I am now working in Ston's place in rescue operations for awhile. I decided to make a direct appeal to experienced pilots to provide information on which systems slave traders commonly jettison their slaves. I started a separate thread to reach as many pilots as possible. I hope we will get some response and hopefully gain information that we do not already have.

I believe that even the "Faithful" Amarr should want to help in this endeavor. I don't think it is inconsistent with their beliefs. So, please give us assistance if you can. Thanks

MORAL DILEMMA

Tonight, Manwe rescued 39 former slaves from death in the cold of space. In the process, he also detained 5 slavers (slave traders). While patrolling Jita for the Clone Body Return service, I asked for advice on the Summit. Mr. Thassalonia recommended that the slave traders should be brought to the MIO for trial and appropriate justice or to the Matrai security officials for the same. We appreciate Mr.Thessalonia's advice. We never expected this to happen so we never prepared for it. We would appreciate more advice and information.

Here is our concern. The Disciples of Ston are against capital punishment and cannot hand anyone over if that is even on the table. Our problem is, we don't know what the punishments are in either Amarr Justice or Minmatar Justice. Sometimes, the Amarr punishments include multi-generational slavery. We are opposed to this. We have heard that the Minmatar may execute them. We are opposed to this as well. What to do?

We will speak to the former slaves that were rescued and who were the ones really responsible for the capture of the slave traders. (See Manwe's account). Their input is important as well. Pilots who have insight on this are asked to please help us out with sound advice. This presses another issue for us as well; that is the need to include some rudimentary justice and law enforcement mechanisms in our matriculation communities even if they are temporary. We believe that there are those among the rescued capable of putting a plan together.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

When I first joined the Disciples of Ston, I found the life of non-violent confrontation to be simple and in many ways, worry free. Flying an unarmed rookie ship by myself, engaging other pilots in subjects pertaining to peace; it was a simple idealistic approach. We didn't worry about ISK because we needed so little of it. We didn't worry about harming anyone, because we were unarmed and our ships carried no crews. We were often attacked, destroyed, and sometimes podded, but that was just us. it didn't matter.

But... When you begin to focus on the ideals of peace, freedom, and generosity, you do not stay self-focused for long. We began to look hard not only at helping the capsuleer but humanity as a whole. To make the story short, that brings us to the present. The slave rescue mission has required ISK to fund. We depend more now on Edaine and what he makes and donates. We fly ships with crews to protect, albeit without weapons. We train skills (something we didn't originally need to do). We break the law by smuggling former slaves into free space so they can have a semblance of a life. We are preparing to enter dangerous parts of the Cluster to confront violence and greed in those places.

In all this, we bring living human crews with us. There are lives we are now responsible for beside our own. This has been a huge change and not what I originally saw in being a Disciples of Ston. No, I haven't changed my mind about what we are doing or my part in it. However, it is not carefree any longer.

At times like these, I am grateful that I can do my part in this mission, but I also feel removed. Yes, back at the station, I can mingle with the people and do my part, but when I am in the egg, there is no personal connection, at least not like my crew has. I am wired to the ship, enclosed in my pod.

Some capsuleers thrive in this sense of being aloof. I do not. It is the worst part about being who we are. I am going to do everything I can to stay connected to the "real humans" out there, lest I lose my "human" soul.

I've had enough frankly...

For the last few months I tried to be nice and ignore this little.... propaganda **** pot but I had it up to here.

No capsulleer in their right or mind regardless of how amoral they are would leave anyone in space
Because in this "UNIVERSE" and I stress that in ways I hope to God are abundantly clear no one would ever do that.

Clearly you do not live in the same cluster as I.

I feel sorry for you and your so-called disciples. You boast of rescuing slaves, liberating them and releasing them....you do not know what damage you are doing. Most slaves are not capable to interact with the galactic society at large, many cannot even make decisions for themselves apart form the very basics - bordering more on the animal survival instinct. To let these people loose into society is tantamount to releasing zoo animals back into the wild, ensuring that they wil be slaughtered by their new environment shortly after the post your self-gratifying congratulations message.

I will admit that some of my brethren have not always treated their slaves as human beings, and some worse than I would treat mindless animals... Do not assume you know all of us Amarrians.

It is the Disciple kind of thing to forgive others, even for what appears to be willful ignorance. You obviously haven't looked at the whole of what the Disciples are doing. Can you say "Ma-tric-u-la-tion?" How many times do we have to explain our Matriculation program before you understand what we are doing for those we rescue from death in a jet can in space.

Would you have us just leave these people to die? Ran'shad? Read our Matriculation thread and you will see that we are not doing anything like what you are saying, neither are we boasting. We are reporting what we see and what we are doing.

We rescue slaves that are jettisoned into space because slave traders don't want to bother with them. We rescue those left to die and you accuse us of doing damage. We take them in to our Matriculation Centers, Vocational training Centers, Academic Learning Centers, and you accuse us of doing damage.

The militants will be transported to our detention facility in Korama until we find out who they are. The Tourists are free to go as soon as we know they are OK and have helped them contact loved ones. We do not yet know who's military the Marines are a part of, when we are assured that they are legit, they are free to go.

As for the "so-called" VIP. We have no idea who he is, and he has not yet identified himself. We will keep the community updated when we receive more information.

Saisa,

This morning I rescued 14 slaves and took 2 slavers into custody in the Caldari-Amarr border region. I have no wish to detain the slaves, nor to sell then at market. How can I drop them off at one of your rehabilitation/matriculation centres?

Captain Pang,

I would be more than happy to take those poor souls off of your hands. I operate a small facility of my own for helping to get these individuals back on their feet. I would also be most pleased to compensate you for your time taken away form other tasks and reward you for your humanitarian efforts. Please contact me at you earliest convienance to discuss.

The Disciples of Ston Welcome pilot Ta Pang
May this new Initiate Disciple be an instrument of peace and freedom in our cluster.

I only have 1 rule.

Everyone fights, nobody quits. If you don't do your job, I'll kill you myself.

From his bio:



Sounds like you need to inspect your instruments of peace a little closer.

From his bio:



Sounds like you need to inspect your instruments of peace a little closer.

Warriors of old touched the blood of their enemies. This could not be avoided. Warriors of old understood the meaning of life and the significance of taking life for a just or necessary cause. But now? The capsuleer floating in his vat of ectoplasm, never touches, let alone sees the blood of the men and women he kills. Yet, the most violent among us dares call himself/herself, a warrior. So sanitary our killing has become. So neat, so tidy, so clean and without smell and feel. push a button, kill your enemy. Do you know what his blood smells like? I thought not.

You are more machine than warrior.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace.

I have a big issue to deal with regarding water supply and consumption in our Centers. The Elders have convened to ask a big question. How should we determine a reasonable per/person water consumption level per day. Each unit of water contains 380 liters. How many liters does the "average person" use each day. Basic research will show that some people in the Federation for example, waste huge amounts of water. We will not be using them as our standard. The other sovereignties vary vastly in water usage. How do we determine a reasonable amount? It is a harder question than meets the eye.

Would the readers of this fine forum be willing to help us determine how much water per person our M-centers need each day?

Drinking is not the big issue. Hygiene is the bigger issue. If Ston can establish another water production plant, that will help things a lot. Perhaps Ta Pang could also train up to build a plant as well.

YOU ARE THE LEAST VALUABLE, SO DIE!

That was the sentiment expressed by the pilot who dumped a group of scientist into a death can and jettisoned them to die. When the pilot was contacted after the scientist were rescued, he said that he didn't have room in his corgo bay and that the scientist were the least valuable of his cargoes, so he dumped them. Hmm?

How do you reflect on such a brazen disregard for life?

Never argued that it wasn't realistic, just that it was Callous.

Although there is a difference between soldiers at war and murder of non-combatants. destroying enemies of the Empire who went to war willingly is a whole heap different than out and out murder. Being 'realistic' doesn't give you the right to kill just because you can.

humanitarian Capsuleers

The Elders have sent me into a remote area of space and instructed me to explore 0.0 areas for a time and then return for the Voluval. The Matriculation Center Elders have given their blessing for me to participate and the Elders of Eldulf were contacted by those in the M-Center before I left for Eldulf. I will follow the directions of the Elders and have begun the exploration of the system adjacent to Egbinger. It is peaceful out here. I am mapping my first stellar core of a 0.0 system. There is a significant Vherokior presence in this area of space. Something tells me that the Elders know something about me that I do not. It is a strange feeling.

Congratulations Manwe. I know that you will never let me see the mark, so I hope it is OK to kind of give people an idea of what it might look like. Sankofa

THE URBAN BLIGHT OF THE SPACE LANES

One of the space routes that we patrol is refequented by advertisers. Most of this are corporations seekng to recruit memebers but some advertise other things as well. The typical MO is to anchor a secure container far enough from the gate to make anchoring possible but close enough to be seen on the neo com as approaching the gate. This blight of adverts doesn't usually get under my skin too much until today.

Someone dropped a small standard can advertising a gambling scam to make you rich quick. Greed, being one of the basest of human vices, is easy to pull on. Greed can easily cloud the senses and contaminate good judgement. Now, try to catch the point here: The advertiser used a small, unanchorable container costing a couple thousand ISK. He probably assumed that those who frequent this corridor would leave it be, knowing it was of little value. That way the advertisment could stay for some time and maybe catch a few. Afterall, who bothers with thousands, when millions can be made?

I felt compelled to scoop it up and repackage it for something more useful. I am sure the centers can use it for some good.

Not to be contrary, but isn't that like removing his freedom of speech you value so much, simply because you think hes morally inferior. Many talk strong against the empire for removing freedoms for sake of morality or order, but when given the same choices in miniature they almost all do the same thing.

Now before you go saying 'this is different!' No, its not. Did you act because you felt you where morally superior and thus your voice should be stronger than his? Yes, you did. There is nothing wrong with that, you where in the right, obviously, but I am trying to make you understand the Amarrian point of view, something that your apparently not too far from yourself.

A LEGITIMATE CRITICISM

Mr. Thessalonia recently pointed out that the Disciples of Ston are wordy and that we didn't need to open yet another thread. He is absolutely right. I, especially am wordy. Words are my tools of communication. Unlike other capsuleers, I don't speak with weapons, kill mails, war records, etc. Words are my main way of expressing my values and what we are doing as an organization. This results in us (me in particular) sometimes talking too much. I apologize.

One would also wonder why Nation found it neccesary to steal the life of an innocent reporter as well, but Kuvakei showed no hesitation in doing exactly that to ISD Tedra Kerrigan, despite her being allowed supposedly "safe" passage to visit him for an interview.

Nation does not exactly act logically.

One would also wonder why Nation found it neccesary to steal the life of an innocent reporter as well, but Kuvakei showed no hesitation in doing exactly that to ISD Tedra Kerrigan, despite her being allowed supposedly "safe" passage to visit him for an interview.

Nation does not exactly act logically.

All sincere offers are proffered on our public information system in all our Centers. Our residents know that we are serious about self-determination. Among our thousands of residents, there may be some Utopians who are interested in learning what Nation is. We need not agree with the choices people make to offer those choices. We have had residents even go back to Holders, by their choice. Mr. Thessalonia, we will post your offer along with access to all relevant discussions on the matter so the residents can get a full picture of those for and against Nation.

But she's still around. She even has her old job.

Her life was hardly stolen. If anything her genetic material, by way of a clone body, was taken. As unsettling as that might sound I think it's fair to say it really only counts as property theft and perhaps an invasion of privacy. By all accounts she is alive and well, if surprised, and near as I can figure still gallivanting around the cluster searching for the next big story.

If people wish to suggest that TS-F and it's people are dishonest I would hope to see evidence of it from the actions of those people themselves rather than some sort of guilt by association silliness.

That said, I urge the Disciples of Ston to approach this offer from TS-F with caution. Not because of the source, but solely because of the fact it would more greatly effects the lives of others and not the Disciples of Ston themselves. For the record, I'd urge caution if anyone, even an envoy from the SOE, made the same offer.

One would also wonder why Nation found it neccesary to steal the life of an innocent reporter as well, but Kuvakei showed no hesitation in doing exactly that to ISD Tedra Kerrigan, despite her being allowed supposedly "safe" passage to visit him for an interview.

Nation does not exactly act logically.

It's always a bit amusing what kind of generally-accepted truths are being deemed necessary to discuss on IGS.

The "utopia" Nation offers is the utopia of removing the ability to be unhappy by force. You get to keep your own mind until you dislike something Nation considers good, then you get it removed because you are obviously deviant. It's no different from any other fascist dictatorship in the past, except they found a way to make it unlikely for their oppressed population to ever revolt.

Nation has always worked with the promise of utopia. They show others their "utopia", and hope they'll join voluntarily. Once they're there, they're guaranteed to never feel unhappy again - not because Nation will do and provide everything for them, but because Nation will remove their ability to dislike Nation. And if you don't go there voluntarily, they'll cheerfully come over and force you in a bit later.

In the end, Nation is nothing but a devious group of lunatics who, in the pursuit of the elusive happiness, have lost themselves and their minds. And they will never realize it: The second they do, their friendly Happy Chips will make them simply forget that thought of unhappiness. You need to be very, very desperate to go for that.