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'Backdating' Lapsed skill training time.

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Amy Amarr The Vogon Poet's Armada Punch Drunk Lemmings 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 18:56:00 - [1] - Quote Hey there folks! GM Arcade informed me that my idea should be posted on the forums. My idea is that you are able to 'back date' your characters lapsed skill training time, Either by paying subscription to recieve the lost SP or by another means. In this way you are able to 'catch up' with other characters of your year e.t.c. For example; If you are a 2006 character and you were inactive for three years due to financial problems e.t.c. Your character could easily be tens of millions of SP behind others 'Born' at the same time as you. The way I see it is that with 'Back dating' you could pay a subscription or something similar to that ilk and receive your 'lost' SP. For example; You could pay a 'subscription' of say 3 months and in turn receive 3 months of your lost SP in bulk to spread where you would like in the way it was done when Learning Skills were abolished. I also think that these 'subscriptions' should be able to go down to hours minutes and seconds. Perhaps a way to track your inactivity and have a 'reclaimable balance' of sorts could be created. Thus enabling you to reclaim every single 'lost' skill point. Let me know what you guys think.
Faile Nightsong DSB Enterprises 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:06:00 - [2] - Quote I wholeheartedly support and affirm this concept. Most importantly, I believe CCP could get a huge profit boost from it, and in return we wouldn't have an openended situation where people could just throw cash at skill points.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 6024	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:07:00 - [3] - Quote I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
The Riddickman Misadventures in Cake Eating 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:13:00 - [4] - Quote I don't really care either way if this is implemented. My only concern is that it must be bought w/ cold hard real world cash. Plex prices are high enough already, the last thing we need is even higher demand for the stuff.
ShipToaster 130	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:21:00 - [5] - Quote Not this again. You were trolled by GM Arcade who just wanted rid of you. Incursion math? part 1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=678400#post678400 part 2 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=698871#post698871
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1060	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:22:00 - [6] - Quote Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. If I could like this more than once, I would. No to buying SP in any form or fashion.
mxzf Shovel Bros 445	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:27:00 - [7] - Quote So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets. Yeah, no, if you can't pay for the account, you don't train, no 'backdating' SP. If you can do that then I demand the ability to backdate education in RL, so the people who skipped college to work can instantly catch back up with everyone else their age. Oh ... wait ... learning doesn't work that way ... (yeah, it is a RL->Eve analogy, but it does point out how stupid the concept is)
Amy Amarr The Vogon Poet's Armada Punch Drunk Lemmings 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:39:00 - [8] - Quote mxzf wrote: So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets. In response to this I can think of a couple of things. One being that you restrict the age of characters being able to use it. Problem with that is as you said 'waiting'. Other idea is that there's a Skill training speed penalty if you use the SP backdating to acquire the missing Skill points. Such as; If you bought your 'missing' SP back you take a hit to the SP speed dropping it to something like normal Skill speed if you're using +4 implants. As then people would only do such a thing if they deem it 'vital or necessary '. Just to clarify this point. I mean a permanent SP speed hit from then onwards for say the duration of the amount of time you 'reclaimed' from being inactive or even permanent indefinitely
mxzf Shovel Bros 445	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:45:00 - [9] - Quote Amy Amarr wrote: mxzf wrote: So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets. In response to this I can think of a couple of things. One being that you restrict the age of characters being able to use it. Problem with that is as you said 'waiting'. Other idea is that there's a Skill training speed penalty if you use the SP backdating to acquire the missing Skill points. Such as; If you bought your 'missing' SP back you take a hit to the SP speed dropping it to something like normal Skill speed if you're using +4 implants. As then people would only do such a thing if they deem it 'vital or necessary '. Just to clarify this point. I mean a permanent SP speed hit from then onwards for say the duration of the amount of time you 'reclaimed' from being inactive or even permanent indefinitely Nothing you've said prevents it from being badly exploited.
Mangren Skor DSB Enterprises 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:49:00 - [10] - Quote The issue isn't whether or not people would do things like pay for one month trials and hold them for 2 years and then reactivate and sell them... The question is would it break the game ? It would generate additional revenue for CCP, it would definitely affect the market for PLEX if you could buy 30 days of backdated skill training for old accounts with a PLEX. Obviously it would have to be done based on current Attribute Mapping, and probably without current implants. As getting them after the fact would be ... The argument could be made that a clone was sitting in station for that time, with a skill training queue that had been sitting and got pulled out after the fact. What about 2 PLEX for per 30 day boost to an old character? On the market argument, the higher PLEX prices go, the more demand there is for people to purchase PLEX at the going rate in real world currencies, which will bring it back down. Now the downside is that as people get more skills they can turn around and generate more ISK/hour in game. So... hmmmph. It would unbalance the game for new players in a way. But hasn't that always been true? Every day that goes by and you don't have an account training SP, you're falling behind the guy who has an active account. Not sure this changes that aspect dramatically. New accounts will always have that hurdle.
Amy Amarr The Vogon Poet's Armada Punch Drunk Lemmings 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:51:00 - [11] - Quote mxzf wrote: Amy Amarr wrote: mxzf wrote: So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets. In response to this I can think of a couple of things. One being that you restrict the age of characters being able to use it. Problem with that is as you said 'waiting'. Other idea is that there's a Skill training speed penalty if you use the SP backdating to acquire the missing Skill points. Such as; If you bought your 'missing' SP back you take a hit to the SP speed dropping it to something like normal Skill speed if you're using +4 implants. As then people would only do such a thing if they deem it 'vital or necessary '. Just to clarify this point. I mean a permanent SP speed hit from then onwards for say the duration of the amount of time you 'reclaimed' from being inactive or even permanent indefinitely Nothing you've said prevents it from being badly exploited. Perhaps then something a bit more severe such as. You're back on eve. been away long enough to have 'lost' 90m sp but to back date you only receive 30m due to not being active over the time and the other 60m is lost and unredeemable.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 1014	Posted - 2012.02.02 19:56:00 - [12] - Quote Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. You should quit playing EvE then since your subscription essentially buys you time to gain SP and therefor you are buying SP in a form. I still don't think this is a good idea though. That means that account I made back in 2004 that has been dormant since then could be reactivated and I could pay a thousand bucks to get all the SP and assign it how I want. I don't think that would be very good... EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Amy Amarr The Vogon Poet's Armada Punch Drunk Lemmings 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 20:06:00 - [13] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshiz wrote: I still don't think this is a good idea though. That means that account I made back in 2004 that has been dormant since then could be reactivated and I could pay a thousand bucks to get all the SP and assign it how I want. I don't think that would be very good... As i just said above your post. Perhaps incur a 2/3 loss to reclaimable sp. Could even name it 'Capsuleer Sickness' "Due to being in your capsule for a very long period of time you have lost 2/3 of the skill points you could have attained over x amount of time."
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 296	Posted - 2012.02.02 20:07:00 - [14] - Quote Suddenly all my 2005 alts with 200k SP can fly titans.
Xolve The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore 775	Posted - 2012.02.02 20:48:00 - [15] - Quote Feligast wrote: Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. If I could like this more than once, I would. No to buying SP in any form or fashion. Not empty quoting. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator.
Olive Juice 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 20:55:00 - [16] - Quote Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. Except for buying skills that are on a character?
Olive Juice 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 20:57:00 - [17] - Quote mxzf wrote: So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets. Why make trial accounts? You can do this now! Just buy some PLEX, sell it for isk, then buy characters that are skilled!
iNfeck7ed Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn 17	Posted - 2012.02.02 21:15:00 - [18] - Quote Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. quiet peasant, people with jobs who support this game you probably paid your whole eve life with plex which doesn't help ccp advance its software or hardware are thinking, shoosh. support the buying of back-logged sp
mxzf Shovel Bros 447	Posted - 2012.02.02 21:24:00 - [19] - Quote iNfeck7ed wrote: quiet peasant, people with jobs who support this game you probably paid your whole eve life with plex which doesn't help ccp advance its software or hardware are thinking, shoosh. Quoting a self-righteous idiot who doesn't realize that CCP gets MORE money because of people who play the game via PLEX (because CCP gets the money either way and PLEXers are even getting someone else to give CCP cash for them to play, which would be one less subscription otherwise).
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 6028	Posted - 2012.02.02 21:29:00 - [20] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. You should quit playing EvE then since your subscription essentially buys you time to gain SP and therefor you are buying SP in a form. The subscription buys me access to the server. While I had that access, I was able to use my character sheet and train/change skills over that time. Fake edit: You made me laugh though, because I know you were serious. Olive Juice wrote: Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. Except for buying skills that are on a character? Characters bought and sold have had the time spent on them and are the result of choices made over time. The whole point of skill levels, is so you have to decided is it worth train that skill to level 5, or should I train other stuff to level 4? No matter what excuse is used to justify buying SP, it all boils down to the same thing. The removal of those decisions and consequences. Buying a char comes with them, buying SP does not. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Dimitri Jackal School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.02.02 21:29:00 - [21] - Quote Jesus, another moron who thinks that buying SP would EVER be supported by the community. Hell no.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 6028	Posted - 2012.02.02 21:33:00 - [22] - Quote iNfeck7ed wrote: Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. quiet peasant, people with jobs who support this game you probably paid your whole eve life with plex which doesn't help ccp advance its software or hardware are thinking, shoosh. support the buying of back-logged sp Good god, is that the best you can do? Come out with some ad hominem to justify what is and always will be, a bad idea? CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Grimdragon420 HotRock Mining PLC Punch Drunk Lemmings 0	Posted - 2012.02.03 04:38:00 - [23] - Quote I support it as a 2008 character with 17.6 million SP. Maybe they just limit it to main characters with at least 1 yr of SP?
Amy Amarr The Vogon Poet's Armada Punch Drunk Lemmings 0	Posted - 2012.02.03 07:26:00 - [24] - Quote As grim said above me. Limitation and or perhaps a loss of SP so you only receive x amount from each year. Thus creating a limit that each person could acquire. For Example. If you could afford to run your account you get x amount of SP over x amount of years But a person with only the ability to pay now and then could back date and receive a penalty of losing two thirds of the SP due to being inactive. This would remove the urge to 'farm' inactive accounts and give people who cannot afford it a shade of the SP that they could have acquired if they had been able to run the account full time.
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.02.03 11:57:00 - [25] - Quote mxzf wrote: So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets. Yeah, no, if you can't pay for the account, you don't train, no 'backdating' SP. If you can do that then I demand the ability to backdate education in RL, so the people who skipped college to work can instantly catch back up with everyone else their age. Oh ... wait ... learning doesn't work that way ... (yeah, it is a RL->Eve analogy, but it does point out how stupid the concept is) Well, EVE skill training system is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike anything you could learn in RL so let's not bring it up. To the point, I don't think it would be so much game breaking. Yes, dozen dormant accounts is different than dozen of accounts being actively kept. It's delayed choice: I could reactivate one or not. But buying trained character is also a form of such delayed choice. The only actual difference would be having those raw SPs to spend, and personally I like this idea. (2005 toon flying titan? if I can buy titan pilot then this problem is moot). As for it not being too easy, first, my understanding of original idea would be that the price paid would have to cover for full period of inactivity. It's anyone's assessment whether spending couple of hundreds, or maybe thousand, of bucks is acceptable or not but I think it's not peanuts in any case (my wild guess is that people for whom it IS peanuts don't actually play this game). Also I'd propose that instead of incurring artificial penalties it would suffice if the amount of SP granted would be the LOWEST possible amount to have trained by this time. You know, assuming trainig with minimal attributes in area and without implants. The reason being that if you're interested in having good skills then better you keep your character active and maintained.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 187	Posted - 2012.02.03 13:39:00 - [26] - Quote Next time you take a break, just biomass yourself. Now you won't have to worry about any lapsed time and we won't have to read about your terrible idea.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 187	Posted - 2012.02.03 13:41:00 - [27] - Quote iNfeck7ed wrote: Mag's wrote: I'll have to say no. Buying SP, not matter what the reasoning, is a bad idea for all the reasons stated in the past. quiet peasant, people with jobs who support this game you probably paid your whole eve life with plex which doesn't help ccp advance its software or hardware are thinking, shoosh. support the buying of back-logged sp Haha this guy is mad. Sounds kinda space poor too.
Valea Silpha Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 32	Posted - 2012.02.03 15:32:00 - [28] - Quote I understand the idea of wanting people who stopped playing be able to come back into eve and not be stuck having to retrain for the current popular ships. However, the answer to that is in balancing ships so that all of the skill trees are viable rather than providing people with backdated SP. As things stand today, if you left with any half decent t2 skills, when you come back you will be able to achieve something worthwhile. As various people have pointed out, the concept of having free SP to spend for time unsubbed is terrible. There is no way that this couldn't be abused. However, I would support the idea of you accruing free training time while you account is subbed, but no character is in training, so that you can either bank training time while you are on break or that if you forgot to set a skill you don't lose time. The OPs idea is bad though. Really bad.
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.02.03 17:33:00 - [29] - Quote Valea Silpha wrote: As various people have pointed out, the concept of having free SP to spend for time unsubbed is terrible. There is no way that this couldn't be abused. I don't get it. How would it be abused? I mean, of those three situations (numbers pulled out of my ass; might be sligthly off): 1. Proposed idea: account dormant for 2 years, upon reactivation and paying back 2 year subscription receives 40 mil SP to use. 2. Character incubation: not actively playing, just paying subscription for 2 years and maintaining skill queue, because of implants and attribute remaps gaining 50 mil SP in trained skills. 3. Buying 2 years old, 50 mil SP toon. How is it that the #1 is exploitable and game breaking while others are not?
mxzf Shovel Bros 457	Posted - 2012.02.03 17:45:00 - [30] - Quote hmskrecik wrote: How is it that the #1 is exploitable and game breaking while others are not? Because 1 lets you instantly put points into whatever you want and completely skill for something in an instant. 2 and 3 force either you or the seller of the char to constantly make decisions over the course of two years and live with those decisions when FotM changes. 2 and 3 reward forward-thinking and planning out what you want to train, 1 rewards dumping a bunch of cash into the char and getting an instant FotM char.

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