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Siddy	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:34:00 - [31] Quote: Edited by: zincol on 05/03/2004 14:32:18 Quote: Hunt for them, don't just be sitting around gates waiting for them to come to you. Yes sadly it will most likely be miners you end up ganking in belts, but hunting is a little more active at least. Sorry to burst ure bubble but there really isnt many players in 0.4 systems and when they see u they can just fly to a gate,station or a safe point.....even faster by loggin off and lettin the auto thing fly u to a safe spot. Think this is so pilots can fly round AFK. w00t! yes .. i agree -------------------------------------------
Chai N'Dorr	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:35:00 - [32] This change makes no real difference to pirates... all the difference to the muggers with too much range on their hands Though it is a bad mistake of CCP to not inform the player base, was just about to get some free superconductors of a Caldari convoy. Good to know sentries have upped the stakes.
Tar om	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:37:00 - [33] Why is killing industrials with a battleship so much fun? -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tease	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:38:00 - [34] Quote: Why is killing industrials with a battleship so much fun? good question.. Probably as much "fun" as killing shuttles and n00b ships with a battleship. ----------------------------------------- [2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level? [2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you [2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:49:00 - [35] Quote: Quote: Why is killing industrials with a battleship so much fun? good question.. Probably as much "fun" as killing shuttles and n00b ships with a battleship. Who said anything about it being fun? I supposed there is the sadistic "You make me do this to actually earn some isk so squeal, little piggy!" factor. But whatever you think a pirate can make wasting hours trying to hunt down a mining group (who WILL escape is anyone is paying the slightest amount of attention), they can make a prolly good 10x-20x as much at a stargate. Do you think I stop off in roid belts when travelling between the labs and the factories with my Typhoon blueprint? Megacyte and Zydrine comes from something found in roid belts. It doesn't have to return to the roid belt before use. When I was trading (prior to the entry of the sentry guns to low sec space) I don't remember finding any supply or demand points in the middle of asteroid belt VII. Do I need to send you some isk so you can afford to buy a clue? Cause it sounds like you're prolly slaving away in a roid belt thinking there's actual isk there. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
KrapYl	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:50:00 - [36] Edited by: KrapYl on 05/03/2004 15:51:55 im a 100% empire AFK gridming little care****... even I dont like reading about sentry guns doing 100km+... and quite funnyi have to find this INFO on the player forum... posted by players... gah ? CCP going from gold to n00bz ?*
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:54:00 - [37] This is a bad thing. Perhaps they should scale the ranges? 1.0-0.6: 150km 0.5-0.3: 100km 0.2-0.1: 60km Reflect the fact that you put cheaper/older guns out in the less secure space. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:56:00 - [38] "So how does a pirate,Pirate now a days? not many miners in 0.4's and pirates got most kills from gates?!" Scorpion, 4x425, 6 tracking computers, 2 sensor boosters, 4 tech.2 damage mods, Iridium ammo. Optimal ~160 km, kills a battleship in ~2:30...
Tease	Posted - 2004.03.05 15:58:00 - [39] Quote: Do I need to send you some isk so you can afford to buy a clue? Cause it sounds like you're prolly slaving away in a roid belt thinking there's actual isk there. Sorry hun, but I have no problem making ISK and finding rare mods attacking other players at belts or killing wannabe gankers at mission/station spawn points.. I'm not sure why you're finding it so hard to believe that people can actually make money without resorting to ganking n00bs in empire space. Perhaps you need someone to show you how to play? I also don't understand why you feel the need to flame anyone who doesn't automatically agree with you and proclaim you to be the wise savior and spokesman for all PvPers that you seem to think you are. Have a cookie ----------------------------------------- [2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level? [2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you [2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way
Adenosine	Posted - 2004.03.05 16:10:00 - [40] This fix has been coming for awhile. To all the ones that gate camped and killed ships that had no possible chance of defense you have got what was coming. You have to had to known CCP was not going to allow you to keeping killing in this manner. Like many have stated, this just means you will have to go and do what real pirates do and that is hunt for your prey. Not sit at a gate 100km out and shoot ships that are flying by. They did this to keep the masses that play this game happy. Just because a few "pirates" where going to soon start costing them player base. They would not allow this you guys should have realized this. Like one stated, setup REAL blockades take out the guns, this would be a real pirate method. Now I am all for PvP and enjoy it myself, but this has not changed my mind about playing. And just keep in mind guys when you talk of all these "carebear miner" those are the ones that are paying the bills at CCP because theres are alot more miners the pirates. Now suck it up and get out there and do some real pirateing. No more of this gutless gate camping.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.05 16:15:00 - [41] Quote: Quote: Do I need to send you some isk so you can afford to buy a clue? Cause it sounds like you're prolly slaving away in a roid belt thinking there's actual isk there. Sorry hun, but I have no problem making ISK and finding rare mods attacking other players at belts or killing wannabe gankers at mission/station spawn points.. I'm not sure why you're finding it so hard to believe that people can actually make money without resorting to ganking n00bs in empire space. Perhaps you need someone to show you how to play? I also don't understand why you feel the need to flame anyone who doesn't automatically agree with you and proclaim you to be the wise savior and spokesman for all PvPers that you seem to think you are. Have a cookie Sorry, 'hun'. But I've prolly made more isk travelling between Point A and Point B with the right cargo in an hour than you make in a day. Unless you luck up and get a cargo expander. Hypothetical question: You spend 2 hours chasing down 10 players in roid belts and get 3-5 rare modules to sell. Gate camper spends 1 hour at a gate and gets 6-10 rare modules to sell. Does that make you smart or foolish? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Watson	Posted - 2004.03.05 16:24:00 - [42] lol... I think we have a certain group of pirates in Yulai to thank for this. Seriously... who didn't see this coming after that incident? They should have let people know, I'll agree with that. Once again, communication is poor. But, the rules changed... ok... it's CCP's game, they can do whatever they want. Learn and adapt. Somehow I get the feeling that gate-ganking isn't really how CCP wants pirating to occur. People can still gatecamp at gates in 0.0... but in empire space I think CCP wants people to actually go hunt for their victims rather tha wait for them to arrive on a silver platter.
Adenosine	Posted - 2004.03.05 16:29:00 - [43] Farewell spoken Watson
Adenosine	Posted - 2004.03.05 16:30:00 - [44] Farewell spoken Watson
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.03.05 16:35:00 - [45] I know you sympathize with pirates Jash, but no one said pirating was meant to be easy, especially in Empire space. 0.1-0.4 will have higher traffic than 0.0 because there are no alliances to close off space, there are stations, bunch of newbs, many unaware people, mid grade ore and npcs for the average player. Unlike in 0.0 where everyone and their mother has instajumps or safespots already made and is watching local like a hawk. Not to mention sentries benefit pirates as much as legit players in terms of protection.. All this does, is force small time rats to actually hunt for prey amongst the belts. I believe this just equalizes things for everyone, because lets face it, legit players don't camp outside sentry range, hoping to gank pirates that pass by. Maybe this will cut down on the number of newbs who went pirate because it was so easy to do this. Experienced pirates can just as easily tank out a scorp and have one or two friends helping with cap and shields and still hold up ships. If zombie could do it in 1.0 with concord shooting at the same time, smaller teams can do it with only the sentries. Maybe it will create some more permanent blockades that pirate-hunters could go and break up because right now if you try and break it up they just go to the next system and set up in 2 minutes _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
VinkNut	Posted - 2004.03.05 16:58:00 - [46] How the hell are you to chase down a pirate in a 0.4 system then? As soon as they have managed to warp once, they are home and free (or at least docked, or out of the system). The range on the sentry guns was absolutely FINE the way it was, neither too short to make it an easy kill, nor too long to mean that there's no chance of killing. Concord should be policing, SG's should be protecting assets - there is a distinction being drawn by CCP that no-one asked for, no-one was informed of, and no-one wants kept in the game (apart from people who really don't actually understand how the game works). Vinky/B
Teelmaster	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:00:00 - [47] All these pirates really need to stop *****ing. Ganking at gates was never intended in empire and frankly was just lame and too easy. That is why ccp change self-destruction rules (takes two minutes to self destruct) and the logging off rules (if you warp scramble them their ship won't dissapear). Go hunt for your prey, ransom their ship or blow it up for the modules. Use a team of cruisers/frigates to fast lock bs's in belts etc. Use some imagination and some tactics instead of sitting 60km and insta ganking. If you find a good target it can be VERY profitable, just ask tank ceo and watch his video.
VinkNut	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:03:00 - [48] The trouble is, that the new ranges prevent you from setting up a blockade to prevent a pirate from escaping a system - so they can basically come into a 0.4 system, attack and kill someone, then get away because you have no means of preventing them from leaving the system. The go into the neighbouring 0.5 system and start flicking "\/" signs at you, and you can't do anything about it. It works both ways.
Sally	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:05:00 - [49] Quote: Where is the piracy in indiscriminately ganking everything that appears at a gate? Where is the piracy in idiscriminately ganking everything that appears at a gate as done by Evolution trillion of times in trillions of different systems for ages. Sorry dude, get off the weed please. We don't need a reason as you don't need one as well for blowing people up. Or wait, Evolution always makes up a story on the board before shooting the **** out of the people, so it is legit. And don't ask me to provide concrete examples of Evolution camping gates in 0.4-0.1 systems, been there, seen that. Sigh. -- Stories: #1 --
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:11:00 - [50] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Phantom II on 05/03/2004 14:16:32 ffs put this kind of stuff in patch notes!!! Whats wrong with you guys? We are paying for this game. SIGH True. So how does a pirate,Pirate now a days? not many miners in 0.4's and pirates got most kills from gates?! w00t! well here is a clue, lets see belts dont have any sentry guns last time i checked, and 0.0 sec there are no major issues there, and corp wars too. but really i wish that such changes came after that hole war/alliance system got in... these changes were not needed or at least should have been moved out a bit more and not so extrem... maybe 100km or so would have been ok but 150km? support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:22:00 - [51] i also think these changes are due to the modile scrablers etc... though we havent seen the bigger ones yet... and the small ones are useless but with those set up right im sure you could take out players out of warp and they will most likely die, so it would take a lot of time and money as well as effort to do this but it would work. anyway i think in general they did over kill on this range. ccp doesnt go for middle ground ever, so it seems and it does suck for all players but mostly pirates. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Antdung	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:27:00 - [52] I think people should stop complaining about being ganked at gates, it is another career for players the same as mining or agent missions, don;t tell people who are paying good money like yourselves how to play the game, you're not paying for them. I don;t go around telling miners how to mine.. if you can't handle the heat, don't enter lower then 0.5, unsecure space is meant to be dangerous, they may as well have changed all space to 1.0., i believe the answer to this problem is already in this forum,, the less secure the system, the shorter the gun range to represent lack of security funds.
J3tt	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:36:00 - [53] remove gun increased rng....or drastic measures may be taken by SPVD corp ----------------------------------------- Can your pod outrun a cruise missle?
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:42:00 - [54] Quote: I know you sympathize with pirates Jash, but no one said pirating was meant to be easy, especially in Empire space. 0.1-0.4 will have higher traffic than 0.0 because there are no alliances to close off space, there are stations, bunch of newbs, many unaware people, mid grade ore and npcs for the average player. Unlike in 0.0 where everyone and their mother has instajumps or safespots already made and is watching local like a hawk. Not to mention sentries benefit pirates as much as legit players in terms of protection.. All this does, is force small time rats to actually hunt for prey amongst the belts. I believe this just equalizes things for everyone, because lets face it, legit players don't camp outside sentry range, hoping to gank pirates that pass by. Maybe this will cut down on the number of newbs who went pirate because it was so easy to do this. Experienced pirates can just as easily tank out a scorp and have one or two friends helping with cap and shields and still hold up ships. If zombie could do it in 1.0 with concord shooting at the same time, smaller teams can do it with only the sentries. Maybe it will create some more permanent blockades that pirate-hunters could go and break up because right now if you try and break it up they just go to the next system and set up in 2 minutes It's not sympathy. It's simple numbers. 2 ships, 3 if the stars align correctly and give the perfect situation, are my limits. Beyond that, it's a waste to attempt to fight. My numbers are notably higher than most people's. Most people won't face a single person fighting unless they have 1-2 other people helping them. So you make the only means to pirate require more force than people are able to summon. 3 pirates at a gate and most people won't move until they outnumber the pirates 2 to 1. And the pirates are already there and operating. Most people can't summon those 5 other pilots to face them before the pirates leave. The game forces stupid risks for no reward. There is no reward in beating a pirate except satisfaction. To get that satisfaction you have to go through holy hell. Solutions like upping the range on the sentry guns work opposite of what needs to be done: Force the pirates to work in smaller groups that the individual or small corp is likely to be able to handle. Most people are intimidated strictly by the mere presence of a pirate. Multiple pirates just makes them certain in their upcoming doom. That is the majority of the players. The majority is not made up of people like me who will take 2 to 1 odds. The majority is not made up of people like the Blade Runners, a corp that tries to actively hunt pirates. The majority is not made up of corporations like Everlasting Vendetta or Xanadu, likely to have a few pilots nearby equipped well enough to make facing a blockade feasible. The majority of the people playing the game have the odds stacked against them from the beginning by mechanics that force the people that already intimidate them alone to work in well armed, high powered groups. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Antdung	Posted - 2004.03.05 17:46:00 - [55] I think people should stop complaining about being ganked at gates, it is another career for players the same as mining or agent missions, don;t tell people who are paying good money like yourselves how to play the game, you're not paying for them. I don;t go around telling miners how to mine.. if you can't handle the heat, don't enter lower then 0.5, unsecure space is meant to be dangerous, they may as well have changed all space to 1.0., i believe the answer to this problem is already in this forum,, the less secure the system, the shorter the gun range to represent lack of security funds.
Viqer Fell	Posted - 2004.03.05 18:21:00 - [56] Edited by: Viqer Fell on 05/03/2004 18:42:07 Sentry Guns have had their ranges at stations and Gates increased to 150kms. I must say that my considered opinion of this change is that it is an extraordinarily awful move. As one of the more prominent role playing corps in the Minmatar / Amarr struggle one of the primary aspects of our role playing was hunting down and killing Amarrians. With this change as I understand it we are now restricted to the following: 1) Corp wars. No problem here we have been at war with Pie Inc etc. for some time 2) Asteroid Belts : Again no problem here, thats where we find some of our prey anyways. 3) 0.0. Well if we wanted to role play Defenders of O-MFG or some daft named system miles from nowhere then this would be fine. But we don't. If the ranges being bandied about above are true then we are no longer allowed to chase those miners out of the belt to either the Stations nor the Gates and believe me the first thing they usually do is run for the hills. Now being honest (and I know cause I've been doing this for 8 months) it's bloody hard to find a specific race of character mining or hunting in the belts without many hours or some very good luck in 0.1-0.4 where you can rp a fight. With this change CCP have now dramatically reduced our chances of being able to engage pilots in 0.1 - 0.4 systems. I cannot stress how dismayed I am by this change. I feel that every patch that comes along is designed to ruin any chance of role play unless you wanna role play a miner or a trader. Dare to want to kill anything other than NPC's and out comes the nerf bat 1 month later. CCP wants player created events and storylines. Well the PFM has tried to do that for them. We have been in the front page news numerous times for role play reasons. Very shortly CCP we will no longer be able to play the role of minmatar patriots in the inimicable way we have and still do. And for this matter I have a real issue with being forced into 0.0 as half of the respondees seem to suggest is where PK'ers should be. All 0.0 space is claimed by one alliance or another. To live in 0.0 means I must join an alliance and hence join the wars they bring along and fight alongside the players in that alliance. We have just left CA because we didnt want to compromise any longer on our ideals and fly alongside Amarr pilots without being able to shoot em. I apologise for the length but this news has seriously upset me and tbh depressed me. I feel that I am trying to help CCP make a fantastic game whislt theyre trying their damndest to stop me doing what theyre begging everyone to do i.e. create player news in a positive manner, keeping things clean and interacting in the storyline. Way to ruin my day CCP! http://www.aoyd25.dsl.pipex.com/glowing%20copy.gif Podding the Amarr Empire one pod at a time http://www.aoyd25.dsl.pipex.com/glowing%20copy.gif Podding the Amarr Empire one pod at a time. Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio?
C4w3	Posted - 2004.03.05 18:27:00 - [57] I have one idea..... Let¦s build a big electrical fence around 0.0 space were all carebears need to sign a contract where they agree to a none wining. and let concord fly around in the sim like world of super miners in S.k Battle ships. and kill all pirates. when that is done.... all can hugh and go on with their buisness. 0.0 space will only contain NPC.... and a couple frigs running btw all regions. when that is also done.. let¦s extirminate NPC fractions.. so 0,0 space becomes a good place and build pink little telletubbies hometowns. 150k Sents ROFL--> why not movable sents that follows sk pirates around space. Take this as IRONI... but in some sence THE TRUTH. "If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional one.
Quinn Manaan	Posted - 2004.03.05 18:27:00 - [58] What the bloody hell, J3tt? 'Or SPVD will take drastic measures'? Are you trying to threaten CCP with ganking/pirating? That is -not- how the game-design process is supposed to function. All the gate-campers have said, classically, that the gate-gun range -proved- that gate-camping was a legitimate tactic; else why didn't CCP make the gate-gun range ludicrous? Well, CCP has basically stated that gate-camping -isn't- a legitimate tactic by this act -- at least not in the present form. So -- you pirate folks either ought to adapt. Surely there are some -other- ways to pirate? Some other places, some other methods?
Demiurge Ialdaboth	Posted - 2004.03.05 18:34:00 - [59] Edited by: Demiurge Ialdaboth on 05/03/2004 18:36:14 This is a change for the better. I didn't expect I would be venturing into low security space because I kept hearing about "gate campers". Now however I can (somewhat) safely traverse into these regions without fear of being destroyed the minute I exit the gate. I can proudly say I havent died yet in this game so playing it safe pays off Edit: Minor grammar errors.
Viqer Fell	Posted - 2004.03.05 18:44:00 - [60] This isn't just about gate camping people. This is about warping in on a mining op. shooting. then not being able to chase your prey if they manage to get out of the belt cause the guns at the gate or the station will not care that you were role playing. Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio?

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