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Anytime Baby	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:33:00 - [1] I have been reading about bandwidth and noticing the trend of everything being brought "in line" with everything else, which is making ships less unique. One of the last ships to really emphasize drones is the ishtar, which is way out of line by the bandwidth standards. Is there a plan to reduce the amount of drones deployable by the ishtar or will it actually be allowed to be effective? As it stands, the ship can deploy 5 heavies at a time with a dominix-sized drone bay...this was apparently too much for the eos and the myrmidon...what's the story? Thanks
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:37:00 - [2] Myrm -> T1 ship BC sized anyone can easily get. EOS -> fleet command ship not combat or damage oriented Ishtar -> T2 specialised drone ship Where is the problem ?
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:37:00 - [3] Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Almarez Setenta Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. FREE STONY Brought to you by the Free Stony Foundation. Saving a Stony near you. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:56:00 - [5] Edited by: Cadiz on 04/12/2007 20:56:13 Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. Try this on for size, then - Ishtar is untouched because it is one of the nanoable HACs, and everybody knows CCP refuses to nerf non-BS nanoships. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
TimMc Gallente Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:09:00 - [6] Originally by: Cadiz Edited by: Cadiz on 04/12/2007 20:56:13 Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. Try this on for size, then - Ishtar is untouched because it is one of the nanoable HACs, and everybody knows CCP refuses to nerf non-BS nanoships. Thats cause CCP fly them. Jita: No one gets out alive.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. And Vagabond is a speed demon with low DPS for a HAC. The Cerberus is a pretty good tank + pretty good DPS. The Amarr HACs are good DPS + range. They all have strengths and weaknesses...what's your point? Gallente always have been the Drone+DPS race. Yet you act surprised... Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes If you'd suicide gank yourself for what you're hauling, don't.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:13:00 - [8] Edited by: Trevor Warps on 04/12/2007 21:13:57 The only thing that makes it good is the option to nano it, and this tactic got a spanner thrown at it with the new EW frig that webs at like 20km. And besides, it only got 3 turrets hardpoints and low powergrid, so you aint going to get a that crazy dmg with it without at least sacrificing everything else.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. yes, like 3 bonused blasters can increase massively the ship's firepower. --- planetary interaction idea!
Dismus Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:22:00 - [10] Oh, but they do! And they make purple elephants fly around your ship while doing so! It's spectacular!!!! Originally by: Draeca Domi isn't ugly, it actually looks quite symphatic. I mean, a crossbreed of a whale and a potato.. Now how cute is that?
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:22:00 - [11] if this ship has to get nerfed I would much rather see it be less nanoable then loose its drones. its a drone boat that specs in drones it should be good with em.
Oam Mkoll Caldari HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Almarez I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. You do realize, that one ship has to have THE HIGHEST damage and there needs to be one with THE LOWEST damage? Unless we want an 'equal' eve with identical, generic ships. --- I am violence boat
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Oam Mkoll Originally by: Almarez I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. You do realize, that one ship has to have THE HIGHEST damage and there needs to be one with THE LOWEST damage? Unless we want an 'equal' eve with identical, generic ships. lol ! nice
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:33:00 - [14] Well, it does theoretically do BS damage! ... assuming the BS in question is a Dominix with no guns. Then again, in that case I can get more damage with a Vexor, Thorax, Brutix ...
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Well, it does theoretically do BS damage! ... assuming the BS in question is a Dominix with no guns. Then again, in that case I can get more damage with a Vexor, Thorax, Brutix ... yeah and to reach that theoredical BS level DPS you need to use T2 ogres that are not THAT fast and totally gimp your setup to fit 3 mag stabs and 3 T2 neutron blasters. --- planetary interaction idea!
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Trevor Warps The only thing that makes it good is the option to nano it, and this tactic got a spanner thrown at it with the new EW frig that webs at like 20km. Beauty of the nano-Ishtar is that it doesn't really have to get in that close to engage, unlike the Vagabond. If it likes, it can just skirt in closeish, drop off drones & sic 'em, and then zip away to 50+ klicks and let the drones do their work, provided somebody else has got the scramming sorted. No reason to stay close and play the scoop/unscoop game now. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Cadiz Originally by: Trevor Warps The only thing that makes it good is the option to nano it, and this tactic got a spanner thrown at it with the new EW frig that webs at like 20km. Beauty of the nano-Ishtar is that it doesn't really have to get in that close to engage, unlike the Vagabond. If it likes, it can just skirt in closeish, drop off drones & sic 'em, and then zip away to 50+ klicks and let the drones do their work, provided somebody else has got the scramming sorted. No reason to stay close and play the scoop/unscoop game now. Well true. But then again you dont even need a nano fit to do that, provided that someones get the webbing sorted ;)
Hans Angry Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.16 17:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. i honestly dont know what your talking about, ive worked out several setups, and so far ive gotten the vagabond, deimos, muninn, hell i even got the eagle to out dps the ishtar
Troye Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2007.12.16 18:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Almarez I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. Where are you getting your information from? _______________________________________________ EVE is dying, we are all doomed...
Sean Faust	Posted - 2007.12.16 19:01:00 - [20] Take a good long look at the Ishtar's bonuses. You'll notice that it doesn't get any boost to DPS over its t1 counterpart, the vexor, and actually has less turret slots. Its entire DPS comes from its ability to field heavy/sentry drones. If they took that away, it would actually be INFERIOR to the vexor dps-wise. So the Ishtar is likely staying as-is then, unless they were to add a second drone damage bonus as a HAC bonus, which at MOST would make its drone dps equivalent to that of unbonused heavies when fielding mediums. The Ishtar is straddling a very thin line as far as where it stands, and any changes made to the ship would likely make it completely unuseable.
joshmorris Ravenous Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.16 19:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Anytime Baby I have been reading about bandwidth and noticing the trend of everything being brought "in line" with everything else, which is making ships less unique. One of the last ships to really emphasize drones is the ishtar, which is way out of line by the bandwidth standards. Is there a plan to reduce the amount of drones deployable by the ishtar or will it actually be allowed to be effective? As it stands, the ship can deploy 5 heavies at a time with a dominix-sized drone bay...this was apparently too much for the eos and the myrmidon...what's the story? Thanks It costs more than a dominix aswell with alot less hp, cap powergrid and cpu do you also propose a buff for them areas ? Uber idea solves all !!
Sean Faust	Posted - 2007.12.16 19:17:00 - [22] Take a good long look at the Ishtar's bonuses. You'll notice that it doesn't get any boost to DPS over its t1 counterpart, the vexor, and actually has less turret slots. Its entire DPS comes from its ability to field heavy/sentry drones. If they took that away, it would actually be INFERIOR to the vexor dps-wise. So the Ishtar is likely staying as-is then, unless they were to add a second drone damage bonus as a HAC bonus, which at MOST would make its drone dps equivalent to that of unbonused heavies when fielding mediums. The Ishtar is straddling a very thin line as far as where it stands, and any changes made to the ship would likely make it completely unuseable.
Earl Black	Posted - 2007.12.16 20:33:00 - [23] If you check it out properly you will see the Ishtar is spos to get 10% damage to drones but a quick search will show this was fixed, It only get 5% drone damage. This along with a cpu shortage means its very hard to fit, so the ability to field a set of heavy drones brings it up to HAC status, one good point is that it can be shield tanked or armor tanked, but kill its drones and you have one dead HAC.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.16 21:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. You can't make a HAC do over 450 dps? --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.12.16 21:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Cadiz Ishtar is untouched, as it does not do noticeably more DPS than the other ships in its class. Both the Eos and the Myrmidon were pretty conspicious in their damage output superiority over their kin, or at least so goes the story. I disagree, the Ishtar does more damage that just about all of it's counterparts with drones alone. Throw in some blasters and it really does do BS damage. yes.. and shoot it whit a few guns and is dies like a paper bag. nano ishtars are a joke if you know what to do against them.. especially missile ships. i have a nano ishtar.... stopped flying it 2 days later... because the drones where getting too expencive :P ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
MercedesBenz House Of Cards	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Anytime Baby I have been reading about bandwidth and noticing the trend of everything being brought "in line" with everything else, which is making ships less unique. One of the last ships to really emphasize drones is the ishtar, which is way out of line by the bandwidth standards. Is there a plan to reduce the amount of drones deployable by the ishtar or will it actually be allowed to be effective? As it stands, the ship can deploy 5 heavies at a time with a dominix-sized drone bay...this was apparently too much for the eos and the myrmidon...what's the story? Thanks OMG, you ****, read the freaken patch notes, sorry I don't normally troll the forums but you make it so difficult in this case, ishtar is a drone boat, CCP saw to it keeping it's drone bandwith on perpose, they even mentionned that it would be an exception the bandwith deployment (syntax?). The Ishtar's only real weapons are drones, trying to fit anything other than small guns in the highs seriously compromises the ships tanking ability, unlike other HAC's that can fit guns for its class, use drones and tank well. Secondly, if you're posting this because you had an unfortunate run-in with a hostile ishtar and you're made cuz you lost your ship, get over it. You do have options when it comes to fighting these ships 1) Avoid then in the 1st place (seem them on scanners in low sec or 0.0 you can safe or dock) 2) Kill their drones if you do happen to engage one. 3) Or you can just quit eve (Give me your stuff if you take this route). P.S. Again, read the **'en patch notes before allowing your ass to talk for you.
Necromancer D Round Table Enterprises DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Anytime Baby I have been reading about bandwidth and noticing the trend of everything being brought "in line" with everything else, which is making ships less unique. One of the last ships to really emphasize drones is the ishtar, which is way out of line by the bandwidth standards. Is there a plan to reduce the amount of drones deployable by the ishtar or will it actually be allowed to be effective? As it stands, the ship can deploy 5 heavies at a time with a dominix-sized drone bay...this was apparently too much for the eos and the myrmidon...what's the story? Thanks Fail.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:52:00 - [28] Ishtar gives up alot to field its heavy drones....it loses turret hardpoints from its t1 base, has low powergrid. While it has t2 resists, it has low base hit points, and few slots to tank with. Compare this to the myrm and Eos, which gave up very little to field their drones. Heck, the Eos had SEVEN bonused turrets, compared to its counterparts FIVE, AND THEN it also have 5x heavy drones. Ishtar is fine. Its hard to kill when nano, but when its out flying around 50km away, theres nothing it can do to protect its drones. It can still kill most ships if it puts forth the effort, those same ships can force it to run. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
McClan Caldari The Nightcrawlers	Posted - 2007.12.17 22:35:00 - [29] The Ishtar need some fitting love as you cant fit 4 med guns and Armor repair, ab at the sametime.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Brute Strength	Posted - 2007.12.17 23:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Earl Black If you check it out properly you will see the Ishtar is spos to get 10% damage to drones but a quick search will show this was fixed, It only get 5% drone damage. Wait, what? I don't see any evidence of that anywhere. That would be QUITE interesting to know.

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