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Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 17:31:00 - [1] The best solution to fix logging, especially in 0.0 is to have all ships persist in space for 5 minutes after exiting the game. This was the same solution used in Ultima Online, and it worked perfectly. If you didn't want your character sticking around (to be killed) you would log off in an inn, or somewhere safe. It's funny when it came to PvP, Ultima Online had it so right yet it was the pioneer of the genre. Since Eve combat is slower paced you could probably bump the log off timer to around 7 minutes, and this would also stop the gangs from doing it. Who would log their gang off in hostile space when worried about hostiles killing them while their ships are inactive?
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.07 17:45:00 - [2] Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.07 17:47:00 - [3] I crash all the time. I don't care. I have people log off on me more often, but hey, think of all the business CCP could lose from: auto-logoffski ISK macrobots in 0.0 0.0 carebears (how many RA, TCF, -A-, etc are in-game) and losers in general.. CCP care about $$$ more than a clean game. =====
yosef kaldhu Minmatar Genesis Trade And Industry Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.07 17:54:00 - [4] isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? ------------------- The life of one can change the lives of many
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:03:00 - [5] Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
Condecinte	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:09:00 - [6] Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14 So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape? I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways. Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing.
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:26:00 - [7] Originally by: Condecinte Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14 So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape? I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways. Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing. You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:30:00 - [8] CCPS stance on this stinks tbqh SKUNK
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local. That's their choice. It would be easier to be sympathetic if they were using logoffski to escape combat, but to escape detection? The system as it works right now severely favors the hunter, log off aside for sake of this example. There are only so many places in 0.0 where you can really warp to when you're being hunted. The star, planets (13 is the most I've ever seen), and maybe other belts. Moons? Yeah, right, would be all kinds of fun to jump to a moon in a system and get wtfpwnt by a POS turret, so moons are right out for most people in 0.0. Jumping around to these points is one idea that's been put forth, but lets look at the details. Unless you're unbelievably lucky on your approach, it takes nothing shy of an eternity to align from a dead stop for the next warp hop, and if you get spotted, its not difficult for an observant person to derive your heading based on your outbound course. The bottom line is, with a five minute log off timer, there's really no place in a system where a trapped ratter can really run to for shelter when a hunter fleet runs through. If we could pick a random point within 80aus of the system to hide in? Sure, leave'em there for a half hour, if you want. But if we only have a REAL short list of locations to get hidden in? Forget it. That's pretty much handing the win for free to the hunters.
Rhaegor Stormborn Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:34:00 - [10] Originally by: fire 59 Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag) Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly? I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks. Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Volition Cult
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:36:00 - [11] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/12/2007 18:36:49 Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/12/2007 18:36:31 Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: Condecinte Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14 So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape? I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways. Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing. You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap. Very bright. As this game don't give a convenient in at every corner, a system to leave the game without losing the ship is needed. Your suggestion of 7 minutes mean that a player can leave the game with no one in local and return to find his ship destroyed and himself killed. If your opinion of a "fair" game is killing someone that can't react, go to the starting system and kill new players. It is your level of game.
Eralus	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Janu Hull There are only so many places in 0.0 where you can really warp to when you're being hunted. Uhm, there are essentially INFINITE places you can hide. You don't have to warp to a planet, at least not if you've properly laid out some bookmarks before you go ratting. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Eralus	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Venkul Mul Your suggestion of 7 minutes mean that a player can leave the game with no one in local and return to find his ship destroyed and himself killed. There's the answer. You can log out immediately in any empty system. If the system isn't empty, then you get the timer. Hell, CCP could even be nice and give you a warning message if you attempt to log out in a non-empty, non-high-sec system. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Condecinte	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: Condecinte Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14 So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape? I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways. Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing. You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap. So anybody caught in a situation like this should either warp about until blue in the face (and eventually get caught anyway) or just die? No logging not even if your wife is about to cut your balls off? Superior numbers should not mean guaranteed death. Anyway I dont care, I rat in a cloak fitted drone ship in 0.0, and if the time comes when cloaks can be probed then I'll go do L4 missions. And I DO pvp before anybody throws that in my face.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:43:00 - [15] Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/12/2007 18:44:13 Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: fire 59 Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag) Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly? I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks. Spot on. Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved ). Television audience of 1 billion people..... 60 mins into the game...... Mrs Miggins from Bromley Wells, England suddenly looses reception on her television after Rod Hull (R.I.P) falls off the roof, taking the TV aerial with him. Game is halted, and the rest of the world sit about twiddling their thumbs, because Mrs Miggins has a dodgy connection. Wouldnt happen. The game would go on - and Mrs Miggins can get stuffed. I agree with Rhaegor.. If you havent got the connection/equipment to play this game then tough. Its gutting for you.. but dont put all your eggs in one basket and you'll be fine. SKUNK
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:47:00 - [16] Originally by: Eralus Originally by: Janu Hull There are only so many places in 0.0 where you can really warp to when you're being hunted. Uhm, there are essentially INFINITE places you can hide. You don't have to warp to a planet, at least not if you've properly laid out some bookmarks before you go ratting. I also have bad connections with Eve, crash every few hours when jumping systems or docking. If this is put in, then my suggestion to people logging off to escape detectio would be to have a POS in system, get intisde the shield then let it defend you while you wait out the timer. Rate my charecters please, updated so need 3 more, 2M isk for each good review
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Le Skunk Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved ). QTF Rate my charecters please, updated so need 3 more, 2M isk for each good review
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:10:00 - [18] wtf?`! NO!!!, ******** idea... it is an easy problem, just do it that when your effected by a warpscram you stay in space untill the effect is gone, and when you log of your ship will warp off if not effected, but still taking as long to warp as normally, so if your logging of at a gate, it will still take the same time for the ship(thereby giving the attacker that amount of time to get a scrambler on you or a bobble or something that gives you warpscrambling, which then means you will stay their untill it is gone.)
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local. screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...) idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to.. if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't.. (or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.)
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:21:00 - [20] Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:21:52 Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local. screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...) idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to.. if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't.. (or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.) You are dumb. If you don't want to be ******* attacked in 0.0 then go back to Empire. 0.0 isn't 'dueling time', it's suppose to be a battleground. It's NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE. I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:22:00 - [21] I approve of this (for all sections of space, not just 0.0), even if I crash now and then, which I do. I've once crashed while in combat, but ratters typically don't pack scramblers. Rifters!
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:23:00 - [22] Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 19:26:42 Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local. screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...) idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to.. if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't.. (or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.) You are aware that one of the main fundamentals behind the game is non-consensual pvp? Right? I've been saying since I started playing that the emergency warps were one of the worst things in the game. You get dc'd and die, there's the petition system for that, and the log files will demonstrate whether it was an active log off or not. You wanna log off when not in station, then you leave your ship parked for people to probe and destroy if so being. If I had my way there wouldn't be a timer, the ship would just sit where they logged til they logged back in.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Woolygimp I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool. Yup and they always seem to be the ones loudest on the forums...
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:26:00 - [24] Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:26:15 We seriously need to actively try and get the logging mechanic changed. I think if provided with a reasonable argument, CCP will listen and change it. The current one just doesn't make sense, and is open to abuse.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Woolygimp Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:21:52 Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local. screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...) idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to.. if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't.. (or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.) You are dumb. If you don't want to be ******* attacked in 0.0 then go back to Empire. 0.0 isn't 'dueling time', it's suppose to be a battleground. It's NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE. I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool. ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Woolygimp Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:21:52 Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: yosef kaldhu isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information???? The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local. screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...) idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to.. if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't.. (or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.) You are dumb. If you don't want to be ******* attacked in 0.0 then go back to Empire. 0.0 isn't 'dueling time', it's suppose to be a battleground. It's NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE. I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool. ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to. You obviously no idea what's being discussed. People are insta-logging as soon as hostiles enter the system avoiding all forms of risk. People are logging WHILE being attacked, again saving their ships in situations that would be impossible to do so. They are abusing the system. The 5 minute rule just means that you should hunt in protected space, use intelligence channels, fly safer, log off at station or POS', and stop being careless.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:29:00 - [27] Originally by: Buyerr ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to. I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/12/2007 18:44:13 Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: fire 59 Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag) Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly? I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks. Spot on. Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved ). Television audience of 1 billion people..... 60 mins into the game...... Mrs Miggins from Bromley Wells, England suddenly looses reception on her television after Rod Hull (R.I.P) falls off the roof, taking the TV aerial with him. Game is halted, and the rest of the world sit about twiddling their thumbs, because Mrs Miggins has a dodgy connection. Wouldnt happen. The game would go on - and Mrs Miggins can get stuffed. I agree with Rhaegor.. If you havent got the connection/equipment to play this game then tough. Its gutting for you.. but dont put all your eggs in one basket and you'll be fine. SKUNK Second Law of PvP: Never compare it to the real world. I keep hearing PvPers saying how the game shouldn't be fair, and I keep wondering if it ever occurred to them that the same is true of difficulties in catching their targets. Why should the game be any more fair to them? If you can't beat the timer, you don't deserve the kill. In this, there is a little balance.
Rhaegor Stormborn Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Buyerr ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to. I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart. I am down with that 100%. Yes, I will have to time my ops more carefully so I will be somewhere safe when I have to log out, and yes, there would be times I would have to log out in a safe spot and hope I was there when I got back online because an emergency came up, but you know what? I would be happy to do so knowing how much the game had been improved for this. Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Volition Cult
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Buyerr ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!? well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to. I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart. I am down with that 100%. Yes, I will have to time my ops more carefully so I will be somewhere safe when I have to log out, and yes, there would be times I would have to log out in a safe spot and hope I was there when I got back online because an emergency came up, but you know what? I would be happy to do so knowing how much the game had been improved for this. Yup, that's my feelings. I can probably see reasons for there being some form of timer before the ship disappears to reduce lag and server stress, but I see no reason why it's not quite a long one; and I wouldn't mind at all if it were permanent.

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