense. Both failed. So, we tick that box, and move on as of now, plan is following this post. Killmail has been sent by the way. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:32:00 - [190] Dear Forums, Dear Shareholders, Praetoria Holdings has obviously had a tough birth. Yes, I made a HUGE mistake, I am man enough to admit this. I do however counter any allegations of maltreating other people's isk as not worth as much as mine. I have also invested in this operation, not only ISK, but a hell of a lot of time and effort. I ***ed a bottle of bubbly to celebrate when I had sold out, anyone who knows me will be able to confirm that I see Praetoria as my baby, my idea, and a way to enjoy Eve even more. This solution gives a great deal more than just 30% liquidation value. In fact it offers 100% to be raised again, and to continue this BPO as originally planned!!!!!The only difference is the obvious delay in starting (SORRY!!!) I go by the value that one ed off person is better than a couple dozen ed off people. In layman's terms, I am sacrificing myself for the greater good. 8,775,009,000 ISK was lost as a result of the gank. At 220 mill a GTC, that comes to just under 40. Rub your eyes please at this point, because yes, I am purchasing 40 30-Day GTCs** to cover the loss caused by my carelessness/stupidity. Calculate it to your local currency please, and then put me up for "IPO Holder of the Year" where Riethe comes last place of course... To the further Operation of this Venture: The buyback stays the same, 90% until March with one weeks notice. Changes are as follows: C-R-A Towers will be providing the facilities for Praetoria to do the research, rather than own POS. This will save the operation a considerable overhead per month This enables us to purchase a 7th BPO, which will be Obelisk, to make profit margins higher than original plan. Originally, each sale was going to be 80% straight to investors, with 20% going to corp to cover costs, and an extra dividend at end of month. This will change as follows: The split will be 85% to 15%, however there will be no extra dividend at end of month, the extra profit will be used to build up isk for share buybacks. If there are any serious concerns, please voice these, however I cannot imagine the shareholders revolting at this due to: Increased Revenue Decreased Costs If there are concerns, these will be answered, and in the event of multiple shareholders showing wrinkles, then there will be a vote on the changes. Regards, Bakimi aka Feyloan P.S.: Call goes out to Shattered Crystal on Thursday. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:34:00 - [191] Oh yeah, and there will be a secure method of transportation arranged by Ricdic as part of the deal, aparently I'm not the best at it grumble ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ziberious Gallente Legio Victrix	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:39:00 - [192] Im not to pleased with the fact that your going to waste your RL money to pay us back. I'd rather you save the money and find another way instead of haulting your finances in RL before christmas. Just my opinion.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:40:00 - [193] I'd say it is a good idea overall even if I think your announcement was ill timed. You should've announced the solution after you succeeded. I can see alot of people low balling your gtc's because as they see it, you need them. Also, I think the plan fits the bill but is a horrible example of too much. It's a lot of cash to toss in like this imho but every man has the right to choose when to fall on his sword... and the choice of sword as well. Taikun's Lost Bet
ProudGallenteCitizen	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:50:00 - [194] Anyone telling you that you should not use the gtc for isk option really just wants to see your IPO fail because it would any other way. Good luck.
Norrec Vizheran	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:54:00 - [195] Either Feyloan has gone completely insane or he is greatly dedicated to this ipo. I wish he had looked for a less RL involved route out of this problem, but it's his life and i'll support him in any way i can .
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:54:00 - [196] If you can afford to do it, why not. Sometimes I fork out on GTC's for resale if I need an isk boost and don't feel like asking the public. This is basically the same thing (pretend CCP have put his wallet in negative 7 billion and it doesn't seem so bad). We have been chatting about this for a few days now and it was completely his decision. Not wanting to capitalise off his RL expenses I also have an express deal that when it comes time to shut down shop or buy out his corp, he buys my shares off me at 85% of initial value (as I done the buyback at 80% for others). My buyback offer still stands, and will rise to 98% once I have the secured freighter bpo's in the C-R-A corp hangar locked down with the EBANK stamp of secured approval. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:59:00 - [197] Eve will no longer be just a game if you do this and spend that sort of cash on GTCs. You're going to feel dirty for a long time :) But I admire your fortitude and honour in wanting to solve it. This is just the wrong way - that is my 2c of course. Good luck. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| GD for grown-ups
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:01:00 - [198] I'm surprised at the somewhat negative reaction Feyloan's got here. The man has shown some serious character putting RL cash behind his mouth, and I for one will be looking to now increase my 100m stake in him as a direct result. This is serious stuff, and those mocking it should reconsider the size of their balls. --- meh.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:04:00 - [199] Originally by: Astorothe Eve will no longer be just a game if you do this and spend that sort of cash on GTCs. You're going to feel dirty for a long time :) It's only money You guys make out like his kids will miss xmas because of this. I am not trying to devalue what he is doing as it is a lot. But think of this. He could: a) Cut his losses and lose his reputation b) Call failure and have no-one ever invest in him again c) Grind for the next year to try and sc*****isk together to repay investors d) Dig into a spare savings fund so he doesn't need to grind or lose his reputation. "Feel Dirty" is a little OTT imo. I feel dirty when my wife does the Xmas shopping and I find she forked out $1200 AUD on a few too many presents. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:11:00 - [200] I am impressed by your dedication to your investors. Not many CEO's would be willing to put in so much to recover from such a huge loss. If I am able to assist with off loading those GTC's for you, I would be happy to do what I can. Obviously, I still need to protect my own business plans, so no gaurentees. I have sent you an EveMail outlining what I would be able to do to assist you. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO

Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:21:00 - [201] Originally by: Ricdic "Feel Dirty" is a little OTT imo. I feel dirty when my wife does the Xmas shopping and I find she forked out $1200 AUD on a few too many presents. It was a joke - I thought you would have detected my dry sense of humour =) I personally would not put RL cash into GTCs for an IPO. I'm not saying he shouldnt, just that I wouldnt. I actually commended him on his committment to his investors. But the IPO is no longer for me and my corp thus we cashed out. But again, I wish it luck and will be watching with interest. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| GD for grown-ups
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:28:00 - [202] I am shocked by the sort of dedication you have to this IPO. Bravo is all I can say. I hope the rest of your investors see that this sort of dedication is a good thing. Ignore the one who are calling you names for it, imo. They're jealous they can't do this sort of thing themselves. I'm impressed, and I'll be hanging on for the long haul.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:38:00 - [203] I dont think anyones called him a name yet. We're all adults here, mostly, so chill guys. Some people need to read what is typed before hitting that reply button. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| GD for grown-ups
NeoTrade	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:36:00 - [204] I am impressed by your dedication, and it gets my "IPO CEO of the year" award :) But I will not allow you to do this if it has any sort of impact on your RL ability to live (i.e. pay bills, issues with a wife etc etc). Please confirm you are able to comfortably afford this. On a related note - with the new BPO's that you buy, please please ship them one at a time, and please ship them with an alt who is not in your corp etc. It's possible you could be targetted - and losing one BPO is way different to losing 5. You'll reduce the risk, both to the IPO and yourself (cause if it happens again you'll be so upset - its just not worth it).
VO Mathilda	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:47:00 - [205] I will buy 1 of your GTC. Secure way plz. Regards.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.28 04:25:00 - [206] Originally by: ProudGallenteCitizen Anyone telling you that you should not use the gtc for isk option really just wants to see your IPO fail because it would any other way. Good luck. Most Retarted comment EVER! Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Astorothe Eve will no longer be just a game if you do this and spend that sort of cash on GTCs. You're going to feel dirty for a long time :) It's only money You guys make out like his kids will miss xmas because of this. I am not trying to devalue what he is doing as it is a lot. But think of this. He could: a) Cut his losses and lose his reputation b) Call failure and have no-one ever invest in him again c) Grind for the next year to try and sc***isk together to repay investors d) Dig into a spare savings fund so he doesn't need to grind or lose his reputation. "Feel Dirty" is a little OTT imo. I feel dirty when my wife does the Xmas shopping and I find she forked out $1200 AUD on a few too many presents. yer I see your point but I would rather work his way back to the shares much as it can. I mean Its all really nice he paying RL for this but again I dont agree! It's happened he got ganked so I would rather him trade and such to gain the money back. Hell if there going to be a delay fine! Using RL cash and GTC out of the problem i don't agree! If i ever lost crap loads of isk I slowly make it back to the investors in game. That way your rep can rebuild because people will see your making n effert. Originally by:** VO Mathilda I will buy 1 of your GTC. Secure way plz. Regards. not by shuttle right? sorry couldnt help it Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.28 04:59:00 - [207] Well it's a good thing for everyone involved that you're not the one running the IPO, then.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:07:00 - [208] Originally by: Daeva Vios Well it's a good thing for everyone involved that you're not the one running the IPO, then. That's a fairly redundant statement considering he's not running the IPO. Can we not just accept each other's opinion and move on with the IPO it'self? Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| GD for grown-ups
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:09:00 - [209] Originally by: northwesten yer I see your point but I would rather work his way back to the shares much as it can. I mean Its all really nice he paying RL for this but again I dont agree! It's happened he got ganked so I would rather him trade and such to gain the money back. Hell if there going to be a delay fine! He 'chose' to do things this way. I didn't force his hand nor did anyone else. I did recommend he work it off over time, or just shut the business down as a failure but he didn't want to let his investors down. Quote: Using RL cash and GTC out of the problem i don't agree! If i ever lost crap loads of isk I slowly make it back to the investors in game. That way your rep can rebuild because people will see your making n effert. Sure, either way works. Doing the long haul both makes you have a huge grind, and likely means you still let down your investors because you don't meet the same repayments that you would have if you actually had the 10b. I would normally recommend a write-off in the event of a suicide gank however the reason the suicide gank happened was because not 1 but 5 freighter bpo's were in a shuttle. Had there been a freighter gank with 1 bpo in it then loss could be recouped. Obviously the OP made a fatal mistake. He is willing to pay for that mistake. The means he chooses to do so should be irrelevant. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:23:00 - [210] Originally by: northwesten yer I see your point but I would rather work his way back to the shares much as it can. I mean Its all really nice he paying RL for this but again I dont agree! It's happened he got ganked so I would rather him trade and such to gain the money back. Hell if there going to be a delay fine! Using RL cash and GTC out of the problem i don't agree! If i ever lost crap loads of isk I slowly make it back to the investors in game. That way your rep can rebuild because people will see your making n effert. Hmmmm.. I used to be an investor in this but the OPs timing (24h after the loss), short handed rudeness ("You're not an investor, STFU!") and 'grace period' ("Just a few more days..") silence turned me off on the deal--especially when he tried to still enforce the "1000 shares ONLY" artificial limit on the only person willing to help him. Why is everyone so quick to toss out the old adage "If it is too good to be true.."? Which is easier/more believable: A. Someone takes the left over IPO money and regains the lost 9.5b through trading/selling and/or modified business plan B. Someone, out of the "goodness of their heart" plans to willingly invests $600 USD to help ppl recoup an investment in EVE (40x 30d GTC through Shattered Cystal@ $14.99 each) and he's applauded for it? Maybe EVE has jaded me, but is there any proof that he has actually gotten all 40 of these GTCs? I mean I really like EVE, but $600 IRL money for it? Psssshyeah.. For some reason THIS THREAD haunts my thoughts over this news.

Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:27:00 - [211] You can accept that you've lost 70% of your investment... or you can take his word and see if you start getting divs in a month or so. Seems like waiting is a better option for shareholders at this point. If I was an investor I'd be shocked he is doing this... but I certainly wouldn't stop him. I'd definitely give him some more time to get things working. Especially if someone actually buys a GTC from him which proves he did it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:30:00 - [212] Hmmm, I'm kinda appreciating the commitment too, and here's something that some people who are saying "it's a stupid waste of money" should remember. Think of EVE like your car or your mates car. Then think about how much money they've spent on spoilers, body kits, stereos (i mean crap, a guy was in the paper the other day coz he spent a quarter of a million on his car sound system, and I'm certain his kiddies are getting christmas presents), then ask if the 40 GTCs (about $800) is really that mad? If you're still saying it's stupid, then think about any hobby, bushwalking, chess, gardening, anything, and think about the money you put into them. If you're still shaking your head, you should probably take up a hobby ;) EVE's like a giant train set, and occasionally you want to splurge on that really nice locomotive set. CCP provides a mechanic to invest money into eve through GTCs. Whether the GTC selling system is good for the games health or not is completely off topic. Improve Market Competition!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:53:00 - [213] I don't see why he would go to the effort of saying it if he wasn't following through with it. He was waiting specifically for the response from his petition as he told me in MSN. When he got the response he had his update here within an hour or so. Either way I was advised that if the petition failed he would look towards using RL to fund his operation. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.28 06:05:00 - [214] Sort of saying what Kylar said, but I know folks who have spent hundreds of dollars IRL to fund in-game activities. None of them in this game, but several in other games. To take it from a different perspective, look at it in terms of the time spent. For a person who makes $20 per hour after taxes, this would be 30 hours of work. Not even a full work week. It would probably take more than one week of time in-game to make back the 10b isk, and salvaging the reputation lost would take a far longer time.
Tatania Apparition	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:07:00 - [215] Originally by: Shadarle Of course somehow getting the 2 back that were taken by some means is of course another avenue that might have worked. He could always just go ahead and ask his friend for them back.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:26:00 - [216] Originally by: Erimisha I used to be an investor in this but the OPs timing (24h after the loss), short handed rudeness ("You're not an investor, STFU!") and 'grace period' ("Just a few more days..") silence turned me off on the deal--especially when he tried to still enforce the "1000 shares ONLY" artificial limit on the only person willing to help him. Sorry, but I cannot leave that there uncommented. It is your choice to pull out, and I fully respect that. However, I was never rude to anyone, I asked that the general public Lynch me later, to give those with a vested interest first pick (I could have said STFU it has nothing to do with that, but I didn't, and I would not converse in such a way in a forum. Also, my timing has been explained, I needed a little while to cool down myself, and did not want to come to the table with nothing, and now clarified as to the reasons why. I was also everything but silent, and my communication was praised multiple times in this thread. Originally by: Erimisha Which is easier/more believable: A. Someone takes the left over IPO money and regains the lost 9.5b through trading/selling and/or modified business plan B. Someone, out of the "goodness of their heart" plans to willingly invests $600 USD to help ppl recoup an investment in EVE (40x 30d GTC through Shattered Cystal@ $14.99 each) and he's applauded for it? Correct, a) would present a total turnaround in strategy, to something I have no idea of, and give investors no returns for a while. Sometimes good things really do happen, so why not applaud someone for an innovative idea which I don't think anyone saw coming. If I wanted to scam, I could have done so, I do want this to be a success. Originally by: Erimisha Maybe EVE has jaded me, but is there any proof that he has actually gotten all 40 of these GTCs? I mean I really like EVE, but $600 IRL money for it? All it is, is a question of priorities, and mine lie with the shareholders. This is the proposed continuation of the IPO, and actually, what does it matter if I get them or not?? If I do, this gets back up and running, if I don't, half the people had it written off anyhows.... I currently have not got the GTC's, I will be purchasing them shortly. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:32:00 - [217] Originally by: NeoTrade I am impressed by your dedication, and it gets my "IPO CEO of the year" award :) But I will not allow you to do this if it has any sort of impact on your RL ability to live (i.e. pay bills, issues with a wife etc etc). Please confirm you are able to comfortably afford this. On a related note - with the new BPO's that you buy, please please ship them one at a time, and please ship them with an alt who is not in your corp etc. It's possible you could be targetted - and losing one BPO is way different to losing 5. You'll reduce the risk, both to the IPO and yourself (cause if it happens again you'll be so upset - its just not worth it). BPOs will be independently transported, do not worry, they will be safe. As for comfortably affording: No bills will go unpaid, I do not own....sorry....have a wife, and my car will still get tanked up. Sure, I might not get those expensive Football boots I wanted two pairs of, but that for me is comfort zone, not commitment-zone. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Block Ukx KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:14:00 - [218] Purchasing GTC to cover your corporation losses sets up a bad precedence for the future of the IPO market. Even worse are CEOÆs using GTC to pay dividends. You should reconsider your decision and how is going to affect future ventures.
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries Capital Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:25:00 - [219] Originally by: Block Ukx Purchasing GTC to cover your corporation losses sets up a bad precedence for the future of the IPO market. Even worse are CEOÆs using GTC to pay dividends. You should reconsider your decision and how is going to affect future ventures. Depends how you look at it. Yes it's kinda weird to buy GTC however he wants to set right what happened. Which means a lot more then a person saying oeps I ***** up.. IPO Closed*. I see this as a way to get his honor back and trying to succeed with what he planned to do even with the setback which he suffered.
Block Ukx KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:43:00 - [220] Originally by: Yarden Tajj Depends how you look at it. Yes it's kinda weird to buy GTC however he wants to set right what happened. Which means a lot more then a person saying oeps I ***** up.. IPO Closed*. I see this as a way to get his honor back and trying to succeed with what he planned to do even with the setback which he suffered. He made a big mistake by moving the BPOs in a shuttle. Now he is about to make a huge mistake by purchasing GTCs.

Yarden Tajj Lost Industries Capital Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:48:00 - [221] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: Yarden Tajj Depends how you look at it. Yes it's kinda weird to buy GTC however he wants to set right what happened. Which means a lot more then a person saying oeps I ***** up.. IPO Closed*. I see this as a way to get his honor back and trying to succeed with what he planned to do even with the setback which he suffered. He made a big mistake by moving the BPOs in a shuttle. Now he is about to make a huge mistake by purchasing GTCs. Time will tell
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:50:00 - [222] Originally by: Block Ukx He made a big mistake by moving the BPOs in a shuttle. Now he is about to make a huge mistake by purchasing GTCs. So, EBANK made a terrible mistake spending $200-$300 USD on website hosting and the likes? Chribba made a terrible mistake with eve-files and his other projects? It's all about priorities. Eve Online is a hobby and the cheapest one I have ever had in my life. I don't see why it's a big deal. It's not your money. Would you prefer a scam? Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:14:00 - [223] What part of respecting the man's choice to fall on his own sword don't some of you get? Doesn't make a difference if you agree with his choice or not. He made it, it is an honorable one (even if extreme), and he's worthy of our respect on the issue. 'Nuff said. Taikun's Lost Bet
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries Capital Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:15:00 - [224] Originally by: Shar Tegral What part of respecting the man's choice to fall on his own sword don't some of you get? Doesn't make a difference if you agree with his choice or not. He made it, it is an honorable one (even if extreme), and he's worthy of our respect on the issue. 'Nuff said. signed
Block Ukx KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:48:00 - [225] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Block Ukx He made a big mistake by moving the BPOs in a shuttle. Now he is about to make a huge mistake by purchasing GTCs. So, EBANK made a terrible mistake spending $200-$300 USD on website hosting and the likes? Chribba made a terrible mistake with eve-files and his other projects? It's all about priorities. Eve Online is a hobby and the cheapest one I have ever had in my life. I don't see why it's a big deal. It's not your money. Would you prefer a scam? There is big difference between spending cash to provide out of game services versus injecting ISK via cash into IPOs.
ProudGallenteCitizen	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:56:00 - [226] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Block Ukx He made a big mistake by moving the BPOs in a shuttle. Now he is about to make a huge mistake by purchasing GTCs. So, EBANK made a terrible mistake spending $200-$300 USD on website hosting and the likes? Chribba made a terrible mistake with eve-files and his other projects? It's all about priorities. Eve Online is a hobby and the cheapest one I have ever had in my life. I don't see why it's a big deal. It's not your money. Would you prefer a scam? There is big difference between spending cash to provide out of game services versus injecting ISK via cash into IPOs. There is a big difference between a failed business plan injecting isk and a careless mistake that has nothing to do with the business plan completely ruining the IPO. He is erasing his mistake as quickly as possible so stop being envious of his real world cash.
Block Ukx KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:09:00 - [227] Originally by: ProudGallenteCitizen There is a big difference between a failed business plan injecting isk and a careless mistake that has nothing to do with the business plan completely ruining the IPO. He is erasing his mistake as quickly as possible so stop being envious of his real world cash. No, he canÆt erase his mistake but only divert attention from it. This is not about the size of his wallet. It is about the precedence he is about to make that I strongly believe is going to be very harmful to future IPOs.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:44:00 - [228] Edited by: northwesten on 28/11/2007 15:45:59 Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Block Ukx He made a big mistake by moving the BPOs in a shuttle. Now he is about to make a huge mistake by purchasing GTCs. So, EBANK made a terrible mistake spending $200-$300 USD on website hosting and the likes? Chribba made a terrible mistake with eve-files and his other projects? It's all about priorities. Eve Online is a hobby and the cheapest one I have ever had in my life. I don't see why it's a big deal. It's not your money. Would you prefer a scam? Originally by: Block Ukx There is big difference between spending cash to provide out of game services versus injecting ISK via cash into IPOs. Ricdic I see your point! but I agree with Ukx there a difference! And also most sites offer a choice to make payments to help keep it up. Tho Just the Idea to spend 40 GTC to make a fast recover from it makes me feel uneasy by it. Ok be nice for us but I still don't like the idea because its more risky to lose it all again and in turn lose Alot is RL. yes its his money and his choice but still! .. EVE is a hobby to me and My corp is a big hobby etc but I would never use GTC to recover losses. If i suffer a loss i work it in game like Its EVE it happens! I would peffer a scam/ or a closed IPO than IPO ran by RL. Tho again in my other comment the remaining isk you can recover in trade etc! So its slow but you recover. That would be a real challenge but yes he made his choice but we just expressing are worries about this. Also future IPO i don't think it get effected but it just removes the risk which is sad because its a game too and thats what EVE is risk! OP good luck what ever path you take but just woprried about this! Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:50:00 - [229] I really don't think it's a precedent. I don't think anyone will ever be able to reasonably say "go buy GTCs to cover (whatever loss) to your investors!" Whatever happened to those BPOs he lost, it was his fault, for autopiloting them around oblivious to any risk... or even just transporting such high value goods in a 9,000 ISK ship in the first place... it was his fault. He's taking responsibility for it, and instead of making investors wait months for him to try and recover from the loss, he's giving, through a substantial cost to himself, a very-rare-in-EVE do-over. Not something I'd do myself... largely since I wouldn't have lost something like that in the first place as I'd move them with a tanked up CovOps Recon or CovOps frigate failing that, but it is his money and his choice. He's doing what he feels is in the best interest in those who invested in him. What you, I, or anyone else besides those who have to decide whether or not they want to keep any confidence in him after such a monumental screw up think about it is irrelevant. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:04:00 - [230] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: ProudGallenteCitizen There is a big difference between a failed business plan injecting isk and a careless mistake that has nothing to do with the business plan completely ruining the IPO. He is erasing his mistake as quickly as possible so stop being envious of his real world cash. No, he can’t erase his mistake but only divert attention from it. This is not about the size of his wallet. It is about the precedence he is about to make that I strongly believe is going to be very harmful to future IPOs. I am not erasing it, neither am I trying to divert attention from it. I am being upfront and honest about it and trying to put things right. I am by no mean trying to brag or boast about Wallet size, I enjoy this as a game, I see it as a hobby, and I know what other hobbies (see painballing, or Karting) normally cost. As to setting a precedent, I doubt that very much, don't think that many would be willing to do this. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company

Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:15:00 - [231] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan I really don't think it's a precedent. I don't think anyone will ever be able to reasonably say "go buy GTCs to cover (whatever loss) to your investors!" I agree. The precedent that is set, and should have been set a long time ago, if it had not been set already, is that a CEO would make an effort to recover from losses caused by his own carelessness. If DATAC lost a shipment of datacores due to my carelessness, then I would replace it from my personal in-game assets. I would not purchase GTC's to do so, as I simply do not have the cash. But I would still do my best to cover such a loss. It all comes down to responsiblity for the operation of your venture. I am most impressed with Bakimi's commitment. He has set a good precedent for CEO's to own up to their mistakes, but do not feel that he has set a precedent that future CEO's need to spend cash on GTC's to cover those mistakes. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Bitter Brain Bitter Old Men	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:06:00 - [232] I wish you the very best Bakimi. Put this incident behind you and start enjoying the RL hours you spend playing. I can fully understand that this is the only feasible way if you still want to play EVE. I value your morale and I will definately keep my shares. Now, lets all turn back time one week and focus on the business.... Bitter Brain
Lannier Na'Toth VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.28 23:04:00 - [233] First off, I would like to commend you on your extreme commitment to this IPO. I didnÆt post anything after the incident as you requested time and I was happy to give you that as I understand the deep feelings you were probably experiencing. I hate to see you spend RL cash on this but as you said this is something important to you and you feel you will have a lot of fun running. Again I commend your dedication. Now it appears that the majority of complainers here are not in fact share holders so why it matters to them I donÆt know. This will not affect other IPOÆs because quite simply I donÆt see anyone else that would be willing to go above and beyond like this. My shares will stay in my wallet and IÆm proud to have them.
Pang Grohl Gallente Sudo Corp	Posted - 2007.11.29 00:30:00 - [234] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Block Ukx He made a big mistake by moving the BPOs in a shuttle. Now he is about to make a huge mistake by purchasing GTCs. So, EBANK made a terrible mistake spending $200-$300 USD on website hosting and the likes? Chribba made a terrible mistake with eve-files and his other projects? It's all about priorities. Eve Online is a hobby and the cheapest one I have ever had in my life. I don't see why it's a big deal. It's not your money. Would you prefer a scam? There is big difference between spending cash to provide out of game services versus injecting ISK via cash into IPOs. The ISK needed to effect a recovery has to come from somewhere. Whether it's massive farming or cash to ISK conversion is irrelevant outside of the ethics surrounding the method. If you object to cash to ISK conversion, that's fine. If you're an investor, express your displeasure by divesting. If you believe that there's an impact beyond that of cash to ISK conversion, state what you believe the impact is, and we can all have a discussion about that. *** Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) Improve Share Transfers
Caldari Alt	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:08:00 - [235] I'm not a shareholder, so I suppose it's a bit unfair of me to presume a lot of concern about this. I feel compelled to speak up though because I find this whole situation really strange; I don't understand why any investors would trust Bakimi at this point to conduct his business in a reasonable way. Points being: - The "mistake" he made appears to be almost bizarrely stupid. Why would anyone move BPOs like that in a shuttle, and then, why would you do it AFK? How could you do such a thing if you are more than a week old? - He hasn't said a word to explain the circumstances of it; he keeps dropping these little implicit hints that maybe there was something going on we don't all know about, but he does admit that the loss was a terrible mistake on his part, and declines to explain himself further. Given that he hasn't presented any reasonable explanation (or, for that matter, any explanation at all) of what on God's green earth was going through his head doing that, why would people expect him not to be similarly boneheaded in other aspects of his business? I mean, to me, this doesn't seem like a normal error. It's not like he typed an extra digit in his order in the market, or he miscalculated some profit margin. He decided to transport billions of ISK in other people's money while apparently AFK in a shuttle. I don't understand how anyone who is a competent player could ever do that unless they were drunk or as high as the clouds. Perhaps he could explain, but he hasn't tried.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:37:00 - [236] He made a mistake and he paid for it, literally. Due to the efforts he has taken to resolve the issue I am willing to give him another chance to prove himself albeit under much stricter guidelines than the first (me handling transportation of the bpo's etc, and my towers being utilised instead). Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:47:00 - [237] With these steps implemented, I see no reason why the IPO would not be successful. Philosophical arguments about the morality of selling GTCs for ISK aside, this is a sound move. I believe if anyone wishes to start a new topic about selling GTCs for ISK, they should do so. Aside from this...has anyone stopped to think that Bakimi could have bought the GTCs in the first place, to fund the whole thing? He wouldn't have needed to come here for the isk, and the fact that he has done so means, to me, that this IPO is something else. What I mean is that the whole exercise is a practice in building reputation. I for one would truly like to encourage that. Despite taking a hit, he can now build his reputation with Ricdic's backing and his own money behind it. The market needs dedicated individuals in order to grow and become something bigger than it is. It seems to me that Bakimi's pretty dedicated.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:02:00 - [238] Originally by: Daeva Vios Aside from this...has anyone stopped to think that Bakimi could have bought the GTCs in the first place, to fund the whole thing? He wouldn't have needed to come here for the isk, and the fact that he has done so means, to me, that this IPO is something else. What I mean is that the whole exercise is a practice in building reputation. I for one would truly like to encourage that. Despite taking a hit, he can now build his reputation with Ricdic's backing and his own money behind it. The market needs dedicated individuals in order to grow and become something bigger than it is. It seems to me that Bakimi's pretty dedicated. Good point raised there. He could have scammed the ISK, started a new character, and THEN bought the GTCs and gone into the scheme for himself. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| GD for grown-ups
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:04:00 - [239] Originally by: Caldari Alt I don't understand why any investors would trust Bakimi at this point to conduct his business in a reasonable way. Go away alt, if you want anyone to give you a second thought post with a main. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:46:00 - [240] Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 29/11/2007 05:49:23 Originally by: Shadarle Go away alt, if you want anyone to give you a second thought post with a main. That seems a bit unfair. What about it made it less credible when posted by an alt? For my part, I don't agree. Any issues I would have with his shuttle problem would be fully made up for by his dedication in resolving it, to the tune of a lot of money. I don't think all business owners in EVE would be so willing to pursue success in the face of extreme pessimism, which buys a whole lot of faith from me.

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:23:00 - [241] Originally by: Astorothe Originally by: Daeva Vios Aside from this...has anyone stopped to think that Bakimi could have bought the GTCs in the first place, to fund the whole thing? He wouldn't have needed to come here for the isk, and the fact that he has done so means, to me, that this IPO is something else. What I mean is that the whole exercise is a practice in building reputation. I for one would truly like to encourage that. Despite taking a hit, he can now build his reputation with Ricdic's backing and his own money behind it. The market needs dedicated individuals in order to grow and become something bigger than it is. It seems to me that Bakimi's pretty dedicated. Good point raised there. He could have scammed the ISK, started a new character, and THEN bought the GTCs and gone into the scheme for himself. I think what she meant was that on Day 1 I could have bought the GTCs to fund this rather than make an IPO out of it. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:22:00 - [242] I have mixed opinions on the whole GTC thing, but I will work those out on my own and not subject all of you to my rambling on it. BUT I do want to see the actual details of what happened. It really feels like he is hiding something important, or just isn't able to come up with a plausible cover story. Along with the statment that he made regarding the person that announced the incident, "they were more than just in local", makes things sound fishy. No offense to the fish.
MasterSync	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:50:00 - [243] i have spent some good times with Fey playing Eve, i believe he will do everything he can to make this venture a successful one.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:03:00 - [244] Edited by: Astorothe on 30/11/2007 04:03:41 Time will tell - regardless of all of our collective feelings on his plan to recover from the uber-gank. Personally, I'm hoping this one works out. Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| GD for grown-ups
VO Mathilda	Posted - 2007.12.03 21:06:00 - [245] So how is the salvaging of this Operation going? Regards
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 21:30:00 - [246] I'm gone for three days and no posts from the OP? somehow I'm not surprised.
desmuction	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:59:00 - [247] this is a joke
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:40:00 - [248] I am holding off on buy orders pending contact with the OP. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:18:00 - [249] Sorry, I was out of contact over weekend, had private emergency. To Update, I have an offer tabled to purchase all the GTCs at the asking price from on individual (no prizes for guessing who). If this happens to fall through, I will be posting a link to the Sales thread... ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:23:00 - [250] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal To Update, I have an offer tabled to purchase all the GTCs at the asking price from on individual (no prizes for guessing who). Ricdic? He seems to buy everything else out before anyone else gets a taste... :P j/k I'm pretty sure I know who, but I couldnt resist the chance to poke fun at ricdic. --

Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:13:00 - [251] Actually yes I am in the market to buy 5 * 90 day gtc's. But I thought you were doing it with 30d ones so I haven't bothered approaching you Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.06 00:06:00 - [252] Originally by: Ricdic Actually yes I am in the market to buy 5 * 90 day gtc's. But I thought you were doing it with 30d ones so I haven't bothered approaching you Yeah, I am doing it with 30 day ones, and it actually (just for once) has nothing to do with you, that was someone else who said that ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.06 02:42:00 - [253] Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.06 11:31:00 - [254] Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 06/12/2007 11:31:10 Originally by: Ricdic I like the reaction OK, here the update you've been waiting for Game Time Codes ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Athias	Posted - 2007.12.06 23:25:00 - [255] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal By the way, shattered Crystal really is damn careful, they asked me some serious questions before selling me 30 GTCs... Can only agree with you there, the fun part for me licing in Europe was seeing the phonenumber on the callerID thinking who the hell calls me at 4.30 am from some weird place , and yes the questions are weird specially when the terms they are asking for arent something that is used in ones native tongue. But good luck on the venture
dzemal	Posted - 2007.12.07 02:10:00 - [256] Glad to hear things are going according to plan
NeoTrade	Posted - 2007.12.07 02:15:00 - [257] Quote: Can only agree with you there, the fun part for me licing in Europe was seeing the phonenumber on the callerID thinking who the hell calls me at 4.30 am from some weird place , and yes the questions are weird specially when the terms they are asking for arent something that is used in ones native tongue. You know what kills me about that whole process? 1. You can buy thousands of dollars worth of items, such as TVs, Holidays etc using a Visa card - but I get more security checks buying a $15 Eve time card! 2. The "check" is someone using Google maps to ask me what the name of the closest hospital is. Any half decent scammer can then open the same Google maps and answer the question!
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.07 08:33:00 - [258] Originally by: NeoTrade Quote: Can only agree with you there, the fun part for me licing in Europe was seeing the phonenumber on the callerID thinking who the hell calls me at 4.30 am from some weird place , and yes the questions are weird specially when the terms they are asking for arent something that is used in ones native tongue. You know what kills me about that whole process? 1. You can buy thousands of dollars worth of items, such as TVs, Holidays etc using a Visa card - but I get more security checks buying a $15 Eve time card! 2. The "check" is someone using Google maps to ask me what the name of the closest hospital is. Any half decent scammer can then open the same Google maps and answer the question! I totally agree with you about part 1. I even got called later in the day by paypal to double chekc that I meant to send that money to the States. Luckily the calls were midday and afternoon, not middle of the night. As to the check itself. I was painfully aware that it was someone looking at google maps. Unfortunately it took a little longer as I had no clue what Hospital I live near... but as you said, it was a far clearer security check than anything I've come across for a "normal" purchase. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries Capital Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:16:00 - [259] I'm disappointed that to my knowledge nothing has happened with my gesture yet. This could have been used already to start something up and get things moving.
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.11 12:34:00 - [260] so now that you have sold some of the GTCs, can we get an update on what has been done?

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.11 12:52:00 - [261] Originally by: Atherin Gaius so now that you have sold some of the GTCs, can we get an update on what has been done? When there is something to report, I will report it, don't worry ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:30:00 - [262] From what I hear from my gruff friend here, the venture is being initialized step by step as the GTCs sell, but I assume he wants to hold back with confirmation of the final details until all have actually sold. Which is not the case just yet. -------------------- I'll also use this post to reiterate the offer made on the ingame mailing list: I am currently looking to obtain some additional shares, as I have cash to spare again. Ideally I would like to buy around 200 to 250, but that amount is up for negotiation (I'll also accept smaller quantities of course). Obviously, as the IPO has been sold out for a while, this means I'm offering to buy from fellow shareholders. If you are unhappy with the course of the venture, need quick liquid ISK, or want to get out for some other reason, this is your chance - I am willing to offer you an excellent price. If you are interested, please eve-mail me. We will then discuss all necessary details privately.
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 23:25:00 - [263] Just because I am lazy and don't want to search this thread.... Can someone post the ingame mail channel for me? Thanks!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.12 23:36:00 - [264] I just wanted to post here to say that a few days ago I recieved the funds to replace 5 of the blueprints. I have done this (so I have about 9b of the IPO fund in my possession) and am just waiting for a couple more prints and the POS modules before work starts. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
VO Mathilda	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:58:00 - [265] Is everything working has planned? Regards.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:15:00 - [266] Originally by: VO Mathilda Is everything working has planned? Regards. Sounds like it's getting there by Ricdic's post. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.21 16:34:00 - [267] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Originally by: Atherin Gaius so now that you have sold some of the GTCs, can we get an update on what has been done? When there is something to report, I will report it, don't worry Not sure about everyone else but I would like a report on what is going on the last couple weeks. Investors like communication, especially when there were some issues at start up. Even if it is just to say that some BPOs are in reasearch with end dates of X is fine. We just need to know what is going on. This might seem like a pain, but doing this little thing on a regular basis will increase the trust level people have with you.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.21 16:59:00 - [268] I agree completely with the above. I know precisely what is going on and what point we are up too but don't feel it is in my place to state it. This is Feyloan's corporation and he should be making the announces. Next time I see him online I will push him to post here and give a proper update. If one hasn't been made within the next couple of days I will do so myself. Things I can say now: 1) 6 bpo's locked down within C-R-A. 2) Copying hasn't yet started 3) No infrastructure required, will use existing C-R-A tools to save on fuel costs etc (C-R-A will of course charge for usage) I have already said too much . But if I was in your position (investors) I would want to know this information asap as well. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 01:40:00 - [269] update? --- meh.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 02:47:00 - [270] Originally by: Ricdic 2) Copying hasn't yet started \o/ free competitor bump - putting the gist back into logistics

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:42:00 - [271] First all, hope you all had a nice Christmas. As for an Update, we now have 6 BPOs copying, the first dividends will be paid end of January, latest very start of February. This is a delay of approx 3 weeks on original plan, but all things considered, I hope this is an acceptable delay after all that happened. The 7th BPO will be aquired and start copying by New Years. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2007.12.27 13:47:00 - [272] A little late is better than nothing. Consider that folks here have gone through a string of scams recently. If you pay out (even a little late) you'll come through smelling like roses.
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.27 14:50:00 - [273] Good to hear everything's working OK Feyloan! Am I right in thinking that the first divi will come when this 7th BPO is successfully copied for the first time? In which case, would you mind terribly if we had a screen shot of the Science & Industry jobs showing the work being done? --- meh.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:48:00 - [274] Originally by: Mr Horizontal In which case, would you mind terribly if we had a screen shot of the Science & Industry jobs showing the work being done? I can provide this. Here you go
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.28 01:06:00 - [275] w00t!
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.29 12:58:00 - [276] Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 29/12/2007 12:58:10 Originally by: Mr Horizontal Good to hear everything's working OK Feyloan! Am I right in thinking that the first divi will come when this 7th BPO is successfully copied for the first time? In which case, would you mind terribly if we had a screen shot of the Science & Industry jobs showing the work being done? The plan of this IPO is to pay a divi whenever a BPC is sold, so when the fist copy is there, it will be contracted, and when sold the isk will be split 75/25 for dividend / debt repayment & cost covering. So expect iskies start of Feb at the latest, probably end of Jan, and then steady dividends up to 7 times a month (there will be then a summation / monthly report both in the Mailing list and in the Forums). P.S.: Ric, loving the Screenshot ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:20:00 - [277] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 29/12/2007 12:58:10 The plan of this IPO is to pay a divi whenever a BPC is sold, so when the fist copy is there, it will be contracted, and when sold the isk will be split 75/25 for dividend / debt repayment & cost covering. So expect iskies start of Feb at the latest, probably end of Jan, and then steady dividends up to 7 times a month (there will be then a summation / monthly report both in the Mailing list and in the Forums). P.S.: Ric, loving the Screenshot What is the name of the maillist that you are sending the reports to? I want to add it in my mail window. thanks!
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.30 22:43:00 - [278] The mailing list's name is the same as the corporation: Praetoria Holdings. Very easily found by going to the first page of this thread, pressing ctrl+F, and typing in 'mail', btw
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2008.01.08 23:51:00 - [279] Originally by: Ishina Fel The mailing list's name is the same as the corporation: Praetoria Holdings. Very easily found by going to the first page of this thread, pressing ctrl+F, and typing in 'mail', btw Well there you go, I didn't know that, you learn something new every day... So I have sobered up from Ishina's wild New Years Party now (), and just wanted to say all is well, just waiting on first bunch of copies (Yes, 33 Days is a long time when essentially nothing will happen, this was however clear from the outset...). Any Questions, feel free to talk to me at some point in-game, eve mail or convo if I am on (Feyloan is on mostly, this guy gets checked once a day for mails and such). Also, at this point, however belated, HAPPY NEW YEAR to all investors and anyone who stumbles across this thread and actually makes it this far ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 07:56:00 - [280] I kinda like the way this worked out in the end - not ideal, but under the circumstances it looks good. It will be interesting to see what the dividends are. Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services

Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2008.01.16 08:39:00 - [281] Originally by: Astorothe I kinda like the way this worked out in the end - not ideal, but under the circumstances it looks good. It will be interesting to see what the dividends are. Definately not ideal, due to approx 3 weeks delay and me having to foot the bill, however, the first batch of copies are due the 25th. So anytime after that, Iskies will start rolling in, with 75% of each sale going back to investors (the other 25% covering costs and paying back a loan a player gave the corp for free, this has already been posted by me). There will be an announcement very shortly in this thread about one final problem faced, which cannot be solved by CCP (the reasons for which completely elude me). ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
Herodian Minmatar Gladius Noctem	Posted - 2008.01.18 11:27:00 - [282] Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal There will be an announcement very shortly in this thread about one final problem faced, which cannot be solved by CCP (the reasons for which completely elude me). very shortly is not more than 1 day in my book....
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.18 11:59:00 - [283] Originally by: Herodian very shortly is not more than 1 day in my book.... Two days tops in mine. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Bakimi Ghevorchal Praetoria Holdings	Posted - 2008.01.18 12:55:00 - [284] Well im my books it was "before the weekend", sorry, next time I will write that instead OK, first of all, before all panic ensues due to this announcement, remember that the assets are locked down in CRA and not in Praetoria Holdings, so the assets are secured. Praetoria Holdings is only for dividend purposes. There was an issue with a share transfer which CCP could not solve, inexplicable for me, because it was clear what had happened and it would have been so easy to solve. However, due to this, Praetoria Holdings has to be re-formed, which means that Bakimi will stand down as CEO today, and after the 24 hour period will exit the corp and reform it. Then shares will be recreated and distributed to share holders. I apologise for any inconvenience, but this will have no affect on anything to be honest, you will get your shares, and the dividends once the first round of copies is made. Any shareholder who has a problem with this, please contact me to resolve it on my main, the corp will buy back shares at 110% of anyone who wants to get out as well. ------ CEO of Praetoria Holdings, a Public Company
VO Mathilda	Posted - 2008.01.21 13:29:00 - [285] 250 shares sent back. Waiting on the switch.
Reeze Calban	Posted - 2008.01.22 17:29:00 - [286] I've sent back my 20 shares, awaiting new ones Originally by: ufl Holy trolly molly.... this is just sad. I work too hard for this kind of harassment... Sheesh.
Reeze Calban	Posted - 2008.01.22 19:52:00 - [287] New shares have been received, thanks Bakimi Originally by: ufl Holy trolly molly.... this is just sad. I work too hard for this kind of harassment... Sheesh.
Herodian Minmatar Gladius Noctem	Posted - 2008.01.23 20:18:00 - [288] just a confirmation that i have received the new shares :) Good luck with the venture and may the payment of dividends be swift and plentifull..
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.23 22:58:00 - [289] If you have some extra shares or any returned from the buyback offer then EMFI would be interested in having a taster investment in your enterprise...please eve mail if you have some spare :) Cheers, Ghost EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange EMFI blog at: http://emfi.blogspot.com/
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.01.28 03:19:00 - [290] Originally by: Ricdic Yeh I offered the buyback because I am fairly confident in Feyloan's skills to resolve the situation. Obviously other's aren't and I don't really want this thread to end up like Wylker's one. As I said when I first bought into it I do see the potential for Feyloan in this industry. He made a fatal mistake but the true testament will be seeing if he can recover from it. Just coming back here and looking for resolutions shows that he doesn't want a tarnished reputation and my chats with him on msn and in-game lead me to believe he is going above and beyond the call of duty to try and fix the problem. As was seen by Riethe, I could be wrong again which is why I am only buying back at 80%. Unfortunately the Riethe scam made me step back and look at those around me in a whole new light, people I have known and trusted with billions for years with me having to double question the trust etc. It's a good and bad thing but I hate having to do it. Anyway yeh I could just buyback on all different toons it wouldn't matter and isn't enforcable. If anything I would see the Feyloan restriction of 1000 on me as a way to try and limit any fallout I recieve if he cannot resolve the situation. Either way, I didn't get into the financial position I am in now by not taking risks. CCP made this game with Risk Vs Reward in mind, and even though they have had near zero hand in the MD portion of Eve over the years, Risk Vs Reward is still very much an important factor. My reward if my belief in Feyloan is correct, is that those 5% minimum repayments go up to 6.25% minimum if Feyloan recovers and continues to meet repayments. If not and he liquidates then I get a higher amount back. Liquidation at a loss or complete failure/scam is the adverse end of the scale. Time will tell but I can afford the loss if it occurs. This is for Mtber Originally by: Ricdic Insider trading 4tw. Sell me your shares under priced. Nah, I just know what he is trying to accomplish. If all that fails then I lose a lot more than the 20% discount for doing this buyback Smile And another condition to my buyback of those shares Originally by: Ricdic We have been chatting about this for a few days now and it was completely his decision. Not wanting to capitalise off his RL expenses I also have an express deal that when it comes time to shut down shop or buy out his corp, he buys my shares off me at 85% of initial value (as I done the buyback at 80% for others). So, simply put he told me what he wanted to do. I told the public that he had a few ideas but I would offer the buyback for those who wanted to get out. At the time of my offfer there was still every chance that he wouldn't follow through with his chosen resolution (buying of GTC's) and would just vanish. I felt there was still a fairly good chance of success so I took the chance. But there is no doubt I was taking a risk I definetly was worried. Anyway as per above I offered Feyloan the option to buyback my shares at 85% of cost as I know he had a RL expense in all of this. I got them cheap, am happy to get a higher interest rate as a result,but will sell them back to him at a price similar to purchase price. Mtber seems a little upset at me and seems to be out for vengeance. If anything this post was to clarify the situation behind this. Either way insider trading can't be governed in this game, but if things had ended on the other end of the scale (with Feyloan not bothering to get the GTC's) then I would have taken a nice loss and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Feyloan	Posted - 2008.01.28 09:24:00 - [291] Wow, I am not on the Forums for two days and suddenly someone comes to call my trading practices into question I have absolutely nothing to add to what Ricdic has posted, just wanted to confirm it from my side and to add that I have received no complaints from shareholders what so ever on this matter, all was reported fairly imho. It basically bought me a couple of days extra, and gave some shareholders a way out, who were understandibly nervous at the time, so I am also greatful for what Ricdic did, and the trust he, as well as all other investors, put into me. Oh, btw. Copies done, expect the first dividends within a couple of days, January Report expected to go out by the 3rd. Regards, Feyloan
VO Mathilda	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:07:00 - [292] Update? Anything... a small phrase to say everything is ok... once a while... just to make me feel less stressed. Regards VO Mathilda
Evolyze Personal Vendetta	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:25:00 - [293] Im currently having uber pc problems, what will happen if i can't send my shares back before the first wave of isk is handed out ? Evol
Slasher Arcana	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:05:00 - [294] Any update?
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.02.11 05:38:00 - [295] Ok if I can't get in contact with Feyloan over the next 3 days I will seize his operation and liquidate it (I hold all the assets). Feyloan's job is really simple, to accept a contract for a pile of freighter bpc's, and then sell them. Then pay dividends. Unfortunately its going to be hard to handle dividends as he has created a second corp so I cant just do a share for isk exchange. We need to figure something else out. Either way, Feyloan advised a dividend would be forthcoming with a statement on the 3rd. It's now the 11th and I don't believe either has been provided. I haven't seen Feyloan on MSN of late either. Obviously he paid for all this with his own RL money so I really hope he comes forward or some sort of information is forthcoming as I don't want to have to liquidate but Feyloan you really need to step up and handle this or I will have no choice but to deal with it myself.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.11 06:09:00 - [296] Edited by: FastLearner on 11/02/2008 06:09:28 Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Ok if I can't get in contact with Feyloan over the next 3 days I will seize his operation and liquidate it (I hold all the assets). Feyloan's job is really simple, to accept a contract for a pile of freighter bpc's, and then sell them. Then pay dividends. Unfortunately its going to be hard to handle dividends as he has created a second corp so I cant just do a share for isk exchange. We need to figure something else out. Either way, Feyloan advised a dividend would be forthcoming with a statement on the 3rd. It's now the 11th and I don't believe either has been provided. I haven't seen Feyloan on MSN of late either. Obviously he paid for all this with his own RL money so I really hope he comes forward or some sort of information is forthcoming as I don't want to have to liquidate but Feyloan you really need to step up and handle this or I will have no choice but to deal with it myself. Yeah, the creation of replacement corp confused issue. I haven't really been paying much attention to this thread (as I'm not an investor) but two things stick out to me about the new corp issue: 1. How do you reform a corp on same name? As far as I know, you can't - you have to use a new corp name/ticker. 2. What on earth was the idea behind asking people to mass return shares? There's no tracking of share transfer in Eve - so if you receive back 1000 shares but total claims comes to 1300 you (i,.e. feyloan) have no way to know who actually sent back and who is trying to scam. The ONLY good way to do it is to FIRST send out new shares (on a new corp name) THEN ask for the old ones back. That's what I had to do when I sent some shares to wrong person from Fury Bank. Incidentally I'm pretty certain feyloan was around earlier today in Fury Bank channel - so he hasn't quit playing. Wouldn't surprise me if he's just totally lost track of who sent back shares and doesn't have a clue what to do - admitting so and asking for people to claim shares would be suicide. Even with a screen-shot of sharehodlers prior to requesting them returned there's absolutely no way to figure out who legitimately returned shares if some people with shares have transferred them to alts and are claiming to have sent them back. I assume he has a record of who originally bought shares - so the only way around it may well be to trace the shares right from the start. i.e. ask shareholders to detail where all their shares went then refuse to honour any which can't be accounted for. Even that runs into difficulties if a player actually sold their shares to someone else but claims to have sent them back: as it would be apparent one of the two people were lieing (either one player is lieing about not having bought the shares, or the other got his shares from a different character of his own - which is claiming to have returned them) but ALMOST impossible to tell which (if the journal were alive for the period in question then, via API, the purchaser could demonstate payment to the original shareholder). However you look at it, asking for shares back before issuing new ones was a totally stupid way to do things.
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.11 07:27:00 - [297] He was online yesterday... He did reply to an eve mail I sent about the share exchange. But yeah, some communication would be nice. :) If I were in his shoes, I'd have got the GM's to sort out the corp bug, but given the share exchange issue, I'd also assume he's waiting for all shares to be transferred to the new corp before he pays any dividend... either way I'm only speculating here, we do need more info.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.11 16:02:00 - [298] Edited by: Ishina Fel on 11/02/2008 16:04:16 Apparently he's been on a business trip all last week (until Friday or Saturday I believe), but yeah, he should be more prompt with managing his IPO. I don't like it one bit either that I constantly feel the need to go and poke him and tell him "hey, there's stuff/people waiting for you ingame". If this goes on, I will be getting out of the venture, and reinvest my ISK elsewhere. Originally by: Mr Horizontal If I were in his shoes, I'd have got the GM's to sort out the corp bug, but given the share exchange issue, I'd also assume he's waiting for all shares to be transferred to the new corp before he pays any dividend... either way I'm only speculating here, we do need more info. From what I heard, the GMs repeatedly refused to help him with his share distribution bugs/problems, which is why he had to re-form the corp in the first place. Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:36:00 - [299] What were the problems? As someone who has dealt in shares in a good 5+ public operations I am curious to know what possible bug could require a new corp to need creation. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
NeoTrade	Posted - 2008.02.12 02:10:00 - [300] Originally by: Ricdic What were the problems? As someone who has dealt in shares in a good 5+ public operations I am curious to know what possible bug could require a new corp to need creation. From the post about 9 replies up Quote: There was an issue with a share transfer which CCP could not solve, inexplicable for me, because it was clear what had happened and it would have been so easy to solve. However, due to this, Praetoria Holdings has to be re-formed, which means that Bakimi will stand down as CEO today, and after the 24 hour period will exit the corp and reform it. Then shares will be recreated and distributed to share holders. I can confirm I have also received my new shares.

VO Mathilda	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:43:00 - [301] Ok, lets give him some time. I dont think hes gonna let us down. Or he would have done it when the freak accident happened. Till then, lets be patient. Regards.
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:16:00 - [302] Edited by: Feyloan on 13/02/2008 00:17:34 Was out of country all week unfortunately and semi cut-off from civilisation....so dependent on the internet these days.... @Fastlearner: I have a list of all the shareholders at the time the old corp was given up, those people get the shares @Ricdic: just send me an eve-mail if you can't reach me any other way, I respond to those the instant I'm online, and I do have you in msn as well and have seen you about there... Shares will be finished redistributed tomorrow, the second batch are copying, so there is no hold up, just a few copies in my hold currently, when shares are distributed, these will be sold and a dividend paid. Edit: @Mr. Horizontal: The issue was taken up with GM's, they did nothing about it, hence the reforming --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:26:00 - [303] Good to see you are still alive and well. Are you forcing the need for me to do a share exchange or will you just send me the new ones as replacements for my old ones on hand? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.02.13 05:45:00 - [304] Originally by: Ricdic Good to see you are still alive and well. Are you forcing the need for me to do a share exchange or will you just send me the new ones as replacements for my old ones on hand? I'm just going to send out new ones to everyone who had some. --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Doctor Sunshine Irata III Trek Alliance Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.02.17 21:02:00 - [305] ...update?
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.02.18 13:11:00 - [306] Right, after sorting some stuff out over the weekend I now finally have some time for Eve again... There are still the 5 Copies which will start to be sold as of this evening via contracts. On top of this there is some big news concerning assets. There will be a 6th BPO added to the inventory this week, so that the total capital in the Corp is over the 12,5 billion again, to secure the investment, Ricdic can confirm once the BPO is safely locked down in CRA. --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 19:01:00 - [307] nice to see that there is still movement on the IPO. As a suggestion, you may want to identify a trusted individual that can help you during the times that you are away from EVE, ie setting up contracts and copying BPOs for you.
Herodian Minmatar Gladius Noctem	Posted - 2008.02.18 21:50:00 - [308] could you maybe eve-mail us the links to the contracts so i can maybe help a bit with the promotion of those contracts ? Would also help in investor confidence...
Wration Caldari GeoTech	Posted - 2008.02.19 04:54:00 - [309] Any eta on those new shares to be distributed? Have been waiting some time for the new ones
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.02.20 08:33:00 - [310] @Herodian: Yes, I can eve mail them to whomever would like, depending on reaction and prices I am debating doing a "shop" on the Forums @Wration: Most should have their shares now, you have not been forgotten, however it is an Alphabetical list I am going through, but you have my word the shares will be there this evening @Atherin: I would not have a problem with giving account details to a trusted individual to keep watch, HOWEVER, the beauty of this project is that I only HAVE to be online in Eve when the copies are produced, as this is the only time critical to success. I also will have more time again for eve once this month is over. The delay in selling btw. is not necessarily a bad thing right now. Prices have dropped slightly in anticipation of the patch release, as anyone inventing from copies has not been buying recently. --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...

Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2008.02.20 09:23:00 - [311] Originally by: Feyloan The delay in selling btw. is not necessarily a bad thing right now. Prices have dropped slightly in anticipation of the patch release, as anyone inventing from copies has not been buying recently. It's not just the delay in selling. In selling alone you have probably lost approximately 500m of shareholder profits due to your delays in selling the bpc's I provided you a couple of weeks ago. At the start of your operation the "issue" resulted in a 2 month delay in your operation even starting causing no income to your investors. The very limited forum updates and lack of responses causes people to be worried about your intentions. The lack of commitment to your IPO shows you may not have been ready to launch one. RL issue after RL issue has delayed your corporate progress. There's always an excuse and I wonder why someone with such a hectic RL that they can't log into eve for 4 minutes to setup 5 contracts would be running a public corporation in the first place. The corporate share "bug" that appeared that I have never heard of before, after dealing with tons of share issuances and share creations is a little strange. I would be very curious to hear about this in detail as frankly I call bluff. If the BPO's weren't secured I think your lack of management would cause a very large (larger than has already occured) selling frenzy on your shares, causing a net loss to those of your investors selling out due to inconsistencies. Finally, we need consistency. If you say you will be issuing a report on the 3rd, issue that report. If you say the dividend will be a couple of days later, make sure the dividend is there. Frankly most of the guys here have been going soft on you but I don't doubt that the poor management skills portrayed here will have a direct affect on any future offerings you open up. There's just no consistency, no-one wants to spend time chasing up on their investment or having to push you to get things done. Try to take on a proactive approach rather than a reactive one. Resolve situations before they occur rather than after. If that approach had been taken from day 1 your investors would have seen a 20% return on investment by now and your RL wallet would be $1500 USD fatter
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.20 20:53:00 - [312] Originally by: Feyloan @Atherin: I would not have a problem with giving account details to a trusted individual to keep watch, HOWEVER, the beauty of this project is that I only HAVE to be online in Eve when the copies are produced, as this is the only time critical to success. I also will have more time again for eve once this month is over. I don't see that as "beauty" when you weren't even able to find time to be on the 5 minutes you HAD to be online during the time that was "critical to success". Namely when the BPCs needed to be sold.
Jen Newb	Posted - 2008.02.23 21:32:00 - [313] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Stuff I agree 100%
Bitter Brain Bitter Old Men	Posted - 2008.02.23 21:45:00 - [314] Jen Newb is my alt I agree with what he says
Slasher Arcana	Posted - 2008.02.24 13:11:00 - [315] What IS happening? It's been 21 days since the 3rd of Feb...
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:37:00 - [316] I just advised Feyloan of this post, he should respond very shortly. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.02.24 23:40:00 - [317] Originally by: Atherin Gaius I don't see that as "beauty" when you weren't even able to find time to be on the 5 minutes you HAD to be online during the time that was "critical to success". Namely when the BPCs needed to be sold. The 5 minutes I have to be on not to loose time are when the copies come out and I put the BPOs back in for copying/ As I said above, with regards to selling, there was a decrease in demand pre patch this month, and that was visible in the price of the BPCs. As such, I did not want to sell them wildly below value. As for the update, all I had to say was posted above. There will be a 7th BPO being added to the corp, which will also be locked down in ZZZ. The shares have all been redistributed, and as such, all can run smoothly again as planned. Bakimi has set up the first contract as well now, there will be one going up each day. Todays is the Charon, tomorrows will be an Obelisk, I invite you to check / monitor, whatever you please. --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.02.27 13:03:00 - [318] There are now 4 BPCs on Contracts, all under Bakimi. 2 more are currently in my possession for contracting, 1 Charon and 1 Obelisk BPC. The next round of copies is also going to be ready within the week, so expect some nice divies the next 14 days. --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.28 18:42:00 - [319] i see three on contract....so I am hoping that one sold. are you going to be doing a ME research on the BPOs? it seems that many of the other BPCs on contract have ME of 1 or higher. Also, have you made a post on the sell forum. That may also help move the BPCs faster.
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.02.29 10:14:00 - [320] The BPO to be added will give the corp 7 BPOs, 1 or 2 will then be put into ME Research (depending on pricing and dividends, if I can achieve the goal with "only" 5 copies, then I will do that for long term growth) --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...

Shadarle	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:01:00 - [321] I am shocked you're adding more BPO's at this point in time... when basically every other person with freighter BPO's is looking to unload them due to falling profits. Prices are dropping like lead balloons on these things because everyone and their brother, including IPO's like this one, thought they'd get rich copying them. Every day you waste selling them is a potential loss of profit, just FYI. Within a 4-5 months it is likely these copies will likely be selling for 100 mil or less... which means a 4% monthly ROI or so. I'd strongly suggest you stop buying new BPO's... but it's of course your own choice.
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:39:00 - [322] Originally by: Shadarle I am shocked you're adding more BPO's at this point in time... when basically every other person with freighter BPO's is looking to unload them due to falling profits. Prices are dropping like lead balloons on these things because everyone and their brother, including IPO's like this one, thought they'd get rich copying them. Every day you waste selling them is a potential loss of profit, just FYI. Within a 4-5 months it is likely these copies will likely be selling for 100 mil or less... which means a 4% monthly ROI or so. I'd strongly suggest you stop buying new BPO's... but it's of course your own choice. At the end of the day, the 12,5 bilion isk raised allows the purchase of a 7th BPO, that is all I am doing, using the isk saved by going to ZZZ. Also it will enable me to start ME research, giving a higher selling potential. Dividends will be coming tonight by the way, at which point two more contracts will be going up. --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Egne Ver Caldari The Reckoning	Posted - 2008.03.05 09:44:00 - [323] Edited by: Egne Ver on 05/03/2008 09:44:18 nm Originally by: CCP kieron If you feel we as an entity are corrupt and abhorrent, we bid you good luck in finding a game and company that suits your interests. i.e. If you dont like it quit
Slasher Arcana	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:35:00 - [324] Originally by: Feyloan Originally by: Shadarle I am shocked you're adding more BPO's at this point in time... when basically every other person with freighter BPO's is looking to unload them due to falling profits. Prices are dropping like lead balloons on these things because everyone and their brother, including IPO's like this one, thought they'd get rich copying them. Every day you waste selling them is a potential loss of profit, just FYI. Within a 4-5 months it is likely these copies will likely be selling for 100 mil or less... which means a 4% monthly ROI or so. I'd strongly suggest you stop buying new BPO's... but it's of course your own choice. At the end of the day, the 12,5 bilion isk raised allows the purchase of a 7th BPO, that is all I am doing, using the isk saved by going to ZZZ. Also it will enable me to start ME research, giving a higher selling potential. Dividends will be coming tonight by the way, at which point two more contracts will be going up. I hate to nag but what's the status?
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:06:00 - [325] Originally by: Feyloan Also it will enable me to start ME research, giving a higher selling potential. Just curious, how much experience do you have selling these things? As far as I can tell ME makes 0 difference now that supply is so incredibly large and demand is mostly from T2 producers. But that's just my opinion. Now, if you want to sell the BPO at some point then ME1 is important indeed. Though I'd say that just because you have spare money sitting around doesn't mean you have to use it... sometimes it is better to give it back to the investors then to invest it in a dying business model. But again, that's just my opinion. I do happen to have a lot of experience on this topic though.
Herodian Minmatar Gladius Noctem	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:36:00 - [326] Originally by: Feyloan Dividends will be coming tonight by the way, at which point two more contracts will be going up. Which tonight were you referring to? A good dividend makes for a good everything else... ;-)
Slasher Arcana	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:52:00 - [327] Originally by: Herodian Originally by: Feyloan Dividends will be coming tonight by the way, at which point two more contracts will be going up. Which tonight were you referring to? Two tonights have come and gone.
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.03.06 16:55:00 - [328] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Feyloan Also it will enable me to start ME research, giving a higher selling potential. Just curious, how much experience do you have selling these things? As far as I can tell ME makes 0 difference now that supply is so incredibly large and demand is mostly from T2 producers. But that's just my opinion. Now, if you want to sell the BPO at some point then ME1 is important indeed. Though I'd say that just because you have spare money sitting around doesn't mean you have to use it... sometimes it is better to give it back to the investors then to invest it in a dying business model. But again, that's just my opinion. I do happen to have a lot of experience on this topic though. I agree on the part that Tech 2 are the main buyers. However the ones getting higher prices are BPC's with ME research on them, due to Tech 2 guys not caring which ones to buy, and the builders looking more for BPCs with ME on them (this is what I have noticed monitoring the market the last 3 months, please correct me if I am wrong). As to the dividend payments, unfortunately the two copies which were contracted to sell that evening didn't, however a Fenrir and a Charon now have sold, so there will finally be iskies... --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
VO Mathilda Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.03.23 19:54:00 - [329] So what's happening whit this IPO?? Haven't gotten an update in ages!! Regards VO Mathilda
Feyloan VisionTek Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.03.25 10:06:00 - [330] Dividend of 300 mio will be distributed either this evening or tomorrow evening --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...

VO Mathilda	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:19:00 - [331] So how are things doing? Update?
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.04.12 23:07:00 - [332] seen a couple dividend payments.
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.04.14 07:54:00 - [333] Tomorrow evening 2 Obe BPC will be going up, another full set should start going up the end of the week. --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.04.29 10:40:00 - [334] The dividend for those two was paid, the final BPC I have in Stock is up for sale, should pay out tonight or tomorrow. Should get another Stock of BPC's in soon, need to look at what happens with ZZZ, could be that the "rent" goes up so significantly that we will have to revert back to the original POS plan. Feyloan --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.05.14 13:06:00 - [335] I have the Stock now, and the first BPC will be going up for sale either this evening or tomorrow evening, but definately in time to give a juicy dividend out at the weekend. In other news, I will be continuing with ZZZ (which changed ownership if you hadn't realised) for the fixed amount, so costs will not be increasing, however we are going to be copying using Advanced Labs from now on. Also, the 1,5 Billion which was left over as cash in the Corp will not be used to buy another BPO. I have thought long and hard about this, and the people expressing doubts were right. Instead, it will be used to initiate a 1,3 Billion ISK buyback offering at 100% of original share price, leaving some ISK in the corp. Regards, Feyloan --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Daeva Vios New Eden Credit Bureau	Posted - 2008.05.14 14:17:00 - [336] I must admit, after a rocky start I'm relatively pleased with this project. ------------------------------------- NECB
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2008.05.23 01:57:00 - [337] so this thing is still ongoing then? Would be nice if the IPO Owner got in touch with myself.
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.05.26 11:00:00 - [338] Originally by: Yarden Tajj so this thing is still ongoing then? Would be nice if the IPO Owner got in touch with myself. Hi Yarden, Will do, I'll be in touch this evening, when I get home from work. Would have done so sooner, however I have you bookmarkt on the alt leading the IPO, rather than on my main. Feyloan --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
Kara Talisman	Posted - 2008.05.27 08:31:00 - [339] Hi, Does this company have any relation to the Praetoria Shipyards company who are currently firesaling stock in the amarr system? If so i'd be worried. Karax
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2008.05.27 08:37:00 - [340] Originally by: Kara Talisman Hi, Does this company have any relation to the Praetoria Shipyards company who are currently firesaling stock in the amarr system? If so i'd be worried. Karax No I don't think so. By the looks of it they are roleplayers for the amarr empire

Mr Fubar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:46:00 - [341] Edited by: Mr Fubar on 14/06/2008 03:49:04 Edited by: Mr Fubar on 14/06/2008 03:48:13 Q: Will you ever buy back shares? A: Shares will be bought back at any time, however with two restrictions. They will be locked for the first 6 Weeks, and until 1st March 2008 I will require one weeks Notice (that is maximum, it most likely will not be required, it is just a safety precaution). Buyback will be at 90% of price until 1st of March 2008, thereafter it will be 95%. I request to have you buy back my Billion isk in shares been a great investment but I need the cash now i guess I only get back 95% =( better than nothing. Thanks a bil. =========================== Mr Fubar
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.06.14 07:04:00 - [342] Send me the shares Fubar along with an evemail. I will wire you the funds when I get home from work in about 7 hours. I will pay full price for them (100%)
Feyloan	Posted - 2008.06.14 09:05:00 - [343] Edited by: Feyloan on 14/06/2008 09:05:07 Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Send me the shares Fubar along with an evemail. I will wire you the funds when I get home from work in about 7 hours. I will pay full price for them (100%) Ebank actually want to raise their stake o.O I'm flattered, considering the returns haven't been as high as I'd like. I have just talked to Fubar myself, the Corp is going to buy back the 1,000 shares, which will hopefully increase the monthly dividend. Feyloan Edit: To answer the question above, no, we do not have anything to do with the Shipyards --------- A good mind makes for a good everything else...
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:12:00 - [344] I have been watching our financials and I have seen the consistency that wasn't present when you first started here. It took you some time to find your bearing but looks like you might be heading in the right direction. So keep it up


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