| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dragon Emperor
   |
Posted - 2003.06.12 15:53:00 -
[61]
//Give Frigates like 6 or 8 medium slots.//
...... what's the purpose to give frigates 6 or 8 medium slots if frigates NEVER be able to fit them all? check your cpu and power output first and talk about give frigates 6-8 medium slots... lol
|
Aras
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 16:30:00 -
[62]
Frigates RULE. Cheap enough to have several sittin in the hanger and if you need to changes stations.. leave them behind or sell them.
I love having a punisher with 3 mining lasers cutting away some ore. Have a few cruisers to gaurd from threats and have everyone else jump in a tormentor or punisher and cut away.. a few indies to pick up.
Lots of mins fast and what's the absolute worst thing that could happen.. Lose 2 indies, a few frigs, and a couple cruisers, No sweat.
Frigs are like disposable lighters, they'll never be obsolete.
**I'm a flower, watch me blossom... and kill** |
Anercite
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 16:40:00 -
[63]
If you've ever played wing commander, you fly small fighters and/or frigates and they can take out big ships, they need to implament a way so that big ships haev trouble hitting smalelr ships. Maybe a frigate-bomber class, specicifcally designed to take out larger ships alone or in duos ect...
Look at Star Wars=) the death start was a frickin moon and it couldnt take out the fightrers, balance is neeeded in size confrontation. And it wont be a since for either, remember that wholetrench run thing
The game needs to promote groups and working together as well as making it possible for lones, corps \should have well blaances groups with frigates and cruies and BS's eventually. Of course, missles should be upgraded, along with a speciual type of class(bobmber) or a speicla type of frigate missle launcher capable of lauching torpedoes or cruiser killer things, yes guns should be able to easily hit frigates, but if they do....
Edited by: Anercite on 12/06/2003 16:55:12
|
Callas
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 16:57:00 -
[64]
> All they need to do is make it very hard for
> cruisers to hit frigates... end of story.
I can see the threads now...
"What use are cruisers?"
"Nerf frigates - they're too hard to hit!"
"I paid 10 million for my Moa and I got nailed by a Rifter!!"
I think it's *bizzare* to even think about making cruisers so that they are unable to destroy frigates. It's totally crazy.
--
Callas
|
Callas
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 16:59:00 -
[65]
> Callas wrote:
> > Ships are simple. They are a trade off
> > between speed/maneuverability and
> > firepower/endurance.
> Right now there is no tradeoff. With
> afterburners and MWD it's just more of
> everything the higher you go. As such, bigger
> is always better and there is no reason you
> would ever want anything other than the
> largest class of ship you can afford.
Yes, this is indeed true. I think MWDs and afterburners should not stack, which would at least partially deal with this problem.
However, a cruiser with a MWD will still be a butt load faster than a frigate with an afterburner.
Bad module design by CCP? I can't see a way out of this one.
--
Callas
|
Xzragath
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 18:13:00 -
[66]
In general I think frigates will become obsolete. Many people will still fly them, new ones will come out, they will get better and more deadly but so will Cruisers and larger ships.
Frigates are the newbie ship of Eve. I don't see a problem with them being owned 1 on 1 but they will continue to be a force to be reckoned with in mass. I also see no problem with Cruisers and larger ships becoming faster and more powerful as the pilots grow in experience. This is not the open seas it is space, mass does no mean slow in space it means larger engines to propel you at greater speeds and maneuver you quickly around the solar system. It also means more power to mount larger guns that have greater range and more damaging affects. All in all I see no problem with frigates being the weakest ship in the game, they are. That is why they are so cheap, they are expendable. The real question is do you want to protect your biomass with the weakest shell in the game? Some people will always want to fly frigates, for whatever reason it is just the way things are. Other people only want the biggest baddest thing in the game, again just the way things are. So even if Frigates are obsolete people will still use them.
Some are complaining that it gives an unfair advantage to people with more money, large Corps etc. Well duh, this whole game is based on money. Whoever has the most money will have the best stuff (in general). Sorry if you think this is unfair but it is a major part of the game. The only thing money will not get you in this game is higher skills, that takes time, other than that he with the most money has the most toys (again in general).
|
Callas
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 18:43:00 -
[67]
 Quote:
If you've ever played wing commander, you fly small fighters and/or frigates and they can take out big ships, they need to implament a way so that big ships haev trouble hitting smalelr ships.
AFAIK, the slow tracking speed on cruiser class weapons is the Eve equivelent.
Quote:
Look at Star Wars=) the death start was a frickin moon and it couldnt take out the fightrers,
I'm not sure a heroic-epic type movie is a good source of game balance inspiration.
Quote:
The game needs to promote groups and working together as well as making it possible for lones,
So the game should promote everything? =)
--
Callas
|
black crow
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 19:33:00 -
[68]
I can see why some people might think the Frigate is obsolete, being this game is still young and everyone is still learning how things work. Im sure most people that that have tried to take on a cruiser with a frigate or two have experienced some sort of unbalance, dont you? But really all the ship class types are meant to serve a role and those roles cant really be noticed in head to head combat or small skirmishes. Thats like pitting a couple foot soldiers up against a tank, or some helicopters against one fighter jet, or even a few gunboats against a battleship! Now thats not to say that those foot soldiers couldnt take down a tank. But in order to do so you would need good strategies and/or force in numbers. Thats were EVE will rise above the other games IMO. When the actual roles of each ship begin to have purpose thats when itll get fun.
IMO the role of the frigate is to be the grunts of the formation, the soldiers. The ones who jump into the fray gunz blazn! Theyre cheap cuz they're meant to be expendable. Theyre fast cuz they should be taking all the fire away from the larger ships. The importance of their role cannot be understated just as a foot soldier is to his unit.
With all that said I still have some gripes about combat in the game. Heres some things i would like to see happen to combat in EVE:
1) There should be a way to target specific systems on a ship. Personally i think any craft thats smaller than its target should be able to target its individual systems. Like a cruiser could target a battleships engines or a frigate could target a cruisers missle launchers or somthing to that effect.
2) Cloaking! Some sort of suprise is essential for good combat tactics. I would like to see cloaking have its own skill set. It should have a counterpart to detect cloaked ships of course with its own skill set. And ditch the Local Channel uber radar!
3)Along with what someelse stated earlier in this thread, when you select approach or keep at distance you should pursue when they warp. Being able to fire weapons at warp speed though might not be a good idea!
4)Keep Distance and Orbit should be scalable. IMO you should be able to adjust distance for those commands on the fly and user friendly.
5)Evasive Manuevering should be more automatic! Maybe an extra command for the right click menu???? When you select it you turn and roll to your ships max agility while following your target. This way it maximizes your ships ability to evade incoming fire.
I have more but this is post getting long! Anyway frigates are at the moment useful just use them the way they are supposed to be used. And remember one xwing didnt take down whole the death star multiple squadrons did! |
Kiran
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 21:32:00 -
[69]
Frigates are like the one man fighters of any sci-fi movie. They swarm over the larger ships taking out the other fighters while the larger ships take each other on. Sometimes a fighter will get a break in combat to help out attacking the larger enemy ship.
So I dont think we are going to see the end of the Frigate as people will learn what roles they play in large battles.
As for Freelancers giving up and joing a corp personaly I dont think I will. I like my freedom to much and truley dont fancy wearing a company jumpsuite and handing over all my ISK to some big fat CEO.
At the end of the day what I make is mine and it dont belong to any corperation.
Kiran of the EFN/FLC
Kiran-" Damn where did that pirate go?"
Martican (co-pilot)-" He went behind those two big pink asteroids."
Kiran-"Will you stop taking the **** out of my fury dice?" |
Vachir
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 22:00:00 -
[70]
The problem is, there is absolutely nothing you can do better in a frigate than you can in a cruiser. If your corp uses frigates and cruisers, while another uses only cruisers you would lose, because frigates are just all around weaker ships than cruisers.
|
Fredde
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 22:39:00 -
[71]
It would be nice to have a ship class to fill the gap between Frigates and cruisers.
perhaps a destroyer for a more-than-frigate (more modules and power, but still limited to small size modules), and a light cruiser to be the less-than-cruiser(with Medium slots).
Of course that would mean battlecruisers and dreadnaughts to cover the cruiser-battleship and battleship-titan gaps as well...
|
DarkRift
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 22:43:00 -
[72]
For the unbalanced micro warp drive speed advantage on cruisers, check my idea for a nano warp drive (NWD) for frigates here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=7338
|
Callas
|
Posted - 2003.06.12 22:44:00 -
[73]
Quote:
As for Freelancers giving up and joing a corp personaly I dont think I will. I like my freedom to much and truley dont fancy wearing a company jumpsuite and handing over all my ISK to some big fat CEO.
Opportunity to plug my corp here :)
I run "Milton Friedman's Trading Corporation".
Tax is 0%. Players have maximum possible political and economic freedom. The CEO is a figurehead only (you've got to have one to have a corp).
You do what you want. If you want to trade alone, you do. If you want to work with a corp member, you do. If you want to mine, go ahead.
All the stuff you buy belongs to you, not the corp. All the money you make belongs to you, not the corp.
We are all equal individuals. The corp only exists to provide services we cannot provide for ourselves, but can only provide by working with others - in practise, this means a military capability. There are levies to pay for this; these levies occur when the guy who runs defence thinks we need something. He proposes the charge to the corp, and if the majority agree, then all must pay towards the cost.
It's up to you to make as much money as you can. You find the way that is best for you. That way may or may not change over time. It's entirely up to you. The corp does not subsidize you, and the corp does not charge you to subsidize others.
--
Callas
Edited by: Callas on 12/06/2003 22:50:02
|
Sri
|
Posted - 2003.06.13 03:06:00 -
[74]
Think total cost. Taking caldari ships for a moment. Moa, fullly equipped, say 20 million. Now have 20 million in merlins and you've got what 55 odd merlins.
The performace curves are not really linear for this game (and nor should they be), since 55 merlins would obliterate a moa very very quickly. Assuming they could get close enough to lock on. A couple to stasis field, a couple to warp scramble. Now obviously no one would use 55 merlins. You'd have a combo of merlins and kestrels etc...
PC frigates should need a couple of friends to survive against most PC cruisers. But since there is a fairly large gap bounty wise between NPC frigates and NPC Cruisers. So IMO PC combat frigates should be able to with difficulty take on the weaker NPC cruisers solo. Which they basically can. I think that's the only way to make viable a PVE option for people, since mining can get dull fast.
Now the way I see things a PC cruiser shouldn't be able to just waltz around smashing PC's in frigates who are solo. Warp disruptors should be much harder to use, and ships should be harder to disrupt etc... so that if you want to warp disrupt someone you need a designated ship or two to handle that. Corrollory to this whole discussion is the whole pirate business too, but that's covered in other threads.
|
Reiisha
|
Posted - 2004.05.04 22:44:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Reiisha on 04/05/2004 22:48:30
Edited by: Reiisha on 04/05/2004 22:47:58
In light of EVE's first birthday, i was looking through old topics..... and found this one. Imagine this, the same discussion is being held at this very moment.... Nothing has changed, really...
In any case, happy birthday EVE!
Congrats to CCP to surviving their first year with this mmorpg :)
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
Alowishus
|
Posted - 2004.05.04 23:09:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tige
Right now you can give a nOob a cruiser and he will own all Frigates now matter who they are and how they are kitted out.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. First off an experienced Kestrel pilot could own a "nOob" in a cruiser really easy.
When I was a "nOob" and got my first cruiser I could not use cruise missiles, could not use MWD, could not use shield hardeners. A Rifter with an MWD and cruise missiles and a scrambler would have owned my ass. There would have been nothing I could do. Do you disagree?
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
OFFT
|
Posted - 2004.05.04 23:22:00 -
[77]
Edited by: OFFT on 04/05/2004 23:49:49
I havenot read the rest I admit...sorry....
Having used Kestrels and NOW Interceptors for level 3 missions I know frigates arent obsolete.
You just need SKILLS
You go full circle..Having got the Bs you think erm what next...Oh a frigate...what else can that do ...
So far my Crow has taken out all Caldari but a Moa.
This can be achieved in a equiped and skilled normal frigate.
I dont use UBER mods...I use standard mods.
Its the skills that make the frigate a weapon.
IF people specialised in frigate skills and didnt go "I wanna Battleship .... " then they would specialise in the skills needed for a MEAN  Frigate that BITES and doesnt just spit.....
EDITED :
Originally by: Mandros Aslay
Having just started to collect Minimater and Gallente Ships I can now conclude that Interceptors are not really "worth it ".
Alot of the level 3 frigates provide what I need such as range and speed.
Interceptors are flash and fun.
But invest in a level3 frigate , really go level5 on frig skills , afterburner, mwd and targeting , and gunnery.
Invest the time in skills not money (isk)in an item that will drop in price or be superceded by a cruiser thats shiner.
Invest isk in skills, Time in skills and oh get a top notch clone.
I saw this in Ships and Modules and thought that what I sorta said .....
OFFT FORM LIFE :SIMPLE IN A COMPLICATED WAY Some players make EVE history : Other players are EVE history
"We cant all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and and clap as they go by"
scooooshcrumpzerump (c) Random RandomnesesesesÖ |
Kunming
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 01:44:00 -
[78]
It's true that frigates die out after the player jumps in a cruiser, but as more and more skills are gained the frigates become very lethal weapons. As primary advantage their speed (high navigational skills) and their replacability.
Spending 1/10 of the cost of a cruiser you can very easyly kill cruisers with a frigate once a player has the proper skills and experience in "pvp".
Elite frigates are a great annoyance to bigger ships, but some frigates can hunt them down easyly (Rifter to name one).
So IMHO the ship classes are kinda balanced with 2 problems remaining:
- The big gap between the frigate and cruiser, and the even bigger gap between cruiser and BS class, but apparently it will change once destroyers are in
- Most of the cruisers are good for nothing except mining, the cruisers some lovin'
Intercepting since BETA |
Morlock
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 02:35:00 -
[79]
i wonder what game some people are playing when they talk about this stuff. its definately not eve.
frigates are excellent for pvp and can handle spawn to 0.4 no problems (unless theres missile launchers). cruisers can take 0.4 down to 0.0 (but not rats in ark fields). if you're in a frigate getting owned hunting 0.4 then do some agent missions, melt down 0.5 rat loot for mins, save up and buy a cruiser. doesn't take that long to do. i've been playing for months and i only just got my battleship so it's not like i'll have 4 parked in my hangar any time soon. and there will always be frigs parked there for pvp.
patience grasshopper
|
Ronyo Dae'Loki
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 02:59:00 -
[80]
Frigates obsolete?
LOLLERSKATES!
That's all I have to say about this thread.
-------------
My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Shintoko Akahoshi
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 03:52:00 -
[81]
Um... No offense, but you're all missing something. Go look up above Reiishas post. Look at the dates on the posts.
This thread was an interesting piece of history, and one of the reasons why frigates aren't obsolete today...
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Mustafa Ken'Yova
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 03:59:00 -
[82]
I'm sorry but I don't agree with your argument.
If you have the right setup / skills, frigates are far from obselete. As it is right now, 5 frigates can take down a BS fairly easily.
Also, a skilled frigate pilot can take down a lone cruiser. Elite frigates make your point even more moot. Heavy drones are a definite end to frigates atm, but that will change soon.
And finally, the balance changes coming up in the next patch will make frigates very survivable in fleet combat. Ask any veteran EVE player, frigates are far from useless.
...... |
Dexter Rast
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 07:34:00 -
[83]
agreed,
normal progression in game is to start off with a frigate to get you going, then you move onto a cruiser asap in order to build your funds quicker, as your skills get higher with time you are then able to jump back into a frigate in order to get the best out of them,
frigate pilots with no skills are easy prey,
frigate pilots with decent skills are something to be very wary of.
---------------------------------------------
|
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 08:37:00 -
[84]
Interesting argument, and worth the bump.
Even more interesting are the people who are reacting to an 11-month-old thread with outrage and scorn. Not the sharpest tools in the shed, I suppose.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Aelius
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 10:22:00 -
[85]
Quote:
Posted - 2003.06.10 16:13:00
Now thats a bump
It should be worth at least 1 month of ban from the forums.
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Deadflip2
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 11:21:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Shintai
Also remember that currently the top frigate cost 1/50 of a top cruiser. Battleships will most likely be 20x more expensive that cruiser.
You have 2-3 targettime in a frig, 5-6sec in a cruiser and 8+ sec in a battleship.
Now clone are in, its not that dangerous to get killed before you need really expensive clones.
So instead of potentionally waste your 12mio topcruisers+guns. You and your corp can now risk 20-30 frigates+guns. You just have to destroy one cruiser to win the economic battle. And if you win that. Then you won the main battle too.
4 cruisers can kill a battleship without loss 50mio vs 200mio. 30 frigates can do the same.
10mio beats 200mio. I know you need manpower for this. And there will be no podkill. Since it takes too long to retarget a pod in a big ship and you more or less instantwarps away in a pod.
It takes 3 days to build a battleship. How long does it take to build the 30 frigates? ;)
If I go with 3 250mm prototype rails. I can destroy a heavy frigate in 6-7sec on 10-40km range. I need maybe 10-12 on 5-10km. And 20-30sec on 0-2km.
So yes, I think frigates will keep their life. It¦s too expensive for both parties to waste 100-400mio in a medium corp war. Or 50-100mio in a small corp war.
Frigates will do when the wallet hurts ;)
Frigates can hit permant for 80 per gun
Edited by: Shintai on 10/06/2003 19:01:08
my crow costs the price of nearly 2 blackbirds dude, look at new stats.
owh and for that very reson i can take out most cruisers (bbs aint one of ehm though  )
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Deadflip2
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 11:23:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Wotok
You forgot something.
At some point (I would think starting in 2 or 4 months) there will be a constant supply of new blueprints. This includes new ships (perhaps even new ship classes some time) and new equipment.
What does this mean? Your ships will outdate!!!
If you don't buy a whole NEW cruiser in some months and also new equipment, your old cruiser will have worse stats than my all-new frigate.
This means also, that not everyone will bee able to afford an ³ber-battleship. If you have to work several months for it, you just can't stay at the top-of-the-art level. (Don't forget: it's not only the ship, but also the appropriate equipment)
On the other hand it's a possibility for some solo player / small corps to buy some outdated old battleships...
I find some more exciting new aspects of this game every time I think about it. :))))
Edited by: Wotok on 10/06/2003 17:04:26
fair point only you miss something, the new ships will each have their own role, so its not like interceptors will be exeeded in speed and resolution at any time
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 11:24:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Aelius
Quote:
Posted - 2003.06.10 16:13:00
Now thats a bump
It should be worth at least 1 month of ban from the forums.
Really I was thinking more in the lines of brutally murdering him. It would set a good example 
__________
Capacitor research |
Miz Cenuij
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 13:28:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 05/05/2004 13:30:41
How things change over 11 months...
Now I dont even own a cruiser or battleship.
Only ever fly my crow or silver mag.
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
Klio
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 13:37:00 -
[90]
Things sure have changed
 EVE Forum Rules - Contact the Moderator Team |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |