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Saraya Velcrow
Exo corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
according to this dutch news article click here Stealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law.
What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??
|

Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
In before move to OOPE |

Jaari Val'Dara
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 19:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Translator isn't working very well, so I'm not sure if it's correct, but as I understand the theft was done via means outside of the game. So it's rather different than the thefts in EVE. |

Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1374
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm sure CCP will take advantage of this to send out claims of theft of THEIR property. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |

Opertone
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.
Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.
Which is it about? |

Jita Alt666
876
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Opertone wrote:as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.
Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.
Which is it about?
The second. They held a 13 year old kid down and beat him till he agreed to log into the game and transfer his stuff over.
OP needs to learn about context. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4729
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Opertone wrote:as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.
Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.
Which is it about? The latter. It was basically a real-world robbery where the thing coerced from the victim just happened to be a virtual item rather than something from the kid's wallet.
Can't say that I'm familiar with the Dutch legal system, but I am having a hard time seeing it extend to losses due to what a game defines as legal gameplay. It would be a bit like prosecuting people for murder when they shoot each other in the face in [generic multiplayer fps]. vOv GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Dowla Daupor
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Opertone wrote:as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.
Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.
Which is it about?
I would guess the latter, though we could possibly use this against CCP because it presumes virtual items we bought are our property. So the next step is pooling our resources, forming a credit union and pushing CCP out, then selling EVE for profit. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3040
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
good luck flying lawers to duschland.
|

Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
59
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ive been waiting for something like this to start happening and setting precedence in legal matters. What intrigues me is that Eve is built on piracy and theft in terms of its motto and playstyle which is very different to what 1st world nations and legalism uses on a daily basis. So the legal wrangling issues stemming from this game will be truly unique. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |

Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
552
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Saraya Velcrow wrote:according to this dutch news article click hereStealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law. What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ?? This only applies to theft outside of the game.
IE, if you hacked in order to steal the items.
Stealing via intended game mechanics is still perfectly legal... |

Richard Kyanka
Something More Awful
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:good luck flying lawers to duschland. I know a few virtual lawyers. Any help? |

Famble
Three's a Crowd
275
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Opertone wrote:as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.
Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.
Which is it about? The second. They held a 13 year old kid down and beat him till he agreed to log into the game and transfer his stuff over. OP needs to learn about context.
/Thread
If anyone ever looks at you and says, "Hold my beer, watch this,"-á you're probably going to want to pay attention. |

Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1030
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Richard Kyanka wrote:Nova Fox wrote:good luck flying lawers to duschland. I know a few virtual lawyers. Any help?
What do you mean? This thread will soon be full of em. |

Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
87
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:Translator isn't working very well, so I'm not sure if it's correct, but as I understand the theft was done via means outside of the game. So it's rather different than the thefts in EVE. You're correct. The ruling was about two boys using physical violence IRL to force a third boy to log into Runescape and hand over some Items to them in-game. As for EvE, I don't believe CCP would condone using RL violence to force other players to hand over their goods in the EvE universe. SUSPENSION AND BAN POLICYsection 3: Harassment.
The way thievery is made possible in this game, as a choice a player can make, is good. Using RL violence to get in-game items is not. In my book, the Dutch supreme court had it right .
This time...... Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
|

Spacing Cowboy
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
28
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ugh, bad , bad interpertation..
A guy was robbed by "real life" violence, and forced to log into his game account ( runescape or something ) and, by use of fisical ( real world ) force, forced to give up the goods "ingame"
Thats all..
Basicly, the cubcake's didn't take his lunch money but some stuff out of his game
( so this has nothing to do with our robbing/pillage streaks in this fine eve-world ) |

Jita Alt666
876
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Op's interpretation would mean that all ingame wars were subject to the geneva convention. |

E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
202
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
We don't own our characters or ISK....... CCP does Ergo you can't steal from me. You steal from my character that CCP owns to your character that CCP owns that CCP lets us use.
Need more-ádecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |

Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
314
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Dutch are only good for high quality drugs and ****. nothing else has any value coming out of the Netherlands I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |

Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
308
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Saraya Velcrow wrote:What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??
You guess wrong bro. Everything in the game is by default the property of CCP thanks to the EULA you all clicked throguh without reading, so no-one can "steal" anything. |

Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
82
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Come back, you've got my tankard! in other MMO's stupid people are annoying. In EVE they are a valuable resource /facebrick for those times when /facepalm just isn't enough
|

Skywalker
MAFIA Pirate Coalition
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Oh ****, means i got years of prison ahead of me. |

Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Who's going to sue first for emotional distress??
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |

Shizuken
Venerated Stars
58
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Op's interpretation would mean that all ingame wars were subject to the geneva convention.
One simple thing for the OP to remember when interpreting law, as I learned in law school, is that if you have two possible interpretations, one of which leads to absurdity and the other to something more reasonable, then the path taken by the courts will probably be the latter, not the former...
|

Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1037
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 21:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:Op's interpretation would mean that all ingame wars were subject to the geneva convention. One simple thing for the OP to remember when interpreting law, as I learned in law school, is that if you have two possible interpretations, one of which leads to absurdity and the other to something more reasonable, then the path taken by the courts will probably be the latter, not the former...
But not always. Absurdity in the court is not unheard of. |

Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
370
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
**** this country |

Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
191
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Saraya Velcrow wrote:according to this dutch news article click hereStealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law. What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??
CCP owns all the virtual items in EVE, and we agree to that when we click "accept".
So, I suppose CCP could sue someone for theft of their imaginary stuffs, but since we don't own it, we can't.
:)
|

Freyya
Thunderbears Jovian Empire
37
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:The Dutch are only good for high quality drugs and ****. nothing else has any value coming out of the Netherlands
Id say thats 2 of the best things you can be good for really ohh and dont forget some of the big advances in both medical and IT related fields which make your health and every dat life that much better. CCP Eris was Dutch iirc. Dunno of shes still with ccp though. Havent heard of her in a long time.
Dutch and proud of it!  |

Nephilius
Grey Legionaires
307
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
I guess there is precedent in Holland then. But that won't affect anyone else throughout the rest of the world, unless someone can absolutely convince a judge to view said Dutch precedent as a valid reason to further their own case. To stand before a man at an inquisition, knowing that he will rejoice when we die, knowing that he will commit us to the stake and its horrors without a moment's hesitation or remorse if we do not satisfy him, is not an experience much less cruel because our inquisitor does not whip us or rack us or shout at us. |

Ai Shun
214
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 00:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sansha's Nation vs Saraya Velcrow. Followed a few weeks later by the new emboldened Guristas vs Saraya Velcrow. There is a lot of ISK begging that they'll be wanting back, you thief!  |

Krios Ahzek
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
434
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 00:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
holy **** I'm deleting my skyrim thief save
Posting time! Come on, grab your friends. We'll go to very distant lands. |

Rene Fullchest
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
This has come up before. I am surprised that so many seem to think this is something new.
The EULA clearly states that all items IN the game belong to them, not to the players. Any money a player pays to CCP is ONLY for access to their game servers.
Given CCP's own terms of use, and despite whatever ruling some Dutch court makes, it does not apply to the vast majority of Eve players. It sets no precedents whatsoever.
As many have said, the 'crime' appears to have been a real world crime, not an in-game crime. |

Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
112
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
Quote:THE HAGUE - The grabbing of a virtual amulet and mask in an online computer is stolen. Virtual assets have value because much time and effort has gone to collect the goods. - Close approximation of the translation of the ruling, for your amusement. TIIP: The Incredible Invisible Poster |

Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
90
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 01:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Maybe they were prosecuted for robbery rather than theft.
Robbery and Theft are not quite the same thing. Robbery is taking something using force, violence, threats etc. The victim does not need to be the owner of the goods in question. If you mug a postman and steal the mail it's still considered robbery.
Edit:
From this article it seems they used a knife. They were lucky to get off with community service - in some jurisdictions aggravated robbery carries a life sentence. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
307
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 02:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gawwwwd. What a BS thread. In the US this might kick up several of the charges to Felonies due to accessing systems outside of the state as a component of the crime, but aside from several obvious criminal charges the attackers in that article would face, that kid would be in a very actionable position for a litany of civil suits against them. (Read: the victim would make the attackers bleed money out of their a**es for life) You don't need a special law for that.
n-b-4 troll thread moved to OOPE... All GëíGêçGëí Ships | GëíGêçGëí - sñÜpüÅpü«sÑçsªÖpü¬péópéñpâåpâá | <-- Links to ShowInfo in-game
FX7 - No Tax... No Rules... No Problem |

Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
423
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 03:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
The property stolen isn't the reason for the charge here, it's the means used to procure it.
If the kid was held to ransom in game through game mechanics there's no issue.
This has now become my worst example of metagaming though, WoW's internet sabotage group from 2006 have finally been beaten. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |

NaturalBeast
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 07:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
If we are talking about the MSNBC story, then its pretty obvious. This more about the way the items were obtained outside of game.
Quoted from the article: "It said he and another youth beat and kicked the boy and threatened him with a knife until he logged into "RuneScape" and dropped the objects in 2007."
Frankly I am a bit surprised the kid only got 144 hours of Community service for pulling a knife. Maybe the judge wasn't a fan of Runescape.
|

Samantha Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 09:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
Finally, risk vs reward for hi-sec ganking has been fixed.  |

fgft Athonille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 12:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
being a handsome lawyer i can assure you that the violence that occured is the reason for the proceedings, not the ivrtual items |

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
379
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Not having read the article I'll guess that this is about increasing penalties for real world crimes without directly doing so. *shrugs* We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
|

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
2350
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Just wait until some court deem it illegal to kill someone in-game...
Altho don't worry, The Calm Veldspar Retirement Home can accommodate all you pirates and evildoers [:D]
/c
|
|

Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
122
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 14:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Stealing in game items from players is part of the game and therefore cant be stealing - you are roleplaying a theif if you steal.
That and the fact the lisence agreement says that all components of the game including any and all items are the propety of CCP.
You pay to login, people dont quit and demand their DB info be Zipped up and emailed to them :P |

Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 14:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
I can't believe it's actually against the law in the Netherlands to break into someone's house, tie them up, beat them up, and force them to do something against their own will. The nerve of some countries! Haven't they heard of Freedom of Mayhem? It's in our Lebbenty-Sebbenth Amendment. " Congress shall not abridge any citizen's right to wreak havok upon any fellow citizen(s)."
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |

Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
325
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there.
Now for a game like EVE Online, we won't have to worry about virtual thefts being prosecuted, because virtual thefts are a part of the game itself - similar to how you can't prosecute someone for theft when they capture your queen in a game of chess.
But what this might mean is that CCP might have a certain degree of responsibility to make sure we have access to our virtual items. |

Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there.
Now for a game like EVE Online, we won't have to worry about virtual thefts being prosecuted, because virtual thefts are a part of the game itself - similar to how you can't prosecute someone for theft when they capture your queen in a game of chess.
But what this might mean is that CCP might have a certain degree of responsibility to make sure we have access to our virtual items.
It's amazing how many EULA cultists in this thread are missing this point and failing to see that the ruling does actually represent a threat to their idol. |

Wacktopia
Noir.
156
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Saraya Velcrow wrote:according to this dutch news article click hereStealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law. What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??
I think you missed the subtlety of the 'means'...
Stealing of virtual items through game-related means (e.g an in game scam) IS NOT THEFT
Stealing of virtual items through non-game-related means (e.g hacking someone's password) IS THEFT
Quote:Suspect and co-defendant forced the victim to violence and threats of violence to login to his account in the online game Runescape and virtual objects to leave (dropping) in the virtual game environment.
From here. (NOTE: You will need to un-screw the & bits from the URL. 
Just in case any bears are creaming their knickers thinking that getting freighter-ganked is somehow illegal IRL. Apparently we're getting censored now. |

Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Deliberately misleading thread title is go! |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4746
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there. Well, it could make RMT legal, for oneGǪ 
Basically, the precedent set simply means that, even though the items stolen don't exist, it's still (armed?) robbery rather than simple assault. There's probably some legal tongue-twisting that can be made to retain the status quo without actually diminishing the precedent: the company still owns the virtual items as the EULA claims, but the right to access and use said items is what's being robbedGǪ or some such. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Taedrin wrote:What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there. Well, it could make RMT legal, for oneGǪ  Basically, the precedent set simply means that, even though the items stolen don't exist, it's still (armed?) robbery rather than simple assault. There's probably some legal tongue-twisting that can be made to retain the status quo without actually diminishing the precedent: the company still owns the virtual items as the EULA claims, but the right to access and use said items is what's being robbedGǪ or some such.
The judgement is quite explicit that the goods belong to the individual, as they have to for the relevant section of the legal code to apply. Status as a good that can be owned is apparently determined by de facto control, with the court locating ownership with the individual and not with the company that owns Runescape. But most significant is that they found virtual items to be goods with value and that the value derives from the time and effort spent acquiring them. If that analysis rolls out beyond Holland then it could cause a serious headache for all MMO companies. |

Zeomebuch Nova
Metalworks
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Where is your god... ehem... your EULA now! |

Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Article 310 of the Criminal Code 'Any person who removes any good belonging wholly or partially to any other person with the intention of unlawfully appropriating it is guilty of theft and liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding four years or a fourth category fine.'
The judgement found that a crime had been committed under this law, so a) the items are goods, b) they belonged in whole or part to the victim, c) they were unlwafully appropriated. I guess some mileage could be extracted from if it was claimed that the goods only belonged to the victim in part but nothing in the judgement summary gives any impression that the court proceeded under an assumption other than of whole ownership. |

000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
First i LOLLED!
But then when i read it... oh brother... they beat the kid and forced him to log on and drop off his stuff so another char could take it..
Now i agree this is RL violence so it's only fair the guy got his stuff back... but now another hypothetical case...
A lil kid is threatened ingame by someone that if he doesn't eject from his ship, he will find him in RL and kill him.
Now i know most of u think, OMG just petition/ignore/kill him ingame/whatever.
But we all know some people are more vulnerable then others so i do think this could happen.
I do hope though this isn't a covert way to get ccp to ban canflipping though!  |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4746
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
HmmGǪ as a point of comparison, what happens if someone, say, car-jacks a leased car (the closest real-good equivalent I could think of)? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
000Hunter000 wrote:
A lil kid is threatened ingame by someone that if he doesn't eject from his ship, he will find him in RL and kill him.
Now i know most of u think, OMG just petition/ignore/kill him ingame/whatever.
RL threats in game are automatically a ban-able offense. |

000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
I know, but if u watch newsitems and stuff, i just think depending on teh situation and person it could be possible... Even in eve...  |

Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
25
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Pretty interesting stuff, I can see a rl assault and battery charge, but the conviction was for thievery, which was not the rl crime but the virtual crime. It does set an interesting precedent. Of course if you aren't in the Netherlands, I don't suppose it matters at all. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
40
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:good luck flying lawers to duschland. luftwaffe will shoot them down if the flak doesn't get them :) |

Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
407
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Since you signed the EULA before entering the game you agree that nothing in game belongs to you but CCP. So who are you stealing from or what got stolen from who?
You have to cut the ops team some slack, trolling the player base with made up downtime estimates is the only fun they get around here.-á(CCP Nullarbor) |

Ehn Roh
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
Saraya Velcrow wrote:according to this dutch news article click hereStealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law. What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??
It's only "stealing" in real life when it's not a game mechanic and/or real life crimes are not involved (as in this case). There have been similar cases from, surprisingly, China. You're being silly and you know it. |

Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
328
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 23:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tippia wrote:HmmGǪ as a point of comparison, what happens if someone, say, car-jacks a leased car (the closest real-good equivalent I could think of)?
I'm just an internet lawyer, but something completely different would probably happen.
1) Thief is guilty of Grand Theft Auto, the car s/he stole was not his/her own 2) "Victim" does not actually own the car, s/he is still bound by the terms of his contract to return the car to the leaser. 3) Fortunately, as part of the terms of the contract, the "victim"s insurance pays for the theft of the car. The leaser gets their car back, and the victim's insurance probably goes up because they made a claim.
I'm a little surprised that this didn't fall under the category of extortion instead of robbery. But this isn't the United States we're talking about, so who knows. If it was extortion, then the implied ownership of virtual property would be a non-issue, since extortion (in the US at least) only requires that the victim be coerced into performing some sort of unpleasant action. |

Nariya Kentaya
Celestial Ascension
112
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:The Dutch are only good for high quality drugs and ****. nothing else has any value coming out of the Netherlands so that 4 letter word thats censored isnt a 3 letter word, so im assuming your not referencing the red-light district... red light district being the best place to hang out IN EUROPE. (or is amsterdam not dutch? i forget... amsterdam is oen of those few small countries in europa that i never do more then visit for a night... or two.) |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
391
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:good luck flying lawers to duschland.
im pretty sure the dutch hail from the Netherlands
VOTE SKIPPERMONKEY FOR CSM - TERRIBAD AT EVE BUT GREAT AT FORUMS |

Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
59
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Nova Fox wrote:good luck flying lawers to duschland. im pretty sure the dutch hail from the Netherlands Thats a fallacious lie!!! NO WAY!!! Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |

Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 03:23:00 -
[64] - Quote
When I move to the Netherlands I'll worry about all this. Where I come from it's still illegal to spit on the deck of a steamboat.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3051
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 19:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
I dont know who screwed up the world map but I am sure some countries are not self named as the map says.
IE. Nippon
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destiny2
Right Ascension
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 20:26:00 -
[66] - Quote
Okay stealing virtual stuff in a game is against the law. lets go with this. but not all eve players are DUTCH! so meaning didly squat can be done to them. |

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Villore Accords
65
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 20:29:00 -
[67] - Quote
I'd like the Dutch court to please hear my case because I repeatedly get murdered in Eve and the murderers keep getting away with it. |

MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
114
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 20:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
destiny2 wrote:Okay stealing virtual stuff in a game is against the law. lets go with this. but not all eve players are DUTCH! so meaning didly squat can be done to them.
But if the crime was committed via dutch-owned and operated internet infrastructure would you be in trouble? "Sir, I need you to open that packet so I can see the data." I know I left a battleship in this station. Wait, you can put ships in Station Containers? ****! I just trashed them. |
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