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Holy Cheater
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 01:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Holy Cheater on 19/11/2007 01:10:32
Maelstrom & Vargur (really don't know what to fit to the remaining 3 hi-slots on Vargur)
Disadvantages of Maelstrom:
- it has less cargohold
- if you fit tractorbeam, it will have only 20km optimal, but this is not really disappointing
- has 50% less falloff
Advantages:
- More tank (I can't change the PDS on Vargur to DC cause I won't have enough PG to fit 800mm ACs + MWD + Capbooster)
- More damage: +1 heavy drone (difference is minimal, but the fact is still the fact)
- It won't be 100% jammed with one racial jammer.
- It is VERY cheap comparing to Vargur.
- It needs less skills.
This were an example based on pvp-gang fitting, I don't think that the comparsion of any different variants of these ships will give some valuable advantages to Vargur versus Maelstrom. I really don't see the point of preferring Vargur in it's current form to Maelstrom. Could someone explain?
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar
The Nest
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Posted - 2007.11.19 02:51:00 -
[2]
for pvp vargur is pointless, maelstrom does it all for far less money
its purely a pve ship
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
FSK23
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Posted - 2007.11.19 03:16:00 -
[3]
Right now I think the best fitting for those last 3 highslots is nothing at all.
Simply take the 43% reduction in heat damage and overload them.
--
[17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar
Pyrrhus Sicarii
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:40:00 -
[4]
You forgot the Vargur tracking bonus, and the fact it has high slots you can use for something other than turrets, reduced ammo consumption because of the 100% turret damage bonus, and slightly better resists. None of those are game-breaking OMG awesome hax advantages, but they aren't really designed to be. It's for PVE and for people who have too much money and want to use it in PVP.
However, you are right in noting that the powergrid of the Vargur is pre-nerfed to prevent its use as an omg best sniper ever. Which also has the side effect of nerfing other useful setups...sigh.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 11:50:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Adam Weishaupt
You forgot the Vargur tracking bonus, and the fact it has high slots you can use for something other than turrets, reduced ammo consumption because of the 100% turret damage bonus, and slightly better resists. None of those are game-breaking OMG awesome hax advantages, but they aren't really designed to be. It's for PVE and for people who have too much money and want to use it in PVP.
However, you are right in noting that the powergrid of the Vargur is pre-nerfed to prevent its use as an omg best sniper ever. Which also has the side effect of nerfing other useful setups...sigh.
Which also in part nerfs its PvE ability in a mission running sense since very few people running missions in minmatar ships are likely to go close range most of the time they burn away shooting rats with artys as they go falloff will only make up for that to a very small extent.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.11.19 12:36:00 -
[6]
You forget the falloff bonus. A vargur will pretty much outdamage a maelstrom at pretty much any range above optimal i guess, and AC ships dont tend to fight at optimal much. And due to that tracking bonus it would probably still outdamage a maelstrom in many realistic scenarios even within optimal range.
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Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 12:54:00 -
[7]
Train for a Golem. Its a beast and we all know that Minnie battleships have been nerfed to useless because carebears dying to one volley artillery shots is so unfair.
You know it makes sense.
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iiOs
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Posted - 2007.11.19 15:12:00 -
[8]
where did you get EFT for sisi ?
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RaTTuS
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.19 15:55:00 -
[9]
Edited by: RaTTuS on 19/11/2007 16:00:23
Vargur - this is a A/C boat - you can fit Artillery if you want but it makes a bit of a pain [and why not 1400's]
but it deffo screams for being an A/C fit - try it.
edit...
right should of read properly everything first
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & RaTTuS Home
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Nameless Founder
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Posted - 2007.12.03 10:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Nameless Founder on 03/12/2007 10:56:31
Forget about trying to set up the Vargur to do anything useful tbh, its so low on powergrid that you cant fit anything, you'll have to wonder what the devs were smoking when they designed it. The maelstrom does it all equally good, though I'd still prefer the tempest any day (for pvp purposes).
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ChowChow
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Posted - 2007.12.03 11:54:00 -
[11]
How do you make tempests useful in close up gang fights?
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Corvac
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.03 11:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: ChowChow
How do you make tempests useful in close up gang fights?
By not doing close up fights, and sniping them instead!
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Vecila
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Posted - 2007.12.03 12:15:00 -
[13]
The grid (though tight) is fine for pve, for a pvp ship really look else where unless your loaded. Melstorm is cheper, tempest is more enjoyable, both are easier to fit and harder to jam - with this patch the only ewar were ever going to ecm, making my arazu look/perform like a flying poo isn't helping.
As for the op if your pvp and cant fit neuts stick 3 off lined ti mods in there with high heat hp and resistance, makes a superb buffer.
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Saino Feel
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Posted - 2007.12.03 13:31:00 -
[14]
Err, its not a good PVE ship either, and definately not for missions. Want to run missions with autocannons, when you cant use a MWD to get in range quick? Good luck. Want to do missions against stuff with high EXP resist so you cant use barrage? Good luck.
It'll be good for ratting, that is all. Fit mwd+tank+ac+salvager+cloak, and go hide when someone enter local, for everything else it'll be a total waste.
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lueria
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Posted - 2007.12.03 13:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Saino Feel
Err, its not a good PVE ship either, and definately not for missions. Want to run missions with autocannons, when you cant use a MWD to get in range quick? Good luck. Want to do missions against stuff with high EXP resist so you cant use barrage? Good luck.
It'll be good for ratting, that is all. Fit mwd+tank+ac+salvager+cloak, and go hide when someone enter local, for everything else it'll be a total waste.
Why would you fit a mwd when your guns (in falloff) will hit further than any rat spawns off a belt. Srsly fit one, check the range and actually use it against rats before saying that.
We had three weeks of "omg golem suck cnr is quicker" then after three weeks *****ing without actually checking then someone actually though they'ed try it and oh look, turns out golem's quicker. Same thing here.
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Miriam Mar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Miriam Mar on 03/12/2007 14:28:51
Good luck slowboating towards a spawn 60km away, with your guns missing 3/4th of their shots due to extreme falloff range being total complete suck. Only idiots fly autocannon ships without propulsion mods.
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ColwirthMB
Minmatar
Nocturnal Damnation Corp
Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:43:00 -
[17]
Thats what a AB is for :| I got up to 515 or so with a 100ab, whats wrong with that?
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Tradesman Mcgee
Caldari
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.12.03 15:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tradesman Mcgee on 03/12/2007 15:32:24
Meh, afterburners suck. Stuck in a bubble? MWD back to the gate! Win!
Vargur = not enough room to fit big guns + tank + mwd, even with TWO freaking RCUs = worthless excuse for a ship.
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Research & Trade |
ericret
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Posted - 2007.12.03 17:03:00 -
[19]
The designers of the marauders should be ashamed. Spending so much time and money, and failing so hard to make them somewhat balanced. Go go Gallente!
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Edelhonk
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Posted - 2007.12.04 15:31:00 -
[20]
tbh...the whole comparsion only show how horrible overpowered the Maelstrom is, no other ship can have such a damageoutput and have a extrem Tank + very long lasting cap at the same time.
Not the Vargur is underpowered, no the Mael is totaly overpowered.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.04 15:40:00 -
[21]
fit it out like this
T/_/T/_/T/_/T
this way when you overheat your turrets they all have heat sinks!
or put some beefy offlined modules I'm not sure which is better yet.
and no it's not a good PvP ship, it's not a gaint HAC.
don't forget the tracking, or the resistances, great for missions.
Official fanboy of jenny<
pink supporter!
looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Ina Mina
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Posted - 2007.12.04 16:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Edelhonk
tbh...the whole comparsion only show how horrible overpowered the Maelstrom is, no other ship can have such a damageoutput and have a extrem Tank + very long lasting cap at the same time.
Not the Vargur is underpowered, no the Mael is totaly overpowered.
You sir, have no clue. How many people do you see actually flying maelstroms in pvp? I sure as hell dont meet many of them, surely there is a reason for that? The Vargur is crap, and the Mael is a big slow immobile ship that screams out "ARGH, I'm stuck in a bubble!"
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RaTTuS
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.12.04 16:13:00 -
[23]
top slots :-
2 tractor beams
1 salvager
maurder skill will up the range of the tractor beams [40KM @ level 4]
this ship is a mision runner
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting
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Edelhonk
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Posted - 2007.12.04 16:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ina Mina
Originally by: Edelhonk
tbh...the whole comparsion only show how horrible overpowered the Maelstrom is, no other ship can have such a damageoutput and have a extrem Tank + very long lasting cap at the same time.
Not the Vargur is underpowered, no the Mael is totaly overpowered.
You sir, have no clue. How many people do you see actually flying maelstroms in pvp? I sure as hell dont meet many of them, surely there is a reason for that? The Vargur is crap, and the Mael is a big slow immobile ship that screams out "ARGH, I'm stuck in a bubble!"
every single BS is like that, we are talking about group ganking with the BS as Damagedealer/tank. Try to fit every other BS so it has the same damage output AND tank and has the same Cap time...you will fail...no other ship can do this.
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Hatch
Minmatar
Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2007.12.04 18:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Edelhonk
Originally by: Ina Mina
Originally by: Edelhonk
tbh...the whole comparsion only show how horrible overpowered the Maelstrom is, no other ship can have such a damageoutput and have a extrem Tank + very long lasting cap at the same time.
Not the Vargur is underpowered, no the Mael is totaly overpowered.
You sir, have no clue. How many people do you see actually flying maelstroms in pvp? I sure as hell dont meet many of them, surely there is a reason for that? The Vargur is crap, and the Mael is a big slow immobile ship that screams out "ARGH, I'm stuck in a bubble!"
every single BS is like that, we are talking about group ganking with the BS as Damagedealer/tank. Try to fit every other BS so it has the same damage output AND tank and has the same Cap time...you will fail...no other ship can do this.
I'd wager that you have no clue as to how to properly fit a maelstrom. you never fit for damage+tank on it. it is one or the other. Go whine up someone elses battleship, preferably one you know how to fit and quit complaining about how we can one shot your coveter
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Terex193
Amarr
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:28:00 -
[26]
well from my experiences on test server,I've seen a lot from the Varguar, but its dps is not so good compared to the Mealstorm, Plus the Varguars tanking capabilities aren't all that good as there good tanks can't defend themselves against a battleship or two, I get really bored at bf 1 in my carrier and I lock and watch various battles, and I've seen a very well tanked Varguar just get destroyed by a barely tanked T1 Raven, I believe Marauders should be boosted altogether, and I don't think there 1k Cargo Hold is going to do any good in PvP.
Insert Catchy Signature Here
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Edelhonk
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:29:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Edelhonk on 04/12/2007 19:31:02
Originally by: Hatch
Originally by: Edelhonk
Originally by: Ina Mina
Originally by: Edelhonk
tbh...the whole comparsion only show how horrible overpowered the Maelstrom is, no other ship can have such a damageoutput and have a extrem Tank + very long lasting cap at the same time.
Not the Vargur is underpowered, no the Mael is totaly overpowered.
You sir, have no clue. How many people do you see actually flying maelstroms in pvp? I sure as hell dont meet many of them, surely there is a reason for that? The Vargur is crap, and the Mael is a big slow immobile ship that screams out "ARGH, I'm stuck in a bubble!"
every single BS is like that, we are talking about group ganking with the BS as Damagedealer/tank. Try to fit every other BS so it has the same damage output AND tank and has the same Cap time...you will fail...no other ship can do this.
I'd wager that you have no clue as to how to properly fit a maelstrom. you never fit for damage+tank on it. it is one or the other. Go whine up someone elses battleship, preferably one you know how to fit and quit complaining about how we can one shot your coveter
a good fitted T2 mael can tank over 850 dps (with a full Crystal set this goes up over 1300 without any downs for the damage) has a damage output over 970 dps with T1 ammo over 20km rang and can run a run this over a time from 9 min (without Microwarpdrive runing, 1min20sec with microwarp runing)
Show my one single fitting on any other BS that reaches this numbers without using Complex or fraction moduls.
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Crux Australis
MotorSaikol LadrUNZ
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:52:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Crux Australis on 04/12/2007 20:53:25
Fraction moduls are wonderful if used with turrents, pity that you can't fit them on kestrals...
edit: typo
moduls not models
Originally by: Tuxford
Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
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Navick
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Posted - 2007.12.04 21:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
Right now I think the best fitting for those last 3 highslots is nothing at all.
Simply take the 43% reduction in heat damage and overload them.
Or you could stick a highslot module of ANY kind between each of your turrets, and leave those three modules offline to act as heat-sinks for overloading
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