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Alliance Tournament V - hopes & fears

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Zapatero	Posted - 2007.12.03 23:30:00 - [1] No, this isn't an announcement, that will have to come some other time from GM Nova. What I'm doing is writing a short piece for the next EON on what may be in store when the Fifth Alliance Tournament kicks of next year. Can any alliances confirm that they'll be taking part? What rule changes would you like to see? Who might your favourites be (if they enter)? I think it's safe to say that the points cost of faction ships will be tweaked, but does anyone have any thoughts on how the new Tech-2 battleships and other Trinity ships might fare? - Z

Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:31:00 - [2] Think I'll wait with baited breath to see what the rules are like first >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Calmdown Minmatar BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:01:00 - [3] Originally by: Verone Think I'll wait with baited breath to see what the rules are like first And also to see how it's going to be covered, because if it isn't proper Eve TV then tbh I doubt it'll be worth watching. http://www.save-evetv.com/
Tigertex Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Calmdown Originally by: Verone Think I'll wait with baited breath to see what the rules are like first And also to see how it's going to be covered, because if it isn't proper Eve TV then tbh I doubt it'll be worth watching. the tournament was covered before EVETV became what it was, so i would fully expect to see something along those lines to be used to cover the 5th Tournament
Tigertex Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:13:00 - [5] The Five Alliance will be putting forward an application to take part in the next Tournament. After reviewing the enter criteria. The points system is the only thing that I can imagine that will change. Some of the aspects that where introduced into the last tournament has allowed a little bit of luck to come into the tournament. This I think is good for the tournament, as teams have to find a number of setups if they are to be successful. To be honest I think the points system needs work. This is based on two particular reasons; firstly I believe that some ships have been given too many or in some cases too few points, and secondly we want to see a new tournament not just the last tournament repeated therefore a change in the points system along with the new ships will facilities this. I am not going to go though the whole points system, but I will point out a few that I think needs changed. Faction ships need to be less points, they almost totally disappeared in the last tournament due to their extreme point value, this was very disappoint, in pervious tournaments they where in nearly every team. There needs to be separation in points for the different battleship tiers, it is unrealistic to assume that the tier 1 battleships give the same ôbonusesö as tier 2 or tier3, for example a Typhoon will not do the same damage as a Tempest. Is a command ship really worth the same number of points as a battleship? Tech 1 cruisers are too few points, not by much in my opinion but maybe some minor changes to them. Stealth bombers where probably the least balance ship on the points system, when you look at their points to damage ratio it does make them overpowered. However they where only used effectively by 1 team. As much as I think some ships are under valued or over valued, the main reason why the points system needs changed is to allow different setups to appear, otherwise we will end up with each team fielding 7 stealth bombers, 2 logistics and 1 recon. I found it very disappointing that there was so few faction ships used and now with the introduction of the T2 battleships which are probably better that the faction battleships this is an area that has to be carefully looked at (personally I would like to see CCP look at redesigning the faction ships in line now with their T2 counterparts, but that is a for a different discussion). As far as the tournament is concerned the main T2 battleships that will be used will be the Marauders as I donÆt believe that the Black Ops will be seen in major force. This not due to the training aspects but more to the bonuses, hence making the Marauder class ships more valuable to the teams. The T2 Battleships will offer about the same amount of damage or a little bit more, but their main plus points will be their ability to have ôsupportö modules fitted and a better tank. These ships will offer a lot on options to teams that decide to field them. I would imagine that most teams will be looking for ways to include them in their setups and will have pilots training hard for these ships. With the next tournament over 2 months away (or so it is rumoured) you can exact to see maxed marauder pilots in the tournament, as long as the points for these ships is not too great. While the new battleships will offer some nice new toys it is the introduction of the new frigate classes that I believe will be the most interesting and allow the teams a lot more options. I believe that the frigates will once again be filling the jamming and dampening roles and their survival or destruction will determine the outcome of many of the fights. The tournament is about different setups being fielded and expensive ships being blown up are seen as one of the fun parts of it. So my advice to the organisers would be allow teams to field the expensive ships if they so desired. It would be nice to have to the new rules for the tournament out sooner rather than later.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:22:00 - [6] I'm sure myself and my other Morsus Mihi teammates will be there, as usual. As for the changes i'd like to see, well the main one would be a player committee in charge of making the rules, instead of GM Nova. The last tournament's rules were somewhat out there, with basic screwups such as points cost evident. A return to the older rules and decrease in (essentially) required team members would be something I'd approve of. The 4th tournament had so many ways of doing things, it became whack-a-mole. If X team came in with a strategy that happened to beat Y team, then Y team were screwed because you can't plan for that many strategies. Regardless of any of that, the tournament is in my blood, as it is with many of the team. So we'll be there, write that down on EON, and that we're going to be coming to win it
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 19:30:00 - [7] No idea whether my alliance will be taking part, but I have a couple of rule changes the organisers may wish to consider. First, reduce the time for each round - the 'OMGtotalhelldeath' (TM) points bonus was kinda irrelevant in the last tourney because nearly every fight resulted in one team being annihilated anyway. If this was introduced you may wish to consider increasing the points bonus for a complete wipe-out to better reward teams that crush their opponents in the reduced time available. Second, allow on-grid warping (and only on-grid warping), with a handful of anchored containers or other such items on the battlefield to act as warp-in points. One aspect of the last tourney which skewed the nature of the combat away from "real world" PvP was the fact that dedicated tacklers were no longer needed to warp scramble enemy craft and stop them escaping (which was probably one of the reasons there were so many griffons and mauluses all over the place and so few of the other frigate types). Bringing this critical aspect of Eve warfare to the tournament would be most welcome.
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Calmdown Originally by: Verone Think I'll wait with baited breath to see what the rules are like first And also to see how it's going to be covered, because if it isn't proper Eve TV then tbh I doubt it'll be worth watching. ^^ What that man said. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Rionus	Posted - 2007.12.06 02:15:00 - [9] Totalhelldeath should only happen if you don't lose a ship while killing all of your enemies. Otherwise pretty much everyone gets THD. There have been lots of good suggestions in other posts, perhaps you should look at them (or have some sucker find them for you )

Zapatero	Posted - 2007.12.06 11:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Calmdown Originally by: Verone Think I'll wait with baited breath to see what the rules are like first And also to see how it's going to be covered, because if it isn't proper Eve TV then tbh I doubt it'll be worth watching. ^^ What that man said. If evetv aren't covering it, I doubt anyone will be watching it - unless Sky Sports is bidding for exclusivity and not told me about it - Z

Tigertex Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:45:00 - [11] Allow rigs, as this should allow more variations. This may mean the remvoal of Implants, but personally i would like to see both. And i hope if Sky Sports takes over its not PPV lol
ookke TALON'S GRIP	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:59:00 - [12] I'd like to see someone else organize it, GM Nova was fairly disappointing last time. The general rules weren't half bad, but the point system had some major flaws. Faction BS were too expensive and stealth bombers way too cheap point wise. Interdictors were also a bit "overpriced" considering you couldn't use them for what they were made for. Also gief warping inside arena this time if you plan on long-ish starting ranges. Oh and rigs please, still don't see why they weren't allowed in the last one.
DeddyMassive TALON'S GRIP	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:48:00 - [13] Points for diff ships need tweaking of course. Some limitation on ship use so we don't have cheap looking stealth bomber spams (and next time EW frigs).. 3rd tourney 1 BS, 1 BC, 1 CR etc thing was good, but a little limiting. Maybe somwthing like 100 points.. max 50% on any class of ship. Kinda also like to see logistics cruisers & drones given the elbow.. maybe increase the pace of the fights. Cosmos mods could do with going in.. Meh to 'a couple of them are overpowered so ALL of them can't be used excuse'. Have I mention recently I've got an Impoc killmail
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.08 14:50:00 - [14] Adjust the point scores to include more ships. I want to see 10 v 10 fights, that was awesome. Perhaps different divisions; the Main Event - 100 point scores was excellent. Make it more like normal pvp, no warp outs but warping within the boundaries of the arena so that tackling is necessary; in that way the uber dampening and jamming that has been seen before will only get you so far. What about other divisions, like boxing - Small ships for cruisers, af's, friggies etc (points restricted), and then a tactical environment like say, a 10 v 10 gate camp, both sides jump into each other with 10 mins to prepare their camp. The side with the most points killed wins. All rules should be open; implants, officer mods, rigs including podding. The reward should be faction aligned or drawn from the loyalty points or even blue print copies of anything you desire, limited runs with good pe and me.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.08 18:49:00 - [15] Quote: Make it more like normal pvp Why? Normal PvP is more luck than anything else. If anything they need to take away a lot of the fancy stuff they put in the last tournament, and make it more like Gladiator combat. No warping out, no ECM or dampening etc. Hvae a small arena with both teams starting the same distance apart each match and just have a gank fest. Basically go back to the layout of the second tournament. That was the fun tourney I've taken part in.
Gnarrkilly Damned Legion Mournival Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.10 11:38:00 - [16] Were always up for a challenge. We'll be there. ------------- Gnarrkilly - Ceo Damned Legion - Recruitment Open "Reasonably priced brutality"
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:34:00 - [17] We just need to form an alliance, but expect us to be there . I'll kick my people's collective ass if we don't. Say no to knee-jerk additions and nerfs, mmkay?
DamienUPB Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:02:00 - [18] Not sure if we will be allowed to compete again. If we are we'll whip something together. I wouldn't mind seeing boosters and rigs added. An adjustment to the points is needed but I think ecm and the like should be kept. I don't wish to see just a caveman type of clubbing fest. ECM, Dampers, etc. bring some interesting tactical setups. I did like the idea of two tournament classes. Possibly a poor man's alliance tier with tech 1 ships, no implants, no rigs, no faction mods and then an Elite tier where anything goes. Make the risk of isk worth the reward for each of the tiers. An alliance should only be allowed to sign up for one or the other. Also I wouldn't mind more clarity and openness from the people running the event. This caused quite a few issues and some nasty flame wars, which I believe all involved would like to avoid. Also if you could schedule for only the weekends as many had to take off work etc. And lastly don't run 2 fights in one system.
Ohne Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:42:00 - [19] The point system last time was ok to a certain extent. Faction ships needed tweaking, and all t2 frigs had the same points. (af¦s, ceptors and stealth bombers beeing very different from each other, and now ew frigs) A rule that would make things very intresting would be no more than 1 ship of each type. Also allow rigs and implants.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:03:00 - [20] well my biggest issue was that the semifinals and finals were done in a few minutes either give 200 points for the simis and 300 points for the finals or make it 2 out of 3 _______________________________________________ EVEpedia[Deutsch] Sign this to bring EvE TV back
MrBadidea Caldari Applied Eugenics Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:46:00 - [21] I'd love to see the return of shiney itamz... but now that I've seen what a Golem can do with a pimp fit, I'm not so sure thats a good idea --- MrBadidea's ePeen strikes YOUR EGO Wrecking for EMOCIDE
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:56:00 - [22] Star Fraction will certainly be back. We're big fans of the alliance tournament and feel it does a lot of the game. Regarding changes ... I really wish that implants were out (or allow podding) - and rigs were in. I find that ability to use advantages that cannot be destroyed in the tournament detract from the balance of the thing. Rigs are fine because they get blown up on the ship that dies. Otherwise, I really liked the 4th alliance tournament, It certainly doesn't need to get more "pvp like" because thats not the point. And ideas like allowing in arena warping would just suck for the spectacle of the thing. Also, I do agree, "totalhelldeath" should probably be for a "flawless victory" not just killing all the enemy ships. War Diary : Operation Terminus Est
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2007.12.17 14:11:00 - [23] I think T2 battleships will be excellent for the TV but not so good for the alliances. As they will quickly get ECMed and exploded to our amusement
Denton Frost Amarr KSI	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:26:00 - [24] hopes = pew pew fears = tank fests / jamming fests / damp fests
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.17 21:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Denton Frost hopes = pew pew fears = tank fests / jamming fests / damp fests Is that the view of a pilot or a viewer? Because most Tourney battles that result in much pew pew and explosions are usually bad for the pilots. The ideal strategy is to kill as much as possible with as little risk as possible, which may not always make for great viewing, but that is ahrdly of concern to the pilots.
Setanta NaFianna FinFleet	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:44:00 - [26] Anyone else think the t2 EW frigs should have the highest points of their class?
Draekas Darkwater Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.12.20 05:58:00 - [27] I can't say I'm super experienced with PvP or anything, but in general I find that point systems are just not very good. Ship "value" is extremely subjective, and not easily quantified. Now that there are T2 varients of all ship classes, what about just limiting it by ship classes and pilots instead? Something like, one of each T1 and T2 ship class. So one T1 BS, one T1 BC, one T1 cruiser, and one T1 Frigate. As well as one T2/faction BS, one command ship, one T2/faction cruiser, and one T2/faction frigate. You can choose to substitute a T2/faction slot, for a T1 slot, but can't have two T2 ships of the same class. Would seem more fair to me than a points system, but then again, I'll just be a viewer. =D
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.22 16:40:00 - [28] Edited by: Heartstone on 22/12/2007 16:40:49 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Star Fraction will certainly be back. We're big fans of the alliance tournament and feel it does a lot of the game. Yeap what Jade said. Unfortuntly the dates decided for the first week of the Alliance Tournament directly clashes with Star Fractions Meetup in Amsterdam. Dates for our meet up have been announced for on these very forums since the 6th of December in a stickied topic no less and the clash has annoyed a few of us to say the least. As many of us have already booked flights and hotel rooms we can't really do much about it now other than hope the Dev's in charge will take pity on us. So the Star Fraction team may be a bit light on people available for it As far as the rules goes the last tournamnet seemed to work okay on the whole (apart from the obvious issues) so with a small bit of tweaking rather than a wide ranging change it should be good to go. ---
Caledric Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.23 16:27:00 - [29] Will the prizes actually be honored this year? Or will it once again be based off the Devs' feelings towards certain corps/alliances? EVE Vault Site Manager. Visit the EVE Vault Fansite
LoggingSoon Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.24 19:10:00 - [30]

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