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![Bilanto Gatejumper Bilanto Gatejumper](https://images.evetech.net/characters/628804577/portrait?size=64)
Bilanto Gatejumper
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.28 21:01:00 -
[1]
This is a whine thread. If you dont like whining then stop reading now and go somewhere else.
And this is not a "If I don't have it my way I cancle" thread. As CCP can confirm I canceled my two accounts prior to writing this.
This thread is written so I hope that CCP sometime in the future can have other players to have some fun.
First: I don't play this for PvP. I play(ed) EVE because I like the game mechanic. I like the way that the skills system are, all the stuff you can have and explore and so on.
Second: I play games to have fun. I don't play them because I must. I don't play them because I don't have anything else to spend my time on. I play them because I like to have fun. My way of having fun is not the same way as your way of having fun. Live with it.
Then my whining: I made a mistake... I thought and lost my raven. Then I bought a new one, I actually managed to get hold of all the stuff that was left in dead space and I replaced the rest. It was mostly fitted with T2 stuff. Some other, but mostly T2.
I recovered MOST of the faction and I was working my way back when I entered a new mission. There was not to many, but some frigs. I knew one of the frig would trigger the next wave so I was careful, but still I deployed my drones (How could I know) After killing there main target one when over and shot at the trigger. Only one shot and the next wave came. No big deal. Then for some reason I managed to trigger the next two. Ok. I jump out, recharge and get back. Then I get the message.... AGAIN. "You can not warp because of....." There was now way for me to find out who it was. I think I killed all the frigs, but I still could not warp. So... I lost my raven again... Second i one week.
Again i lost faction (for giving up the mission) and so on. And here comes the basic: This is not my way of fun.
So. To all of you that just like to throw in "Live with it.", "Carebare, it's EvE", "Go back to wow" and so on before this thread get closed/deleted: I don't care and I probably want see them. I give my view of fun and thats it.
I can easy manage a loss in a game like eve if I am to blame, but sitting 3-4 minutes and see the ship being eaten to dust while you frenetic spam the warp button to get the f... out of there is not my way of fun.
So after being away for a long time and finally set up a long time strategy for what I should do and how I should develop I end up going away instead.
I am sad because I like so much of this game, but I just don't feel like doing a lot for nothing.
Thanks for your attention.
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![Battleclash Battleclash](https://images.evetech.net/characters/497207981/portrait?size=64)
Battleclash
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Posted - 2007.11.28 21:10:00 -
[2]
Ahem.
Can I have your stuff?
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
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![Vodka Neat Vodka Neat](https://images.evetech.net/characters/162135402/portrait?size=64)
Vodka Neat
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.11.28 21:11:00 -
[3]
Can I have your stuff?
No really
Why are you still reading? Its over. Continue to the next post.
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![Angel DeMorphis Angel DeMorphis](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1543334254/portrait?size=64)
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.28 21:26:00 -
[4]
Well, since you said you can manage a loss in Eve if you are to blame, then consider this: You are to blame.
You should have realized as you worked your way through Lvl 2s and 3s how drones act and what they can do. Twice I did the Damsel in Distress Lvl 3 mission and let my drones out during the first wave, twice the drones went off and attacked Kruul after their first primary target and I had to spend the mission warping in and out to finish it. I learned then not to let the drones out when I know there's a ship that would trigger the next wave.
You said you knew there's a ship that could trigger the next wave, but you let your drones out anyways. It is your fault; you have no one to blame but you.
Oh, but there it is. You were away from Eve for a time and came back. You no longer knew how to play Eve so you were doing missions that were out of your league. This you also cannot blame CCP for. When coming back after so long, you should have tried Lvl 1s in a frigate again, Lvl 2s in a Cruiser, Lvl 3s in a Battlecruiser. Make your mistakes there, where you can still warp out. Learn how to play Eve again, then play your Lvl 4s. You missions didn't have an Easy Button? Too bad. You didn't know how to learn from your mistakes? Too bad. STFU and GTFO.
By the way, if you had waited for just a little bit longer, drones are going to be getting a better interface next week. You should be able to do things like make them focus on one target at a time or make them only attack those ships you target. It would take only a little testing to confirm that they work as designed, and if they don't you can petition it to get your stuff back. So guess what, they were fixing this "problem" (this problem you yourself could have prevented).
But you canceled, too bad. Can I have your stuff?
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![Ulstan Ulstan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/173268048/portrait?size=64)
Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.28 21:46:00 -
[5]
Posts like this are useful to balance out the "Level 4 missions have no risk" whining that we see often.
Sure, this guy didn't know *exactly* what to do, but bear in mind, the *VAST MAJORITY* of the Eve playerbase will not know exactly what to do. He had a pretty good idea of what to do (don't shoot the trigger, frigates are the ones who scramble) which I consider to be fairly representative of large swathes of the playerbase, and still managed to lose two ravens in one week.
I'm not saying level 4 missions should be easier, but the people saying they need to be made even harder because they are risk free need to wake up and look at the facts.
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![Nahno Nahno](https://images.evetech.net/characters/420672984/portrait?size=64)
Nahno
Roast Beef Double Swiss Transport
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Posted - 2007.11.28 21:54:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nahno on 28/11/2007 21:54:46 The "Can I have your stuff" phrase actually means "Give your stuff to Nahno".
Me. Stuff. Give.
edit: +Puedo tener su materia?
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![Lytia Lytia](https://images.evetech.net/characters/112542517/portrait?size=64)
Lytia
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Posted - 2007.11.28 22:44:00 -
[7]
So hey, ya I feel ya on loosing the Raven, believe me I got*****y and made the same noob mistake only a week ago. But hey I ate it up and shat it out like everyone else.
Of course it does help to have some connections... Speaking of which can I have your stuff?
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![The Bullet The Bullet](https://images.evetech.net/characters/628651896/portrait?size=64)
The Bullet
Minmatar Suicidal Conviction
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Posted - 2007.11.29 00:19:00 -
[8]
Can't handle level 4 missions in your specifically designed mission running battleship?
Can't read the RED text in the mission briefing warning you of the existence of scrambling frigs?
E P I C F A I L
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![KISOGOKU KISOGOKU](https://images.evetech.net/characters/679428983/portrait?size=64)
KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2007.11.29 00:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: KISOGOKU on 29/11/2007 00:27:56 Im sorry for your loss ,i can imagine how hard is replacing a bs to a new player/someone has limited time but you choosen wrong answer short term ,try a permaboost x-large setup (there are some cheap setups with cap power relays) or fit an cap booster with alot cap booster 800s long term ,invest to gist x-large I hope these can fix your problem. Btw drones are headache at missions with trigger system.same happened me once at Guristas extravaganza before changed ,drones triggered all waves ![Embarassed](/images/icon_redface.gif)
Originally by: Bilanto Gatejumper
So after being away for a long time and finally set up a long time strategy for what I should do and how I should develop I end up going away instead.
I am sad because I like so much of this game, but I just don't feel like doing a lot for nothing.
Thanks for your attention.
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![Kaya Divine Kaya Divine](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1731307367/portrait?size=64)
Kaya Divine
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.29 01:27:00 -
[10]
I don`t really know how to answer on this. But: I CAN fly a BS I CAN buy and equip Hyperion and start lvl 3 mission I also have ability to use lvl 4 agents...and why I am still in myrm on lvl 2 missions...Simply I can`t afford to lose a BS insured or not, I`m missing lots of crucial skills.
In theory I could complete most lvl3 missions...but to warp out and back, to go deep into armor and risk a lot its not my cup of tea. In month or two, I will try.
For record this is my main and my first character. (21days old) I learned when I try to destroy ships on Recon lvl2 while in thorax...that when you are stretched (like me with skills) do only basic, don`t risk. I returned after that to lvl1 for few days while I learned some skills... Now I don`t have problems with any lvl2 missions.
Time and persistence are two most important things here. If you have them, there will be NO limit for you in this game.
Don`t rush.
This post was written by a newb in npc corp..its useless but who cares.
I consulted moralists to learn how to appear, philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die. |
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![Hozac Hozac](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1048536494/portrait?size=64)
Hozac
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Posted - 2007.11.29 04:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Angel DeMorphis Well, since you said you can manage a loss in Eve if you are to blame, then consider this: You are to blame.
This
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![Carniflex Carniflex](https://images.evetech.net/characters/660812563/portrait?size=64)
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.29 07:32:00 -
[12]
Have fun whereever you end. Note however that level 4 missions are not 'risk free' so losses are expected when you are 'learning the ropes'. I covered my own butcher bill also when I was starting doing them regardless of being careful and reading up before jumping in.
Some hints that might be useful to avoid common mistakes in some missions 1) Large shield booster is not enough, they can kill you even over T2 XL going full speed over 4x rat specific T2 hardeners (my first lesson, I went down in under 1 minute and was scrambled by 6 frigates) 2) Drones. If there is trigger in room keep them in really really short leash or dont use them at all, especially useful in missions with 'buddy agro'. 'Buddy agro' is situation where any other entity than the one trigger has agressed will cause full room agression when he attacks that trigger, that includes gang mates btw. Examples are Worlds Collide (serpentis/gurista) second stage angel spy frigates, Enemies Abound 1 of 5 initial scrambling frigates. 3) Experience. You will need actual experience in missions to do them with low enough risk to use equipment you cant afford. Reading up before mission is useful and having expencive setup and a lot of SP help also but there is no substitute to real experience. It's same for whole EVE btw. Experience beats high SP number and expencive equipment. Get that experience in affordable ships. 4) Don't fly what you cant afford. That does not mean that you should use only equipment in hi sec missions you can replace often. It means that don't use equipment that would kill your whole last year profit when it goes poof. Be aware of cost effectivness. T2 fitted Raven IS actually affordable. Well unless you are losing them every 10th mission, in whitch case you propably are doing something wrong or lack SP critically in some relevant field.
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![Bilanto Gatejumper Bilanto Gatejumper](https://images.evetech.net/characters/628804577/portrait?size=64)
Bilanto Gatejumper
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.29 07:58:00 -
[13]
Its not about money. I got mostly T2 parts and I could probably destroy 10-15 more ships before running out of founds.
Its not about time. I got enought time to play to be able to get back whats lost.
Its not about risk. I knew that it is a risk and I am willing to accept that I can loose ship and equiptment due to errors in my own way of playing.
But it is about fun And my kind of fun is not to running around doing lvl 3 mission on easy mode giving rewards that sucks compared to what I can have in a lvl 4 mission.
Why should I rig it with T2, faction and so on if I am to run lvl 3 missions? I need goals. I need to have something to work against. So when I get killed in a lvl 4 mission in what I think is a very frustrating way (Those missions are designed so that if you do a mistake (Like trigger to many waves) you will get killed. This means that you must abount the mission with means a huge loss in faction.)
Its hard to put a finger on what I feel is really the problem, but I think it is a combination of a lot. I feel like I do a lot for nothing. There is something in here that makes my loose the fun part.
About red text on missions. No, I did not see it. I always read the mission text before entering. Looking at rewards, trying to search it up on google. Not once did I see any warning. I only understood what was happening when I tried to warp out.
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![Newbear Newbear](https://images.evetech.net/characters/766542131/portrait?size=64)
Newbear
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Posted - 2007.11.29 08:09:00 -
[14]
Having ships explode under you is kinda fun. I regularly loose ships to afk, ninja looting other ppl's gate camps, and other carebear related activities.
Part of the fun in having stuff is knowing that it will all explode and turn to dust one day. EvE is all about suffering and our ability to cope with loss. ![ugh](/images/icon_ugh.gif)
Click here for my High Security POS Service
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![Andrue Andrue](https://images.evetech.net/characters/857703633/portrait?size=64)
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.29 09:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Andrue on 29/11/2007 10:03:38
Quote: This thread is written so I hope that CCP sometime in the future can have other players to have some fun.
Eve already has over 200,000 active accounts.
Quote: First: I don't play this for PvP.
Then you're playing the wrong game. If you've been playing long enough to fly a Raven then you've been playing long enough to know that Eve is a PvP game at all levels. If you bought the char then you're pretty dumb for shelling out money without finding out about the game first.
But then again..what does PvP have to do with your post? You lost your ship in PvE. That's the same kind of encounter that you find in every other MMORPG and even solo game on the market.
Quote: Second: I play games to have fun. I don't play them because I must. I don't play them because I don't have anything else to spend my time on.
So do most other people. Eve appeals to a certain kind of person. It would appear you aren't that kind of person.
Quote: Then my whining: I made a mistake... I thought and lost my raven.
[snip]
when I entered a new mission. There was not to many, but some frigs. I knew one of the frig would trigger the next wave so I was careful, but still I deployed my drones (How could I know) After killing there main target one when over and shot at the trigger. Only one shot and the next wave came.
So you were incompetent and foolhardy - that's a dangerous combination. Why didn't you seek information about the mission? You've finally found this section of the official forums and look how busy it is! There are several third party web sites that describe missions in detail. If you aren't ready to run level 4 missions find some friends to run them with. If you don't have any friends then join a player corp.
Quote: Again i lost faction (for giving up the mission) and so on. And here comes the basic: This is not my way of fun.
Obviously not. Your idea of fun is to avoid other people, avoid challenges, avoid risks and avoid consequences. Do that and you achieve nothing. Where's the pride in saying "I completed a mission that I couldn't lose?" Compare it to "I worked for six months to get in that ship and despite a terrible struggle I managed to complete that mission"
Quote: So. To all of you [snip] I don't care and I probably want see them. I give my view of fun and thats it.
It seems like Eve is not the game for you but then it was never designed to appeal to everyone. Those of us who've been playing it for a while like it the way it is and see no need to destroy it just to appeal to the mass market.
Quote: I can easy manage a loss in a game like eve if I am to blame,
But you were to blame. You played the wrong kind of game, failed to utilise the resources available to you and lost. Then you came onto the game forums and whined like a little girl.
Why don't you find a decent corporation and give it another go. Come find my corporation and we will hold your hand and teach you how to play the game properly. Within a couple of weeks you will be laughing at level 4 missions and hopefully this thread. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
![Carniflex Carniflex](https://images.evetech.net/characters/660812563/portrait?size=64)
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.29 10:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bilanto Gatejumper
But it is about fun And my kind of fun is not to running around doing lvl 3 mission on easy mode giving rewards that sucks compared to what I can have in a lvl 4 mission.
Theres the problem. Missions are not fun, they are there so you can grind isk to fund 'fun' activities. Missions are too predictable to be fun, on the other hand that predictability will let you use expencive setups with considerably lower risk than in unpredictable enviroments (or at least enviroments you are not familiar with, like some tougher exploration complexses) thus increasing your effectivity and isk/h output. Level 4 missions are only about isk/h.
Now the fun part of the game .. well it depends. If you are not into 'pewpew' PvP then there is some other pvp options also available in EVE, playing the market or offering services cheaper than your competition or something else like that. Altho for to enjoy 'solo' play .. it takes a bit other kind of player who just plays for 'pimp' factor of his solo pwnmobile. Unfortunately those players will get screwed over sooner than later when they lose their pwnmobile to either suicide gank (officer fitted CNR's are actually worth suicide ganking btw) or to overconfidence in some random mission. For me the 'fun' is currently collecting BPO's. I have the soul of a hamster and I cant help it . Whatever your definition of fun is if it is not blowing up your opposition try to break it down into smaller bits. Big long term goals are cool, but you will get bored if you don't get cookie every now and then for your efforts.
And ofc as pointed out there is possibility that EVE is not really that kind of game that would appeal you. Don't trash your character tho when you quit, just mothball him, write up and store somewhere safe your username and password and when you find out after half year break that 'competition' in this sector sucks you can still come back without needing to start over.
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![Angel DeMorphis Angel DeMorphis](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1543334254/portrait?size=64)
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.29 15:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bilanto Gatejumper
But it is about fun And my kind of fun is not to running around doing lvl 3 mission on easy mode giving rewards that sucks compared to what I can have in a lvl 4 mission.
Why should I rig it with T2, faction and so on if I am to run lvl 3 missions? I need goals. I need to have something to work against. So when I get killed in a lvl 4 mission in what I think is a very frustrating way (Those missions are designed so that if you do a mistake (Like trigger to many waves) you will get killed. This means that you must abount the mission with means a huge loss in faction.)
Its hard to put a finger on what I feel is really the problem, but I think it is a combination of a lot. I feel like I do a lot for nothing. There is something in here that makes my loose the fun part.
Then don't do Lvl 3 missions... longer than you need to to learn how to play. Or if you find them "on easy mode" do them in a smaller ship, until you're ready to take the risk of a Lvl 4 mission.
What? Did I say a Lvl 4 mission had a risk? Yes, as you have found out. Guess what, Eve is all about making mistakes and taking the consequences. You do what you can to minimize the mistakes you make, but you will make them. We all do. And yes, Lvl 4 missions were designed so that if you make a bad mistake, you will get killed. Why should you be able to make bad mistakes and still get away with all your pay and standings? It's called Eve, not Hello Kitty Online. Usually people say that to carebears who lose their ships in PvP; this is the first time I've seen it told to a carebear who lost his ship carebearing.
Who told you to rig with T2, faction and so on to run Lvl 3 missions? I didn't see that in here. The point is only, if you are incompetent enough to consistently make the same mistakes losing your ship in a Lvl 4 mission, you shouldn't be flying them. Leave the Lvl 4s to those that are willing to take the time to learn how to fly them; those that are willing to accept the risk to get the higher pay.
If Eve is not for you, it's not for you. If Eve is for you, you will learn how to adapt, learn what you did wrong, learn how to avoid that mistake in the future.
About the "something in here that makes you lose the fun part", I heard that from a corp mate of mine recently, as well. They were doing the same thing over and over cause it made them ISK, though they were finding it wasn't particularly fun. If doing missions over and over for you isn't becoming fun, then don't. Find something else to do. Become a Blockade Running trader through low and null sec. Become a pirate, if that's your thing, or a mercenary, if you like fighting and want to be a "good guy".
Just don't whine about losing your Raven by making a mistake in a Lvl 4 mission. It's your mistake. Deal with it, or GTFO. (Oh wait, you did. )
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![Gridwalker Gridwalker](https://images.evetech.net/characters/250114370/portrait?size=64)
Gridwalker
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.29 15:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bilanto Gatejumper
Its not about risk. I knew that it is a risk and I am willing to accept that I can loose ship and equiptment due to errors in my own way of playing.
Yet you come in here and tell us that, due to your errors in our own way of playing, that you aren't having fun and have quit.
Quote:
But it is about fun And my kind of fun is not to running around doing lvl 3 mission on easy mode giving rewards that sucks compared to what I can have in a lvl 4 mission.
Your idea of fun is therefore to have zero risk for a ton of reward? You want the reward, you need to take the risk.
With all due respect, I hope and pray that EVE doesn't become the game you think it should be. EVE isn't for sore losers.
-Grid
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![Anaalys Fluuterby Anaalys Fluuterby](https://images.evetech.net/characters/214057291/portrait?size=64)
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.29 16:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kaya Divine
This post was written by a newb in npc corp..its useless but who cares.
lol, probably the best advise that can be given to anyone. Know your limits and don't push them too hard....
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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![Soraya Silvermoon Soraya Silvermoon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/617385851/portrait?size=64)
Soraya Silvermoon
Langoliers
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Posted - 2007.11.29 17:18:00 -
[20]
I find theese players a bit strange.. having a break from eve (I`ve been away for a year because I didnt agree with the lag and the broken game mechanics when it comes to conquering space)I tried some other mmo. I allso did a lot of whining on that and left...
Seeing EVE devs stating things I agrtee with in patch notes n dev blogs and changes are implemented that helps fix what I meant was broken. I now come back to eve.
However I didnt find any other fun mmo and I thought Tabula rasa would be fun so I bought it and played for a while. But upon Canceling the subscription after a week I wrote this when they asked me for the reason for quitting:
"To low death penalty boores me in the long run. My items hold no value when I cant loose em."
I`m happy EVE is an option for us players who cant stand low death penalty and even I tire of it no other game can compete with eve.
Looking forward to Try Age of conan though but I suspect it might be booring too...
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![Xaen Xaen](https://images.evetech.net/characters/922855529/portrait?size=64)
Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: The Bullet Can't handle level 4 missions in your specifically designed mission running battleship?
Can't read the RED text in the mission briefing warning you of the existence of scrambling frigs?
E P I C F A I L
Most missions do not include this text regardless of the presence of scramble frigs.
E P I C F A I L -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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![Angel DeMorphis Angel DeMorphis](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1543334254/portrait?size=64)
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: The Bullet Can't handle level 4 missions in your specifically designed mission running battleship?
Can't read the RED text in the mission briefing warning you of the existence of scrambling frigs?
E P I C F A I L
Most missions do not include this text regardless of the presence of scramble frigs.
E P I C F A I L
And.... do they even need to? That's something you should know already by the time you get to Lvl 4 missions.
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![ISD Santiago Cortes ISD Santiago Cortes](https://images.evetech.net/characters/584758757/portrait?size=64)
ISD Santiago Cortes
Caldari ISD Interstellar Correspondents
![](/images/icon_isd.gif)
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:03:00 -
[23]
*Locked*
Lacks constructive posting.
forum rules | mailto:[email protected] |
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