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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:11:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 25/11/2007 01:02:53 Lol Setana, i have been playing since Wednesday and now it is Sunday-that is 5 days. I do not have to have played a long time to see something that seems unfair. Some of the arguments that people have made from experience make sense to me and I am thinking about them-such as the real impact of ISK buying etc and how it's impact is less than i supposed. However trust me I am noob and not flaming-that's y i got annoyed by the mindless insults of kenneth and tortun who at 1st decided to make no intelligent argument and just abuse me-they have started to try to justify more now which is great most ppl who have posted r against it but have resigned themselves to it happening and believe that CCP won't stop so they have had to rationalise it. But I have listened to the many thoughtful rationalisations and i am sure that i will do the same thing as i become more experienced :P
and y would i not flame-think of it this way Being famous on the forums is like being famous in xxx movies-you may be famous but you're still in xxx movies!
Actually, I have some good news for you. There's an alliance which is specifically for people who don't like ISK-farmers and macroers. Since you're against GTC sales, I assume that you find RMT ISK buying even more abhorrent, since it has none of the mitigating factors of GTC selling.
Search out the United Corporations Against Macros alliance. They'll train new characters such as yourself to hunt out farmers and macroers (no doubt some of whom are used to fund GTC purchases, if that's important to you).
I've sent a few donations and a little Intel their way on occasion, and they seem like a cool bunch. You could do worse than start your eve career with them.
You've found your villains, mate. Congrats: your story can start here.
They are a good bunch of guys, they know what they are doing and they can adapt to the changes. :)
Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks. |
Liv Forever
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:13:00 -
[62]
thanks Setana
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:14:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Liv Forever
Some of the arguments that people have made from experience make sense to me and I am thinking about them-such as the real impact of ISK buying etc and how it's impact is less than i supposed.
Depends on what a "real impact" is. Will GTC however have a real impact on your game-experience the day you loose your hard earned navy mega to a guy who afforded a domination scrambler instead of a T2? Will GTC have a real impact on your 10 man corp when your enemies and can sustain war for another few weeks/months by buying a few GTCs. Will GTC have an impact on your gameplay when a competing trader can afford to buy a stack of items that he would have to save for a few weeks to do otherwise, before you?
Is GTC bringing Eve to its downfall? No most certainly not. Would T20's continued favours for BoB bring EvE to its downfall? No most certainly not.
That said it's still a major imbalance imo.
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Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:25:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Liv Forever
Some of the arguments that people have made from experience make sense to me and I am thinking about them-such as the real impact of ISK buying etc and how it's impact is less than i supposed.
Depends on what a "real impact" is. Will GTC however have a real impact on your game-experience the day you loose your hard earned navy mega to a guy who afforded a domination scrambler instead of a T2? Will GTC have a real impact on your 10 man corp when your enemies and can sustain war for another few weeks/months by buying a few GTCs. Will GTC have an impact on your gameplay when a competing trader can afford to buy a stack of items that he would have to save for a few weeks to do otherwise, before you?
Is GTC bringing Eve to its downfall? No most certainly not. Would T20's continued favours for BoB bring EvE to its downfall? No most certainly not.
That said it's still a major imbalance imo.
I'd dispute "major". Given that there's a finite demand for GTCs, there's a limit to how much imbalancing can be done by them. I could buy 50,000 90-days, but I wouldn't get 400M each for them if I did (Oveur would get his Porsche though).
A few GTCs can provide a single player with a relatively large short-term advantage, but on a corp level, the effect is much diluted. On an alliance level, almost intangible.
People who are self-centered enough to "cheat" with GTCs are probably too selfish to help their whole alliance anyway. They'll ensure that they themselves have the faction fit BS, but buying ships for the whole fleet? Seems less likely somehow.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:37:00 -
[65]
I call BS on that, all my GTC sales and the single character sale profits have gone towards my corp
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:40:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Liv Forever
Some of the arguments that people have made from experience make sense to me and I am thinking about them-such as the real impact of ISK buying etc and how it's impact is less than i supposed.
Depends on what a "real impact" is. Will GTC however have a real impact on your game-experience the day you loose your hard earned navy mega to a guy who afforded a domination scrambler instead of a T2? Will GTC have a real impact on your 10 man corp when your enemies and can sustain war for another few weeks/months by buying a few GTCs. Will GTC have an impact on your gameplay when a competing trader can afford to buy a stack of items that he would have to save for a few weeks to do otherwise, before you?
Is GTC bringing Eve to its downfall? No most certainly not. Would T20's continued favours for BoB bring EvE to its downfall? No most certainly not.
That said it's still a major imbalance imo.
I'd dispute "major". Given that there's a finite demand for GTCs, there's a limit to how much imbalancing can be done by them. I could buy 50,000 90-days, but I wouldn't get 400M each for them if I did (Oveur would get his Porsche though).
A few GTCs can provide a single player with a relatively large short-term advantage, but on a corp level, the effect is much diluted. On an alliance level, almost intangible.
GTCs can have a quite substansial impact on smaller corps. Can't provide a link but I remember a player selling a ****load of GTCs worth tens of billions. Just a few billion isk could in many cases heavily shift the outcome of small scale wars and conflicts. And even tho the impact on an alliance-scale might (there are rumors of goons funding the war partially by gtc) not be so significat, there would still be an impact nontheless.
And I still think it's a major imbalance. I wouldn't care if a GTC gave you 1 ISK instead of 400M ISK, the mere fact that someone is getting an in-game advantage by using IRL money and that it in the end could result in me loosing a ship is well enough for me to call it a major imbalance.
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Kenneth McCoy
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:48:00 -
[67]
I'm not 12, try reversing those numbers. I might be a *****, but I'm coherent.
Also, I think this argument is over.
My opinions and views are not the official views of my Corp. |
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GM Nova
Game Masters
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Posted - 2007.11.25 01:50:00 -
[68]
Hi Liv Forever, welcome to EVE Online.
I am sorry you have not received a dev reply, but I'll tell you why. This dead horse has been beaten so often and hard that only the fozzilized bones remain really. If you do a search for real money trade, GTC trade or ISK selling, it will return hundreds of threads with dozens of dev replies. There is no need to reply to yours, there is nothing new.
Oh wait.... why am I replying?
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 25/11/2007 00:57:27 Amazing how long people keep beating dead horses.....
While GTC sales aren't my cup of tea, having them solves more problems than they cause. 1. I puts a ceiling to the price ISK-farmers can charge for their ill-gotten gains. 2. It enables people to play who couldn't otherwise afford it. More players is good. 3. It enables people to play who couldn't be arsed grinding, but who likes to PvP. Whether you call that cheating or not, it means more players which is good. 4. Having a safe method for doing the exchange means less players get scammed.
If GTC sales hadn't been condoned by CCP, guess what! It would have happened anyway!
The OP can wish as much as he wants for the perfect world of Blizard's WoW (awfully crappy game, btw), but they do have REALLY big problems with gold farming and selling which are much less in EVE.
Kerfira is my new hero.
What he said. And to add to that...
5. There is a limited demand for GTCs. You can't sell a million GTCs since there aren't a million buyers. So the distribution of wealth is limited by the demand.
Did I say distribution of wealth? Why, Yes I did. You see, no ISK is being created out of thin air. The buyers will in most cases we hope, have earned the ISK by ingame means. So, this means that ingame wealth is being shifted arround and not injected.
P.S We are discussing the official supported secure GTC trade. Any other for of GTC trade for ISK is a EULA violation.
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Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.25 02:04:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Liv Forever
Some of the arguments that people have made from experience make sense to me and I am thinking about them-such as the real impact of ISK buying etc and how it's impact is less than i supposed.
Depends on what a "real impact" is. Will GTC however have a real impact on your game-experience the day you loose your hard earned navy mega to a guy who afforded a domination scrambler instead of a T2? Will GTC have a real impact on your 10 man corp when your enemies and can sustain war for another few weeks/months by buying a few GTCs. Will GTC have an impact on your gameplay when a competing trader can afford to buy a stack of items that he would have to save for a few weeks to do otherwise, before you?
Is GTC bringing Eve to its downfall? No most certainly not. Would T20's continued favours for BoB bring EvE to its downfall? No most certainly not.
That said it's still a major imbalance imo.
I'd dispute "major". Given that there's a finite demand for GTCs, there's a limit to how much imbalancing can be done by them. I could buy 50,000 90-days, but I wouldn't get 400M each for them if I did (Oveur would get his Porsche though).
A few GTCs can provide a single player with a relatively large short-term advantage, but on a corp level, the effect is much diluted. On an alliance level, almost intangible.
GTCs can have a quite substansial impact on smaller corps. Can't provide a link but I remember a player selling a ****load of GTCs worth tens of billions. Just a few billion isk could in many cases heavily shift the outcome of small scale wars and conflicts. And even tho the impact on an alliance-scale might (there are rumors of goons funding the war partially by gtc) not be so significat, there would still be an impact nontheless.
And I still think it's a major imbalance. I wouldn't care if a GTC gave you 1 ISK instead of 400M ISK, the mere fact that someone is getting an in-game advantage by using IRL money and that it in the end could result in me loosing a ship is well enough for me to call it a major imbalance.
I have some good friends in the game. I'll match them against any single player and whatever number of GTCs he cares to apply....
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.25 02:10:00 -
[70]
Personally, I find the idea of an "even playing field" is impossible to achieve in any large-scale game worth playing. Then again, Eve Online is the only pay-to-play MMO I've ever considered worth playing. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2007.11.25 03:17:00 -
[71]
CCP doesnt condone cheating
Not since they got caught cheating
Burn in hell bob
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Smakko
Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.25 03:37:00 -
[72]
In some games you can buy in-game currency for real money. EvE doesn't go this far, it merely facilitates a secondary market for game subscription coupons. So, they encourage people to buy more game time... which is pretty much the whole point.
Seems pretty principled to me. I understand the controversy, but there have been better, more thoughtful discussions on this topic in the past. I'd appreciate it if in the future you'd keep your poorly thought out posts to yourself, especially if you plan on trolling your own thread with ad hominem attacks and bombastic demands for official replies. Also, uselessly polemical and pugnacious thread titles are annoying.
I posted in this thread, got the T-Shirt.
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Franga
Caldari NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.25 04:24:00 -
[73]
Hi Mum! Also - the obligatory 'Posting in a thread.' comment.
Always a winner. _____________________________ Eldo spanked my sig but I can't be bothered changing it just now. |
Franga
Caldari NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.25 04:25:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Smakko In some games you can buy in-game currency for real money. EvE doesn't go this far, it merely facilitates a secondary market for game subscription coupons. So, they encourage people to buy more game time... which is pretty much the whole point.
Seems pretty principled to me. I understand the controversy, but there have been better, more thoughtful discussions on this topic in the past. I'd appreciate it if in the future you'd keep your poorly thought out posts to yourself, especially if you plan on trolling your own thread with ad hominem attacks and bombastic demands for official replies. Also, uselessly polemical and pugnacious thread titles are annoying.
I posted in this thread, got the T-Shirt.
Your sig is freaking awesome. Sciius FTL!
"Come 5 regions and defend my honor you tools!" _____________________________ Eldo spanked my sig but I can't be bothered changing it just now. |
Garborg
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.25 04:37:00 -
[75]
Having the ability to make IKS >>>> than having ISK
No matter what you have or what you buy, it will eventually get blown up. The ability to make IKS is power, not the ISK itself.
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Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.11.25 04:50:00 -
[76]
some people can only play via buying gtc for isk. If CCP stopped this a huge amount of the community would drop subscriptions. This is actually a sort of RL wealth redistribution as people with RL money get more isk by selling GTC and people without much RL money get EvE:)
The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty. |
Shakuul
Caldari O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2007.11.25 07:08:00 -
[77]
Time is money, and CCP allows some people to play as much as they can possibly sit in front of a computer screen and play, giving an unfair advantage to people who have lots of free time.
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Viper G
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Posted - 2007.11.25 07:32:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Viper G on 25/11/2007 07:34:06 Edited by: Viper G on 25/11/2007 07:33:48 The point that is being missed is all mmorpgs have cheaters.
For example, tell me a mainstream mmorpg's currency that isn't listed on ebay or some other website.
WOW, THERE AREN'T ANY. Case in point(s):
It's impossible to stop multi-accounting. It's impossible to stop out of game money buying.
In all mmorpgs. So, know that you know this, how do we make it less of a problem...
That is what CCP did, they re-directed the massive amount of money (that was HAPPENING anyways and CANNOT be stopped) to them selves.
Which is a good thing because now (CCP Gets more money, which means more resources, which means...duh)
Not only are they reaping the benefits, they are allowing people to use their game ISK as real money to pay for their subscription.
IMO, it's actually pretty cool.
PS (NOW GO AND TRY TO FIND ISK ON EBAY, THERE SHOULD BE ABOUT 5000 ISK LISTTINGS, oh wow, where did they all go???? HMMM WEIRD)
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Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.25 07:47:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Moghydin on 25/11/2007 07:50:12 Well, of course absolutely fair MMORPG is a dream, but there's no such thing. Life is unfair, video games are a part of it. Is it fair that one is born into a hard working family who struggles financially and another one is a heir of some financial empire? Is it fair that one goes to some ghetto school and ends up in a gang or as a ***** addict and another goes to top rate private school and graduates from Harvard School of Business? Is it fair that you've been rejected for a job and the guy who's got it is a son of the CEO's best friend? Accept it, it's much easier to accept in game than IRL if you think about it, because it's just a game after all.
In my earlier days I've made flaming posts about GTCs, I was outraged. Now, I don't care that much. Yes, he can have that faction pimped battleship that I can't afford, but it will make it even sweeter when he goes down to a gang of my friends. I can buy GTC's because some GTC's aren't really an amount of money I care about. But Eve is a game, and I know that the day I feel that I absolutely HAVE TO buy GTCs is the day I quit Eve, because that day Eve will stop being just an entertainment and will turn into something else, something I don't want it to become.
Btw, I think the accusation that supercap pilots bought Titans with GTC ISK is bull****, those guys are alliance leaders and for big 0.0 alliances accumulating ISK and resources for a Titan should not pose an unsurmountable challenge.
When those GTC sellers can become a problem? When we are talking about mass scale operations. It can be a problem with ppl buying T2 BPOs for GTC money. And it is a major problem when the whole alliance finances its war effort from GTC sales of one or several extremely rich IRL guys. There are rumors that Goons partly financing its war effort with GTCs, but those are just rumors before any proof is presented.
Press alt+F4 to reduce lag |
Thaneal Swiftbird
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Posted - 2007.11.25 09:01:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Viper G
WOW, THERE AREN'T ANY. Case in point(s):
It's impossible to stop multi-accounting. It's impossible to stop out of game money buying.
In all mmorpgs. So, know that you know this, how do we make it less of a problem...
That is wrong, even if the example I am about to give is a bit special.
KRO (the original, korean branch of Ragnarok Online) has a strict "one account per person" rule. This is enforced by the necessity to give a valid korean passport ID on account creation.
Now... I guess you will say "But it¦s easy to forge a passport ID!". Well, it may be. But afaik that is considered to be high-treason in korea. They have a death penalty on that. So guess how many dual accounters ther might be.
As I said, a very special and singular example, but still a MMO (with a lot more subscibers then eve has) without multiple accounts. So you are proven wrong, no matter what.
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Rilus
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Posted - 2007.11.25 09:03:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Cpt Fina Legalizing something just because you can't effectively stop it?
Nice logic.
Isk-buyers are getting an unfair in-game advantage. 14 dollars per month will only grant you Eve-light.
Perfect logic. What's illogical is to make unenforceable rules and policies. For example, to some people using guides, maps, etc for MMOs or any other game is cheating. However, it would be stupid and pointless to make a rule against it since it cannot be enforced.
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Rilus
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Posted - 2007.11.25 09:06:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Thaneal Swiftbird
That is wrong, even if the example I am about to give is a bit special.
KRO (the original, korean branch of Ragnarok Online) has a strict "one account per person" rule. This is enforced by the necessity to give a valid korean passport ID on account creation.
Now... I guess you will say "But it¦s easy to forge a passport ID!". Well, it may be. But afaik that is considered to be high-treason in korea. They have a death penalty on that. So guess how many dual accounters ther might be.
As I said, a very special and singular example, but still a MMO (with a lot more subscibers then eve has) without multiple accounts. So you are proven wrong, no matter what.
You're right. Your example IS special. Unless there's some sort of global ID, CCP cannot check the "uniqueness" of accounts.
Besides, even if there was, I could use my wife's ID or my father's, mother's brother's, sister-in-law's, etc. All of whom do not play this game and still have multiple accounts.
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.11.25 09:25:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Rilus
Originally by: Cpt Fina Legalizing something just because you can't effectively stop it?
Nice logic.
Isk-buyers are getting an unfair in-game advantage. 14 dollars per month will only grant you Eve-light.
Perfect logic. What's illogical is to make unenforceable rules and policies.
Like shoplifting? The gouvernment have a hard time stopping it and should therefor make it legal? It's a RL anology but it's the same principle.
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Seizing
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Posted - 2007.11.25 09:45:00 -
[84]
The only thing I would have to add is: I like to play Eve Online. Except, I do not have huge amounts of free time to grind away NPC's for isk or any of the other huge time investments in order to make large amounts of isk. Because of this, should I always remain uncompetative? It is just transferring "time" from one person to another. The player that is buying the time card has put in the time in the game to aquire the isk. The person selling the time cards has put in time that most of the time could not be spent inside the game because of work etc. They just change hands and everyone is happy. It does not greatly imbalance the eve universe. Granted I am sure there are a handfull of rich players that neither grind the isk in game nor put in real life work time to pay for the eve time cards, but they are a small minority.
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Caine Azuris
Gallente Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.25 10:00:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 24/11/2007 23:21:44 Edited by: Liv Forever on 24/11/2007 23:21:15 Thanks for the intelligent replies. Interestingly nothing official yet. If i were them I would be to embarrassed, hypocritical or contradicted to say anything either. I mean really they can't have a valid argument that doesnt't sound like bs. Can they?
They dont have to justify anything to players. Although is some cases it would suit them to keep players playing. Also CCP have NOTHING to be ashamed of.
1. Selling GTC helps keep the game funded and alive, which is good becuase a lot of us like to play eve.
2. Just becuase people (myself included) sell GTC for isk doesnt make me uber, although it does when I buy a 20m SP character XD (jelous?) But usually most people buy GTC to help keep their accounts running without having to spend IRL $.
3. Yes it does affect the market somewhat if enough people do it, however so does buying/selling isk. And I bet some of the people who have ever complained about GTC buying/selling are the same people who can just buy isk stright up for a lot cheaper. And THAT hurts the game/players more than anything.
So yeah call me a "newb" for buying/selling GTC but in the end I do more for this game to keep it alive than you have (for those who bash GTCommerce). <-new word I just made up, like it? And for every one person I see complaining about it, there are 30 more who want to buy my GTC's. And yeah if I seem a bit passionate about this its becuase I hate seeing people bash CCP over things like this. CCP wouldnt have made this ok if it didnt suit them or the game. ------------
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Rilus
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Posted - 2007.11.25 10:06:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Rilus on 25/11/2007 10:13:27
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Rilus
Originally by: Cpt Fina Legalizing something just because you can't effectively stop it?
Nice logic.
Isk-buyers are getting an unfair in-game advantage. 14 dollars per month will only grant you Eve-light.
Perfect logic. What's illogical is to make unenforceable rules and policies.
Like shoplifting? The gouvernment have a hard time stopping it and should therefor make it legal? It's a RL anology but it's the same principle.
Hard to enforce is not the same as unenforceable. As an example, Prohibition was not reasonably enforceable and they eventually rescinded it. Many other laws have been changed or removed entirely from the books because they're reasonably unenforceable. Unfortunately, many laws remain that are not enforceable simply because of people's perception that if something is illegal now, it must be inherently bad/immoral/unethical/unhealthy/etc and, therefore, should remain illegal.
To answer your question: If a law is not enforceable, it should be removed.
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Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.25 10:29:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Caine Azuris
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 24/11/2007 23:21:44 Edited by: Liv Forever on 24/11/2007 23:21:15 Thanks for the intelligent replies. Interestingly nothing official yet. If i were them I would be to embarrassed, hypocritical or contradicted to say anything either. I mean really they can't have a valid argument that doesnt't sound like bs. Can they?
They dont have to justify anything to players. Although is some cases it would suit them to keep players playing. Also CCP have NOTHING to be ashamed of.
1. Selling GTC helps keep the game funded and alive, which is good becuase a lot of us like to play eve.
2. Just becuase people (myself included) sell GTC for isk doesnt make me uber, although it does when I buy a 20m SP character XD (jelous?) But usually most people buy GTC to help keep their accounts running without having to spend IRL $.
3. Yes it does affect the market somewhat if enough people do it, however so does buying/selling isk. And I bet some of the people who have ever complained about GTC buying/selling are the same people who can just buy isk stright up for a lot cheaper. And THAT hurts the game/players more than anything.
So yeah call me a "newb" for buying/selling GTC but in the end I do more for this game to keep it alive than you have (for those who bash GTCommerce). <-new word I just made up, like it? And for every one person I see complaining about it, there are 30 more who want to buy my GTC's. And yeah if I seem a bit passionate about this its becuase I hate seeing people bash CCP over things like this. CCP wouldnt have made this ok if it didnt suit them or the game.
How does buying 20 mill sp char make you uber? It's nothing special.
I think the person who sells GTC's isn't necessarily a newb, but he surely takes the game (and his in-game ego) too seriously for a video game.
Press alt+F4 to reduce lag |
Caine Azuris
Gallente Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.25 10:33:00 -
[88]
It was a joke, of course 20m SP is nothing. But according to the anti GTC guys I am. ------------
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Elis Verone
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.25 10:35:00 -
[89]
people can buy game codes..cheating it is... and people doing it is LAME.. and ccp is lame for aloving it. they should instead start doing something to the isk sellers, wich we STILL get tons of mails from promoting sites.. i even stopped petitioning it. theres simply to many.. eithermake it fully legit or do something..
gtc sellers are rich bastids who gain something all others dont.. so ccp tells the rich bastids that they can get further in the game than the hard working person who mins or rat all day to get a carier, while the gtc seller gets a mothership.. wheres thelogic in that...
all saying its cool are also idiots. enough said..
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.11.25 10:37:00 -
[90]
And I bet everyone *****ing about the rich r/l ppl also have more than 2 accounts
Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues.
Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick |
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