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Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently, Marauders are a little underwhelming with respects to their cost, skill point requirement, and performance. This is mostly a sum of the the introduction of the Noctis, which has made salvaging "in mission" inefficient compared to reshipping for a Noctis, and the Faction battleship buff which has reduced their overall performance "rating".
Many people ask for a new Marauder based on the 3rd tier BS hull. I believe this is pointless and all we really need is for the current batch of Marauders to become competitive.
I would propose that the first fix should be to drop the tractor beam bonus in favour of something far more useful. Examples of useful bonuses would be: A range bonus for energy vampires A bonus to Capacitor Booster boost amount A bonus to Armour Repairer / Shield Booster Cycle duration (faster rep cycles) A bonus to Armour Repairer / Shield Booster capacitor usage (cheaper reps)
Just something useful would be great. In order to keep long range tractor beams perhaps medium and large tractor beams could be introduced with fitting requirements that match being fit to larger ships.
Next, because of the advent of wormhole and incursion PvE and Marauders are supposed to be the "Kings of PvE", I propose that these ships have some form of spider tanking bonus. The best option would be to give them a bonus to the remote repair or shield transporter amount received instead of making them battleship sized logistics ships. This would make these ships very competitive when being used in PvE situations where logistics is required (incursion / wh sites).
Another option which is a little radical would be to give Marauders the EWAR immunity bonus. This bonus coupled with the CCP proposed Electronic Attack Frigate buff which gives them the ability to use EWAR against EWAR immune ships would not only give Marauders a place in the PvP environment but would also give the proposed EAF's more value as they would be useful in the sub capital ship PvP environment.
Any other ideas, please share them! If any of these ideas "float your boat" don't forget to hit the like button. It's how CCP see well received community ideas! |

Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 09:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Any feedback? |

VIP Ares
BALKAN EXPRESS
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 09:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
I use Marauder, and I do not salvage on the fly. As you stated, it is more efficient to come back with Noctis and salvage after mission.
Marauders should get same "salvaging" bonueses as Noctis.
EWAR immunity is out of question, they have low senesor strength now to make them less desirable for PVP. Becasue they are not meant to PVP. http://vipares.griefwatch.net |

hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 10:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
I know only about 1/4 of the problem you're describing as I mostly fly Gallente ships, and in most part only for PvE. And in this regard I don't think Kronos so badly needs to be buffed. As it is, it outperforms every subcapital, regular and T2 ship in the fed fleet. Now the Vindicator is better but only because of Crucible's buff to hybrid PG/CPU, and only by small margin. Small enough so I don't feel obliged to use either and I can choose: when I want it to do with coolness and style I do it with Vindi and when I want it easy, or safe, I do it with Kronos.
I don't agree with tractor buffing. T2 modules already give nice 48km range and the Noctis IS meant for serious job. On personal note, what stops me from salvaging on the go is that both tasks, mission and salvaging, are quite absorbing on their own so combining them would mean wild clickfest and I don't think any bonus could fix that. |

The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 10:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Next, because of the advent of wormhole and incursion PvE and Marauders are supposed to be the "Kings of PvE", I propose that these ships have some form of spider tanking bonus. The best option would be to give them a bonus to the remote repair or shield transporter amount received instead of making them battleship sized logistics ships. This would make these ships very competitive when being used in PvE situations where logistics is required (incursion / wh sites).
In Incursions you use logis, in WH you use caps/logis to tank them. The reason for this is the low lock speed, RR range and that 10 locked targets are to short for cycling RR targets and still staying somewhat cap stable(a cap booster pvp like fitting is not useful for the PVE content you mentioned).
What marauders need is a quicker lock speed, a far lower sig, a normal sensor strength(srs gurista are still pain in the ass) and a resistance bonus instead of the active tanking bonus, to make them more attractive in pve content that relays on RR(you have less raw EHP, one slot and one rig slot less than faction BS, what more often then not makes the faction BS better in this situations). This will also help to bring the Vargur and Kronos into more use for Incursions, giving them slightly different focuses than the Mach / Vindi, atm only the pala gets used for the reason that it got a armor tank compared to the NM with the shield tank. |

Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
35
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 11:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm not sure if a salvaging bonus would help marauders that much. I was thinking something more like a capacitor helping module like a Nos bonus or cap booster bonus or rep cap usage bonus.-á
Why must a ship be purely PvE? Also the EWAR immunity idea fits well. If CCP gives EAFs the ability to use EWAR on ships that are immune then they become very valuable fleet assets. Coupled with the low sensor strengths of the marauder it will still be very easy to use EWAR to good effect. Which means the EAF would be very effect vs a marauder.-á Also, if you're EWAR immune, npc EWAR isn't going to effect you. This would mean that Marauders have an advantage over faction battleships for PvE.-á The Marauder would also be very useful for low sec PvE as you could only be tackled by a HIC infinite point on a gate or an EAF at a mission site.-á |

Chrizz NiKunni
Advanced Tactical Operations
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 11:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
As pilot of a Paladin Marauder, I often wonder if it was a good idea to spend so much ISK on a ship. The only reason to use the Paladin and not an Abaddon for example, are those 50% less amunition need. I don-¦t even have fitted a salvager, because as said before it is much faster to change to a noctis after the mission to clean up. It is not only the less time a noctis needs for all those wrecks in a lvl4 mission, it is also the fact that a noctis can carry all of the loot of a mission at once, and a marauder can-¦t.
What would be nice to have instead of the tractor-bonus would be some bonus for anything that can help a Marauder pilot to kill those webbing/scrambling frigates in missions. If you accidentally ran out of drones (forgot them in the room before) it can get very hard to finish a mission because there are only two scrambling frigs left 3km away, but you don-¦t hit them with your big guns....
So +1 to any idea to make marauders to what they are supposed to be, the gods of pve... |

Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
35
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 12:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Then hit the like button. That way a CCP slave can see the posts people like.
Saying "+1" doesn't register  |

Chrizz NiKunni
Advanced Tactical Operations
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 12:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Then hit the like button. That way a CCP slave can see the posts people like. Saying "+1" doesn't register 
I could hit "unlike", but I think that would not help much ;) |

Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
47
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 15:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:I'm not sure if a salvaging bonus would help marauders that much. I was thinking something more like a capacitor helping module like a Nos bonus or cap booster bonus or rep cap usage bonus.-á
Why must a ship be purely PvE? Also the EWAR immunity idea fits well. If CCP gives EAFs the ability to use EWAR on ships that are immune then they become very valuable fleet assets. Coupled with the low sensor strengths of the marauder it will still be very easy to use EWAR to good effect. Which means the EAF would be very effect vs a marauder.-á Also, if you're EWAR immune, npc EWAR isn't going to effect you. This would mean that Marauders have an advantage over faction battleships for PvE.-á The Marauder would also be very useful for low sec PvE as you could only be tackled by a HIC infinite point on a gate or an EAF at a mission site.-á
Anyone who has been in combat with SCs or sieged/triaged caps can attest to the annoyance of EWAR immunity. Give it to a sub cap ship with decent damage and EWAR capabilities of its own, and you're looking at a very overpowered ship. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |

Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
114
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 15:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think just some little things would help, slightly better speed, agility, and lock time to facilitate us out side of empire missioning. They need their weakness, but to help them be more viable in PvP putting them all up to 8 high slots would go a ways I bet. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
43
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fidelium Mortis wrote: Anyone who has been in combat with SCs or sieged/triaged caps can attest to the annoyance of EWAR immunity. Give it to a sub cap ship with decent damage and EWAR capabilities of its own, and you're looking at a very overpowered ship.
EWAR immunity could be coming to an abrupt end though now that CCP are looking at giving the EAF the ability to negate this bonus. I feel that giving this bonus to a select few sub-capital ships would benefit not only the ship that had the bonus but also the proposed new EAF as it would have value outside of capital ship fleets
|

Hans Momaki
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sorry, but no to your Ideas.
Marauders need a pure dmg buff, and a buff to dmg application and dmg range. They should be the best option for subcap PvE, and they are clearly not.
As Caldari pilot, I would prefer CNR over Golem pretty much everytime.
|

Sinooko
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
As before mentioned I would only buy a marauder for PvE if it was more effective against those damn scrambler frigates.
I would LOVE to use a marauder in PvP if it had bonuses to remote rep enabling them to spider tank. Also useful in wormholes against sleepers. |

Inferna Dragonfire
Advanced Tactical Operations
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 08:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sinooko wrote:As before mentioned I would only buy a marauder for PvE if it was more effective against those damn scrambler frigates.
In case of the Amarr Marauder Paladin, what about this: Add two turret-slots where only small or medium lasers can be fitted, and instead of that tractorbeam bonus ad a dmg or other bonus for that kind of weapon. Would make the Marauder more flexible against all kind of targets in missions, but has its weak point with that weak sensors.... For all other Marauders could be found a equal solution I guess... |

Wolodymyr
Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos
36
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 08:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well for pvp marauders I like the idea of a neut bonus, remote rep bonus, or something really weird like a smart bomb bonus. Or you could just give em 8 turret slots (or missiles for the caldari one).
Of if you wanted them to be high SP boats you could give each one 4 turret slots and 4 missile slots. Then people would have to train T2 large turrets, and T2 battleship scale missiles. |

m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
55
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
This thread is just full of no.
Marauders are not pvp boats. Giving them any kind of bonuses towards pvp would be ridiculous. No spider tanking. HELL no to 8 turret (or missile) points. Using half the ammo of other ships is one of the few good things left about marauders and you want to change that? Seriously?
And god no to cap booster bonuses. I hate cap boosters and I'll be damned if I'm gonna shove them on my mission boat. All of the marauders have enough drone bay to accommodate more than one flight of drones. Frigates should not be a problem. The Kronos and Paladin also have a web bonus... They don't need an immunity to ewar, they just need some help against Guristas f'ing jamming. I think it should be removed tbh. |

Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:This thread is just full of no.
Marauders are not pvp boats. Giving them any kind of bonuses towards pvp would be ridiculous. No spider tanking. HELL no to 8 turret (or missile) points. Using half the ammo of other ships is one of the few good things left about marauders and you want to change that? Seriously?
And god no to cap booster bonuses. I hate cap boosters and I'll be damned if I'm gonna shove them on my mission boat. All of the marauders have enough drone bay to accommodate more than one flight of drones. Frigates should not be a problem. The Kronos and Paladin also have a web bonus... They don't need an immunity to ewar, they just need some help against Guristas f'ing jamming. I think it should be removed tbh.
Why should a ship be designed purely for PvE? I believe one of the biggest issues in EvE is the fact that PvP and PvE are so different. They require exceptionally differently fitted ships from each other which scares people out of PvE'ing in low/null sec.
A Marauder is supposed to be able to PvE in hostile environments and the current PvE environment requires spider tanking not local active tanking (WH's and Incursions). To that end, wouldn't a remote repair received bonus suit Marauders?
What's wrong with fitting a cap booster to Marauders. With that cargo hold and all the PG left after only using 4 guns they seem to be designed for Cap boosted fits. By the way, I fit my Golem with a cap booster and a mate of mine fits his Paladin with one because it is far more efficient at blasting through missions than a stupid cap stable fit that requires far more slots. The cap booster is only really required when my tank is being tested for prolonged periods or when I've screwed up the aggro.
Do you seriously get a great benefit out of the tractor beam bonus? Wouldn't you prefer something far more useful like a bonus to shield booster or armour repairer cap usage? Or perhaps even like I said, a Cap Booster bonus so you don't burn through so many or require very large cap booster charges.
The current state of Marauders does unfortunately relegate them to second place for PvE as they're outperformed by faction BS's which can do, guess what, PvP AND PvE (Incursions/WH's and solo lvl 4 running). |

m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
55
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
I want the tractor bonus, but I want it improved. Give the marauders the same tractor bonus as the noctis then give them a bonus to cut salvager cycle time in half. That would fix the marauder vs noctis problem.
And you or whoever is using the Paladin is probably using pulses. You have much less PG when you've got tach's fit. I've got 6 spare PG left, that's it. |

Hans Momaki
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:I want the tractor bonus, but I want it improved. Give the marauders the same tractor bonus as the noctis then give them a bonus to cut salvager cycle time in half. That would fix the marauder vs noctis problem.
And the "Marauder vs faction BS" - problem?
|

Wolodymyr
Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos
38
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:HELL no to 8 turret (or missile) points. Using half the ammo of other ships is one of the few good things left about marauders and you want to change that? Seriously? Well if you really want to keep the old damage you are welcome to only fit 4 guns on your marauder.
But given the chance I'd love to combine the marauder's double damage bonus with 8 turrets |

m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
55
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 21:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't think that's what he meant. I'm thinking he meant remove that 100% bonus and give it something like a 5% per level bonus or something and have 8 guns fit. They need to leave it at 4 weapon hardpoints and give it like a 120% damage bonus or 100%+a per level bonus. But base it on the battleship, not marauder. The only thing that should be based on Marauders skill level is maybe tanking bonuses.
As for Marauders vs Faction: Lets look at the problems and arguments...
Resists. Most people say Marauders need a resist boost, I would have to disagree. They do get a little bit better resists (in their race's respective resist types), but not as much as smaller t2 ships. The marauders get a lot more buffer though. The only thing that does kinda suck it makes them a bit harder to omni-tank. If anything, give them a bit more resists across the board. Like the Kronos's massive explosive hole.
Damage. Even with Marauders 5, they're still hard pressed to get the same theoretical dps as faction ships. They don't need a huge buff, just a small one to bring them up to par with faction ships. Without Marauders 5. Having that at 5 should tip the scale and put them a little more powerful than faction. The other problem with this is faction battleships get bonuses that help them apply dps like the marauders. Vindi gets webs, Nightmare gets tracking bonus (which the Paladin simply can't match). The Vargur vs Macharial is fairly well done, imo. I don't see any problems here really. Golem vs CNR... I'm not really sure honestly. I haven't flown a Golem. I would use cruise missiles simply because of the range of torps. It does get a bit less damage than the cnr, but it also gets a couple bonuses to help it apply damage much better than a cnr, so I think it would get the same or better hits than a cnr. I'm not talking eft damage, I'm talking about real in game damage.
Price. They're about the same. There is no reason a marauder should be getting less DPS as a whole.
Sensor Strength/Scan Res. There is no damn reason this should be so gimped. The ONLY advantage a marauder would have over a faction battleship is the 3 free high slots. The argument is to keep marauders out of PvP. But what's the point? Even with the three spare highs, they are not going to be one stop killing machines. This may have made since when they were introduced, but it doesn't now. With faction ships becoming more and more common, this point is now moot and needs removed. |

Hans Momaki
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:I don't think that's what he meant. I'm thinking he meant remove that 100% bonus and give it something like a 5% per level bonus or something and have 8 guns fit. They need to leave it at 4 weapon hardpoints and give it like a 120% damage bonus or 100%+a per level bonus. But base it on the battleship, not marauder. The only thing that should be based on Marauders skill level is maybe tanking bonuses.
As for Marauders vs Faction: Lets look at the problems and arguments...
Resists. Most people say Marauders need a resist boost, I would have to disagree. They do get a little bit better resists (in their race's respective resist types), but not as much as smaller t2 ships. The marauders get a lot more buffer though. The only thing that does kinda suck it makes them a bit harder to omni-tank. If anything, give them a bit more resists across the board. Like the Kronos's massive explosive hole.
Golem has 27,5% more resists compared to CNR. Imho a bit low. But this is the last thing to worry about.
Quote: Damage. Even with Marauders 5, they're still hard pressed to get the same theoretical dps as faction ships. They don't need a huge buff, just a small one to bring them up to par with faction ships. Without Marauders 5. Having that at 5 should tip the scale and put them a little more powerful than faction. The other problem with this is faction battleships get bonuses that help them apply dps like the marauders. Vindi gets webs, Nightmare gets tracking bonus (which the Paladin simply can't match). The Vargur vs Macharial is fairly well done, imo. I don't see any problems here really. Golem vs CNR... I'm not really sure honestly. I haven't flown a Golem. I would use cruise missiles simply because of the range of torps. It does get a bit less damage than the cnr, but it also gets a couple bonuses to help it apply damage much better than a cnr, so I think it would get the same or better hits than a cnr. I'm not talking eft damage, I'm talking about real in game damage.
CNR vs Golem (both can fit 4 BCU's// without drones) Cruise missiles: 758 vs 650 (golem with slightly better damage application. More Rigors vs more and bonussed tp's and ship bonus) Torps: 1390 vs 1192 (golem with way better damage application due to no rigors. CNR with more range on Torps due to rigs)
Well, dmg application is better, don't know if they are even. May be possible, but you know, it's only a CNR worth half the money.
+ Marauders have a better active tank, but round about 30% less buffer compared to CNR.
Quote:Price. They're about the same. There is no reason a marauder should be getting less DPS as a whole. CNR is way cheaper then golem. Okey, inflated LP prices...
Quote:Sensor Strength/Scan Res. There is no damn reason this should be so gimped. The ONLY advantage a marauder would have over a faction battleship is the 3 free high slots. The argument is to keep marauders out of PvP. But what's the point? Even with the three spare highs, they are not going to be one stop killing machines. This may have made since when they were introduced, but it doesn't now. With faction ships becoming more and more common, this point is now moot and needs removed.
Yes, this is hilarious.
All in all, theres no reason to fly a marauder. It's not having a significant advantage (if any). Atleast, thats my opinion |

Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
25
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm not really seeing the appeal of a Marauder at all, I can do lvl 4's in a Drake, a Tengu, or any of the Racial T1 Battleships (all of which can be refit and repurposed to Pvp), never tried a lvl 5, since they aren't in high sec don't think I ever will, just not a place I want to take a mission fit ship. So with all the choices I already have, why would I want to spend all that time training and money on a Marauder, which is purposefully gimped for Pvp so it can never be as flexible and isn't really that much better if at all in Pve. |

m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
55
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Their purpose isn't to be flexible. They're made to be specialized PvE boats. You can't forget this.
Quote: it's only a CNR worth half the money.
+ Marauders have a better active tank, but round about 30% less buffer compared to CNR.
Forgot to mention that. But only the Navy Faction ships really are lower in cost. The pirate factions are along the same price tags as the marauders. But yeah, comparing the Navy Factions to them as well and they really start to look bad... And I forgot all about the marauders having less buffer than the Faction ships. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4751
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:This is mostly a sum of the the introduction of the Noctis, which has made salvaging "in mission" inefficient compared to reshipping for a Noctis Not really, no. The Noctis does not impact on what the Marauders let you do: loot and salvage a bit while you blow through (or even blitz) mission after mission in rapid succession.
The Noctis lets you mass-loot/salvage a lot of missions, which is is useful if you have a lot of them being created at once and if they are not being blitzed. If you're doing it on a single character, it's still of doubtful use to go back and salvage a mission in a Noctis unless you're doing the mission itself very slowly (as in: meh-fitted T1 BS or BC). If you're can dish them out faster than that, you'll still earn more money skipping the loot.
The Noctis works wonderfully as clean-up crew for 4-5 other ships blowing through missions, but that is something quite different than what you do with a Marauder. With them, you have one ship doing this mission, and collecting random debris at the same time, as a bonus, without skipping a beat in the actual gobble-one-mission-after-another process. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Just give marauders a 25% flat bonus to salvage chances to compete with the noctis, prob solved as far as PvE goes.
The idea of PvE vs PvP exclusivity is going the way of the dodo, what with buffs to faction ships, introduction of T3 and nature of Incursion/Sleeper AI, and the Marauder should follow suit as a ship capable in both PvP and PvE mode. |

Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 22:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
If you blitz 4 missions, bookmark the wrecks before leaving each mission and return and salvage all 4 it is super fast in the noctis compared to salvaging in the marauder "on the go" which is also extremely taxing and slows your mission blitzing.-á I also mentioned that introducing medium and large tractor beams with longer ranges and velocities designed to be fitted on battleship sized hulls. So we can drop the tractor beam bonus for something that's actually useful |

m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
55
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 23:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Forgot to mention this, but I just had a thread on this, too. About 2 or so weeks ago I think? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=47700&find=unread |

Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus
52
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 07:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
How about giving them a bonus to Large & Medium Turret Tracking Speed? This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
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