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LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.24 16:15:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
40b in 2 months is not so impressive, I made more and that counts two investments turning into scams. I don't understand why anyone scams for such tiny amounts of money when they could do so much better.
40bill is still a considerable amount.
Eh... not so much these days. If he had run this 3 more months he coulda gotten up to 80-100 bil.
For any mortal person, 40bill is alot. I know i wouldnt mind 40bill. And it would take me at least 20 months to make that kind of isk with CAP4U. Leave alone if i only had 1bill isk as a starting ground.
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FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.24 17:37:00 -
[32]
Amusing really.
Even after I pointed out the maths of how his numbers of shares sold didn't add up (which he never replied to) people kept sending him more ISK. I never called it as a scam - as I wasn't sure that it was one. His change in comments about the 7k unreleased shares (they went from "will be released very slowly" to "they probably won't be released till after next dividend") suggested that maybe he was just selling the lot now - which, while unethical, wouldn't be a scam.
People just saw the 15% per month and lost all their common-sense. Noone cared that there were no accounts for the single dividend paid, no real business plan and no proper definition of how surplus profits over 15% were divided.
Hopefully some useful lessons will be drawn from this - but I somehow doubt it.
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LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.24 17:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: FastLearner
Amusing really.
Even after I pointed out the maths of how his numbers of shares sold didn't add up (which he never replied to) people kept sending him more ISK. I never called it as a scam - as I wasn't sure that it was one. His change in comments about the 7k unreleased shares (they went from "will be released very slowly" to "they probably won't be released till after next dividend") suggested that maybe he was just selling the lot now - which, while unethical, wouldn't be a scam.
People just saw the 15% per month and lost all their common-sense. Noone cared that there were no accounts for the single dividend paid, no real business plan and no proper definition of how surplus profits over 15% were divided.
Hopefully some useful lessons will be drawn from this - but I somehow doubt it.
How ironic. Isnt this kinda the same effect with Wylker? He promised 15%+ didivdends. And everybody went nuts.
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FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.24 17:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
40b in 2 months is not so impressive, I made more and that counts two investments turning into scams. I don't understand why anyone scams for such tiny amounts of money when they could do so much better.
40bill is still a considerable amount.
Eh... not so much these days. If he had run this 3 more months he coulda gotten up to 80-100 bil.
Yeah - he definitely pulled the plug earlier than he needed to. A few months paying 15-20% and he could have scooped another 50 bill easy.
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FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.24 17:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: FastLearner
Amusing really.
Even after I pointed out the maths of how his numbers of shares sold didn't add up (which he never replied to) people kept sending him more ISK. I never called it as a scam - as I wasn't sure that it was one. His change in comments about the 7k unreleased shares (they went from "will be released very slowly" to "they probably won't be released till after next dividend") suggested that maybe he was just selling the lot now - which, while unethical, wouldn't be a scam.
People just saw the 15% per month and lost all their common-sense. Noone cared that there were no accounts for the single dividend paid, no real business plan and no proper definition of how surplus profits over 15% were divided.
Hopefully some useful lessons will be drawn from this - but I somehow doubt it.
How ironic. Isnt this kinda the same effect with Wylker? He promised 15%+ didivdends. And everybody went nuts.
Yep.
We had a chat about Riethe's IPO in RESX channel last week. I said, amongst other things, that I'd have been far more tempted to invest had be been offering 10% than 15%. There was no reason for a GENUINE IPO to offer 15% - it could get it's funds at 10%. Offering 15% showed a degree of desperation to get ISK which concerned me. Add to that the obviously flaky maths on number of shares sold and no way I was touching it without some very clear answers.
Riethe's IPO also broke another rule I have about investments - I won't generally touch a decent sized IPO unless whoever's running it has already acquired substantial, solid, assets of their own.
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Fader Bane
Black Knight Buccaneers
Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.24 17:48:00 -
[36]
ah well.
________________________________________
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Kitex
Blacktag Test Labs
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Posted - 2007.11.24 20:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How ironic. Isnt this kinda the same effect with Wylker? He promised 15%+ didivdends. And everybody went nuts.
Guilty. But I actually credit Wylker, in part, with making me a more careful investor. Lessons learned from PSI, among other warning signs, helped steer me away from this one.
Originally by: FastLearner
Even after I pointed out the maths of how his numbers of shares sold didn't add up (which he never replied to) people kept sending him more ISK.
I saw that post, and did the math myself to confirm it. I wasn't really an interested investor anyway, but that set off the alarm bells for me. It is a shame this actually did turn scam, and I sympathize with any investors. But it was avoidable by maintaining a reasonable minimum standard of investment. This didn't meet mine, but neither did PSI, which is why I can't cry too loudly if that doesn't turn out well.
Gone are the days I'll consider investing in someone I haven't previously heard of.
As for the scam announcement, and the scale of the scam itself: lackluster, and very forgettable. Reithe who?
Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery! |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.24 21:29:00 -
[38]
There is alot of value here; we have a very good case study here for what a scam may look like in the future. Although the value scammed is relatively small (historically speaking and compared against the market as a whole) the value coming out of this are the lessons learned. EBANK will likely internally document this quite a bit.
As others have said, while this is noteworthy...it is not significant in the context of the market historically. It's only significance is that it was well put together.
In terms of my own culpability....I took a hard line with Riethe and tried to force his hand into public disclosure when he expanded his bonds. I ended up talking to him personally and thought I might have judged him well (from conversation, i still didn't like his "plan"), I passed this advice along to Ricdic from there.
Honestly, the entire experience has left me more determined to drive a centralized regulatory entity into the mainstream. Self-regulation is alright...but my opinion has always been towards central regulation. Hopefully this will serve to advance my agenda if nothing else.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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rtbzneeezz
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Posted - 2007.11.24 21:36:00 -
[39]
The most scammed was from people that obviously were new or didn't even read the forums.
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JadeMako
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:26:00 -
[40]
Well I'm putting my hand up as someone new, and with our perfect 20/20 hindsight I too agree that the signs were there. I wonder how long it will be before another similar scam can be perpetrated (sp?). Not sure why but I let him talk me into upping my original (max commitment!) by 50%, but its not the end of the world either and it IS a good lesson, to me at least.
As Riethe knows I'm off to see my sister far away for a long while, the isk he stole was destined for her, to help baby orphans after her wedding or some such thing I believe. TBQH I don't fault him at all for what he did, ultimately it was my decision to invest and as said, the signs were there but with the promise of high returns I fell for them.
With his 'personal desire' to communicate with each shareholder I even felt somewhat placated when any fears arose, so it was quite well done but I feel he was having personal problems in keeping it going - would you care to confirm this Reithe? You could have walked away with more.
I tracked him originally and he was in 0.0 so I thought he had contacts in an alliance and supplying the war was funding his profits. My original plan was to watch him and get in on the trading he claimed he was doing. Should have stuck to the original plan :) In Eve reputation is everything but alts make this a joke.
Anyway Reithe, my business plan is so good I need not be around for it to show high returns (28.8%). You ought to get in on it. Call NOW!!
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Eraggan Sadarr
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:29:00 -
[41]
Well, I feel quite stupid 
But i guess there were lot of warnings from other players.
Tough lesson learned.
Mostly because i don't have that much time to play, and it simply took me months to gather the 500 mill isk I lost. Which in turn was why i jumped in with both legs.
The worst was actually that i convinced a friend to invest... sorry
Eve Market Scanner
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: FastLearner
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
40b in 2 months is not so impressive, I made more and that counts two investments turning into scams. I don't understand why anyone scams for such tiny amounts of money when they could do so much better.
40bill is still a considerable amount.
Eh... not so much these days. If he had run this 3 more months he coulda gotten up to 80-100 bil.
Yeah - he definitely pulled the plug earlier than he needed to. A few months paying 15-20% and he could have scooped another 50 bill easy.
Exactly.
He obviously didn't want to put forth the effort to really pull off a big scam. If he had started posting regularly and been paying out over his 15% min each month he'd have gotten a lot more people roped in.
Now though I think we will all be suspicious of anyone paying out very high amounts and wanting to expand before they've even payed out a tiny fraction of their total. But I have a feeling people will still jump in on any good investments that pop-up and 90% will work out fine, some will turn out to be scams.
All this will do is make it harder for unknown people to get money.. and concentrate the money in the hands of the rich, powerful, well known players even more.
Tanking Setups Compared
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LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: FastLearner
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
40b in 2 months is not so impressive, I made more and that counts two investments turning into scams. I don't understand why anyone scams for such tiny amounts of money when they could do so much better.
40bill is still a considerable amount.
Eh... not so much these days. If he had run this 3 more months he coulda gotten up to 80-100 bil.
Yeah - he definitely pulled the plug earlier than he needed to. A few months paying 15-20% and he could have scooped another 50 bill easy.
Exactly.
He obviously didn't want to put forth the effort to really pull off a big scam. If he had started posting regularly and been paying out over his 15% min each month he'd have gotten a lot more people roped in.
Now though I think we will all be suspicious of anyone paying out very high amounts and wanting to expand before they've even payed out a tiny fraction of their total. But I have a feeling people will still jump in on any good investments that pop-up and 90% will work out fine, some will turn out to be scams.
All this will do is make it harder for unknown people to get money.. and concentrate the money in the hands of the rich, powerful, well known players even more.
I agree, he could have got more isk out of people. But still.. 40bill is ALOT of money for most people. Its about 1333 hours worth of 0.0 ratting.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
I agree, he could have got more isk out of people. But still.. 40bill is ALOT of money for most people. Its about 1333 hours worth of 0.0 ratting.
A very good reason not to waste time ratting, not nearly profitable enough.
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Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
JadeMako
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:13:00 -
[45]
Edited by: JadeMako on 24/11/2007 23:15:47
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: FastLearner
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
All this will do is make it harder for unknown people to get money.. and concentrate the money in the hands of the rich, powerful, well known players even more.
Thats the real shame. Reithe had a go at Ricdic on the first page but he has just made it easier for Ricdic to get financing and harder for everyone else. And people like yourself, Ricdic and the 10 or so other players on this forum who can quite easily lose multiple billions without needing a good lie down... well you won't even break a sweat from this scam.
Smaller investors will now forever stay away from a side of Eve that needs some more participation and development, and a side that could reap future scammers a great wealth 
[EDIT]
1: I realised that makes it sound like i might scam at some stage - this is my only character, I won't.
2: I don't why why my writing is small
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:32:00 -
[46]
Originally by: JadeMako
2: I don't why why my writing is small
Not enough end quote's.
Taikun's Lost Bet |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:34:00 -
[47]
Originally by: JadeMako
With his 'personal desire' to communicate with each shareholder I even felt somewhat placated when any fears arose
For myself, anytime this need of an CEO of an IPO wants to communicate in private, always sets off my alarm bells.
What is it they want to say to me that cant be said to all the others who have similar fears? To me wishing to keep all communications out of the public spotlight is such huge indicator that something needs to be hidden. It also leads me to believe that what will be said to me in private, will not be consistant with what is said to others in private.
I'm not faulting you JadeMako, it is easy to be lulled into a false sense of security by a smooth tounged devil that tell you what you want to hear.
--
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Riethe
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:35:00 -
[48]
Long day for me guys, catching up with everything right now.
For everyone who thinks somehow telling me how much 43 billion ISK is not worth, what exactly are you attempting to achieve? Am I some how going to realize that all this money is suddenly worth nothing because my scam was not the same size as the big bank scam?
And be honest with yourselves here, if this collective 43 billion from this run is so lacking in value, why are you making note of it here? Why post if it's -so- worthless to you. How's your wallet looking? Why do you even CARE for your investment? Clearly everyone on this board has multiple hundreds of billions just sitting around.
For the people that are claiming this haul wasn't "a lot," tell me what scale we use to determine this, and let me know how your personal wallet is doing.
Once again, I can run an endless amount of scams by keeping a cycle of rather interesting characters building, and introduce them to you when I feel the time is right.
This doesn't just stop here.
For those wondering why I didn't try to push this one out a bit further:
I think we're at a point right now, based on recent discussions, that a lot of the big names can really sway public opinion, even accidentally.
And considering some of the big wigs right now have this whole thing going on about how much ISK you can really trust with one person, I didn't want to push my limits, issue out more dividends, and risk dropping lower than I had reached by overselling.
And finally: The very first time I offered my expansion, hexxx contacted me with a very confrontational email, and made reference to my scam being a ponzi scheme. Ricdic did the same, just moments later. They claimed that "lots of people" or a bunch of people, had contacted them, being concerned about the bond.
Now, I have my reservations about how many people that really was (I'm thinking in a range of 0-1, but it makes no difference) but it did draw their attention. And Because of the way this has been laid out from the beginning, I wasn't really sure what direction I could push to ask for even more ISK, a third time, without waiting 3-4 months, and taking a big risk.
Hasn't been proof-read, hope that's okay with everyone.
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FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:39:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: FastLearner
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
40b in 2 months is not so impressive, I made more and that counts two investments turning into scams. I don't understand why anyone scams for such tiny amounts of money when they could do so much better.
40bill is still a considerable amount.
Eh... not so much these days. If he had run this 3 more months he coulda gotten up to 80-100 bil.
Yeah - he definitely pulled the plug earlier than he needed to. A few months paying 15-20% and he could have scooped another 50 bill easy.
Exactly.
He obviously didn't want to put forth the effort to really pull off a big scam. If he had started posting regularly and been paying out over his 15% min each month he'd have gotten a lot more people roped in.
Now though I think we will all be suspicious of anyone paying out very high amounts and wanting to expand before they've even payed out a tiny fraction of their total. But I have a feeling people will still jump in on any good investments that pop-up and 90% will work out fine, some will turn out to be scams.
All this will do is make it harder for unknown people to get money.. and concentrate the money in the hands of the rich, powerful, well known players even more.
What amazes me is that, once he saw it was easy to scam, he didn't take more. let's face it, his conversation with Ricdics, cut short was:
Ricdics: How are you making 22%?
Riethe: ((doesn't answer))
Ricdics: Are you scamming?
Riethe: No
Ricdics: OK, you're sound - here's 2.5 billion.
Only surprising thing is that noone else has bothered doing it.
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Riethe
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:58:00 -
[50]
One more thing here real fast:
Some of you guys are having a lot of trouble figuring all this stuff out, and that's okay, because I'm confused by some of the stuff you've said as well.
In case there is any confusion about this fact: RHCRP was planned a scam from the beginning. It was not on a whim.
Oh, and the whole share availability (when I posted it) was genuine. It turned out that a few of the starting investors bailed on a huge reservation and it caused those numbers to change a lot. If you think your quick addition of a few forum posts solved the mystery, you might want to really try to get some perspective on that.
Everyone is all up in here talking about how they knew something was going down but the thing is, a lot of you guys are missing really hard on some of this. And if it was so painfully obvious, it should have been your duty as "moral" citizens of our internet space ship game to remind everyone else that some people think outside of the box so watch out he's going to steal your ISK.
But we shun that around here because it's the same thing as stealing someone's purse in real life. Someone open up the EULA and find the part where it says I can't do this.
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Riethe
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:07:00 -
[51]
Dear Shadarle,
I think you're just an absolute foul soul on these forums and you treat everyone in such a condescending, unfriendly manner.
Nothing brings me more pleasure than being able to steal your personal ISK.
You claim that you were able to place this investment because you didn't mind losing 1 billion ISK.
As true as that may be, what you did lose, however, was the part of you that finally chose to commit to this investment. And I think considering your post history and your general behavioral patterns, this actually makes this loss a lot greater than you might be willing to admit to.
You're so opinionated about how to do every flipping thing regarding the markets, yet you refuse to do anything yourself and actually prove to anyone you are capable of these things.
You're such a fake individual with so many security issues that you mask it through your rough attitude on these forums and probably in game as well.
I hope that suits you.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:25:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Riethe
Dear Shadarle,
I think you're just an absolute foul soul on these forums and you treat everyone in such a condescending, unfriendly manner.
Nothing brings me more pleasure than being able to steal your personal ISK.
You claim that you were able to place this investment because you didn't mind losing 1 billion ISK.
As true as that may be, what you did lose, however, was the part of you that finally chose to commit to this investment. And I think considering your post history and your general behavioral patterns, this actually makes this loss a lot greater than you might be willing to admit to.
You're so opinionated about how to do every flipping thing regarding the markets, yet you refuse to do anything yourself and actually prove to anyone you are capable of these things.
You're such a fake individual with so many security issues that you mask it through your rough attitude on these forums and probably in game as well.
I hope that suits you.
Couldn't have written a better self-portrait of myself if I tried!
As to how my wallet is doing, your scam wasn't my biggest loss for the day. Having said that, it is still up over yesterday. I had a very good day 
I wrote off your scam and blue dice today for 1.6 billion isk. I lost another 2 billion on something else. I am up 1.3 billion after taking those losses into account. So overall I'm quite pleased that suffering the losses I did that I won't even notice it by looking at my daily profit spreadsheet.
Starting an IPO myself right now would be a dis-service to any investors. I wouldn't be able to devote more than a few minutes per day to it. I am lucky to devote even 30 minutes to my own orders currently and can't currently use up all of my own isk. So there is absolutely no reason I should issue an IPO.
I am quite glad you dedicated an entire post to me though. Shows that you have been greatly impacted by my posts. I am sorry that I could not show more annoyance or regret at your scam or the loss of my money. Perhaps next time you'll be smarter and pull off a truly impressive scam.
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Riethe
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:30:00 -
[53]
You and I share something in common. We lie a lot to random people.
In your case, it makes you feel better about some lack of security somewhere up in that noggin of yours.
In my case, It's my way of putting in that "30" minutes a day to earn more profits than you will ever see.
And, I thought of all people, you deserved a special note, since I've never really been very fond of you through my reading on the forums. (long time lurker, you see.)
I guess I was just hoping somehow you'd become a nice guy after I said that to you. But that's kind of like someone telling me what I just did is the same as stealing from orphans. Doesn't really affect me a whole lot.
Fair enough Shadarle, carry on my sociopathic friend.
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Meleil
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:30:00 -
[54]
You have to admit. Even with all your reservations and worries Riethe still got you guys good. Lets just not have a same repeat shall we?
~Mel
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Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: FastLearner
What amazes me is that, once he saw it was easy to scam, he didn't take more. let's face it, his conversation with Ricdics, cut short was:
Ricdics: How are you making 22%?
Riethe: ((doesn't answer))
Ricdics: Are you scamming?
Riethe: No
Ricdics: OK, you're sound - here's 2.5 billion.
I don't want to get involved in this conversation but I will clear this up.
I had about 4-5 preceeding conversations with Reithe over the days leading up to that day. I have provided those chat logs to the Board of Directors to show it wasn't just a 10 minute decision. Those logs show Reithe and I having a good chat, mulling over some ideas, ways to implement those, and just chatting in general. There are probably around 2-3 hours worth of chatting we racked up over that week.
So he pulled scam. I can live with that. What irks me is how he really did seem like a mate in-game, not trying to push for money just chatting like I would to someone. But the whole turnaround with suddenly calling me a tool and his tone laced with such hate makes me feel sick to the stomach. Was I talking to him in game with the whole time him wishing this [insert expletitve] would just leave him alone? He makes his scams personal is the first hard part. The second is showing that those hours of talking and joking around were one sided.
That's my problem. He took it to a whole new personal level. Unfortunately, that also probably would be the best way one could scam in this game. But it makes me question the other people around me wondering who I can trust compared to those I thought I could trust yesterday.
So Riethe please leave the insults out and if you are going to post defamatory materials about me don't forget to mention the 5 other conversations we had.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Riethe
You and I share something in common. We lie a lot to random people.
In your case, it makes you feel better about some lack of security somewhere up in that noggin of yours.
In my case, It's my way of putting in that "30" minutes a day to earn more profits than you will ever see.
And, I thought of all people, you deserved a special note, since I've never really been very fond of you through my reading on the forums. (long time lurker, you see.)
I guess I was just hoping somehow you'd become a nice guy after I said that to you. But that's kind of like someone telling me what I just did is the same as stealing from orphans. Doesn't really affect me a whole lot.
Fair enough Shadarle, carry on my sociopathic friend.
I love mental masterbation like this, its good to see someone stroke their own ego.
p.s. a word was misspelled on purpose
--
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:45:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Riethe
In my case, It's my way of putting in that "30" minutes a day to earn more profits than you will ever see.
More profits than I will ever see? I think we both know that is a silly statement. I made more profits than you scammed in the time it took you to run this scam. And from Ricdic's last post it sure seems like you put a lot of effort into this as well.
It would be rather pointless for me to lie about my profits. Though it is a bit amusing that we both take advantage of the stupidity of others, you through scamming and I through trading. You did a decent enough job with the scam, but you showed a severe lack of guts in cashing out so quickly instead of really going for broke. Perhaps if you had held out a bit longer you would have been able to out-do me. Better luck on your next try.
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Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:49:00 -
[58]
Understood. Well I will leave now and let you get back to stroking your ego.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: FastLearner
You did a decent job anyway - I just find it somewhat disappointing that you didn't get more: having made the decision to scam it's a pity you didn't really go for it and take a huge sum of ISK. I just hope if I ever scam I do a proper job of it: I've raised 100 billion running a legit business, so I'd hope that ruinning a scam (where I can promise whatever I want - never having to deliver on it) I could clean up at least 2-3 times that.
I'll give you a B+ for planning, an A- for execution and a D for ambition.
Exactly my thoughts on all this. I am actually disappointed in this scam, not because it happened, but because it lacked so much ambition or guts.
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Riethe
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:04:00 -
[60]
If you put the letters together that fastlearner used to grade my scam, it spells "BAD"
Coincidence? I think not.
It's really difficult to get this through to you fastlearner, because despite your name, you're not all that fast.
I'll try my best here:
first:
Originally by: fastlearner
What amazes me is that, once he saw it was easy to scam, he didn't take more. let's face it, his conversation with Ricdics, cut short was:
Do you really think this is the key factor that made it obvious to me that it is easy to take advantage of people? I mean, come on.
FastLearner, I've been around a lot longer than you realize. Although I don't know if it was you or someone else that said I'm clearly a proven liar, so everything I say is the opposite of the truth.
In any case, if that is you, I don't suppose it makes sense for you to post here if I'm not "allowed" to respond because you can just nullify everything I say by calling me a liar.
If that wasn't you, my mistake, I really just don't have the energy to go back and check.
It's really difficult to push the boundaries beyond this. You have to really get yourself established for people to start trusting larger funds than this. Also, how convincing could I possibly be in saying I'm putting 60 billion ISK on the trading market for general goods? That would be a lot of work for one man to do, I personally find that to be a rather crazy claim for any individual to even attempt to make.
The risk involved in pushing a 20% return on 15 billion ISK and hoping for more potential returns is far too high for my curiosity. These things compound themselves. I would very much like to see another 100+ billion ISK scam, done in one haul.
The person most likely for achieving this is Ricdic.
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