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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.05 03:41:00 -
[1]
Well, I am not happy with this. As already seen:
- A pilot jumps a few seconds ahead of you at a gate, and logs off. He auto warps away and vanishes from local.
- He logs in back, realizes danger. Logs off again.
Don't tell me I have to use a frigate to fight battleships, because then the people will pick up the fight.
Another "improvement" which made the situation even worse, now the pilots do not vanish after 90 seconds, they are just gone in seconds and do not even have to take care to do it by themself, a.k.a. warping to a safe spot. They have a safe spot everywhere. They are able to log on an alt, check the map and log on back when the system is clear.
Furthermore I do not understand while loging in to gank someone while using a bait is considered an exploit (which I support) and loging off to save his ship while being warpscrambled and webified and basicly losing a ship is not considered an exploit (which it should).
Please reconsider the changes you have done, IMHO the old system but with a longer timer to log on or log off would be better.
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Stories: #1
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Conrad
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Posted - 2004.03.05 06:15:00 -
[2]
what! this was supposed to be thourly tested! Hey, ther is no way to determine if a ctd or a disconnect was what caused the log off. If you ctd and your hip remains then what? If your comp disconnects on accident then what? If on purpose then what? There is no way to find out if it was done on purpose or it was a modem disconnect (whether on purpose or not).
Think about that before you attack the patch. They are not supposed to dissapear either, use your scanner and find the ship, then blow it up...simple.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.05 07:18:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
what! this was supposed to be thourly tested! Hey, ther is no way to determine if a ctd or a disconnect was what caused the log off. If you ctd and your hip remains then what? If your comp disconnects on accident then what? If on purpose then what? There is no way to find out if it was done on purpose or it was a modem disconnect (whether on purpose or not).
Think about that before you attack the patch. They are not supposed to dissapear either, use your scanner and find the ship, then blow it up...simple.
There is a way to determine that. At usual log off the client should send a signal to the server. But it doesn't really matter. CTD is bad hardware and/or software quality and it needs to be fixed regardless of faulty game mechanics.
Conrad, the ships do not stay in space after warping away. They vanish, they also vanish from the scanner. So your "simple" suggestion is impossible. Please check it out before posting, I did.
The new system brought with 1403 isn't fixing anyone of the exploits at all, it is even more exploitable, because "log-on-gank-groups" have some spare time while warping to the victims and "log-off-runners" don't have to do anything to get away as of now.
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Stories: #1
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Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.03.05 07:31:00 -
[4]
I heard there was talk about introducing a small delay between pilot logging off and ship warping away.
I think it should be at least 30 seconds, so people don't abuse this new feature and quick getaway tactic, before their enemy gets a chance to use scramblers
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Halo Jones
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Posted - 2004.03.05 07:58:00 -
[5]
The idea behind the idea was to protetc pilost who CTD or disconnect for network reasons I thik. If they introduce a delay, then this benefit will be negated. If a ship is warp scrambled it shouldn't be capable of the emergency warp, and nothing I have seen suggest that a ship can emergency warp when warp scrambled.
Oberon Incorporated. |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:48:00 -
[6]
Quote:
what! this was supposed to be thourly tested! Hey, ther is no way to determine if a ctd or a disconnect was what caused the log off. If you ctd and your hip remains then what? If your comp disconnects on accident then what? If on purpose then what? There is no way to find out if it was done on purpose or it was a modem disconnect (whether on purpose or not).
Yes there is. When you press the QUIT button, or the CLOSE button on the window mode the game can intercept and deal with those messages, and react to the fact the player is logging off.
Dropping the internet connection, ending the process, pulling cables out of a wall, are all ways to simulate a CTD as well.
In the first case, they have control and can issue commands stating they know its a player selecting to close the game and log off. In the second case, there really isn't that information as those situations are all perfectly good simulators for a abnormal terminationof the program of disconnection from the internet.
I STILL think the dev's should play DAoC and see how they deal with logging out. If you were forced to sit at a standstill for 20 seconds before the log out, or 60 seconds if you have recently been in combat, a lot of these means of avoiding someone would be substantially harder.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:54:00 -
[7]
just make the ship sit for 30 seconds after you log off. And make the logoff-warp jamable
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Konstas
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:00:00 -
[8]
Any change that lets someone escape death either to NPCs or other players by logging off is bad.
On the other hand, a corp mate of mine just lost his apoc to a CTD and NPC rats a few days before the patch...
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:09:00 -
[9]
huh?
So when you log now, your ship doesnt just sit there for a while then disapear?
What exactly hapens at log off/on
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.03.05 14:35:00 -
[10]
More ppl seem to log off when u engage than ever, lucky
they have died but the pod always dissapears/dont appear after the ship is destroyed.
w00t!
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.03.05 14:49:00 -
[11]
No Demitri, your ship automatically tries to warp to a random safe spot, but as someone pointed out this is pretty harsh if you are chasing someone and after/as they jump they disconnect/quit the game, etc.
It will fly you to a safe spot as soon as you are loaded, and whilst you can be warp scrambled, if you aren't caught in time, you have escaped it all.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.05 14:57:00 -
[12]
so when im logged, do hang around in the "safe spot", od do I go pop after 3 mins like before?
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.03.05 15:07:00 -
[13]
The New Log off warp away is "suppose" to bring you back to where u logged off BUT.... it doesnt.
Log off and ure safe.
w00t!
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KrapYl
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:04:00 -
[14]
when u log off, CTD or anyway leave the game... ur ship while instantly start an "emergency warp away"... this is just like u urself, had choosed to warp away... when the ship has warped away, it disappears... almost instantly according to Sally(i dont know personally, but i trust Sally's experience 99% here)..... UNLESS, ur docked at a station...
Now, i got a rather fast PC(p4, PC 4200 RAM, 533 FSB RAID0 etc.), with a rather fast connection (4000 packets a sec, 50ms from london)... sometimes when i enter the game, after this latest patch, i see that my ship started warping back to the spot from where i left the game... but i can actually cancel warp here... stop my ship, and stay in my little safespot 1M~KM. from everything... 
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:14:00 -
[15]
"- A pilot jumps a few seconds ahead of you at a gate, and logs off. He auto warps away and vanishes from local.
- He logs in back, realizes danger. Logs off again.
Don't tell me I have to use a frigate to fight battleships, because then the people will pick up the fight."
... It seems all you need is warp scrambler and fast lock?
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Purgatori
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:17:00 -
[16]
anather useless options that bothers everybody... i hope they will think again about this... but i know the chances are like 0.000..01% 
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:59:00 -
[17]
Quote:
"- A pilot jumps a few seconds ahead of you at a gate, and logs off. He auto warps away and vanishes from local.
- He logs in back, realizes danger. Logs off again.
Don't tell me I have to use a frigate to fight battleships, because then the people will pick up the fight."
... It seems all you need is warp scrambler and fast lock?
Sigh, and a MWD to get in range. In the quoted example you will not get the pilot anyway, where before the patch the pilot would have to do something in order to escape, e.g. taking time to make a bookmark or trying to run away more systems away.
And I need 3 modules to get someone now, where before the patch pure damage would have done the job sometimes.
Sorry, but the new patch made EVERYTHING regarding loging on and off worse. Read the devblog and the intention stated there and check the final outcome. FUBAR.
Forcing everyone to use MWD, sensor booster and warp jammer to get someone is just insane, I have seen people loging off who attacked me after getting owned or trapped. Now they will just log before I am in scramble range.
I have to waste 3 med slots now and the people running got a "auto-warp-away-to-safe-spot-feature" for free. Very balanced. Not exploitable. Well done.
Sorry for the rant, but implementing such a crap after dozens of heated discussions just continues to ruin my gaming experience.
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Stories: #1
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.03.05 17:30:00 -
[18]
The logging off is bugged been testing on TQ and u logg off and you do the "Emergency Warp" - Log on and was at the safe spot NOT where you logged off. Not once did i end up where i logged off.
w00t!
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J3tt
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Posted - 2004.03.05 17:45:00 -
[19]
sally just sucks
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Can your pod outrun a cruise missle? |
zincol
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Posted - 2004.03.05 18:07:00 -
[20]
Quote:
sally just sucks
Real good ;-)
w00t!
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El Paco
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Posted - 2004.03.05 18:24:00 -
[21]
Now this is how it is supposed to work if you log off your ship will emergency warp off and dissapear when you log back in it should warp back I have tried this and it works. Secondly if you have a target warp scrambled and he logs off his ship cant emergency warp and will therefor not dissapear at all it will stay there until blown up od not longer warpscrambled this we have tested and it works, but there is a bug that can occure when someone logs off and are warp scrambled he just dissapears this happened to us the other night. That needs to be fixed. |
Dukath
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Posted - 2004.03.05 18:28:00 -
[22]
before patch:
hostile instajumps and logs off during jump.
You as camper jump right before him or at the same time.
On the other side of the gate the other player is visible but is invulnerable for about 45 seconds. This leaves you 10 seconds to lock and kill him before he disappears.
Chances of killing the ship in those 15 seconds, minimal
after patch:
instajump and logs off during jump
you jump right before or after.
hostile ship still needs to align and accellerate to warp.
If you are lucky you end up close to him and can scrambme and kill.
If unlucky you'll end up on the other side of the gate
Chances of killing him, i'd say about 25-50% (if you are alone)
if you are with a few friends then it's prolly closer to 70 or 80% for non shuttles/frigates.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.03.05 18:56:00 -
[23]
Yep Jo, I think the point is more post-jump its actually quite easy to drop the game/connection delibertely.
The chaser still has to Jump into system, and then they have to start fresh locks/move to within range, and then hopefully get you before you warp out.
To be honest I still think most battleships would escape before the person jumping in has time to do both lock and get in range.
Yes a frigate will do this specific task well when jumped into a new system, but it does limit it to that. Even a cruiser would probably struggle badly to get in range and lock in time to be effective.
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kurg
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Posted - 2004.03.05 19:08:00 -
[24]
i have to agree the current gamemechanics makes fighting nearly impossible since theres no way to find people, or rather after using the scanner you figure out he or she is sitting 2au into space at a safespot smacktalking in local, and you have NO WAY!!! of getting to him/her
giving some sort of ability to warp to ppl once you have pinpointed them (for instance if you can get them on the directional scanner at 5 degreees you could warp to the ship after some 'extra slow warp alignment (since it has to calculate warpdistance or something) it will still tkae skill to pinpoint ppl.
Also logoff timeout, ought to be related to recent activity, so if you fired your guns or someone fired on you, the timeout time should be longer. Also if there is ppl in system with whom you have a bad standing the timeout should be longer too.
even the paranoid has real enemies...
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.03.05 19:35:00 -
[25]
So what? If you dont have them warp scrambled they can get anway even without logging. If you do have a warp scram, logging will not save them.
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kurg
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Posted - 2004.03.06 00:11:00 -
[26]
the fact that a corp or alliance can cover all gates and stations and still not have a chance of getting the hunted unless he /she decides to 'play' is stupid.
both carebears as well as pirates use this game mechanics, hell I think Id even use it myself if it came up, but that doesnt make it right.
being able to hunt ppl would also move the engagements away from only being gates and stations....
even the paranoid has real enemies...
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 02:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sally on 06/03/2004 02:22:51
Are you guys really playing the game?
What happened now: Followed a Dominix to a planet. Was 5 seconds late or something. Pilot logged off while flying to that planet. As I arrived at the planet I saw him warping away. Even with a sensor booster or two or three I wouldn't been able to lock him up to warp jam him. With the old system he would have been dead.
Great! Intending something and doing the opposite, I don't know how to call it.
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Stories: #1
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kurg
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Posted - 2004.03.06 02:23:00 -
[28]
again ... I agree with sally...
the fact that hunting/pirating ppl has been made nearly impossible (with the exception of massive gatecamp) is exactly what makes ppl like zombie abuse what is left.. I find their act despicable but I can understand their frustration..
even the paranoid has real enemies...
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.03.06 10:53:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ruffles on 06/03/2004 11:09:22
Yep, I do agree. Its a little annoying to have people you are chasing just log of as they jump, etc.
I still think once they log off they should sit in that spot for 20 seconds or something before it starts to warp them somewhere safe. It would at least discourage the logging off to escape a fight, because you are likely not to escape. I think people escaping a fight should come from their hard work to continually outrun an enemy, not from logging off.
Its such an easy getout to log-off in warp/post jump.
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kurg
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Posted - 2004.03.06 11:23:00 -
[30]
20 seconds is too little, with lag and all they are still gone..
you probably dont have time to lock them before they are gone..
the time should be related to the situation, something like I mentioned:
if in system with someone with bad standing towards you, the time should be perhaps +2 minutes
if you fired a gun at a pc within the last 5 minutes: +2 minutes
if a pc fired a gun at you within the last 5minutes: +2 minutes
yoou still have the chance of finding a station..
Also somesort of gamemechanics that alllows you to warp to ppl at safespots, it should not be point and click, but require you to pin them down on the scanner (5 deg) , and then you'd warp..
even the paranoid has real enemies...
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