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here'n'there
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:44:00 -
[61]
mr. Zarlak, could you please tell us, how dps concerns this thread's idea of drone support eos? in other words, stop trolling, we're not discussing dps here.
Originally by: Perry I like the Idea of changing the Gang Links to boost Drones! Everyone including The Eos uses drones, so it would boost the gang and itself like all other fleet command ships!
LINK 1: +2% Drone Damage LINK 2: +2% Drone Hitpoints LINK 3: +2% Drone Speed
nice idea but i doubt this could be useful..
Originally by: Frances's Flittchen
a more logical bonus for gallente command ships would be these 3 command modules:
1. turret damage boosting 2. missile damage boosting 3. drone damage boosting
this could be more useful.
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:46:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Perry on 03/12/2007 20:46:03 And now guess which set of Boni is more balanced :D
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Frances's Flittchen
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Posted - 2007.12.03 21:12:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Perry I like the Idea of changing the Gang Links to boost Drones! Everyone including The Eos uses drones, so it would boost the gang and itself like all other fleet command ships!
LINK 1: +2% Drone Damage LINK 2: +2% Drone Hitpoints LINK 3: +2% Drone Speed
nice idea although i think its a bit too gallente specific again. how about a general damage boost?
link 1: 2% turrets link 2: 2% missiles link 3: 2% drones
maybe these numbers are too high, but the idea itself would be more fitting for gallente. gallente = high dps, hence damage boost through Eos.
either way. everything would be better than the current gang boni.
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Pociomundo
Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.12.03 21:28:00 -
[64]
Nice idea, we'll never get it.
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vipeer
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.12.03 21:54:00 -
[65]
If the Eos would already be such an awesome ship in its current reincarnation then people would fly it a lot more. Well...They dont. Why? Simply because Astarte is better than Eos. So much better that people are willing to pay twice as much for an Astarte than an Eos.
The Eos is in the same (price=quality in the eyes of the players) bracket as the Claymore and Vulture so obviously it's not so much better as some would like to show it.
Dispite the fact Eos needs about a month more training to fly than the Astarte and needs T2 heavy drones trained also to use effectively compared to Astarte which takes another month or so and the pilots having trained that also trained drone interfacing lvl 5 which is a rank 5 skill and not having i trained hurts the Eos pilot a lot more than the Astarte pilot. Eos is a drone carrier after all and having drones nearly maxe out helps a lot.
Yet Eos is a lesser ship from both already and with the proposed nerf it will only get a whole lot worse.
Why?
Claymore has a useful gang bonus. Vulture and Damnation have very good gang bonuses that benefit all ships in the gang and are actually useful. Information links are not used at all as every Eos pilot can confirm. Actually information links are a useles bunch atm.
So with the changes coming Eos will be downgraded to a useless ship. Maybe useful for baiting but we all know a damnation can do that a lot better.
All i would like is for CCP to either:
1. Make a good argument as to why Eos is about to become a useless ship i wasted a month worth of training on.
2. Scrap the proposed changes and leave the ship as it is because one look at the market will show you that the Astarte is a better ship and Eos is ok as it is
3. Loose the drone nerf at least and the slot changes because with only 4 mid slots the poor souls still dumb enough to fly it will be totally predictable and adding at least a missile slot would go a long way to ensure people will still fly it.
4. Keep the proposed changes but in that case you need to review the ship bonuses and its role because the ship Eos is supposed to be is a ship nobody will fly because there are plenty of other ships that can do what Eos does after the patch way better.
-------------SIG STARTS HERE------------- Chaining BoBo in south Feyth:
Your Neutron Blaster Cannon II perfectly strikes Dukath [EVOL]<BOB>(Vindicator), wrecking for 741.0 damage. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Eve University
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Posted - 2007.12.03 23:30:00 -
[66]
Originally by: vipeer
Read above post!
1) Just crosstrain the Damnation. You have (should have) t2 armor tank at least, and apparently tank is all that matters for a fleet command ship. And the Damnation has one heck of an armor tank. Should take another month at best.
2) The market as it is would not be a good indicator; much of the recent fluctuation has a lot to do with the nerfs being known.
3) If you knew the Astarte was a better ship, why in the hell did you train for the Eos? Surely it wasn't to run commandlinks, since you considered damage to be above all else.
4) Want a pocket drone carrier? It's called the Ishtar. It also gets a damage bonus to drones.
Yes, CCP needs to take a good look at the Eos. But, posts like yours do little to help our cause.
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Rivek
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.04 06:28:00 -
[67]
The changes coming to the Eos make plenty of sense if you accept the fact that the fleet command ships should have strong tanks, mediocre dps, and exist primarily to provide bonuses to the fleet while surviving under fire.
The one problem I see is that the +15 m3 drone bay per level is freakin' ********. Give it some useful bonus instead thanks. My top choices would be speed/agility, followed by armor resists, armor hp, or cap.
I say this as someone who often flies an Eos, both as a blaster/drone ship and as an info warfare spec pilot. I spent most of my time in the alliance tourney in just that. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.04 07:09:00 -
[68]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Originally by: vipeer
Originally by: NeoTheo i cant remmeber what the guy was called on test centre the other day, however he pwnz0rd my raven with his EOS, sure it took some time, but he ran the tank for well over 5 mins and eventually killed me.
he was saying he adapted his setup, and by god he was good, couldnt kill the git.
point being, EOS was a good ship but MASSIVELY over powered, you can still fit it to be a good ship, but now you have to think about it, rather than slap some modules on and just go pwn.
/Theo
Maybe if you tried a mix of explosive and EMP CM/torpedoes on him instead of showering him with kinetic missiles and vespas playing directly into his strong points he would have died. I flew the Eos into quite a few 1v1 engagements with BS and came close to dieing quite a few times. I was fighting a cheaply named T1 or half T2 fitted ships and my setup was T2 all the way and im not exactly a nub. If they had invested into a full T2 fit i would die much more often. Eos was not overpowered but with the new changes it will be a useless ship because nobody wants/needs an EW boosting ship.
look, i grant you that i had the wrong missiles, but EVEN, if i had different missiles, and used the ones going to his LOWEST resist, it would still be a 70%+ resist.
i had to use nearly 20 cap recharge 800's just to stay alive, had i not that many in my hold i would have been dead LONG ago.
i was not using vespa's btw, hammerheadII's not that it makes much diff..
my point being, yes i could have had used different missiles, but that would have ment more missiles in the hold, meaning less cap booster charges, meaning less tank meaning dead quicker.
i didnt even get his tank below 80%, so with a 70% resist, maybe, just maybe, id have got him to 50%. ether way he was gonna win.
dont get me wrong, had i turned up with exactly the right loadout, i would have won, or it would have been very close. but in space, in a casual engagement, you dont always have the exact right loadout, so its a good test.
and btw, no-one wants a EW boosting ship? i do - i fly a scorp and all the caldari recons ;) (not that i knew the EOS did that, as before i just put it in the "solo pwn mobile" catagory.
anyhow, its not uber anymore granted, but its not as screwed as your making out, i know many a good pilot who will still make excellent use of one, as i am sure you will if you give it a go.
/Theo.
Fantastic, you were in a PvE fit, he was in a hunting PvP fit, and you lament losing.
I want the same thing, why I should be killed by any PvP ship when doing PvE?
My outfit should always PWN, the enemies should always lose. Balance mean I should be balanced to win.
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vipeer
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.12.04 17:51:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: vipeer
Read above post!
1) Just crosstrain the Damnation. You have (should have) t2 armor tank at least, and apparently tank is all that matters for a fleet command ship. And the Damnation has one heck of an armor tank. Should take another month at best.
2) The market as it is would not be a good indicator; much of the recent fluctuation has a lot to do with the nerfs being known.
3) If you knew the Astarte was a better ship, why in the hell did you train for the Eos? Surely it wasn't to run commandlinks, since you considered damage to be above all else.
4) Want a pocket drone carrier? It's called the Ishtar. It also gets a damage bonus to drones.
Yes, CCP needs to take a good look at the Eos. But, posts like yours do little to help our cause.
Eos has always been priced below 100 mill isk in Jita and about 100M in other markets. While Astarte never went below 120Million and it's regular price is about 60% more than Eos. The new developments only turned the Eos price down a bit now. The price not falling sharply can be attributed to the fact Eos costs 75-80M to build so the profit margin is slim as it is and is about to come close to 0.
I already crosstrained for Minmatar command ships and have been seriously pondering training Amarr too. I probably will do it too.
I knew the Astarte was a better ship from the start. The fact i had 5M SP in drones weighed heavily when i pondered which ship to train for. Then i saw Astarte is priced at double the price of the Eos the decision was made.
Before Eos i flew Ishtar and i know what it can do and what it cannot do. I upgraded to an Eos because it was a bigger better and meaner version of the Ishtar. Now a dedicated drone carrier ship has it's drone bay cut by 16% and can only field 3 heavy drones. Thank you very much but i'll pass.
P.s. You should read all my posts in this thread i started and not just one then comment. Afaik this is the only seriou thread on this forum discussing Eos changes. The other two are there to make fun of CCP and vent frustration over it. -------------SIG STARTS HERE------------- Chaining BoBo in south Feyth:
Your Neutron Blaster Cannon II perfectly strikes Dukath [EVOL]<BOB>(Vindicator), wrecking for 741.0 damage. |
Sparticula
Gallente Marines Of A New Dawn Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.10 17:30:00 -
[70]
It's clear from all the discussions on the EOS CCP have dropped a ubber unpopular clanger! The Market prices speak for themselves;
Eos prices 84M-100M Astarte prices 172M - 185M
I even picked one up before Xmas for 78M
I think CCP really should hang it's head in shame, admit the mistake and at least increase the bandwidth back to 125Mbit/sec, in line with the other Gallente drone boats (Ishtar & Domi). They might even see the Eos builders making a profit again not to mention people actually using them again.
Well I'd drink to that.
---------------------------------------------------------- Shin: A popular device for finding furniture in the dark !
$instaDeath = $Skills->Deimos[$Blasters]->Oh****YourScrambled()->ByeBye() |
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.10 19:08:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Sparticula
Well I'd drink to that.
Yeah, have another.
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.01.10 20:42:00 -
[72]
Just change the stupid Ew- Links into Drone Links and be done with it. Plus Drone Speed, HP and Damage, 2% each.
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Rogerano
Minmatar Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2008.01.11 00:41:00 -
[73]
Gank links which boost dps? lolyeahright. --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause. |
SpoonBender79
The Phoenix Rising
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Posted - 2008.01.11 09:27:00 -
[74]
Fact that Eos got nerfed was not fun, but it DOES bring it in line with other fleet command ships. It is supposed to use Gang mods... It suppose to use 3 of them... It suppose to be in the back of the fleet...
Compare it to teh Vulture... Vulture is crap at dealign damage, but has a very respectable tank. Yet the Nighthawk outdamages it in every way... same (now) as the Astarte does with the Eos.
Regarding the prices... they are not set by CCP, but due to player behavior. Eos got less popular so prices drop... Astarte is next best thing, so prices rise.
I must confess I havent read the entire thread (too much work :P), but this reflects my oppinion and I believe that this is also what CCP had in mind when tehy changed it.
My Advice... get an Astarte, they are still one of the best ships in it's class around.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.11 09:50:00 -
[75]
Originally by: SpoonBender79 Fact that Eos got nerfed was not fun, but it DOES bring it in line with other fleet command ships. It is supposed to use Gang mods... It suppose to use 3 of them... It suppose to be in the back of the fleet...
Compare it to teh Vulture... Vulture is crap at dealign damage, but has a very respectable tank. Yet the Nighthawk outdamages it in every way... same (now) as the Astarte does with the Eos.
Regarding the prices... they are not set by CCP, but due to player behavior. Eos got less popular so prices drop... Astarte is next best thing, so prices rise.
I must confess I havent read the entire thread (too much work :P), but this reflects my oppinion and I believe that this is also what CCP had in mind when tehy changed it.
My Advice... get an Astarte, they are still one of the best ships in it's class around.
the "problem" is that the gang modules bonused on the EOS have little use in gang warfare and most ships using them are faster and more agile than the EOS, so they have little interest in forming a squad with it.
So the EOS has a marginal role in fleet command and now has a marginal role in combat too.
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Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.11 10:40:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Perry Just change the stupid Ew- Links into Drone Links and be done with it. Plus Drone Speed, HP and Damage, 2% each.
this sounds good... but i would like a boost to ew & logistic drones too...
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Sparticula
Gallente Marines Of A New Dawn Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.11 11:21:00 -
[77]
Originally by: SpoonBender79 Fact that Eos got nerfed was not fun, but it DOES bring it in line with other fleet command ships. . . . .
My Advice... get an Astarte, they are still one of the best ships in it's class around.
Every other Fleet Command ship can fill its highs with weapons except the EOS, so that's not in-line with the other FC ships.
Point taken on the Astarte, it is an awesome ship ;).
But the Brutix and Myrmidon are looking a lot more attractive than the EOS at the moment, there's not many (if at all any) T1 variants that can out Gun their T2 equivalent now is there? and the DPS on the Myrmidon is awesome in comparison -; are CCP gonna nerf that as well??, sorry they already did. . . $instaDeath = $Skills->Deimos[$Blasters]->Oh****YourScrambled()->ByeBye() |
WattIsWacken
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.11 12:47:00 -
[78]
Edited by: WattIsWacken on 11/01/2008 12:48:19
Originally by: Sparticula Every other Fleet Command ship can fill its highs with weapons except the EOS, so that's not in-line with the other FC ships.
Claymore can also fit 5 guns only. Damnation/Vulture have to use missiles + guns to fill its highs with weapons. they also have no damage bonus, so where is the problem?
------------- [VIDEO] LOL |
Sparticula
Gallente Marines Of A New Dawn Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.11 14:45:00 -
[79]
Originally by: WattIsWacken Edited by: WattIsWacken on 11/01/2008 12:48:19
Originally by: Sparticula Every other Fleet Command ship can fill its highs with weapons except the EOS, so that's not in-line with the other FC ships.
Claymore can also fit 5 guns only. Damnation/Vulture have to use missiles + guns to fill its highs with weapons. they also have no damage bonus, so where is the problem?
Try the problem being that the; Claymore can fit 5 guns & 3 Launchers (thats 8 if my maths is any good) Damnation has 4 gun turrets and 5 launcher Hardpoints (for 7 highs) Vulturer can fit 5 turrets / 5 launchers (with again 7 Highs)
So I guess the problem is the Vulture and Damnation can fit 2 extra weapons and the Claymore 3 extra weapons. Not exactly a trivial difference is it. And you dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure out 8 x T2 weapons out damage the Eos's 5 x T2 weapons (with a 5% damage bonus /BC lvl) any day of the week, hell even 7 do.
Hey, if you could fit 2 Launchers on the Eos I'd have no arguement but you cant, so I guess that's where the problem is.
---------------------------------------------------------- Shin: A popular device for finding furniture in the dark !
$instaDeath = $Skills->Deimos[$Blasters]->Oh****YourScrambled()->ByeBye() |
WattIsWacken
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.11 15:31:00 -
[80]
counting pure number of guns is just stupid. you have take drones into account as well.
------------- [VIDEO] LOL |
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Sparticula
Gallente Marines Of A New Dawn Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.11 15:43:00 -
[81]
Originally by: WattIsWacken counting pure number of guns is just stupid. you have take drones into account as well.
Ok then;
The Eos can field 5 T2 Meds (and generally WILL) or 3 T2 heavies (which not many people can use)
Your Claymore can field 4 T2 Meds as well as 8 high slots. . . . is counting gun stupid now eh?
---------------------------------------------------------- Shin: A popular device for finding furniture in the dark !
$instaDeath = $Skills->Deimos[$Blasters]->Oh****YourScrambled()->ByeBye() |
WattIsWacken
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.11 16:16:00 -
[82]
Quote: is counting gun stupid now eh?
yes, because in practice noone fits 3 launchers on a claymore or 3 additional guns on a damnation. if they do so, they should die horribly in it.
if you want dmg, go for field command, its that simple
------------- [VIDEO] LOL |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2008.01.12 05:58:00 -
[83]
its in balance, stop whining.. I declare war on stupidity |
V0idz
Herrscher der Zeit
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Posted - 2008.01.12 09:29:00 -
[84]
with useless bonuses, its not _____________________________________ EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak. |
Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.01.12 09:35:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 12/01/2008 09:35:13
Ccp hates drones now. It cause LAG. Instead of buying new server stuff with your money, they nerf.
Yeah, it's nerf or nothing.
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Sparticula
Gallente Marines Of A New Dawn Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: WattIsWacken
Quote: is counting gun stupid now eh?
yes, because in practice noone fits 3 launchers on a claymore or 3 additional guns on a damnation. if they do so, they should die horribly in it.
if you want dmg, go for field command, its that simple
In practice wtf? you never heard of a gank setup? you really should un-dock more often lol. Point being the Claymore and the othe FC's can now do it far better than the Eos cos they can actually fill all their Highs with those things called weapons, regardless if they do or don't they have the option to. Eos can't.
Like someone pointed out earlier you can 90% guarantee what setup any Eos is gonna have now and Gank isnt one of them.
---------------------------------------------------------- Shin: A popular device for finding furniture in the dark !
$instaDeath = $Skills->Deimos[$Blasters]->Oh****YourScrambled()->ByeBye() |
Sparticula
Gallente Marines Of A New Dawn Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:42:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Buyerr its in balance, stop whining..
Well your thank you for your stupendous input, you really did raise some fantastic countering points there. So much so that I can now see every point I raised, as well as the others on this thread, have been totally unwarranted. How foolish we were.
On behalf of everyone paying at least some attention to the thread 'subject' matter we sincerely apologies.
Your wisdom is beyond doubt. Bless ya!
---------------------------------------------------------- Shin: A popular device for finding furniture in the dark !
$instaDeath = $Skills->Deimos[$Blasters]->Oh****YourScrambled()->ByeBye() |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:07:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Sparticula
Originally by: WattIsWacken
Quote: is counting gun stupid now eh?
yes, because in practice noone fits 3 launchers on a claymore or 3 additional guns on a damnation. if they do so, they should die horribly in it.
if you want dmg, go for field command, its that simple
In practice wtf? you never heard of a gank setup? you really should un-dock more often lol. Point being the Claymore and the othe FC's can now do it far better than the Eos cos they can actually fill all their Highs with those things called weapons, regardless if they do or don't they have the option to. Eos can't.
Like someone pointed out earlier you can 90% guarantee what setup any Eos is gonna have now and Gank isnt one of them.
There is some flaw in Watt logic. The EOS was overpowered as it could fit 7 guns, but it is not opverpowered when the other fleet commanders can fit 7 or 8 between guns and missiles?
The "other" fleet commander would not fit the extra slots with weapons, but the EFT warriors that found the EOS overpovered would alwais fill those slots with weapons?
So what is the reasoning there? The EOS bonus for the command modules is so disgusting that no one would use it for them, while the bonus of the other fleet commanders is so good that someone not using it should die orribly?
And that is balanced?
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WattIsWacken
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.12 16:30:00 -
[89]
Quote: The EOS bonus for the command modules is so disgusting that no one would use it for them, while the bonus of the other fleet commanders is so good that someone not using it should die orribly?
i agree with you there. i didnt actually take this into account. but does that legitimate the eos to have 7 guns + 5 heavy drones + nasty tank?
i think, no! every race got its individual bonuses, live with that. if you dont like/use the ships bonuses, use another ship. i personally dont like some minmatar ships because they dont fit my playstyle.
i also lol'ed about this:
Quote: In practice wtf? you never heard of a gank setup?
give me a fleet command setup (any race) thats viable for ganking purposes
------------- [VIDEO] LOL |
Sparticula
Gallente Marines Of A New Dawn Yarrbear Equity and Trade Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.12 17:45:00 -
[90]
Originally by: WattIsWacken
Quote: i agree with you there. i didnt actually take this into account. but does that legitimate the eos to have 7 guns + 5 heavy drones + nasty tank?
Yes 7 guns + 5 heavies is overpowered but thats not what I'm asking for. I'd be happy with either 7 guns & 3 heavies or 5 guns with 5 heavies. The double Nerfing on guns and drones + the crap links bonus is dire.
Quote: give me a fleet command setup (any race) thats viable for ganking purposes
thats easy :)
Step 1 fit web/scram any EW that takes you fancy Step 2 fit lots of weapons (important!) Step 3 fit lots of Damage mods Step 4 fit damage rigs Step 5 use ubber DPS on victim for a wtf pwnage
Trawl through this is your stuck; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=571635#19
---------------------------------------------------------- Shin: A popular device for finding furniture in the dark !
$instaDeath = $Skills->Deimos[$Blasters]->Oh****YourScrambled()->ByeBye() |
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