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command ships for mining operations

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Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:37:00 - [1] I got a way to go before I could pilot one, but are they viable? I know the new capital industrial has bonuses that apply to them. But is the time and costs worth it?
Unholy Preacher Trade Consortium Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.25 23:39:00 - [2] hmmmmmm flamebait .... to help you out, no commandships arent worth the time for SOLEY mining ops. if you are that desparate for all three mining links on, just use a regular BC with command modules for the other two. As for the capital industrial, well its a great ship but not meant for low sec, it was intended for the big double 0 mining.
Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.25 23:54:00 - [3] That was the option I was looking at, using one of the battle cruisers since that just means I need to work on my leadership skills to use it. And the price is not quite as high in skills or isk
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.25 23:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Ashen Angel That was the option I was looking at, using one of the battle cruisers since that just means I need to work on my leadership skills to use it. And the price is not quite as high in skills or isk I recommend the Myrmidon or Ferox for this application. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
vostok Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2007.11.26 00:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Unholy Preacher hmmmmmm flamebait .... to help you out, no commandships arent worth the time for SOLEY mining ops. if you are that desparate for all three mining links on, just use a regular BC with command modules for the other two. As for the capital industrial, well its a great ship but not meant for low sec, it was intended for the big double 0 mining. very much agree, i can only really imagine you wanting 1 of the mining laser upgrades active (laser optimization for the faster cycle time) so it seems a battlecruiser would be much easier and cheaper to use. also as far as lowsec mining goes, its not worth it at all, i mean veld is more valuable than most stuff you will find in lowsec now because mineral prices are skewed. meaning mining in lowsec with a rorqual is far from really worth it, i find lowsec has a lot more pirates in it too so i would just avoid that altogether. bonuses for using a command ship would be: - it can tank rats so you never have to worry about agro. - most of them have good cpu so you will probably be able to use a lot of mlu on them of course they have the disadvantage of a smaller cargohold which will fill up painfully fast, especially if you are good enough to be thinking about a command ship for mining links. on the bright side i have heard rumors of a ''mini-rorqual'' capable of empire travel, which i imagine will be just what you are looking for, thus i would keep an eye on the forums, dev blog and test server for news on that. till then i would recommend a battlecruiser. your best options would be the hurricane, harbinger or brutix, harbinger: harbinger: - can have 7 lasers and a mining link - lots of lows for mlu and co-processors - worst starting cpu brutix: - best starting cpu - only 7 high slots - only 5 low slots hurricane: - the happy medium lol - 6 low slots - only 6 turrets - but 25 more starting cpu than the harbinger personally i would do my best with the harbinger =/ Everybody please ignore lyria skydancer, she is a character who does nothing but troll about how amarr sucks and is not worth anybodies time if you ignore her she'll go away, its like magic
Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.26 00:29:00 - [6] Well I am keeping my eye out on the skills for the mini when it gets released. Right now most of what I would use it for is ice mining support (and planed on getting a decent BC anyway) This way I can switch it out for support during mining ops in empire mainly (low sec is another possibility, would have plenty of support before that happens) Mainly looking at the BCs as a low skill means of supporting some newbie miners in empire and defended low sec mining operations. (And can fly minmatar so it's either the hurricane or cyclone for me; unless I train up gal cruisers some along with industrial)
Aeaus The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.26 00:41:00 - [7] The success you get from this directly depends on how many people are with you, and if you'll be required to do any serious tanking. If you're just going solo or with one other person, it probably won't be worth getting a BC with mining links over another coveter or hulk, on the flip side if you have a gang going the output loss you will experience from moving down from mining ship to BC will be greatly outweighed by the additional mining boost your gang will receive. So, to that end... Hurricane Co-Processor II Co-Processor II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II ML-3 Amphilotite Mining Probe Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Cap Recharger II Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.26 01:10:00 - [8] Well more than likely not mining in the ship. Providing npc rat protection, secure cans with haulers on site pulling to protect from ore theft (so Player rats are not a concern) I would likely be fitting all three mining modules on it if possible (should be with my skills and the training I got planned). Playing around in the fitting tools to see about a build I like, including one for sitting in a central spot and tractoring cans for pickup
Aeaus The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.26 01:33:00 - [9] Unless I'm wrong all the other links give you is a capacitor and a range bonus, both are highly unnecessary :)
Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Aeaus Unless I'm wrong all the other links give you is a capacitor and a range bonus, both are highly unnecessary :) The range is iffy, the cap may not be for some of the newer pilots. Most mining ships have cap for it, but not all are going to be pure miners. And the combat ships could use the cap bonus if they are fitting lasers on them. the range bonus is not really needed in ice mining ops, but in ore ining operations using anchored secure canisters for transfer points it will help a bit with working the belt with fewer cans needed (and fewer haulers)

Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:59:00 - [11] if you want to use more than one mindlink then i suggest you use 2 alts with mining battle cruisers, put one in squad and one in wing ------------- fixed for greater eve content
iiOs	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:59:00 - [12] iv been told that titans r nice for mining
Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.26 03:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Lithalnas if you want to use more than one mindlink then i suggest you use 2 alts with mining battle cruisers, put one in squad and one in wing Can fit the trio on a battlecruiser and not have to pay for the other accounts. Plus I plan on getting a battle cruiser anyway for missions once I get some of my other skills up first.
Loike Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.26 05:39:00 - [14] Fit 2x Command Processors to a Brutix or something and whoola, 3 ganglinks.
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.11.26 06:58:00 - [15] a logistics based command ship is bar none the most effective mining tank ingame, run laser optimization and pull amount and the mining drone yield one, and you fulfil the tanking and uber bonus roles of the gang in one ship that can do both easy and all day, then you fill every other slot in your gang with miners and the occasional hauler and you make buku bucks
Balcura	Posted - 2007.11.26 23:42:00 - [16] I run 2 different ships while mining as the gang/fleet cmdr. Skills: Leadership 5 (wing command if you need to), Link spec 5, foreman 5 and director 5 (with the slot 10 implant) The first ship you'll want to look at is the harbinger, 8 highs (1 gang module and 7 mining lasers) but it tanks like crap so have the hulk pilot or another BS type ship tank the spawn. REMEMBER that you need to have 18-19 miner II's active in your gang to break even, that being said a strip miner II (+crystal) = 10.5 lasers. The second fit is for ice mining in 0.0. I fly a vulture with 4 heavy launchers, 1 mining gang module, 1 shield resist gang module and 1 armor resist gang module. I set for a passive omni tank and tank the spawn for the barges/Macks and haulers.
Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.27 02:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Balcura I run 2 different ships while mining as the gang/fleet cmdr. Skills: Leadership 5 (wing command if you need to), Link spec 5, foreman 5 and director 5 (with the slot 10 implant) The first ship you'll want to look at is the harbinger, 8 highs (1 gang module and 7 mining lasers) but it tanks like crap so have the hulk pilot or another BS type ship tank the spawn. REMEMBER that you need to have 18-19 miner II's active in your gang to break even, that being said a strip miner II (+crystal) = 10.5 lasers. The second fit is for ice mining in 0.0. I fly a vulture with 4 heavy launchers, 1 mining gang module, 1 shield resist gang module and 1 armor resist gang module. I set for a passive omni tank and tank the spawn for the barges/Macks and haulers. What I am looking at is a larger fleet option (and training up for wing commander to do it) mainly to assist with large corporate sized mining operations (usually around 15-30 miners involved in various ships) But going to get leadership and one or two points into wing commander and max my mining foreman first. I was looking at the long run with this idea.
Wardo21 The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:58:00 - [18] Whatever race you have cruiser in, keep going in that direction. For a big enough fleet op, go for a fleet command ship (Caldari Vulture). You may want to run the time and range mods at once and won't have to sacrifice the mid slot for a command processor. Bad news is that it's a long train to get into either of the command ships for a race. Regular BC can do it, but do the math before you get one and step out of your mining vessel. Speaking of math, I was thinking backwards and almost recommended the wrong break point for a management vessel... At first I was considering the whole bonus a maxed out mining director can give with modules running (about 30% with the implant and the cycle time reduction gang module). So, doing the math here, remember that the mining foreman skill works without a command ship, and the implant just makes it better. That bonus alone is worth one pilot in a fleet getting a jump clone with the mining foreman implant. The modules at best get a 10% reduction to cycle time (15% with foreman implant) which is nice, but would require 100/15 or 6.6 mining vessels to replace the loss of your barge/exhumer (assuming equal skills). So, unless you're the 8th miner (maybe 7th if there are lots of lasers on the BC/CMD) don't bother with the BC/CMD. If you don't have the implant, then it's only if you're the 11th miner... If you're not in an exhumer yet, and are routinely in a gang of less than 6 miners, go for the exhumer (by which I mean Mackinaw for ice, Hulk for rocks) along with foreman 5 and director 5 for the implant. The command ships may be better suited for their other roles, while running one mining gang mod and say the shield resist and shield boost mods when attacked. (Or some other suitable combo, using the ship bonuses to the other leadership skills.) The Skirmish ones come to mind for faster relocation in a belt, etc. Happy mining, Wardo21
Wardo21 The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.11.27 04:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Shardrael ... run laser optimization and pull amount and the mining drone yield one, ... There are 3 gang mods for mining: Reduce cycle time. Increase range. Reduce cap needs. Pull amount is no longer an option directly, nor is drone yield. Wardo21
Ashen Angel Minmatar The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.11.27 04:12:00 - [20] currently in the hulk in my signature, and got a mackinaw as well. Training up the leadership skills and other skills i need in the long run, before looking at my ships to work towards (looking at increasing my battlecruiser skill and maybe trainign up for a cov-ops for scouting/exploration) So a BC fitted with the modules is the likely choice (did the math on a cyclone and hurricane and it is doable.. barely)

Wardo21 The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.11.27 04:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Ashen Angel What I am looking at is a larger fleet option (and training up for wing commander to do it) mainly to assist with large corporate sized mining operations (usually around 15-30 miners involved in various ships) But going to get leadership and one or two points into wing commander and max my mining foreman first. I was looking at the long run with this idea. I should have actually read the last post before replying. So long as the 15-30 are in ships of at least the capability you are not going to be flying, then the BC/command ship is worth it. Ignore or count some percentage on anything with less yield than whatever it is you are giving up. If you're in a hulk, and the 15-30 are all bantam flying noobs, well... (just an example, I doubt they are all in bantams) With that many miners, you will need wing command as well. Probably to level 2 or 3 at a minimum, plus someone with leadership enough to actually command each squad. I haven't checked to see if that is the actual mechanics or just the "reported" mechanics... I've never been in a gang/fleet bigger than 6 pilots so multiple squads are not something I've seen. The hauler squad commander should be in space all the time, probably with the skirmish skill so the haulers get the bonus for speed. Maybe flying something with a couple tractor beams and bring jet-cans from the miners to the warp in point, er I mean, to the "warp to me point" that's a little removed from the belt itself. No point in the haulers bouncing off rocks trying to warp out. Think in 3 dimensions, above or below the belt is your friend (6-7 km should do it). The other squad commanders need to be in space as well, to pass on the bonus from you the wing/fleet commander. They have to have the leadership skill high enough to command the number of squad members they will have. You can probably get by with 3-4 squad leaders with leadership 4 (8 squad members including themselves) for 24-32 pilots under your command. Wardo21
Wardo21 The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.11.27 04:37:00 - [22] Edited by: Wardo21 on 27/11/2007 04:40:38 Originally by: Ashen Angel currently in the hulk in my signature, and got a mackinaw as well. Training up the leadership skills and other skills i need in the long run, before looking at my ships to work towards (looking at increasing my battlecruiser skill and maybe trainign up for a cov-ops for scouting/exploration) So a BC fitted with the modules is the likely choice (did the math on a cyclone and hurricane and it is doable.. barely) Since White Wolf has joined the fold, I can say I have 5 dots in oblivious... No really, I didn't bother to count the number of turrets in the sig. Come to think of it, I didn't even notice it was a barge/exhumer in the first place. For now, the leadership skills and the implant are probably the fastest way to increase the fleets yield (AKA PROFIT$). Either version of the command ships is a difficult way to go. Other posters have said, and I will second (third/whatever) that the only mod you need to run is the cycle shortening one. The cap is a good idea, but does your hulk get low on cap, mine doesn't. The range one might be nice, but I can clear most empire belts from 2 points along it's curve with the 15km base range. So I only move once while cleaning a belt, and it's usually faster to warp off and back to the other bookmark. One command module should be enough on a BC, if you must have multiples, go for the Fleet Command (the logistics one) as mentioned above. But do that after you can get the implant and the first gang mod running. Your miners will love you, the haulers will hate you... Wardo21 Edit = And another reason not to bother with the range mod... With that many participants, even if it's 1/3rd haulers there are enough miners to cover an empire belt end to end with plenty of overlap so the range mod is not a help here.
Deacon Ix Ascendant Strategies Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.27 09:27:00 - [23] I used a Myrm in 0.0 as a tank running a Gang mod for a long time, my Alt can now fly Fleet Command Ships but that was for PvP gangs, when mining in Lo Sec I Still Use a Myrm as at the end of the day it does the Job and is desposable,


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