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5.4 How are new players protected from others with malicious intent?

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sukio	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:13:00 - [1] they arnt. thats why so many people cancel their subscriptions after only a month or two. what should be done is to make empire space very difficult for pirates and PVP jerks (people that blow up ships vastly inferrior to themselves or unarmed primarily to cause other players pain) revamp the security system to better address pirates better flags and identifiers several examples make it so that if a pirate attacks another player their account is flagged as hostile. not just the charactor they currently on, if someone is getting attacked anyone can retaliate against the attacker without a security hit lastly is grouped the pirate is also attackable to any group member much better explaination about when you can and cannot fire back without screwing yourself. here is an example: a barge is mining rock, and a pirate comes up and either loots his can or targets and enguages the barge,, the barge calls for help and a friend shows up in a cruiser can he legaly defend the barge? without it being a crime? does grouping or not grouping make any difference? if your flying along and see a pirate say at a station or a gate can you legally enguage him? or will you get penalized? EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:49:00 - [2] Tough. Eve is meant to be dark and harsh and certainly isn't for everyone. Unlike in wow which is cuddly and fluffy, you can take really hard losses in eve which can make you cry . Those who learn from mistakes, take advice from older players on how to survive and adapt will grow to love the game. Those who cry at the first hurdle and leave.......... good riddance! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Lothros Andastar Gallente Imperium Forces United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:11:00 - [3] Today is the day I rip my nuts off as promised because I am agreeing with a Bob :) EvE isnt cuddly or even fun! Its a hard cold dark universe! There are 200k active accounts (so on average about 90k players) which is perfect! We dont want hundeds of n00bs! CCP make oodles of cash (which is all sucked up in TQ matanance bills >.<) and we dont need any more n00bs :) If for evey 100 people who try the game 90 quit well thats a good thing no?
sukio	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:18:00 - [4] Originally by: fire 59 Tough. Eve is meant to be dark and harsh and certainly isn't for everyone. Unlike in wow which is cuddly and fluffy, you can take really hard losses in eve which can make you cry . Those who learn from mistakes, take advice from older players on how to survive and adapt will grow to love the game. Those who cry at the first hurdle and leave.......... good riddance! it doesnt have to be so dark and harsh that only 200k people can stand to subscribe and id say a fare amount of those are farmers or multiple accounts otherwise there would be more than 20k people on at any given time as soon as there is an EVE game without griefers ruining players enjoyment and id go in a second, make a low-pvp or no-pvp server. the simplest is to make a non-pvp faction so you can opt out yet still subscribe and enjoy the parts of eve that we love. eve should be an MMO not a FPS if i wanted to play a FPS id buy a console or goto the arcade. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Lothros Andastar Gallente Imperium Forces United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Lothros Andastar on 25/11/2007 12:23:13 Originally by: sukio Originally by: fire 59 Tough. Eve is meant to be dark and harsh and certainly isn't for everyone. Unlike in wow which is cuddly and fluffy, you can take really hard losses in eve which can make you cry . Those who learn from mistakes, take advice from older players on how to survive and adapt will grow to love the game. Those who cry at the first hurdle and leave.......... good riddance! it doesnt have to be so dark and harsh that only 200k people can stand to subscribe and id say a fare amount of those are farmers or multiple accounts otherwise there would be more than 20k people on at any given time as soon as there is an EVE game without griefers ruining players enjoyment and id go in a second, make a low-pvp or no-pvp server. the simplest is to make a non-pvp faction so you can opt out yet still subscribe and enjoy the parts of eve that we love. eve should be an MMO not a FPS if i wanted to play a FPS id buy a console or goto the arcade. Dude you are really starting to f*ck me off. EvE is a PVP game it always has and always will be. If you dont like it PLEASE QUIT! Go to the arcade or go play an FPS you god damn n00b! Just stop spouting off crap that noone else listens too! Please go and play WoW if you dont want PVP! As to your statement that EvE should be a MMO, people forget that the first MMO's were PvP based but of course whiny n00bs like youself coulnt take it so things like wow which were PvE based come along
sukio	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Lothros Andastar Today is the day I rip my nuts off as promised because I am agreeing with a Bob :) EvE isnt cuddly or even fun! Its a hard cold dark universe! There are 200k active accounts (so on average about 90k players) which is perfect! We dont want hundeds of n00bs! CCP make oodles of cash (which is all sucked up in TQ matanance bills >.<) and we dont need any more n00bs :) If for evey 100 people who try the game 90 quit well thats a good thing no? no maby its because I come from the US but I think players should be free to play as they wish, as long as they arnt infringing on other players freedom to play as they wish. maby if the PVP wasnt so roothless and allowed newer players to play in the shallow end instead of getting gang raped there would be more people getting involved with PVP instead of getting soured on it by some of the lowest scum ever to play a game. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Lothros Andastar Gallente Imperium Forces United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:33:00 - [7] Lol your from the US? ok sorry about that I thought you maybe had some brain cells let me dumb down my argument for you... EvE is about freedom. If you dont want to PvP stay in high sec. SOmetime U will be scuicided for the lulz but thats very rare ive never had it happen to me. And why are pirates scum? They play the game they want to play? By disallowing PvP isnt that the antithesis of your "Im american so I belive in freedoms" bullsh\|t? Also if this hurt your feeling well tough nuggets go and cry while you play WoW. Also if any of this post was too complicated for you please say and ill try and accomidate you. For me Stupidity is a disability we should all try to help :) (p.s: To the other fine players of EvE: Dont take any comments here to apply to you no matter how broad they seem, they are all focused on the idiot here :P)
sukio	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:35:00 - [8] Originally by: Lothros Andastar Lol your from the US? ok sorry about that I thought you maybe had some brain cells let me dumb down my argument for you... EvE is about freedom. If you dont want to PvP stay in high sec. SOmetime U will be scuicided for the lulz but thats very rare ive never had it happen to me. And why are pirates scum? They play the game they want to play? By disallowing PvP isnt that the antithesis of your "Im american so I belive in freedoms" bullsh\|t? Also if this hurt your feeling well tough nuggets go and cry while you play WoW. for your information WOW isnt anything like EVE no spaceships no interstelar trade, no mining astroids understand? there scum because they infring on others freedom alot like a terrorists or a rapists are you saying you would want your wife or daughter raped thats what they want to do? dissalowing wholesale PVP is presurving freedom for ALL PVPers can still shoot each other all they want. how long would you live in a city where everyday you went to work you stood a good chance of someone blowing up your car and occasionally they even break into your house and beat you senseless? and im not even talking about going and LOOKING for a fight im talking if you were a non-combat civilian. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Lothros Andastar Gallente Imperium Forces United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:38:00 - [9] Edited by: Lothros Andastar on 25/11/2007 13:39:13 oooooooook? Real Life =/= EvE Also I dont have a daughter or a wife so i dont have an oppinion on that... And in case you havent noticed, noone is forcing you to play the game. If you want a fully PvE server go pay for it yourself And noone is forcing you to get blown up by pirates. Run away, fit WCS, FIGHT BACK! Can I get an ISD to shut this guy up please? he's driven me to the point of agreeing with a Bobbit >.<
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:54:00 - [10] Buy X3 and play as you want. Multiplayer games are about interaction.
Kittamaru Gallente Ceptacemia Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.25 14:40:00 - [11] Edited by: Kittamaru on 25/11/2007 14:41:14 Originally by: sukio no maby its because I come from the US but I think players should be free to play as they wish, as long as they arnt infringing on other players freedom to play as they wish. maby if the PVP wasnt so roothless and allowed newer players to play in the shallow end instead of getting gang raped there would be more people getting involved with PVP instead of getting soured on it by some of the lowest scum ever to play a game. And in EvE they are free to play as they wish. Your rights mean NOTHING in an online GAME. I'm a US Citizen to... don't make us ALL look stupid because you're ******. In EvE, you are free to do what you want... hence Piracy is a CAREER CHOICE and players are FREE to KILL YOU as they please. If they do it in empire, the suffer the consequences! Hope you never see me in space... I've already set you to -10 since it's obvious you trained *** n moan to lvl 5... Also, L2 Write... there =/= They Are... They're = They Are... godDAMN some people make me want to go bankai on em!
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.25 14:48:00 - [12] Eve is a pvp game. Not just with the shooting but market interaction, mining, competition etc. The day they introduce no pvp zones would be the death knell of this game. I love that it's dangerous everywhere, even i empire which i shop in from time to time you have to be alert and on your toes because of suicide gankers, scammers etc. You get rewarded for thinking fast and using your brain and punished for being ignorant and dumb and refusing to adapt, expecting the game to adapt to you. EVE IS A PVP GAME, NOT A MINING SIMULATION http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.11.25 14:53:00 - [13] We aren't protected from others with malicious intent. That's a major part of what Eve is. There is a line that can be crossed when it is called griefing, and that clause will protect you for the first day in your rookie ship in Todaki. Beyond that, you're on your own. Originally by: sukio here is an example: a barge is mining rock, and a pirate comes up and either loots his can or targets and enguages the barge,, the barge calls for help and a friend shows up in a cruiser can he legaly defend the barge? without it being a crime? does grouping or not grouping make any difference? In highsec the pirate gets blown away by CONCORD if he attacks you. If he robs you, a corpmate can go blast him. Or, YOU can go get in an armed ship and blast him (generally considered a bad idea if you don't know what you're doing). If you're in lowsec or 0.0. . . WTF are you doing mining alone in potentially hostile space in a barge and not watching local? -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.25 14:53:00 - [14] Originally by: sukio for your information WOW isnt anything like EVE no spaceships no interstelar trade, no mining astroids understand? there scum because they infring on others freedom alot like a terrorists or a rapists are you saying you would want your wife or daughter raped thats what they want to do? dissalowing wholesale PVP is presurving freedom for ALL PVPers can still shoot each other all they want. how long would you live in a city where everyday you went to work you stood a good chance of someone blowing up your car and occasionally they even break into your house and beat you senseless? and im not even talking about going and LOOKING for a fight im talking if you were a non-combat civilian. Ever heard of high sec space? You can carebear up there as much as you want --------------------------------------- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.25 23:36:00 - [15] Edited by: McFly on 25/11/2007 23:37:53 Edited by: McFly on 25/11/2007 23:37:00 sukio, you need to shoot yourself. If you want to mine all day long and enjoy every second of it. Please do, you can make that choice. However if you decided to chose to mine in a system with numbers and letters for a name, and on top of that you left to get a coke out of the fridge, followed by the even dumber mistake of being alone in said system. You should die. PVP is EVE. The only way you can combat/avoid PVP is... 1: Play a different game... 2: Learn how the flagging and criminal system works in empire specifically... 3: Join an Alliance, they like miners in their deep 0.0 systems making them money/resources... Countless times Oveur has said that the biggest theme in eve is "Big Reward for Big Risk." So if you want to fly a barge out to 0.4-0.1 for those better minerals, you're taking a risk... If you fly out into 0.0 as a neutral, which is basically walking into an alliance's backyard with a bow on your head, expect to lose everything you left the last concord patrolled gate with. This is the way the game is, if you sit in a .9 system and mine away veldspar you'll never have to worry about a rifter popping your hulk. But from time to time the suicide gank kessie may come through. Deal with it, it's not real life, it sucks to lose ships, but you can always buy/build more.... So quit trolling the forums because you wanted to play X3 instead...go buy it, install it, and then mine away all day long, you don't even need that pesky i-net bill anymore... edit: and for some reason I too am agreeing with a BoB....<<ewww get the taste out!!!>> -->Fire59: Kicka** sig, btw.... -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
Gnord	Posted - 2007.11.26 00:42:00 - [16] One very easy way to do this is to change the default auto-target back. A newbie gets targeted the system automatically targets back a new player sees somebody that appears to be attacking them, so they try to fight back. Concord is flagged, the newb dies. If the system doesn't default auto-target back, experienced players that USE that system will still set it, and the newbs will have less accidental concordings.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises Alternative Realities	Posted - 2007.11.26 01:11:00 - [17] Originally by: fire 59 Tough. Eve is meant to be dark and harsh and certainly isn't for everyone. Hmm, sometimes I ask myself if it's really dark and harsh, or if it's just childish and gankish. (Too) Many times it reminds me of a schoolyard full of bullies instead of a dark and harsh world, made for real men and women. Anyway.. After all, it should be 'dark and harsh' for everyone, including the hard-boiled PvP pro's. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
Ai Sakura	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:47:00 - [18] Hmm lets have our industrial alts all join the Non PVP corporation so we may fund our legions of mains without fear of being attacked... we may have cheap ships, cheap equipment and carefree hauling.... wow logistical heaven FTW!!
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:13:00 - [19] Quote: Lol your from the US? ok sorry about that I thought you maybe had some brain cells let me dumb down my argument for you...
Anja Lind Caldari United Forces	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:23:00 - [20] Magnificent troll. Very well executed. Now, back to serious things, yes?
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:38:00 - [21] Originally by: sukio no maby its because I come from the US but I think players should be free to play as they wish, as long as they arnt infringing on other players freedom to play as they wish. As a citizen of the US, I am somewhat offended by that. I request that you quit EvE and move to a different country. And give me all your stuff in both cases. High-sec is plenty safe, you just have to remember that the default condition, the EvE "state of nature" is 0.0, and everything in empire is added onto that. High-sec is 0.0, but with criminal flags, sentries, faction navies, Concord and billboards in it, and with rules about cyno fields and interdictors. It's all about perspective. You imagine EvE as a single-player game that has the added feature of other people playing in the same space, so you can see them flying around and get a sense of community. That's not what it is. It's a multiplayer world, with little activities that you can participate in and compete at. Those other players aren't background, they aren't scenery, they aren't a distraction. They're the game. Some will help you sometimes, others will hurt you for fun. Have you seen Highlander? The main character has friends who are immortals, like he is. They hang out together, meet up every few decades and have a drink. They work together to complete projects, and they cooperate to do what they think is right. But they know, in the back of their heads, that in the end only one of them will remain, and that if you and your best friend are the last two immortals, then one of you will decapitate the other. That's the attitude you need in EvE. You're in a fight to the finish with everyone else in the galaxy. Sometimes you'll work together, sometimes you'll stay out of one another's way, but when someone decides that your destruction is in their best interests, you're in a fight. Ignoring it, failing to prepare for it, whining about it and quitting because of it are common reactions, and none of them are the right answer. The appropriate thing to do is fight the fight. Ideally, you'll win. Likely, you'll lose. I got my butt kicked up between my shoulderblades on a regular basis when I was a newb. I cried about it on the forum, I once suggested that T2 ships be removed from EvE (I still think that's a good idea, even though I fly them now), and I even sat hiding in a station for three weeks one time while some jerks in HACs sat outside podding me and my corpmates whenever we tried to go anyplace. Examine your situation from a tactical standpoint. Are you a weak, inexperienced character wandering around an area with high population density performing actions that are easy for a passing person to abuse? Are you covered with wool, and utter a bleating sound when kicked? Go somewhere else, make friends with people who can protect you, learn how to turn those beatings into fights, then how to turn fights into victories. Or you could, you know, gb2wow. Crusades: Bounties & Security Status
Lothros Andastar Gallente Imperium Forces United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.26 06:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader ---stuff--- Ahh if only you were in the UK id send you a pint of beer :) /shakes hand
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:06:00 - [23] Originally by: sukio Originally by: Lothros Andastar Today is the day I rip my nuts off as promised because I am agreeing with a Bob :) EvE isnt cuddly or even fun! Its a hard cold dark universe! There are 200k active accounts (so on average about 90k players) which is perfect! We dont want hundeds of n00bs! CCP make oodles of cash (which is all sucked up in TQ matanance bills >.<) and we dont need any more n00bs :) If for evey 100 people who try the game 90 quit well thats a good thing no? no maby its because I come from the US but I think players should be free to play as they wish, as long as they arnt infringing on other players freedom to play as they wish. maby if the PVP wasnt so roothless and allowed newer players to play in the shallow end instead of getting gang raped there would be more people getting involved with PVP instead of getting soured on it by some of the lowest scum ever to play a game. Ok now I hate you even more than I would normally. It's people like you who make others think everyone in the US is a complete moron. -----sig-starts-here------ I survived Armageddon Day. I'm just too lazy to put a picture of a nuke in here.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:33:00 - [24] If ur a noob, afaik if u stay in hi sec there is not much chance u get ganked hard unless ur too trusting. A good dose of paranoia is needed and should be acquired asap if u want to continue playing this game. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.11.26 15:33:00 - [25] This (and many other problems) could be solved by removing ship insurance (who would insure privately owned combat ships? there's no way the insurance company is profitable) and by removing alts. Too many so-called pvp'ers hide from the consequences with trade alts, etc. and ship insurance. Eve is supposed to be harsh, but these 2 things turn supposedly hardcore pvp'ers into nothing more than pvp carebears tbh. Also, one thing that sets Eve apart is that your character gets a reputation, is somebody in the galaxy. This is dimished by alts. As for insurance, in rl (yes, Eve isn't rl, blah, blah), no nsurance company pays out when your car is damaged while you are in the midst of committing a criminal act. Insurance policies also exclude damage due to acts of war. Simply, there should be no insurnace, except (maybe) for non-combat ships, but even then the risk probably renders them uninsurable. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:14:00 - [26] Originally by: sukio for your information WOW isnt anything like EVE no spaceships no interstelar trade, no mining astroids understand? there scum because they infring on others freedom alot like a terrorists or a rapists are you saying you would want your wife or daughter raped thats what they want to do? dissalowing wholesale PVP is presurving freedom for ALL PVPers can still shoot each other all they want. how long would you live in a city where everyday you went to work you stood a good chance of someone blowing up your car and occasionally they even break into your house and beat you senseless? and im not even talking about going and LOOKING for a fight im talking if you were a non-combat civilian. Though there are oddities compared to modern society (I bring these up all the time in arguements) what you are describing is NOT what EvE is about. I'm about as carebear as they come, and I love the fact that EvE is a dangerous place, even in HighSec. I seriously think you are playing the wrong game if this is how you feel about how CCP designed the game. No shame in that, EvE isn't for everyone. But it also isn't as bad as you are saying, you can be 99.99% safe if you CHOSE to be Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc	Posted - 2007.11.26 19:20:00 - [27] Unless all you do is orbit the station in a noob-ship, you're engaging in some form of PvP. Even the most 'harmless' of Carebears are engaging in PvP. The 1.0 miner with a Hulk strips several belts of ore, depriving anyone else from those resources. PvP. The market expert who never has to undock...especially deadly. Never has to undock to make a fortune, and denies others from the most profitable transactions. PvP That guy who just locked, scrambled and webbed you is just the obvious PvPer. And as for newb protection....Everyone has to learn that this isn't Hello Kitty, one way or another. Even if you sit each newb down and tell them straight out, it never really sinks in until a few ships have been blown up. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.26 21:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Maxpie As for insurance, in rl (yes, Eve isn't rl, blah, blah), no nsurance company pays out when your car is damaged while you are in the midst of committing a criminal act. I'm going to call BS on this one just as I did in another thread that made the same claim. About 5 years ago, I was involved in a high speed police pursuit which ended with my motorcycle flying into the back of a police car - completely destroying both. Needless to say, I was in a lot of trouble. My legal problems notwithstanding, my insurance company paid for all the damage I caused. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Xzanos Curse of Heavenly silence	Posted - 2007.11.26 22:31:00 - [29] Quote: no maby its because I come from the US but I think players should be free to play as they wish, as long as they arnt infringing on other players freedom to play as they wish. maby if the PVP wasnt so roothless and allowed newer players to play in the shallow end instead of getting gang raped there would be more people getting involved with PVP instead of getting soured on it by some of the lowest scum ever to play a game. omg you are a ***** noob. it is easy to avoid pvp combat in low security use you *** map! cross reference average players in system to ship kills so on and so forth. you may have to take longer routes but it will be safer and then you have no reason to *! listen to the vets we know what we are talking about. Mess with the best.....Die like the rest**.
Tawrich Tistrya	Posted - 2007.11.26 23:11:00 - [30] The whole point that the OP ( and countless others ) states is that some things aren't fair , are harsh etc etc. Might i remind you that this is supposed to be a virtual world , not a utopia simulator. Some rules are set to try and block to heavier crimes in the most secure places and punishments set for breaking those , but with the help of the content between your ears ( guessing that even in the OP's case there is a brain there ) you find ways of avoiding the rules and/or the punishment. The whole denial of freedom point made is BS imo as you choose to play the game or not , thats freedom right there , you know what the rules are and yet you still choose to play the game eventhough you say it denies you freedom , why are you choosing for something that denies you freedom unless you already realise that it's not true. In short : Cry me a river and gtfo

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