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baltec1
507
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Posted - 2012.01.29 23:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Valentyn3 wrote:Don't use jet cans for mining? So old that forgot when you was new and flew ships that could not hold more then tiny amounts of ore?
Get a friend to haul it. |
baltec1
507
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Posted - 2012.01.29 23:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:
All noobs can do effectively is "carebear". You cant take them to W-Space or Null right away. They need skill books, they want to stay close to their starting locations, they want to wander around. And they not used to idea that ship is expendable. And they dont like that idea. It takes some time for them to get used to it and gain experience. All what flippers and gankers effectively do is making people angry and out of the game.
Yes you can. |
baltec1
507
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Posted - 2012.01.30 00:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:I don't see a problem with flippers... maybe thats because I learned the first time it happened not to shoot/take from the can.
And for the record, when I was a noob I didn't jetcan mine after the first incident... I flew back and forth in my little frigate. Aptly named the Tormentor. When i was a noob i learned that too. But when we both were noobs can flippers as it seems wasn't that much of a problem. Today is a whole different story. If you not jetcan they just fly in and bump you interfering with your activities. At least that what i hear'd from people in High sec. I'm not in High and not imagining myself there. But i know a few noob corps run by friends. It's worse then it was when i was noob.
It is exactly the same from when I first started mining in my ibis for a domi mothership. |
baltec1
507
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Posted - 2012.01.30 00:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:
Again for the last time. Not the point of the post.
Point of the post: Want more players in? Make it fun for new players. Not angry, not hard work for them. Or keep your playerbase at the very slowly rising or sometimes sharply falling levels. People play games to have fun. As far as game definition goes.
EvE has never done anything but grow year on year so CCP does not need to gut its core gameplay to get more numbers in. |
baltec1
508
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Posted - 2012.01.30 00:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote: I beg to differ. We had a 20 million Sp requirement on our Wormhole Corp for a reason. Take a Newb into an environment like that, and the best they can hope for is waiting until they can train up Gas-mining, mining, or scanning effectively enough to do something with it. Even then, it's not going to happen overnight, and they are still going to be sitting on their arses for the most part.
This |
baltec1
514
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Posted - 2012.01.30 11:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have been playing for years and had one gank attempt upon one of my industry ships. I looted his stuff and sld it in jita with the rest of my cargo.
Industrial ships a VERY easy to tank to survive a gank. |
baltec1
516
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Posted - 2012.01.30 11:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:I'm simply going to have to disagree with your opinion on the matter as I feel we are simply diometrically opposed on two ends of a valid spectrum, Tippia.
All I see is you arguing your case with extremes selfishly in a deperate attempt to maintain any position in game. And I'm sorry I've lost quite a bit of respect for your opinion as a result.
And whilst I might be championing the "industrial/trader" case, freely admit it. But I'm also trying to advocate PvP improvements and fun here for all for non-selfish reasons. There is no call for removal of mechanics, I'm not trying to prevent something exclusively, no. In essence I'm trying to make a compromise as usual.
Does this mean that some "carebear" types might provide challenging views of "dumbing" the game down to the point of pointlesness asking for "cotton wool" mechanics? Yes, I've seen many an example of this and I also don't like the immunity approach.
But my view is there is simply too much in favour of criminal "suicide ganking" with gaming mechanics and just how it works. And as such more consequential outcomes and difficulty needs to be applied to the ganking process. Wether you like that view or not will not change the opinion, as I have explained.
Maybe I should just change my entire view on the subject and start being obstinatley self interested also and ask for complete immunity in High sec and stuff the EvE gaming community interests, seems to be the accepted "status quo". Lets just let EvE go to the wall, who cares.
There is not an imbalance in favor of gankers. There are more than enough tools to stop yourself from getting ganked, the fact that people chose not to use them is not an argument for further nerfs to pirates. |
baltec1
516
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Posted - 2012.01.30 12:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Pure fact that this thread grew so big means that people do care and feel that there must be some changes to either way means this is something that worth the discussion and attention from both the CSM and CCP. Thank you.
90% of this thread is everyone telling you you are wrong. |
baltec1
516
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Posted - 2012.01.30 12:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:baltec1 wrote: There is not an imbalance in favor of gankers. There are more than enough tools to stop yourself from getting ganked, the fact that people chose not to use them is not an argument for further nerfs to pirates.
When hulks cannot get consistantly get knocked out of the sky from a handfull of destroyers regardless of whatever shield fits they put on them and at significantly less assest cost to themselves I will beleive you. Until then sorry, just another dont touch my area of the game, don't care about you comment. Bring on a working bounty system, bring on corrective war changes, bring back the fun. Pinata bashing doesnt interest me or the losers who participate in it.
Hulks can easily tank a gank brutix all the way up to an alpha tempest. |
baltec1
516
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Posted - 2012.01.30 12:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote: Like salt makes food more tasty. But put too much of it and you throw the dish out. I would not imagine eve without gankers or flippers. It would be terribly boring for newbies too. But there must be way more balancing to flipping and especially ganking mechanics.
No, people just need to learn to not be stupid. |
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baltec1
516
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Posted - 2012.01.30 13:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Baltec1 we argue for ages on these forums and not once you suggested anything, just all denials and not a breeze of fresh air from you. Offer something creative or beneficial to anyone and don't say Eve is perfect. It's far from it and that's a good thing.
What part of tank your ships is so hard to get? How many ways is it possible to say this same thing over and over again before it get through to you that there are many ways to defend yourself in high sec or avoid the chance of getting ganked all together?
I suggest that you use the current tools in game rather than whining on the forums for CCP to protect you. |
baltec1
517
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Posted - 2012.01.30 13:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:
What part of a sentence "I don't live in high sec" you missed? And I don't ask for advise. I asked for discussion which seems to be going well. So either give ideas or base your argumentson something more then "no because I say no."
What does it matter where you live in relation to your topic?
Also, please re-read what I put, its clear you didn't read it before typing out that reply. |
baltec1
517
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Posted - 2012.01.30 13:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:
Still trollin as usual Baltec? Well, everyone gets fun in their own field.
What really surprised me though is that a lot of ppl assumed I'm a carebear just because I put up a topic on ppl that left this game thanks to flips and ganks. How the hell that makes me a carebear in their minds I fail to understand.
Ok riddle me this
Blocade runner fitted with a cov ops cloak, agility mods in the lows, AB and tank in the mids using insta undocks from stations.
How would you gank this in high sec? |
baltec1
518
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Posted - 2012.01.30 13:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:
Can noob fly that? No. Can relatively new player fly that? No if he's not industrial.
Who said I'm against that king of ganks on gates? I am for that! I am against stupid ganking of new players and in proportion of 3 Lokis vs 1 Navitas.
An iteron V can get 22k ehp and 350 dps tanked |
baltec1
518
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Posted - 2012.01.30 14:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote: Does newbie know how to fit it or have skills?
If their cargo is worth ganking for then they have played long enough to get the skills to tank an iteron V.
If not, Badger, 14k EHP and 2x t2 warp core stabs, trainable in a matter of weeks. |
baltec1
518
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Posted - 2012.01.31 00:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
I see my fittings advice was quickly forgotten. |
baltec1
518
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Posted - 2012.01.31 10:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mars Theran wrote: I beg to differ. We had a 20 million Sp requirement on our Wormhole Corp for a reason. Take a Newb into an environment like that, and the best they can hope for is waiting until they can train up Gas-mining, mining, or scanning effectively enough to do something with it. Even then, it's not going to happen overnight, and they are still going to be sitting on their arses for the most part.
This It's a wormhole Baltec. You get podded it's a one-way trip back to highsec, and you're probably not going to find a way back for a week or two. Do you honestly think one 4-5 minute fight resulting in two weeks seperated from your Corpmates in Highsec is fun?
So teach them. Get them probing, salvage, building stuff, scouting wormhole exits ect. If they die, find your WH exit and have them come back. The skills a little nubbins can learn out in a WH are invaluable and even if they decide its not for them they will at least have a much better grasp of the game thanks to you.
Grabbing a nubbins early is one of the best things to do if you want to expand a corp as most of them want to learn and are very keen to do things. Give them a rifter, a MWD and a warp disrupter and just watch them fly in and try to tackle a dread in the middle of a fight.
The best way to help nubs is to snap them up and teach them, stuffing more cotton wool around them will only result in greater rage quits when they do something stupid in an even more expensive ship. |
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