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0.0 reward is screwed

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Damned Force	Posted - 2007.11.26 10:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Stakhanov Edited by: Stakhanov on 25/11/2007 15:51:36 Originally by: Lord WarATron All my income comes from my high sec empire alt, and it is this that funds my extravagant use of faction modules in pvp. See , that's the problem right here. You are a member of the most powerful alliance in the game , with regional sovereignty over one of the highest rewards 0.0 , enough diplomatic contacts to secure your trading with empire space or other alliances , but you make more by grinding L4s. And you admit that farmer types make more than you - people who don't own any space , don't have any pvp skill or any special connections , no real invested efforts - just the time to grind missions over and over without even needing to pay attention. All CCP needs is the courage to move level 4 missions to lowsec / 0.0 only. Nobody is going to risk officer CNRs there - this will fix the rewards balance. Because money is much less worth than 1 year ago, (for example gist x-type x-large shield booster was around 1 bil, now is around 3 bil) not the lvl4 missions should be nerfed to high sec, but the 0.0 rats should give better reward in loot or in bounty. Or even not the rats, but there should be better reward in 0.0
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Damned Force Because money is much less worth than 1 year ago, (for example gist x-type x-large shield booster was around 1 bil, now is around 3 bil) not the lvl4 missions should be nerfed to high sec, but the 0.0 rats should give better reward in loot or in bounty. Or even not the rats, but there should be better reward in 0.0 Gistii booster price increased bcos CCP removed static complexses thus decreasing their supply, not bcos isk is worth less. And 0.0 rats already have 'better bounty' both in loot and and isk rewards. NPC's worth 1.8 mil in 0.0 are approx 1.2 mil in missions, tank harder and drop crappier loot in missions compared to regular 0.0 versions.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Damned Force Because money is much less worth than 1 year ago, (for example gist x-type x-large shield booster was around 1 bil, now is around 3 bil) not the lvl4 missions should be nerfed to high sec, but the 0.0 rats should give better reward in loot or in bounty. Or even not the rats, but there should be better reward in 0.0 Gistii booster price increased bcos CCP removed static complexses thus decreasing their supply, not bcos isk is worth less. And 0.0 rats already have 'better bounty' both in loot and and isk rewards. NPC's worth 1.8 mil in 0.0 are approx 1.2 mil in missions, tank harder and drop crappier loot in missions compared to regular 0.0 versions. Yes but you don't have to go through every belt trying to find the Battleship spawns. I've NPCed in 0.0 for ages and although the income was good, I made much, much more from doing L4 Missions. Yes the bounties are less, but there's more of them and at much faster intervals, particually if you have multiple agents (I had 3 L4 Q20 agents in the same station - at one point I had 3 'The Blockade' missions active at the same time, which is over 60mil on the spot. I was lucky to make 50mil on most days NPCing in 0.0, barring the time I lived in Stain (which for some reason threw faction and hauler spawns at me like no tomorrow) -----
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Yes but you don't have to go through every belt trying to find the Battleship spawns. I've NPCed in 0.0 for ages and although the income was good, I made much, much more from doing L4 Missions. Yes the bounties are less, but there's more of them and at much faster intervals, particually if you have multiple agents (I had 3 L4 Q20 agents in the same station - at one point I had 3 'The Blockade' missions active at the same time, which is over 60mil on the spot. I was lucky to make 50mil on most days NPCing in 0.0, barring the time I lived in Stain (which for some reason threw faction and hauler spawns at me like no tomorrow) I have found chaining be more effective than just flying from belt to belt hoping to see BS spawns. Altho granted chaining takes considerable time to 'work system in'. It was possible to get around 50 mil/h in i1y in querious a long while ago (it's pretty good 0.0 with reasonable amount of belts and it was not a big problem to find those approx 30 1.5 to 1.8 mil bounty BS's needed to reach that 50 mil/h figure. Peak rewards would be ofc higher, but they kinda average out over time (same as you can get insane isk/h numbers if you assume that you will get worlds collide all day long, but in reality it kinda averages out). In really good days you could get up to 75 mil/h or so (without counting loot) altho it was relatively rare (to get that many 1.5+ Bs spawns in all belts). Main problem with that 'chaining' is that your isk/h plummets to hell as soon as you have to share. Thus population density 0.0 can reliably support is considerably lower (well ok you can mine or umm.. explore nowdays also, but those are also finite resources) while one good agent can support almost unlimited population density (until lag gets too bad). It is not problem of hi sec however but problem of finite resources vs unlimited resources. I'm ofcource also also slightly biased as my main source of income is level 4 missions where it is not big problem getting 50 mil/h also (2 accounts with CNR's so around 25 mil/h per character altho 30 - 40 mil/h per character are also reasonable figures with pimped ride and ability to pay attention to both of those characters reasonably), with peak rewards being up to 100 mil/h (altho that, like faction spawns also kinda averages out) if you get lucky and get 2x worlds collide in row (I do it in 30 minutes without looting with 2 accounts). If you can pick only 'good' missions then you can indeed get also quite high isk/h numbers.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.26 13:05:00 - [35] Edited by: d026 on 26/11/2007 13:07:11 Originally by: Carniflex I have found chaining be more effective than just flying from belt to belt hoping to see BS spawns. From my experience chaining only works in < -0.7 systems. for example in a -0.3 you probably get a tripple 600k bs spawn all 3-4 hours (which is not worth keeping imho) the rest of the time you shoot cruiser spawns. so to get a nice chain going in acceptable time (that means tripple plus 1mil spawns in every belt within 2-3 hours) you need to bee in a extremely low true sec system. now lets see how many such systems with at least enough belts for a steady isk stream we have in geminate: its 3-4 systems which are constantly overfarmed compared to 500 systems over -0.4 which are just crap and not worth npcing there if you are serious about earning isk.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.26 13:17:00 - [36] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 26/11/2007 13:07:11 Originally by: Carniflex I have found chaining be more effective than just flying from belt to belt hoping to see BS spawns. From my experience chaining only works in < -0.7 systems. for example in a -0.3 you probably get a tripple 600k bs spawn all 3-4 hours (which is not worth keeping imho) the rest of the time you shoot cruiser spawns. so to get a nice chain going in acceptable time (that means tripple plus 1mil spawns in every belt within 2-3 hours) you need to bee in a extremely low true sec system. now lets see how many such systems with at least enough belts for a steady isk stream we have in geminate: its 3-4 systems which are constantly overfarmed compared to 500 systems over -0.4 which are just crap and not worth npcing there if you are serious about earning isk. i1y area was indeed very low true sec so that might explain why I had impression it's good tacticks. I do have acsess currently to around -0.2 true sec, but I have not tried chaining there myself to be honest, as I have been kinda tied up in hi sec over the past year babysitting R&D tower for my corp and running level 4 missions to fund my other activities.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.26 13:37:00 - [37] Edited by: d026 on 26/11/2007 13:37:46 Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 26/11/2007 13:07:11 Originally by: Carniflex I have found chaining be more effective than just flying from belt to belt hoping to see BS spawns. From my experience chaining only works in < -0.7 systems. for example in a -0.3 you probably get a tripple 600k bs spawn all 3-4 hours (which is not worth keeping imho) the rest of the time you shoot cruiser spawns. so to get a nice chain going in acceptable time (that means tripple plus 1mil spawns in every belt within 2-3 hours) you need to bee in a extremely low true sec system. now lets see how many such systems with at least enough belts for a steady isk stream we have in geminate: its 3-4 systems which are constantly overfarmed compared to 500 systems over -0.4 which are just crap and not worth npcing there if you are serious about earning isk. i1y area was indeed very low true sec so that might explain why I had impression it's good tacticks. I do have acsess currently to around -0.2 true sec, but I have not tried chaining there myself to be honest, as I have been kinda tied up in hi sec over the past year babysitting R&D tower for my corp and running level 4 missions to fund my other activities. nahh you are right. if you have a good system with nice juicy bs spawns 0.0 ratting (chaining) probably tops lvl4 whoring. but its almost impossible to get such system and its even more impossible to not having to share it with 50 alliance members who also know about the system:)
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:00:00 - [38] There's not much wrong with 0.0. 1) Make far more systems have max negative true security. The ones that don't have a low true sec value are worthless anyway, and this will help with population density. 2) More asteroid belts, both for ratting, and mining. Add some actually valuable ores to mine in 0.0. Super duper veldspar perhaps? As long as the drone regions keep isogen, noxcium, and zydrine prices in the crapper, not much else to do. 3) Agents in outposts. This will also help with population density. Sure ratting in true null sec is more profitable if only one guy is doing it, but missions will at least give multiple players the option to do something.
Minmatar Escapee	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:09:00 - [39] To the OP, it's sad and true. More instant isk from high-sec missioning than low-sec, more isk to be had spamming complexes for billion isk modules (nothing like seeing alts selling 5 or more 1.8 billion isk mods each week to boost your faith in eve), and people running missions like mad in 0.0 for faction implants -snake spammers. Remove all faction/deadspace mods from static complexes, all pirate implants from LP stores, all faction mods from LP stores. Boost the loot tables for 0.0. Maybe CCP could have their economist run a detailed analysis of where all the uber mods are spawning. Some areas just seem a bit more profitable than others.
Cyberus Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:55:00 - [40] i say this : Remote communication
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.26 19:25:00 - [41] Originally by: Minmatar Escapee Remove all faction/deadspace mods from static complexes, all pirate implants from LP stores, all faction mods from LP stores. so signed!
Chi Quan DEFCON. Phoenix Allianz	Posted - 2007.11.26 22:23:00 - [42] you forget something: if you team up, 0.0 is far more profitable than mission running -- Tempus fugit -- quote spiralJunkie: it doesn't matter how you pronounce it, it still shoots you in the face

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