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Buggsi
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Posted - 2004.03.08 12:59:00 -
[1]
Well, all the ships travel at warp 3.0 AU's per second, no variety. No warp 1, no warp 10. And jumpgates provide easy bottlenecks for camping. I was kind of hoping there would be free-warping. You know, in a star trek kind of way.
I understand that would mean crossing from one zone to another (server to server), but you do that anyways everytime you jump.
There can be places in space that are naturally occuring warp scramblers, and player made warp scramblers increase that so they can cover hundreds of AU's of space.
Eh, I dunno.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:04:00 -
[2]
I assume you are quite new to EVE, cause there is a module called "Jump Drive" but its not in game yet and you need a "Titan" class ship which is also not available to players yet.
Intercepting since BETA |
Buggsi
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:35:00 -
[3]
Yeah im new to the game.
But I did come from WWiionline, and there was a problem with camping (the spawn points) in that game. And what did the devs do? They installed laser guided computer controlled, well, turrets around the spawn points (choke points).
Anti-tank robots.
Anti-air robots.
Anti-Infantry robots.
The towns are literally surrounded by robots. *beep beep*
The devs took the easy way out in that game too, instead of finding a more creative-alternative solution to camping and choke points. It just created more problems then it solved.
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Lallante
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:45:00 -
[4]
do you realise how low the traffic is on even the busiest 0.0 gate?
If you added this anti-choke point device, you essentially eliminate all piracy and alliance war, leaving only optional PvP.
noob indeed
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Buggsi
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Posted - 2004.03.09 07:37:00 -
[5]
Lallante, of course, thats why the DEVS need to come up with a creative-new solution to a problem thats been problematic since internet gaming was invented by Al Gore.
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.03.09 07:54:00 -
[6]
You're talking about devs who thought it was a good idea to add air friction in deep space.
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.03.09 09:25:00 -
[7]
That's not air friction. that's your ships inertia stabilizers keeping you from drifting. Because drifting was banned by the universal protection act in 23207. dunno..
Solarsystems are light years apart from one another. Warp technology just can't go that fast in EVE.
And if you take out a pirates ability to camp jumpgates, then you would have to add something like warp-able long range scanners to restore balance to the universe.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Redstar1
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Posted - 2004.03.09 11:11:00 -
[8]
Jumpgates are the only viable option, else the game simply turns into a single player game that just happens to be online. Imagine if you had free reign over where you could warp to... how would you ever manage to meet for a battle, swap bookmarks? No, the main element of this game is about the player interaction, whether thats in joint mining, corp wars, trade, industry... The jumpgate system ensures that players come into contact with each other which of course is the whole point of a MMORPG:)
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.03.09 11:20:00 -
[9]
Each system is like a server, mix all 5000 systems togather and several thousand people, hundreds of thousands of NPC, sentry guns, all calculations for that and for every action made by a player would melt the servers.
Doubt any computer could handle that.
Spawn of the Devil
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Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.03.09 11:30:00 -
[10]
Hematic check my sig. man i coudent resist
 Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.03.09 18:17:00 -
[11]
That sure would be pretty if Jump Drives worked like that..
Like your standard jump drive can jump 5 light years. And then it takes 30 minutes to recharge. So you open up the big map. You select an option to highlight the stars within 5 light years. Then BAM! you can jump to one of the stars in range.
Dunno though.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Ashantee
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Posted - 2004.03.09 18:22:00 -
[12]
Quote:
You're talking about devs who thought it was a good idea to add air friction in deep space.
Friction from space dust/particles is present in space, and Space isn't a COMPLETE vacuum... I don't believe we (human race) have every seen a complete vacuum. Therefore there are gas particles present... which would be air i guess... which means there is air resistance in space... wait a sec, is that right?
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.09 18:24:00 -
[13]
The problem would be that the systems aren't actually connected, server-wise.
The jumpgates are needed to initiate a node-change 
Join the IC! |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.09 18:41:00 -
[14]
Why not one node for the whole galaxy. No more jump gates. ONE node. How close are we anyway. You would never have to set up the npc pirates everytime a player enters a solar system.
The pirates would be constant. You could place a smarter AI for pirates anyway.
If I want to warp 30 solarsytems away soo be it. I would know that it would be like 400 au and with Warp disruptors out now pirate camping at jump gates is mute. Wars would be way cooler.
Could you say a local chat with 7k pc not being a close community is not mmogp to the highest degree.
Wow now we are talking.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Xenu
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Posted - 2004.03.09 19:11:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Why not one node for the whole galaxy.
If I wanted that much lag I could just play on a 56k connection.
________________________________________________________
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.09 19:18:00 -
[16]
"If I want to warp 30 solarsytems away soo be it. I would know that it would be like 400 au and with Warp disruptors out now pirate camping at jump gates is mute. Wars would be way cooler."
... How would you even have your war if the enemy at any point is free to warp 30 solarsystems away when they don't like the odds? What would be so way cooler about it?
(and where would you put the warp disruptors if there's no more traffic lanes, since anyone can warp between any two points...)
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.03.09 19:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 09/03/2004 19:22:41
Quote:
Friction from space dust/particles is present in space, and Space isn't a COMPLETE vacuum... I don't believe we (human race) have every seen a complete vacuum. Therefore there are gas particles present... which would be air i guess... which means there is air resistance in space... wait a sec, is that right?
Space...even deep space...is not completely empty like you suggest. Quantum mechanics dictates, if nothing else, that virtual particles are winking in and out of existance all the time even in a 100% vacuum.
That said it is effectively completely empty from the standpoint of a ship moving through and being slowed down by friction. There are trillions of particles between you and your computer screen right now. A space ship would have to travel trillions of miles to be slowed down as much as it would just travelling between your head and your computer monitor. When that is held against the mass of the spaceship the effect is so small as to be undetectable.
So, for all practical purposes, space is empty. Actually, for practical purposes you cannot ignore space dust in high speed space travel as even one tiny dust particle at relativistic speeds will punch a nice hole through your spaceship. Add that up several thousand times travelling through a system and your spaceship will be swiss cheese at the end of its trip. However you will not be slowed down by much at all...just full of holes and probably dead. In Star Trek it is the Deflector Dish (radar dish looking thingy under the saucer section at the front of the main hull) that is used to push interstellar debris out of the way for this very reason. One can only assume that the shields on EVE ships manage the same task in protecting the ship.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.03.09 20:26:00 -
[18]
About the one node idea, that will never work. You're talking about having 5000 systems running off one server, no server can handle that much work, it's why the devs have split the universe up into nodes in the first place.
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Sylia Masters
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Posted - 2004.03.09 21:59:00 -
[19]
If you use the safe spot trick and warp; then check the map, you'll find that your 'inside' another system, that you acutaly traveled the distance between the systems. However is is very true that each system is not in the same 'space' so it's just empty, and the only way to get there is via jumping. Otherwise I could easily go anywhere I want, and not have to worry about choke points, gate campers, anything.
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JackDonkey
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Posted - 2004.03.09 22:05:00 -
[20]
Quote:
do you realise how low the traffic is on even the busiest 0.0 gate?
If you added this anti-choke point device, you essentially eliminate all piracy and alliance war, leaving only optional PvP.
Serpentis, Sansha, Blood Raiders, they are all guarding asteroid belts and not their stargates. Maybe the original intention was to guard your prime mining ground as opposed to your system, which would be no different if it were to be star trek warp style.
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nether void
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Posted - 2004.03.09 23:05:00 -
[21]
I thought warping inside a system was a sure way to die? Too many particles to deflect.
Anyway not having jump gates won't work until we can lay seige to static "bases". Until then, the ship is the primary target for any war. Ships are mobile and fast, therefore a hard target.
If we had bases as a means to attack during a war, there would be no need to try and chase ships. Just drop a bomb on their base, and see how fast they come running to defend.
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nether void - since '97 |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.03.09 23:25:00 -
[22]
Quote:
I thought warping inside a system was a sure way to die? Too many particles to deflect.
Luckily in EVE warping through solid objects such as planets, suns and stations isn't a problem so I suppose dust particles are of little consequence. 
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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.09 23:51:00 -
[23]
In EVE, warping is creating a depleted vacuum around your ship, allowing it to travel faster than light (at least it's explained this way in the scientific article). So as you deplete the vacuum, there are no particles.
Warping from one system to another would take you years, similar to flying without warp from one gate to another ...
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Janus Rebelknight
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Posted - 2004.03.10 00:00:00 -
[24]
In Star Trek, ships can be intercepted when in warp.
Also do I have ranges and fuel so I do at least need to stop 'somewhere' when employing jump drive?
As an earlier poster noted, the only way to make EVE compatible with this idea is to have more player owned structures and to put the onus on the defenders to actually defend as now there is very little onus to actually do that.
Then of course you have the issue of attackers waiting until the defenders have logged due to RL/sleep before attacking! :)
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Janus
"I'm not a stripper, I'm a miner." |
Rathant
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Posted - 2004.03.10 01:44:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Rathant on 10/03/2004 01:47:56
Edited by: Rathant on 10/03/2004 01:46:48
Star Trek also suffers from narative causality. Ships are intercepted because the script writer says so and not because of any realistic tactic. Allowing free travel between systems would be like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack with regards to piracy.
However you're also ignoring the fact that half the game would have to be redesigned in order to accomodate the idea. Whole new server-side code to control the hugely increased play area. Plus the server load and lag problems, data processing bottlenecks.
Its just not realistic.
Though my final word will be...
"How long until we intercept the klingon ship helmsman?"
"16 hours and 32 minutes, Sir."
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2004.03.10 02:58:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Warping from one system to another would take you years, similar to flying without warp from one gate to another ...
Not true... if our ships can sustain 3AU/second aka 499c, you could cover 10 light years in a little over 73 days. You could make it from earth to Alpha Centauri in a little over a month. A logical time frame for construction, except the eve backstory has gates constructed by classic sci-fi sleeper ships.
Also, while speaking of warp, in real star trek, nearly all combat took place at warp speed. The Berman and Braga stuff doesn't count in the least...
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.03.10 05:30:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Friction from space dust/particles is present in space, and Space isn't a COMPLETE vacuum... I don't believe we (human race) have every seen a complete vacuum. Therefore there are gas particles present... which would be air i guess... which means there is air resistance in space... wait a sec, is that right?
I believe there is something like one molecule of hydrogen per square metre in space. So I'm thinking that's not quite enough to slow a 100,000,000 kg+ object by 10-30m/s.
Frank, diggin' the sig :)
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Skelator
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Posted - 2004.03.10 05:54:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Each system is like a server, mix all 5000 systems togather and several thousand people, hundreds of thousands of NPC, sentry guns, all calculations for that and for every action made by a player would melt the servers.
Doubt any computer could handle that.
You havent met one of my New AS400's
I think you meant to say No "MICROSOFT" product can handle that stress lol
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2004.03.10 08:59:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Quote:
Why not one node for the whole galaxy.
If I wanted that much lag I could just play on a 56k connection.
If we had one node I could play the game writing down my moves on paper and using UPS.
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Buggsi
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Posted - 2004.03.10 10:47:00 -
[30]
AU=Astronimical Unit. Distance between the Earth and the Sun. Takes 8 minutes for light to travel from Earth to the Sun.
If a ship is traveling at 1 AU per second, then it is traveling at 60 seconds times 8 minutes the speed of light. That is 480 times the speed of light.
In the game ships travel at 3 AU's, all ships. Thats 3*480=1440 times the speed of light.
1440 times the speed of light. Im not a trekkie, but that sounds like warp 1440. Where most ships on star trek go at max of WARP TEN. Ships in this game are going 144 times faster then your average enterprise.
SO its not unrealistic to have questions about FREE WARPING, since 3 AU's per second is pretty darn fast. It would probably take 1 minute to travel from star system to star system in the game.
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