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Pastora
Pastora

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Posted - 2003.06.10 12:09:00 - [1]

There is one simple thing the developers need to implement to limit pirate activities within empire space: Prevent pirates from docking at stations within empire space. If a pirate kills a lawful citizen of a certain empire (herein, a lawful citizen is a person that has positive standing towards empire in question, or something close to it), the pirate's standing towards given empire is severely lowered, and at some point goes negative. As soon as someone's personal standing towards an empire becomes 0 or some relatively close to 0 negative value, this person can't dock at stations within the borders of given empire. This will significantly affect pirates' possibility to "exploit" the current system, i.e. docking at stations in the very same system they slaughter people at.

It can be adjusted a little bit in the following way. As far as I know, the lowest possible standing value is -10.0. All systems have security status in range between 0.0 and 1.0. The simple formulae to find out if a pirate can dock in current system may be the following, it's applied only if personal standing is negative and if current system's security status is above 0.0 (note! we can't use personal security status here, as it is too easy to increase by killing NPC pirates, while personal standing towards certain empire or corporation tends to grow much slower):

D = 5 - 10 * (current system security status) + (personal negative standing towards given empire)

Thus, if D is below 0 then this person can't dock at stations in current system. E.g. any person whose personal standing towards given empire is negative won't be able to dock at any station in systems with security rating over 0.5 within empire space, and any person whose personal standing is lower than -4.0, won't be able to dock at any stations at all within any system of the empire space, i.e. all systems with security status above 0.0. Most dedicated pirates will certainly have personal rating below -4.0, and they will have three choices:

1. Stay out of the empire space, or at least go to 0.0 systems to be able to dock to stations there: to repair their ships, renew their clones or insurances (these two things are certainly to be managed by PC or NPC pirate nations or corporations, as it's plainly stupid when a pirate can get clone or insurance within empire space, and certainly any clone or insurance contracts must cost much more to people with negative security rating), etc.
2. Get in contact with members of other corporations or with freelancers (who is able to dock at nearby stations), who will provide pirates with necessary ammunition and other stuff. I.e. get in contact with smugglers.
3. Build own station within empire space, which will require constant protection etc., as other players (and probably NPC navy forces) will try to destroy these stations, as they are a threat to peace within empire space.

All this above was in application to a single person. If the person is a member of corporation, then the following rule is used, we just add one more step before taking into account person's personal standing: 1) we do the same calculations for value D based on person's corporation standing towards given empire, then, if this value is not negative for current system, 2) we take into account personal standing towards given empire. This is to exclude possibility to have "good" and "bad" guys in the same corp, i.e. if your corporate standing is low enough, you won't be able to dock at stations in current system no matter how high your personal standing is (even if it is positive, as if you mess with "bad" guys officially be ready to suffer consequences). E.g. if corp has corporate standing towards given empire below -4.0, then none of its members will be able to dock at any station within empire space no matter how high their personal standing is. Another example, corporate standing is -2.0, and current system's security status is 0.2, person's personal standing is -3.0, we get D = 5 - 10 * 0.2 + (-2.0) = 1 for current system based on corporate standing -- as it's positive, then there is a possibility for this person to be able to dock at stations in current system, if person's personal standing is high enough: D = 5 - 10 * 0.3 + (-2.0) = 0, which is not negative, thus this person can dock at stations in current system.

Why on earth something similar wasn't introduced in the very game design document I don't know...

P.S. Does any of the developers read this board?! As it seems now, none of them does. Let us know if you do, because otherwise there is no point for us to write anything here...
_______________________________________________
If ifs and ands were pots and pans,
I would grow mushrooms in my pants.
Pastora
Pastora
Russian SOBR
Red Alliance

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Posted - 2003.06.10 12:09:00 - [2]

There is one simple thing the developers need to implement to limit pirate activities within empire space: Prevent pirates from docking at stations within empire space. If a pirate kills a lawful citizen of a certain empire (herein, a lawful citizen is a person that has positive standing towards empire in question, or something close to it), the pirate's standing towards given empire is severely lowered, and at some point goes negative. As soon as someone's personal standing towards an empire becomes 0 or some relatively close to 0 negative value, this person can't dock at stations within the borders of given empire. This will significantly affect pirates' possibility to "exploit" the current system, i.e. docking at stations in the very same system they slaughter people at.

It can be adjusted a little bit in the following way. As far as I know, the lowest possible standing value is -10.0. All systems have security status in range between 0.0 and 1.0. The simple formulae to find out if a pirate can dock in current system may be the following, it's applied only if personal standing is negative and if current system's security status is above 0.0 (note! we can't use personal security status here, as it is too easy to increase by killing NPC pirates, while personal standing towards certain empire or corporation tends to grow much slower):

D = 5 - 10 * (current system security status) + (personal negative standing towards given empire)

Thus, if D is below 0 then this person can't dock at stations in current system. E.g. any person whose personal standing towards given empire is negative won't be able to dock at any station in systems with security rating over 0.5 within empire space, and any person whose personal standing is lower than -4.0, won't be able to dock at any stations at all within any system of the empire space, i.e. all systems with security status above 0.0. Most dedicated pirates will certainly have personal rating below -4.0, and they will have three choices:

1. Stay out of the empire space, or at least go to 0.0 systems to be able to dock to stations there: to repair their ships, renew their clones or insurances (these two things are certainly to be managed by PC or NPC pirate nations or corporations, as it's plainly stupid when a pirate can get clone or insurance within empire space, and certainly any clone or insurance contracts must cost much more to people with negative security rating), etc.
2. Get in contact with members of other corporations or with freelancers (who is able to dock at nearby stations), who will provide pirates with necessary ammunition and other stuff. I.e. get in contact with smugglers.
3. Build own station within empire space, which will require constant protection etc., as other players (and probably NPC navy forces) will try to destroy these stations, as they are a threat to peace within empire space.

All this above was in application to a single person. If the person is a member of corporation, then the following rule is used, we just add one more step before taking into account person's personal standing: 1) we do the same calculations for value D based on person's corporation standing towards given empire, then, if this value is not negative for current system, 2) we take into account personal standing towards given empire. This is to exclude possibility to have "good" and "bad" guys in the same corp, i.e. if your corporate standing is low enough, you won't be able to dock at stations in current system no matter how high your personal standing is (even if it is positive, as if you mess with "bad" guys officially be ready to suffer consequences). E.g. if corp has corporate standing towards given empire below -4.0, then none of its members will be able to dock at any station within empire space no matter how high their personal standing is. Another example, corporate standing is -2.0, and current system's security status is 0.2, person's personal standing is -3.0, we get D = 5 - 10 * 0.2 + (-2.0) = 1 for current system based on corporate standing -- as it's positive, then there is a possibility for this person to be able to dock at stations in current system, if person's personal standing is high enough: D = 5 - 10 * 0.3 + (-2.0) = 0, which is not negative, thus this person can dock at stations in current system.

Why on earth something similar wasn't introduced in the very game design document I don't know...

P.S. Does any of the developers read this board?! As it seems now, none of them does. Let us know if you do, because otherwise there is no point for us to write anything here...
_______________________________________________
If ifs and ands were pots and pans,
I would grow mushrooms in my pants.
0o0Preatorian0o0
0o0Preatorian0o0
mUfFiN fAcToRy

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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:03:00 - [3]

Dude, STFU. . You got 0k Warps. sniping is useless, carebaers got it all. STOP F***ING NERFING PIRATES! Go back and stick your mining lasers on a rock and STFU!
YARRRR!!
Prescience
Prescience
Gallente
XERCORE

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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:19:00 - [4]

Easy, this is an IDEAS forum, not a 'this is whats going to happen' if its a bad idea and you dont like it, dont flame like that. No need, just put your ideas in a valid, coherant manner with no 'stfu noob' or that.
_____________________________________

WHO said EVE had to be FAIR??

Varis
Varis
Jericho Fraction

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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:33:00 - [5]

Actually, this is pretty cool.

its not just pirates who would hurt - but a lot of mission runners too :)

I know i would barely be able to dock in Amarr stations :)
James Duar
James Duar
Merch Industrial

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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:40:00 - [6]

It would actually be really great if the pirate factions in 0.0 were expanded upon so they were more like an Empire that was just, well, criminal - and conversely, that pirates of Empire could actually be driven out of Empire but find refuge with the outlaws.

So pirate factions gain gate guns and other such things, and have their belts attacked by rather vicious CONCORD/Empire rats, who have some bounty paid by the pirate faction but are compensated for their relative difficulty by dropping really great loot.
Joshua Foiritain
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate

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Posted - 2006.12.08 12:05:00 - [7]

As long as pirate corps lock out anyone with poor standings to them itll be fine with me Smile
-----

[Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Reggie Stoneloader
Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier

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Posted - 2006.12.08 12:23:00 - [8]

Originally by: James Duar
It would actually be really great if the pirate factions in 0.0 were expanded upon so they were more like an Empire that was just, well, criminal - and conversely, that pirates of Empire could actually be driven out of Empire but find refuge with the outlaws.
I think this will sort of happen with factional warfare. Caldari mission runners are going to have trouble operating in Minmatar and Gallente space, and likewise with other factions, due to standings. We'll see more geographic isolation and I think it'll do good things for the game's dynamic.

Doing something similar with the NPC pirate factions runs into the problem we have out in 0.0 now: You get really crappy standings with the pirate agents in your region because they're also the rats in the belts, and they attack you regardless of your standings.

So even if you run missions all the time for Sansha's agents, the fact that you and your corp are whacking Sansha's battlships to the tune of 500 a day in the asteroid belts means that you'll never have really high standings, and even if you wait until you've got +9.0 standings before wandering into the belts, the random spawns still bust you up. It's silly.

WIth the introduction of factional warfare, I'd like to see some unrest among the pirate factions, so the belt spawns in Sanshas territory are Angels, and vice versa. I'm guesing that there are tensions between blood raider, Guristas and Serpentis, too, to some extent , so an analogous situation could arise there.
--------------
Civis Ascendant Sum
SpawnSupreme
SpawnSupreme

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Posted - 2006.12.08 13:16:00 - [9]

i agree something could happen to people who mission its to easy to make friends with all factions. but im not a pirate and i dont believe the should be limited unless its through mission reasond not just cuz a red skull and cross bones targets you in high sec to get your addrenalin pumping. i think concord need to lighten up on the destruction they seem to much like vigalanti rather than police. i think there should be a dueling option sanctiond by concord long as both parties agree they can duel.

Joshua Foiritain
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate

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Posted - 2006.12.08 13:23:00 - [10]

Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
It's silly.

Its not silly, kill pirate factions and they hate you. Kill Empire factions they hate you.
On top of that, its quite possible to NPC and Run missions for a pirate faction.
-----

[Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Sessho Seki
Sessho Seki

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Posted - 2006.12.08 15:48:00 - [11]

Edited by: Sessho Seki on 08/12/2006 15:48:51
Originally by: 0o0Preatorian0o0
Dude, STFU. . You got 0k Warps. sniping is useless, carebaers got it all. STOP F***ING NERFING PIRATES! Go back and stick your mining lasers on a rock and STFU!
YARRRR!!


just a hair upset that you actually have to do something now to fight? (fight: Read as sit and wait for shuttles and industrials to happen through then gank them)

poor baby has to go to all that effort to deploy a bubble, OHZ NOES!!!
   
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