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Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:40:00 - [151] Originally by: Angela Toren Stop comparing WOW to EVE, they are two completely different games in two completely different mmo genres This constant wow bashing is getting pathetic, grow up dunno about you but we can compare two different things if we want. grow up
Tyranis Bolke	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:42:00 - [152] BTW, one tagent about Eve numbers vs WoW numbers. How many Eve players have more then one account? I have two, I know a good few people that have two or three active accounts. It almost seems the norm for experienced players to have multipal accounts. How many WoW players have more then one active account? I'd put money on it being not many, due to the fact that you are allowed 50 charcters per account. Now, my point isn't that WoW is better then Eve or anything like that, just that it's very hard to compare Eve growth to WoW growth because of Eve's multi-account culture. _______________________________________ Comfortably Numb
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:45:00 - [153] Originally by: DirtyHarry You cannot compare these 2 games, they are completely different, the only similarity is that they are MMOG's. why not ? I can compare an apple to a ford mondeo if i want, the way you say makes it look like the only things that can be compared have to be similar or the same.
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:52:00 - [154] U cannot compare eve with wow. It will be realy interesting if ambulation arrives and the chance for perhasp one day ( if this is ever planned) PVE on stations include PVP. WOW is an Game based on Item runs. Pvp isnt realy interesting. U can compare The Pvp modus ( adrenalin level which u have when u fight againsta nother) to guild wars. Eve sits on a Throne which have a "lower in numbers" fan cummunity. It will grow step by step, lower then others. Eve is quality on a high level which needs time. most ppls want quality on a simple level which needs no time. "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi " EVE FAN since 2003
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:54:00 - [155] Originally by: Macmuelli U cannot compare eve with wow. yes you can. i can compare anything, with something else whenever i want.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:06:00 - [156] Originally by: Macmuelli U cannot compare eve with wow. LIEK OMG YES U CN!!!1ONE -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:16:00 - [157] i have played wow for a coupla months back earlier this year . all i can say is the novelty wore off pretty quick ( well not that fast being undead is cool ) but i have tried to recruit wow players into eve and frequently they are interested but fearful because of the fact " you can lose your elite items " " pvp at any time " " learning all over again " wow certainly is interesting but it's vanilla appealing to the masses but honestly bland and repetitive . it's a pedestrian entry level mmo made for the masses . eve is far more complex , difficult , harsh and skill oriented . any competent pilot with even 5 months training focused in one type of ship or tactic can be lethal when properly used . eve players get branded as "elitist" . and it's true we are elitists . but not in a negative way i find eve players generally want a more complex and difficult game . the eve community is a minority not because of the "shortcommings" of the game but because of the difficulty of the game . eve intimidates the average gamer . signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) why dont you just tell me ?
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:20:00 - [158] Originally by: Xaen Compared to Wow, EVE is better in many regards. In others it compares less favorably. The UI for one. Yes the two things wow did great imo is the customizable UI (though it opened up for a high degree of automation) and the PVE raids. But i dont think its possible to make something similar to wows pve raids in EVE. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Pitt Bull Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:38:00 - [159] Originally by: Orivanna I think it is safe to say that, as far as Blizzard is concerned, the only CCP that they know of is the China Communist Party, and that Eve is a character from the Bible. i 'd
shortattenionsp	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:56:00 - [160] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Stuff. You're right, but you lack understanding of what wow has done to the market and the games industry. I work for a major game developer, in fact if you have been a gamer for the past few years, you have almost certainly played a game created by the company I work for. Without a doubt, World of Warcraft is the biggest thing to happen in the games industry in the last 5 years. 5 years ago, if you'd have told someone in the industry that a developer would manage to create a game that is capable of convincing casual gamers to pay monthly for a game (a concept alien to even a lot of hardcore gamers today, still) they'd have laughed in your face. Wow is an asounding achievement of development, it is almost perfectly crafted for its purpose, and has gained popularity utterly unthinkable a few years ago. Wow has mass appeal to almost all demographics of gamers, because of its graphics, setting, user friendliness, depth, engine, and most importantly, polish. I won't go into that further, because theres an entire thesis or disertation down that road. Wow however has completely changed what is expected of an mmo by the market. Companies that would have been happy releasing mmo's in their current state are putting release dates further and further back, how Blizzard has handled Wow has made it no longer acceptable that mmo's are release in a semi-beta state with lots of fixes planned in coming patches. Patch days are expected to occur smoothly and with minimal fuss. Additional high quality new content (not in the same way eves expansions have been though) is expected to be released for free, on a constant basis. A huge amount of money is flowing into the sector for mmo devlopment pretty much purely because of wows success. Basically it has re-written the rulebook on mmo games and development for the industry. People may deride wow here, but they're idiots that done understand markets, economics, game development, and computer games as a medium in general. The irony in the fact people hate Wow because of its percieved immature playerbase, but post idiotic "go back to wow" comments should not go without mention. If you hate a computer game, or the people playing it, because of its success, playerbase, whatever, you're a moronic little nerd, no two ways about it. (I'm not talking about the guy whos post I quoted here btw).
Pitt Bull Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:06:00 - [161] I don't know a single person IRL that plays WoW, something I'm actually proud to be able to say. Most of my friends play(ed) CS and have now moved onto TF2/Crysis/UT3. You simply can't compare the combat value of an FPS game versus an MMO. Its possible for the n00bys to pwn vets in FPS games, something that rarely ever happens in MMOs. FPS games are inherently balanced so that combat is fair most of the time. That, and there's no monthly fees unless you want to run your own server, which is a major plus in my books.
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:21:00 - [162] I really think the polish is debatable, though they do generally deploy patches smoothly with a few hiccups, but the launch for wow was as buggy as most any other mmmo. They made wow idiot proof period and based it on a franchise that had a huge following, and there was no pain involved you had to be a anti-sadist to get wow, since the early mmos were all very sadist based, with steep death penalties, long and slow level grinds, talking years to hit max level. It was an entirely new take on the mmo thing with quick leveling no real death penalty, no pain for dumb play so it was a "casual" friendly game. You could play wow in short bursts and level up in a month or three or you could power level in 2 or 3 weeks to level 60. So there was no l33tness to max level like in other games where it was a grindfest and it took dedication long hours and patience to level in the old school mmos. WoW moved the bar from levels to gear basically, if you were level 60 and running around in your t1 armor you were a noob and treated as such. If you were level 60 in old mmos you were looked upon as "wow grats your leveling nicely" or the random comment from people you dont know on congrats on your level. Levels meant prestige in the old mmos and WoW did away with that and said we are going to move the prestige to gear.
Kalen Vox Veyr	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:30:00 - [163] Hmm... -----
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:35:00 - [164] Originally by: Kalen Vox Hmm... Win - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:55:00 - [165] Originally by: shortattenionsp Originally by: Paulo Damarr Stuff. You're right, but you lack understanding of what wow has done to the market and the games industry. I work for a major game developer, in fact if you have been a gamer for the past few years, you have almost certainly played a game created by the company I work for. Without a doubt, World of Warcraft is the biggest thing to happen in the games industry in the last 5 years. 5 years ago, if you'd have told someone in the industry that a developer would manage to create a game that is capable of convincing casual gamers to pay monthly for a game (a concept alien to even a lot of hardcore gamers today, still) they'd have laughed in your face. Wow is an asounding achievement of development, it is almost perfectly crafted for its purpose, and has gained popularity utterly unthinkable a few years ago. Wow has mass appeal to almost all demographics of gamers, because of its graphics, setting, user friendliness, depth, engine, and most importantly, polish. I won't go into that further, because theres an entire thesis or disertation down that road. Wow however has completely changed what is expected of an mmo by the market. Companies that would have been happy releasing mmo's in their current state are putting release dates further and further back, how Blizzard has handled Wow has made it no longer acceptable that mmo's are release in a semi-beta state with lots of fixes planned in coming patches. Patch days are expected to occur smoothly and with minimal fuss. Additional high quality new content (not in the same way eves expansions have been though) is expected to be released for free, on a constant basis. A huge amount of money is flowing into the sector for mmo devlopment pretty much purely because of wows success. Basically it has re-written the rulebook on mmo games and development for the industry. People may deride wow here, but they're idiots that done understand markets, economics, game development, and computer games as a medium in general. The irony in the fact people hate Wow because of its percieved immature playerbase, but post idiotic "go back to wow" comments should not go without mention. If you hate a computer game, or the people playing it, because of its success, playerbase, whatever, you're a moronic little nerd, no two ways about it. (I'm not talking about the guy whos post I quoted here btw). I entirely agree that WoW has done good for the game industry, and MMO's as a whole, in terms of introducing casual gamers to friendly videogames AND raise the bar of quality for releases and management (Oldschool Anarchy Online player here) BUT, WoW is only really a 1.5 generation MMOG. Its pretty bland in its execution. Raids are sooo 1997. The PvP is infantile, and one upped by games years older. If anything, publishers are really going to push for WoW clones with a quirk...and not strive for radically new departures from the genre, as EVE and several other MMOs were working on immedetly before WoW's release. ----------------- Friends Forever
Erichk Knaar Caldari Maelstrom Crew Mournival Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:01:00 - [166] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 30/11/2007 16:41:26 WoW may be more popular but its mass market mainstream polished mediocrity. Its like blue denim jeans, there are probably more pairs of jeans owned/sold in the world than any other types of trousers does this mean jeans are the best? they are hard wearing and tough but you wont win any fashion parades and they wont get you into any exclusive night clubs/restaurants. Personally, I prefer the McDonalds vs. those $50 kobe burgers you get in Vegas. Both burgers, but those who get it know why one is not even in the same league as the other. Blizzard has changed the industry, as the other dev guy pointed out, and now all we get is an endless stream of wanna-wows as every company making MMOs tries to get even a fraction of Blizzards userbase. Eve is niche, will probably always be niche, but in an industry where mediocrity and FOTM clones of game concepts are all that seems to get funding, CCP have done an awesome job of sticking to their guns in making and maintaining a game that has lasting appeal and a truly deep level of player created content. Also, at the ignorant trolls who think the eve servers suck and that Blizzard could make Wow one world if it wasn't for graphics cards. You obviously know nothing about clusters and the complexity involved in doing what is being done here.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:01:00 - [167] Originally by: shortattenionsp post The standards WOW sets are definitely good for the MMO genre as shoddy games stand out like a sore thumb and encourage developers to do more, the Asian grind fests are a perfect example of this and no one in their right minds would pay for them that's why they are f2p. Ultimately better standards are to the benefit of all MMO players as the genre is still lacking compared to other genres and console gaming, MMOs all suffer with dated graphics and limited game play and simplistic physics but now thankfully this is changing. I have to disagree about WOW re writing the rule book, because it didn't it certainly reinforced the existing template as WOW took the existing hack and slash dungeon running models and gave them mass appeal and arguably the sharded server system is WOWs greatest strength just as EVEs single server is its strength, You can find a WOW server that suits your play style or preferred social outlook or nationality so in effect as MMOs are defined by their players and community WOW is many games at once. And yes hating a person because he plays a certain game is dumb to say the least. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:02:00 - [168] Originally by: shortattenionsp post The standards WOW sets are definitely good for the MMO genre as shoddy games stand out like a sore thumb and encourage developers to do more, the Asian grind fests are a perfect example of this and no one in their right minds would pay for them that's why they are f2p. Ultimately better standards are to the benefit of all MMO players as the genre is still lacking compared to other genres and console gaming, MMOs all suffer with dated graphics and limited game play and simplistic physics but now thankfully this is changing. I have to disagree about WOW re writing the rule book, because it didn't it certainly reinforced the existing template as WOW took the existing hack and slash dungeon running models and gave them mass appeal and arguably the sharded server system is WOWs greatest strength just as EVEs single server is its strength, You can find a WOW server that suits your play style or preferred social outlook or nationality so in effect as MMOs are defined by their players and community WOW is many games at once. And yes hating a person because he plays a certain game is dumb to say the least. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Biscuts	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:18:00 - [169] Yes the 300,000 subscribers grossing 6,000,000 dollars in just monthly fees is pathetic. They midaswell throw this game away. It's embarrassing... why do companies even bother to produce these type of failures. They shouldn't have even bothered to make that movie "The Beach" for instance it didn't make nearly as much money as "The Titanic" ***** **s if you ask me. Why don't they just throw EVE away WoW has many more subscribers therefor WoW is the best and EVE is a ** game.
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:24:00 - [170] Originally by: shortattenionsp Originally by: Paulo Damarr Stuff. good stuff ... The irony in the fact people hate Wow because of its percieved immature playerbase, but post idiotic "go back to wow" comments should not go without mention. If you hate a computer game, or the people playing it, because of its success, playerbase, whatever, you're a moronic little nerd, no two ways about it. (I'm not talking about the guy whos post I quoted here btw). i have to say though the fisrt part of your post is generally correct on all points your final closing is rather lacking in undestanding most of the posts saying go back to wow generally are in reference to posts complaining about the difficulty of eve or non-consensual pvp or the destruction of assets . these responses though often comming in a very sharp manner are simply stating in classic a classic eve-o way " maybe this isn't the game for u " . i dont think you really have a grip on what people are saying . Eve players don't hate wow they just view wow as a better environment for certain players and play styles . I mean let's be honest Wow is pretty simple as far as gameplay goes but it's really just an online theme park with classic mmorpg elements . it's not really new or shocking . Eve is a world , an economy , a single community . signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) why dont you just tell me ?
Hermosa Diosas The-Secret-Service Retribution.	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:38:00 - [171] Originally by: Mecinia Lua It is the holidays, Blizzard normally runs advertisements for WoW around the holidays, it is part of their marketing strategy. I really doubt they are up on what's going on in EVE. Blizzard are not even interested in Eve its not even the same genre, and im sorry but a few million subs pretty much say WoW is good. and you know what it is. If you dont like WoW cos youve got to be one of the eve gang then fine but it still is a damn good MMO and will be for a long time
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:46:00 - [172] Originally by: Steve Hawkings Originally by: Macmuelli U cannot compare eve with wow. yes you can. i can compare anything, with something else whenever i want. Ok. I can also " Dance naked Tzirtaki on the Blue Lagoon" if i want. So Yes if u want to compare everything with anything u can. Both games are diffrent universes... "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi " EVE FAN since 2003

ISD Santiago Cortes Caldari ISD Interstellar Correspondents	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:59:00 - [173] Originally by: Kalen Vox Hmm... And people complain that the Amarr has no role Elsewhere, let's not get sidetracked by who can compare what to whom otherwise I'll be comparing this to this thread. forum rules \| mailto:[email protected]

Alan Bell Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:30:00 - [174] I wonder how many ppl in wow are macro miners... Baka!
Majestik Gallente Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:32:00 - [175] Edited by: Majestik on 30/11/2007 20:35:16 Never understood the constant fuss and comparison between 2 different games. Never played WOW but watch a few movie such as LOTR. I enjoy Eve....love space operas,B5,BG,DS9,Firefly,etc....read many books of fleet battles,trade ships,exploration,etc.. Just about everyone I know are into some type of online game and a little more than half pay per month. Most are over 35yrs. We never argue about anything....we just enjoy our games. I am surprised that new game "Jumpgate Evolution" isn't discussed here. I don't know much about it. I don't care about subscription numbers of any game......especially if the company is not listed on the stock exchange. Maybe if I was an employee of these 2 companies I guess I could argue all day on here. Just glad I bought tons of ERTS @.60 and GME @ $6 many years ago. Wish I could invest a little in CCP since the company is so young. But I think I will go to Hong Kong and do some gadget shopping...guy some fresh green tea and get back ready to enjoy on the 5th. The skill system is fine to me. That "wow deflector shield" statement was pretty good. I enjoy Eve for the journey as well..... See you all in Space.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:35:00 - [176] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas Originally by: Mecinia Lua It is the holidays, Blizzard normally runs advertisements for WoW around the holidays, it is part of their marketing strategy. I really doubt they are up on what's going on in EVE. Blizzard are not even interested in Eve its not even the same genre, and im sorry but a few million subs pretty much say WoW is good. and you know what it is. If you dont like WoW cos youve got to be one of the eve gang then fine but it still is a damn good MMO and will be for a long time Right. Quantity implies quality, is that what you're saying? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kayna Eelai Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:39:00 - [177] Originally by: Malcanis Right. Quantity implies quality, is that what you're saying? are you saying that 8.5M people would pay and play the game if it was bad, huh? fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Abye Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:47:00 - [178] Originally by: Kayna Eelai are you saying that 8.5M people would pay and play the game if it was bad, huh? People eat more ***** !! Billions of flies can't be wrong ! \o/ WoW gained so much players because it is the first to hit the mainstream, before that MMORPGs was mostly for nerds. ___ CCP Garthagk: "And that is why GMs aren't DEVs"
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:03:00 - [179] Originally by: Alan Bell I wonder how many ppl in wow are macro miners... Thousends Farmers getiing golds and sell it via Ebay Which getting banned then too. larger numbers = more macroes But Blizzard make good money cos ppls had to buy the game + expansion + a monthly fee before. Who cares if 300 k accounts getting banned when 400 k come new( most of them are macores with a new buyed game)?? ( Blizzardreallifemacroplayerfarming) A compare to eve: ( looks at mrs. Hawkins) Download free <- adventage Expansions free<- big adventage Monthly fee a damm sweet nice grafik incoming with trinity + improvements A universe(playground with possibiltys) which can be endless ( biggest adventage) Something which can make nervous. The item run on other games will getting boring realy fast. "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi " EVE FAN since 2003
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:11:00 - [180] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Malcanis Right. Quantity implies quality, is that what you're saying? are you saying that 8.5M people would pay and play the game if it was bad, huh? I bet that over 75% of those playing WoW have IQs less than a hundred. I imagine that if you compare those numbers to EVE, that percentage would be very different. So yes, wow is more popular among dumb people. Let's not forget that over 40% of US citizens believe in the literal truth of the bible. Popularity does not equate to quality or intelligence. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare

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