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Woolygimp
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:31:00 -
[1]
The best solution to fix logging, especially in 0.0 is to have all ships persist in space for 5 minutes after exiting the game. This was the same solution used in Ultima Online, and it worked perfectly. If you didn't want your character sticking around (to be killed) you would log off in an inn, or somewhere safe.
It's funny when it came to PvP, Ultima Online had it so right yet it was the pioneer of the genre. Since Eve combat is slower paced you could probably bump the log off timer to around 7 minutes, and this would also stop the gangs from doing it. Who would log their gang off in hostile space when worried about hostiles killing them while their ships are inactive?
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fire 59
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:45:00 -
[2]
Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo |
Awox
Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:47:00 -
[3]
I crash all the time. I don't care. I have people log off on me more often, but hey, think of all the business CCP could lose from:
auto-logoffski ISK macrobots in 0.0
0.0 carebears (how many RA, TCF, -A-, etc are in-game)
and losers in general..
CCP care about $$$ more than a clean game.
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yosef kaldhu
Minmatar
Genesis Trade And Industry Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:54:00 -
[4]
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
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The life of one can change the lives of many
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Woolygimp
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:03:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
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Condecinte
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14
So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape?
I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways.
Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing.
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Woolygimp
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Condecinte
Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14
So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape?
I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways.
Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing.
You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:30:00 -
[8]
CCPS stance on this stinks tbqh
SKUNK
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
That's their choice. It would be easier to be sympathetic if they were using logoffski to escape combat, but to escape detection?
The system as it works right now severely favors the hunter, log off aside for sake of this example. There are only so many places in 0.0 where you can really warp to when you're being hunted. The star, planets (13 is the most I've ever seen), and maybe other belts. Moons? Yeah, right, would be all kinds of fun to jump to a moon in a system and get wtfpwnt by a POS turret, so moons are right out for most people in 0.0. Jumping around to these points is one idea that's been put forth, but lets look at the details. Unless you're unbelievably lucky on your approach, it takes nothing shy of an eternity to align from a dead stop for the next warp hop, and if you get spotted, its not difficult for an observant person to derive your heading based on your outbound course.
The bottom line is, with a five minute log off timer, there's really no place in a system where a trapped ratter can really run to for shelter when a hunter fleet runs through. If we could pick a random point within 80aus of the system to hide in? Sure, leave'em there for a half hour, if you want. But if we only have a REAL short list of locations to get hidden in? Forget it. That's pretty much handing the win for free to the hunters.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: fire 59
Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag)
Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly?
I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Fleet Admiral - Volition Cult |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/12/2007 18:36:49
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/12/2007 18:36:31
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: Condecinte
Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14
So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape?
I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways.
Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing.
You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap.
Very bright.
As this game don't give a convenient in at every corner, a system to leave the game without losing the ship is needed.
Your suggestion of 7 minutes mean that a player can leave the game with no one in local and return to find his ship destroyed and himself killed.
If your opinion of a "fair" game is killing someone that can't react, go to the starting system and kill new players. It is your level of game.
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Eralus
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Janu Hull
There are only so many places in 0.0 where you can really warp to when you're being hunted.
Uhm, there are essentially INFINITE places you can hide. You don't have to warp to a planet, at least not if you've properly laid out some bookmarks before you go ratting.
_____
Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Eralus
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Your suggestion of 7 minutes mean that a player can leave the game with no one in local and return to find his ship destroyed and himself killed.
There's the answer. You can log out immediately in any empty system. If the system isn't empty, then you get the timer. Hell, CCP could even be nice and give you a warning message if you attempt to log out in a non-empty, non-high-sec system.
_____
Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Condecinte
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: Condecinte
Edited by: Condecinte on 07/12/2007 18:14:14
So i'm ratting in a system with no station and a huge gang show up determined to probe me out and kill me. With this proposal I can warp around until they get bored and go away (who knows how long a gang will hang around just to get a kill) and if I log in space I will be guaranteed to log back in to see my pod sitting in a station. What if I need to log off? What do I do? Doesn't there have to be some way to escape?
I know you hate the farmers and logoffers but doing this will not force them to fight, they will just find other ways.
Edit: I would like to make it very clear that I have never and will never log off in the middle of combat. I only log when I am finished playing.
You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap.
So anybody caught in a situation like this should either warp about until blue in the face (and eventually get caught anyway) or just die? No logging not even if your wife is about to cut your balls off? Superior numbers should not mean guaranteed death. Anyway I dont care, I rat in a cloak fitted drone ship in 0.0, and if the time comes when cloaks can be probed then I'll go do L4 missions. And I DO pvp before anybody throws that in my face.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/12/2007 18:44:13
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: fire 59
Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag)
Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly?
I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks.
Spot on.
Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved  ).
Television audience of 1 billion people.....
60 mins into the game......
Mrs Miggins from Bromley Wells, England suddenly looses reception on her television after Rod Hull (R.I.P) falls off the roof, taking the TV aerial with him.
Game is halted, and the rest of the world sit about twiddling their thumbs, because Mrs Miggins has a dodgy connection.
Wouldnt happen. The game would go on - and Mrs Miggins can get stuffed.
I agree with Rhaegor.. If you havent got the connection/equipment to play this game then tough. Its gutting for you.. but dont put all your eggs in one basket and you'll be fine.
SKUNK
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Eralus
Originally by: Janu Hull
There are only so many places in 0.0 where you can really warp to when you're being hunted.
Uhm, there are essentially INFINITE places you can hide. You don't have to warp to a planet, at least not if you've properly laid out some bookmarks before you go ratting.
I also have bad connections with Eve, crash every few hours when jumping systems or docking.
If this is put in, then my suggestion to people logging off to escape detectio would be to have a POS in system, get intisde the shield then let it defend you while you wait out the timer.
Rate my charecters please, updated so need 3 more, 2M isk for each good review |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved ).
QTF
Rate my charecters please, updated so need 3 more, 2M isk for each good review |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:10:00 -
[18]
wtf?`! NO!!!,
******** idea...
it is an easy problem, just do it that when your effected by a warpscram you stay in space untill the effect is gone, and when you log of your ship will warp off if not effected, but still taking as long to warp as normally, so if your logging of at a gate, it will still take the same time for the ship(thereby giving the attacker that amount of time to get a scrambler on you or a bobble or something that gives you warpscrambling, which then means you will stay their untill it is gone.)
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...)
idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to..
if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't..
(or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.)
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Woolygimp
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:21:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:21:52
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...)
idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to..
if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't..
(or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.)
You are dumb. If you don't want to be ******* attacked in 0.0 then go back to Empire. 0.0 isn't 'dueling time', it's suppose to be a battleground. It's NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:22:00 -
[21]
I approve of this (for all sections of space, not just 0.0), even if I crash now and then, which I do. I've once crashed while in combat, but ratters typically don't pack scramblers.
Rifters!
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 19:26:42
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...)
idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to..
if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't..
(or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.)
You are aware that one of the main fundamentals behind the game is non-consensual pvp? Right?
I've been saying since I started playing that the emergency warps were one of the worst things in the game. You get dc'd and die, there's the petition system for that, and the log files will demonstrate whether it was an active log off or not.
You wanna log off when not in station, then you leave your ship parked for people to probe and destroy if so being.
If I had my way there wouldn't be a timer, the ship would just sit where they logged til they logged back in.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Woolygimp
I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool.
Yup and they always seem to be the ones loudest on the forums...
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Woolygimp
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:26:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:26:15
We seriously need to actively try and get the logging mechanic changed. I think if provided with a reasonable argument, CCP will listen and change it.
The current one just doesn't make sense, and is open to abuse.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Woolygimp
Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:21:52
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...)
idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to..
if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't..
(or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.)
You are dumb. If you don't want to be ******* attacked in 0.0 then go back to Empire. 0.0 isn't 'dueling time', it's suppose to be a battleground. It's NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool.
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
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Woolygimp
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Woolygimp
Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 19:21:52
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
screw that, it is their CHOICE to say hey i don't want to play now i am logging off, and then not having to say (ow but their are people some where in the system they are not at my safe spot but now i can't log off until they are gone...)
idiocy... don't FORCE people to pvp if they don't want to..
if you catch them in the "fair" playground that the game already have then sure, they have to but else don't..
(or the next idea will be a generator at a pos where you can choice a person by the char name and he is dragged right next to the pos and is forced to take the fight.... would be stupid.)
You are dumb. If you don't want to be ******* attacked in 0.0 then go back to Empire. 0.0 isn't 'dueling time', it's suppose to be a battleground. It's NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
I swear, sometimes these MMO's pick up the bottom of the barrel. I'm talking about completely stupid human beings that need to remove themselves from the gene pool.
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
You obviously no idea what's being discussed. People are insta-logging as soon as hostiles enter the system avoiding all forms of risk. People are logging WHILE being attacked, again saving their ships in situations that would be impossible to do so. They are abusing the system.
The 5 minute rule just means that you should hunt in protected space, use intelligence channels, fly safer, log off at station or POS', and stop being careless.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Buyerr
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/12/2007 18:44:13
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: fire 59
Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag)
Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly?
I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks.
Spot on.
Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved ).
Television audience of 1 billion people.....
60 mins into the game......
Mrs Miggins from Bromley Wells, England suddenly looses reception on her television after Rod Hull (R.I.P) falls off the roof, taking the TV aerial with him.
Game is halted, and the rest of the world sit about twiddling their thumbs, because Mrs Miggins has a dodgy connection.
Wouldnt happen. The game would go on - and Mrs Miggins can get stuffed.
I agree with Rhaegor.. If you havent got the connection/equipment to play this game then tough. Its gutting for you.. but dont put all your eggs in one basket and you'll be fine.
SKUNK
Second Law of PvP: Never compare it to the real world.
I keep hearing PvPers saying how the game shouldn't be fair, and I keep wondering if it ever occurred to them that the same is true of difficulties in catching their targets. Why should the game be any more fair to them? If you can't beat the timer, you don't deserve the kill.
In this, there is a little balance.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Buyerr
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
I am down with that 100%. Yes, I will have to time my ops more carefully so I will be somewhere safe when I have to log out, and yes, there would be times I would have to log out in a safe spot and hope I was there when I got back online because an emergency came up, but you know what? I would be happy to do so knowing how much the game had been improved for this.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Fleet Admiral - Volition Cult |
Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Buyerr
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
I am down with that 100%. Yes, I will have to time my ops more carefully so I will be somewhere safe when I have to log out, and yes, there would be times I would have to log out in a safe spot and hope I was there when I got back online because an emergency came up, but you know what? I would be happy to do so knowing how much the game had been improved for this.
Yup, that's my feelings. I can probably see reasons for there being some form of timer before the ship disappears to reduce lag and server stress, but I see no reason why it's not quite a long one; and I wouldn't mind at all if it were permanent.
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mishkof
Caldari
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Woolygimp
You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap.
Dont be ********. Noone is caught until they are warp disrupted or other wise engaged.
If you watch local it is perfectly possible to never get ganked while ratting.
Huge difference between logging while ratting and jumping into a bubble, then logging.
If any of your reasoning as to why this is cheap includes the word honor then LOL.
I own a T2 BPO and have a Capital alt. Please hate/troll/smack me.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 19:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Woolygimp
You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap.
Bull****! Here's a newsflash for you: quite a lot of people have lives besides EVE. If something happens, hell, even if my cellphone rings, I have every right to just log off. Of course I shouldn't be able to do it during the fight but why the hell should I care if some red losers are in local? What if they jump in the very second I log? Why should I have to go to a station, even in 0.0 to log? And you know what? This would actually hurt carebears less as they would be the ones able to hug POS or dock in their own territory. Any roaming gang behind enemy lines would be screwed as soon as it logs off.
Another piece of nolife ideas. No, just no.
---
I am violence boat
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:44:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 19:44:54
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Woolygimp
You should've thought about that before you hunted in a system without reinforcements and without a friendly station. You were 'caught' and have to do you best to evade, but 'logging' is so god damn cheap.
Bull****! Here's a newsflash for you: quite a lot of people have lives besides EVE. If something happens, hell, even if my cellphone rings, I have every right to just log off. Of course I shouldn't be able to do it during the fight but why the hell should I care if some red losers are in local? What if they jump in the very second I log? Why should I have to go to a station, even in 0.0 to log? And you know what? This would actually hurt carebears less as they would be the ones able to hug POS or dock in their own territory. Any roaming gang behind enemy lines would be screwed as soon as it logs off.
Another piece of nolife ideas. No, just no.
My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right?
The whole POINT in my opinion is that the enemy gang SHOULD be screwed if they log off behind enemy lines.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/12/2007 18:44:13
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: fire 59
Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag)
Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly?
I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks.
Spot on.
Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved ).
Television audience of 1 billion people.....
60 mins into the game......
Mrs Miggins from Bromley Wells, England suddenly looses reception on her television after Rod Hull (R.I.P) falls off the roof, taking the TV aerial with him.
Game is halted, and the rest of the world sit about twiddling their thumbs, because Mrs Miggins has a dodgy connection.
Wouldnt happen. The game would go on - and Mrs Miggins can get stuffed.
I agree with Rhaegor.. If you havent got the connection/equipment to play this game then tough. Its gutting for you.. but dont put all your eggs in one basket and you'll be fine.
SKUNK
Second Law of PvP: Never compare it to the real world.
I keep hearing PvPers saying how the game shouldn't be fair, and I keep wondering if it ever occurred to them that the same is true of difficulties in catching their targets. Why should the game be any more fair to them? If you can't beat the timer, you don't deserve the kill.
In this, there is a little balance.
But the mechanic is being abused. I'd have genuine sympathy with people who are dc'd, but there's the petition system to get their stuff back. There really is no need whatsoever in the game mechanics to have ships able to instawarp out of a bubble and points because the pilot had no bottle and didn't want to lose his stuff so logged.
From a server point of view, fair enough, they can't stay there forever. But there's no reason at all that they shouldn't stay there for fifteen minutes, 30 minutes or whatever in the meantime.
You realize that EVE's log off/disappear timer is pretty extraordinary? In most games, even those with PvP, the average timer I've seen is about a minute, at the outside.
Hell, even a rough game with a brutal real world money loss like Entropia Universe is only a minute or so, and that game's so hardcore, its fanbois look at subscription gamers like little schoolgirls with skinned knees.
The players here need to get a grip. In terms of log off exposure, they've got gifted status among gamers.
And remember, logging off when players enter the system is not logging off in the face of PvP. If you're engaged in combat, there's a timer in place that lets people who abuse disconnects be punished for it.
You're asking for the right to jump into a system at random, look down a list of names in the local channel and say, "I'm here to hunt you down. I don't know where you are right now, but you can't log off until I find you and have a chance to shoot you."
That's ridiculous, if you stop and think about it.
|
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Buyerr
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
I'm going to shock you a bit and say I'd have no problem with this, either.
Its already in the game for motherships and titans. And while it would be a pain in my butt to deal with at the battleship level, I can already work out in my mind how I'd cope with it.
|
Woolygimp
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/12/2007 18:44:13
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: fire 59
Sounds like a great idea. There will be tears from some saying about lost connection. Well tough, for the greater good (stands on hilltop waving flag)
Why should I, or anyone else with a decent computer and internet connection care about some peron's personal internet connectivity problems? Why does an entire game poulation have to suffer because a small percentage of the playerbase can not stay connected to the game properly?
I agree with Le Skunk. CCP's stance on this issue sucks.
Spot on.
Imagine this: Its the world cup final day (thats football aka soccer world cup to the yanks. The game where the actual world is involved ).
Television audience of 1 billion people.....
60 mins into the game......
Mrs Miggins from Bromley Wells, England suddenly looses reception on her television after Rod Hull (R.I.P) falls off the roof, taking the TV aerial with him.
Game is halted, and the rest of the world sit about twiddling their thumbs, because Mrs Miggins has a dodgy connection.
Wouldnt happen. The game would go on - and Mrs Miggins can get stuffed.
I agree with Rhaegor.. If you havent got the connection/equipment to play this game then tough. Its gutting for you.. but dont put all your eggs in one basket and you'll be fine.
SKUNK
Second Law of PvP: Never compare it to the real world.
I keep hearing PvPers saying how the game shouldn't be fair, and I keep wondering if it ever occurred to them that the same is true of difficulties in catching their targets. Why should the game be any more fair to them? If you can't beat the timer, you don't deserve the kill.
In this, there is a little balance.
But the mechanic is being abused. I'd have genuine sympathy with people who are dc'd, but there's the petition system to get their stuff back. There really is no need whatsoever in the game mechanics to have ships able to instawarp out of a bubble and points because the pilot had no bottle and didn't want to lose his stuff so logged.
From a server point of view, fair enough, they can't stay there forever. But there's no reason at all that they shouldn't stay there for fifteen minutes, 30 minutes or whatever in the meantime.
You realize that EVE's log off/disappear timer is pretty extraordinary? In most games, even those with PvP, the average timer I've seen is about a minute, at the outside.
Hell, even a rough game with a brutal real world money loss like Entropia Universe is only a minute or so, and that game's so hardcore, its fanbois look at subscription gamers like little schoolgirls with skinned knees.
The players here need to get a grip. In terms of log off exposure, they've got gifted status among gamers.
And remember, logging off when players enter the system is not logging off in the face of PvP. If you're engaged in combat, there's a timer in place that lets people who abuse disconnects be punished for it.
You're asking for the right to jump into a system at random, look down a list of names in the local channel and say, "I'm here to hunt you down. I don't know where you are right now, but you can't log off until I find you and have a chance to shoot you."
That's ridiculous, if you stop and think about it.
I don't think local should display the people in it in 0.0 to begin with. You can warp to a bookmark, and log. 5 minutes later, you'll be out of the game.
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Nur Vadenn
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:50:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Second Law of PvP: Never compare it to the real world.
I keep hearing PvPers saying how the game shouldn't be fair, and I keep wondering if it ever occurred to them that the same is true of difficulties in catching their targets. Why should the game be any more fair to them? If you can't beat the timer, you don't deserve the kill.
In this, there is a little balance.
This...
Just because you happen to be out hunting it does not entitle you to a kill.
|
Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Janu Hull
You realize that EVE's log off/disappear timer is pretty extraordinary? In most games, even those with PvP, the average timer I've seen is about a minute, at the outside.
Hell, even a rough game with a brutal real world money loss like Entropia Universe is only a minute or so, and that game's so hardcore, its fanbois look at subscription gamers like little schoolgirls with skinned knees.
The players here need to get a grip. In terms of log off exposure, they've got gifted status among gamers.
And remember, logging off when players enter the system is not logging off in the face of PvP. If you're engaged in combat, there's a timer in place that lets people who abuse disconnects be punished for it.
You're asking for the right to jump into a system at random, look down a list of names in the local channel and say, "I'm here to hunt you down. I don't know where you are right now, but you can't log off until I find you and have a chance to shoot you."
That's ridiculous, if you stop and think about it.
What do other games have to do with what I'd like for Eve? If I was playing them, maybe I'd moan about them?
However, to me, it simply doesn't fit with everything else in the game.
|
Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Buyerr
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
I'm going to shock you a bit and say I'd have no problem with this, either.
Its already in the game for motherships and titans. And while it would be a pain in my butt to deal with at the battleship level, I can already work out in my mind how I'd cope with it.
Reading your first post, yeah that's a shock. Personally, I think it'd be an awesome change to the game, and add a hell of a lot. You park up your moma/titan in a system and it becomes your corp/alliances responsibilty to defend it whilst you're not there.
|
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Buyerr
ow really, okey then why not but a permanent on it, so when in 0.0 your ship NEVER leaves the server.. ow is that too harsh?!?
well there is no freaking reason in hell to force people to stay on if they don't want to.
I'd love it to be permanent, and not just for 0.0 - make it everywhere. Your ship should be docked, or in a pos for any form of security whilst not logged in, in my opinion, if you log anywhere else it only seems fair that your ship stay exactly where it is and be open to being blown apart.
I'm going to shock you a bit and say I'd have no problem with this, either.
Its already in the game for motherships and titans. And while it would be a pain in my butt to deal with at the battleship level, I can already work out in my mind how I'd cope with it.
Reading your first post, yeah that's a shock. Personally, I think it'd be an awesome change to the game, and add a hell of a lot. You park up your moma/titan in a system and it becomes your corp/alliances responsibilty to defend it whilst you're not there.
It would add some depth, that's for certain. Adding a new dimension to the value of maintaining sovreign control of star systems.
If that made logging off to escape impossible, so be it. To be honest, I've never done it. I've got enough guest appearances on various killboards to back that up. I'll fight or sneak my way out of a corner, and if I lose, I lose, and I limp back to empire to rebuild (at least I did before I joined DMC). Doom on me for never training cloaks.
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Soraya Silvermoon
Langoliers
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:08:00 -
[41]
The log off timer is to long as it is. When loggin after participating in combat your ship stays in space for long eonugh to be killed. This only hurts pvpers and noone can log in have 10 mins of hunting then log off and go do something else.
The other reason why its messed up is because of the connection loss problems.
I am sure pvpers would like the titans to die in a fight rather than to connection loss. But now they are invulnerable to warpscrambling and due to their hp they are invulnerable to death by other players. However they are really vulnerable to connection issues...
Even when you havent participated in pvp the timer is to long.
When an enemy fleet jumps their capital ships into system they will start loosing connections and half their fleet will be warping in all directions.. then its can easely be abused by the enemy fleet to scan down the targets and warp to them and kill them at their random spot. I`ve seen this happen...
no.. just no.. as the buuyer dude said. The only sensible way to solve it is to have the ship stay in space as long as a warpscrambler is active on it...
I suspect this isnt possible because of programming issues since CCP arent using it.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Janu Hull
It would add some depth, that's for certain. Adding a new dimension to the value of maintaining sovreign control of star systems.
If that made logging off to escape impossible, so be it. To be honest, I've never done it. I've got enough guest appearances on various killboards to back that up. I'll fight or sneak my way out of a corner, and if I lose, I lose, and I limp back to empire to rebuild (at least I did before I joined DMC). Doom on me for never training cloaks.
Yup, I've never logged off to avoid dying. I've been dc'd in a fight, and usually die anyway cause I fly paper thin ships.
As you say, I think it'd add a new and very intriguing dimension to the game, and really reinforce the ownership, and vulnerability of that ownership, of space.
|
Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon
The log off timer is to long as it is. When loggin after participating in combat your ship stays in space for long eonugh to be killed. This only hurts pvpers and noone can log in have 10 mins of hunting then log off and go do something else.
The other reason why its messed up is because of the connection loss problems.
I am sure pvpers would like the titans to die in a fight rather than to connection loss. But now they are invulnerable to warpscrambling and due to their hp they are invulnerable to death by other players. However they are really vulnerable to connection issues...
Even when you havent participated in pvp the timer is to long.
When an enemy fleet jumps their capital ships into system they will start loosing connections and half their fleet will be warping in all directions.. then its can easely be abused by the enemy fleet to scan down the targets and warp to them and kill them at their random spot. I`ve seen this happen...
no.. just no.. as the buuyer dude said. The only sensible way to solve it is to have the ship stay in space as long as a warpscrambler is active on it...
I suspect this isnt possible because of programming issues since CCP arent using it.
But there's already another system in place for dealing with loss of ship from client drops - the petition.
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Soraya Silvermoon
Langoliers
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:36:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 07/12/2007 20:36:58
So I can go gank something logg off at a safe and if someone kills me then I just petition and get my ship back?
First of all CCP dont reimburse ships like that becasue there is no way to detect if its a real connection loss or if its the player that just pulled the plug...
Secound it would create a horrifying amount of petitions for CCP to handle + it would require a gm to activly go through logs every time to check how n when and where...
No it doesnt work like that...
This allso brings up an issue that is exploitable.
You can logg off your chr while the enemy is shooting at you and if your fast eonugh you log in an other chr on the same account and the ship will dissappear. I dont know if this issue have been solved yet but I`ve been shooting at ppl who simpy dissapear before they die and I probably dont have to tell you how annoying that is. (if it havent been fixed)
Another issue is that the dictor bubbles dont initiate the agression timer so anyone caught in one on jumpin can just logg off with no timer and the people with the bubble cant kill anything. (if it havent been fixed)
I suspect your not into pvp at all. I suspect your actually only into blob warfare and never ever engage if you dont have 10 to 1 numbers. Because your out to severly damage guerillia warfare.
If its all about numbers and ganking then why bother with stats on ships...
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Shoukei
Boobs Ahoy
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:41:00 -
[45]
logging off at POS is completely safe. logging off god knows where with 50 hostiles, shouldn't be safe. you crashed? get better connection. the rest of eve doesn't have to suffer because some very few cant get a decent connection.
here be signatures! |
Soraya Silvermoon
Langoliers
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:49:00 -
[46]
pos arent safe.... pos can be destroyed... and then a fleet can just sit there and kill everything that logs on.
and then you also got Titan bumping..
Warp a titan into an enemy pos and ships within the pos will eject.
this was used against BOB and they petitioned it as an exploit.. CCP said no.. Then BOB went on a spree stealing capitalships all over eve from poses and after about a month CCP declared it an exploit.
And even the very nature of poses since day one makes them a death trap :D The first poses killed more friendlies than enemies and I suspect even its better now its not entirely safe...
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:53:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 20:55:13
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 07/12/2007 20:53:34
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon
Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 07/12/2007 20:36:58
So I can go gank something logg off at a safe and if someone kills me then I just petition and get my ship back?
First of all CCP dont reimburse ships like that becasue there is no way to detect if its a real connection loss or if its the player that just pulled the plug...
Secound it would create a horrifying amount of petitions for CCP to handle + it would require a gm to activly go through logs every time to check how n when and where...
No it doesnt work like that...
This allso brings up an issue that is exploitable.
You can logg off your chr while the enemy is shooting at you and if your fast eonugh you log in an other chr on the same account and the ship will dissappear. I dont know if this issue have been solved yet but I`ve been shooting at ppl who simpy dissapear before they die and I probably dont have to tell you how annoying that is. (if it havent been fixed)
Another issue is that the dictor bubbles dont initiate the agression timer so anyone caught in one on jumpin can just logg off with no timer and the people with the bubble cant kill anything. (if it havent been fixed)
I suspect your not into pvp at all. I suspect your actually only into blob warfare and never ever engage if you dont have 10 to 1 numbers. Because your out to severly damage guerillia warfare.
If its all about numbers and ganking then why bother with stats on ships...
No you idiot, I'm talking about if you get disconnected. If you check your logs it shows whether the log off was initiated from your end or server.
If I'm not into pvp, maybe you should check the smash killboards.
And if you hadn't noticed, dictor bubbles now DO initiate the aggression timer. Jeez, at least get your facts right.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon
pos arent safe.... pos can be destroyed... and then a fleet can just sit there and kill everything that logs on.
and then you also got Titan bumping..
Warp a titan into an enemy pos and ships within the pos will eject.
this was used against BOB and they petitioned it as an exploit.. CCP said no.. Then BOB went on a spree stealing capitalships all over eve from poses and after about a month CCP declared it an exploit.
Dock those ships in the POS, don't just abandon them floating...
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Soraya Silvermoon
Langoliers
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 20:56:00 -
[49]
ehm... no need for calling names...
As I said there is no way to differ a connection loss from an actual logg off.
CCP simply cant detect it.
Even if there is something sending a message to CCP that you logg off when you hit CTRL-Q there is nothing stopping you from just pulling the plug from the wall.
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Soraya Silvermoon
Langoliers
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:01:00 -
[50]
Rofl 142 kills... I rest my case. God day to you sir, I`m off watching a movie.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right?
The whole POINT in my opinion is that the enemy gang SHOULD be screwed if they log off behind enemy lines.
If someone isn't ENGAGED at the moment of logoff, they should disappear. The current timer already allows for probing with perfect skills and that's as far as it should go. If I want to talk to real people in the real world, then yes, my cellphone IS more important. There's no reason at all why I should be punished in-game for being sane. What this whole stupid whine thread is about is the ability to kill HELPLESS players who are not in the game anymore.
Of course a minority of players will log off as soon as there is a hostile in system. If you can't find your prey quickly enough, then cry more. You're no worse off than if the system turned out to be empty.
One of the unique advantages of EVE is that it doesn't force people to play 24/7 to have any impact on the game. If hardcore measured by the hours you're stuck to your keyboard is what you're after then go play WoW, Lineage or Tibia. (where, I might add, the logoff timer isn't even close to what we have in EVE).
This is a game of SPACE combat. Stop forcing people to operate from cities/inns or go back to other MMOs. 0.0 warfare is already too POS-centered, don't make things worse.
---
I am violence boat
|
Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon
Rofl 142 kills... I rest my case. God day to you sir, I`m off watching a movie.
Yeah, which if i was into the ganking you suggested would be much higher from the 6 months I've been playing; but considering I like to work for them sits at a humble figure.
As you pointed out yourself - its not about the numbers.
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BestPrices
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:08:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right?
Or maybe I just have sane priorities concerning the importance of a video game vs. the importance of my real world obligations? If you think EVE is always more important than your cellphone, you've clearly never had a girlfriend or a job.
One of the draws of EVE for me is that I don't have to play 8 hours a day to have the skills to use decent ships (buying, however may be a longer term thing for me).
|
Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Granmethedon III
My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right?
The whole POINT in my opinion is that the enemy gang SHOULD be screwed if they log off behind enemy lines.
If someone isn't ENGAGED at the moment of logoff, they should disappear. The current timer already allows for probing with perfect skills and that's as far as it should go. If I want to talk to real people in the real world, then yes, my cellphone IS more important. There's no reason at all why I should be punished in-game for being sane. What this whole stupid whine thread is about is the ability to kill HELPLESS players who are not in the game anymore.
Of course a minority of players will log off as soon as there is a hostile in system. If you can't find your prey quickly enough, then cry more. You're no worse off than if the system turned out to be empty.
One of the unique advantages of EVE is that it doesn't force people to play 24/7 to have any impact on the game. If hardcore measured by the hours you're stuck to your keyboard is what you're after then go play WoW, Lineage or Tibia. (where, I might add, the logoff timer isn't even close to what we have in EVE).
This is a game of SPACE combat. Stop forcing people to operate from cities/inns or go back to other MMOs. 0.0 warfare is already too POS-centered, don't make things worse.
I've never played another MMO so most of your references are wasted I'm afraid....
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BestPrices
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:23:00 -
[55]
I just thought that I would put in here a link to how the logout timer works currently:
http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=104
As you can see, if you are able to get a shot off, you can hold the person in system for 15 minutes.
Lets take a hypothetical: Lets assume that there is an eve mechanic where you can logout and disappear in space 15 minutes from when you declare that you are logging out. During this time you can either disconnect, or pilot around for 15 minutes.
1.) There is always someone hunting you when you are about to log out.
2.) A person would have found and engaged you within those 15 minutes (most experienced players would continue warping between safe spots, if they knew there were hostiles in system.
What are the results:
1.) Logging out becomes a chore, you have to wait 15 minutes (and potentially do nothing except warp and jump during that time).
2.) It gives a distinct advantage to groups ganking. I have no problem with Ganking, I have a PvP character and I run/go on ops Ganking all the time. But honestly, with scan-probes and/or a talented scout, the ganking group already has a huge advantage over the gankee, in terms of both perpetration and numbers. Are you saying that you need more of an advantage to kill an already unprepared opponent? Its just sad.
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Jesum
Amarr
Warmongers
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Awox
I crash all the time. I don't care. I have people log off on me more often, but hey, think of all the business CCP could lose from:
auto-logoffski ISK macrobots in 0.0
0.0 carebears (how many RA, TCF, -A-, etc are in-game)
and losers in general..
CCP care about $$$ more than a clean game.
Prove him wrong CCP, prove him wrong!
Make the changes! Boo-ya.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 21:33:00 -
[57]
Originally by: BestPrices
Originally by: Granmethedon III
My argument is that if your cellphone is more important than your ship in eve, then you're not too fussed about losing that ship, right?
Or maybe I just have sane priorities concerning the importance of a video game vs. the importance of my real world obligations? If you think EVE is always more important than your cellphone, you've clearly never had a girlfriend or a job.
One of the draws of EVE for me is that I don't have to play 8 hours a day to have the skills to use decent ships (buying, however may be a longer term thing for me).
I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 22:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game.
Oh, but I care. Only in game. Yet there is a world of difference between going AFK in the middle of an action or leaving your ship at a gate and logging off in a safespot, unengaged. The latter shouldn't incur severe in-game penalties. This game is great but not perfect. No reason to turn a mostly out-of-game activity into an in-game chore.
---
I am violence boat
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.12.07 22:33:00 -
[59]
Offlining all modules, 0 cap, 0 shield, 5-10 min timer when you log in - something like that is fine imo.
But there needs to be a way to "escape" when you are blobbed up in a system, otherwise it is just too drastic for smallgangs/roaming, e.g carebear 0.0 napland heavens...
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 22:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Granmethedon III
I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game.
Oh, but I care. Only in game. Yet there is a world of difference between going AFK in the middle of an action or leaving your ship at a gate and logging off in a safespot, unengaged. The latter shouldn't incur severe in-game penalties. This game is great but not perfect. No reason to turn a mostly out-of-game activity into an in-game chore.
If you cared that much then, you wouldn't take the call, and be the sad lowlife you were accusing me of being....
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 22:52:00 -
[61]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Offlining all modules, 0 cap, 0 shield, 5-10 min timer when you log in - something like that is fine imo.
But there needs to be a way to "escape" when you are blobbed up in a system, otherwise it is just too drastic for smallgangs/roaming, e.g carebear 0.0 napland heavens...
Newsflash - most gangs don't have a prober.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 23:35:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Granmethedon III
I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game.
Oh, but I care. Only in game. Yet there is a world of difference between going AFK in the middle of an action or leaving your ship at a gate and logging off in a safespot, unengaged. The latter shouldn't incur severe in-game penalties. This game is great but not perfect. No reason to turn a mostly out-of-game activity into an in-game chore.
If you cared that much then, you wouldn't take the call, and be the sad lowlife you were accusing me of being....
You fail to see the myriad possibilities between your "log off and die" and the instant disappearance from the game.
---
I am violence boat
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Jolnas Arbiter
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Posted - 2007.12.07 23:41:00 -
[63]
I thought 0.0 is all about having your team mates look after you? This is a great idea and I fully recomend it... especially for 0.0.
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Osunn
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Posted - 2007.12.07 23:54:00 -
[64]
Regarding the op's ideas from UO. Yes it worked that way BUT you could recall to an inn from almost anywhere on the map. So good idea, I just want to be able to jump to any system I have bm'ed before logging out. Just like UO.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.08 00:22:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 08/12/2007 00:24:44
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 08/12/2007 00:22:15
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Granmethedon III
I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game.
Oh, but I care. Only in game. Yet there is a world of difference between going AFK in the middle of an action or leaving your ship at a gate and logging off in a safespot, unengaged. The latter shouldn't incur severe in-game penalties. This game is great but not perfect. No reason to turn a mostly out-of-game activity into an in-game chore.
If you cared that much then, you wouldn't take the call, and be the sad lowlife you were accusing me of being....
You fail to see the myriad possibilities between your "log off and die" and the instant disappearance from the game.
No I see all the possibilities. You just fail to see a situation free from risk. I already expressed my personal preference earlier that any choice to log off would leave your ship at that point til you logged back in regardless. But then I also acknowledged that server constraints and whiners might object to this. All I really ask is that loggoffski not be a way to avoid the inevitable, whether it be a genuine reason to do so or otherwise.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.12.08 00:25:00 -
[66]
I don't really see what is so hard about answering the phone, and getting yourself out of trouble. Multitasking just isn't quite as hard as you might think it is.
And the OP here, is quickly becoming one of the worst posters. 0 for 3 from what I've seen.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.08 00:29:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Osunn
Regarding the op's ideas from UO. Yes it worked that way BUT you could recall to an inn from almost anywhere on the map. So good idea, I just want to be able to jump to any system I have bm'ed before logging out. Just like UO.
You can. There is a station in virtually every constination. Of course, if raiding space, you have to make it back alive....
Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig |
Granmethedon III
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.08 00:30:00 -
[68]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
I don't really see what is so hard about answering the phone, and getting yourself out of trouble. Multitasking just isn't quite as hard as you might think it is.
And the OP here, is quickly becoming one of the worst posters. 0 for 3 from what I've seen.
Only women can multi-task, or didn't your wife beat that into you?! 
I agree wholeheartedly.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.08 00:36:00 -
[69]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
I don't really see what is so hard about answering the phone, and getting yourself out of trouble. Multitasking just isn't quite as hard as you might think it is.
And the OP here, is quickly becoming one of the worst posters. 0 for 3 from what I've seen.
That was just an example. If my dog asks me to take her for a walk or pizza arrives, that's an equally good reason to leave the game.
It's a fracking game, a piece of software, not a mirror universe. I'd never logoffski but the inability to close the game at any time if I'm not fighting/on timer would make the game much less entertaining for me. At the same time gankers would receive an undeserved, inexplicable advantage while trying to kill my ship
I'm trying to be open here but I just can't see any merit to this idea. How balanced would that be in terms of risk vs reward? Is this the equivalent of whining PKs from other MMOs demanding permanent death feature for all pvp servers?
---
I am violence boat
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Im Dumb
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:06:00 -
[70]
I think the 5 to 7 min logg off timer would do alot of good. Fare to many people log off just to not get killed and log back in, in a few min to keep on getting on. It makes garding your own space from rating carebears a pain some times. 5 to 7 min would stop this as anyone can scan them down easy. To balance this tho, logging at a POS should have no timer on it. Just safety warp off and vanish mid warp. This way if you need a place to hide or safe log off in your own space but no stations are around just go to a POS. Will also give POS another roll.
Another option would be to add constilation sov into it. If your alliance/corp have sov of the constilation you can have a lowered wait or no wait.
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Eralus
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:12:00 -
[71]
You can tell who the pansies are, because they argue that things shouldn't be changed because you should be able to log out whenever you want.
And you should. And you will be able to. But if you log out when someone else is coming to get you, then you should stand a good chance of getting killed. The other person's game shouldn't suffer just because they happened to show up when you were going to go get dinner.
Here is what I would suggest:
- Let people with aggression timers use jump gates, but not warp-to-zero. That way you can actually escape, if the attacking party isn't keeping the gates locked down.
- You can instantly log out anytime when your system is empty, or only has gang/corp/alliance mates.
- If you log out/drop connection with hostiles in the system (0.0 and maybe lowsec) you stay in space for 5 minutes. If you get tagged in that time, normal aggression mechanics apply.
So, people who just want to log out in space still can. At worst, you just have to get away to an empty system to do it.
_____
Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Eralus
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:15:00 -
[72]
Or...
Just get rid of local. You won't know the gankers are there, but they won't know you're there either.
_____
Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:23:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Also the repeated client login trick should be quashed.
I recently had this happen to me with three unescorted freighters, trundling though lowsec without a care in the world. Jumped into a camp and logged off. Then gloated about it at a later date. This is the first and only time Ive ever petitioned a player, and the reply was along the lines of "CCP cant tell people when they can and cant play". What a cop out.
Did they do the client-swaps-characters trick to force the other character off immediately? CCP should definitely be able to tell when a character logs off and the same account immediately logs on an alt to force the main offline.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Harason Grant
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:27:00 -
[74]
I have yet to read everything but as far as hiding might go hum cloaking device? As much as I hate the way they work when hunting someone making use of them they do work.
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:49:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Woolygimp
Originally by: yosef kaldhu
isnt there already a thing were you fly to deadspace and there for 15 mins but if you warp jammed whn u logg off your ships stays there and if tht is blown up ur pod will stay there for 15 mins and then it will disappear or did i just imagine tht bit of information????
The problem is people logging as soon as hostiles show up in local.
Actually, I'd say the problem is with your sense of entitlement.
If you can't manage to flag someone's aggression timer, then you have no claim to impose them to stick around and let you pew pew.
For extra irony goodness, there's nothing more amusing than those demanding to shoot at a pilot who's technically logged off, under the pretense that the current situation isn't fair. 
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Miharu Murakuma
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:53:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Eralus
You can tell who the pansies are, because they argue that things shouldn't be changed because you should be able to log out whenever you want.
And you should. And you will be able to. But if you log out when someone else is coming to get you, then you should stand a good chance of getting killed. The other person's game shouldn't suffer just because they happened to show up when you were going to go get dinner.
Here is what I would suggest:
- Let people with aggression timers use jump gates, but not warp-to-zero. That way you can actually escape, if the attacking party isn't keeping the gates locked down.
- You can instantly log out anytime when your system is empty, or only has gang/corp/alliance mates.
- If you log out/drop connection with hostiles in the system (0.0 and maybe lowsec) you stay in space for 5 minutes. If you get tagged in that time, normal aggression mechanics apply.
So, people who just want to log out in space still can. At worst, you just have to get away to an empty system to do it.
Unnecessary. It's already possible to probe someone after the emergency warp out. If you don't have all the perfect scanning skills and imps, then you're **** out of luck. You can compare the situation to warping between multiple safes. If you can't catch people during the present logoff timer, you won't catch them between safespots. No reason at all to make the gankers' lives disproportionately easier. And to reverse your logic: my dinner shouldn't suffer because someone happened to show up. Either they're on me and I get the timer or I'm free to log.
As someone pointed out earlier, there's way too much POS hugging and station camping in the game already. Forcing people to go there every time they want/need to log is downright ********.
Sorry you won't get those killmails for people who can't:
a) shoot back
b) sit in front of their PC until you get bored and leave
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Trev Kachanov
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:08:00 -
[77]
I used to crash all the time and i still died because it took the server 60-90 seconds to realize i was gone and start the emergency warp. Ctrl-q immediately starts ewarp, and you're gone from space in 60 seconds from when you hit ctrl-q.
I'm all for 5 minutes.
Don't trip |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:29:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Eralus
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Your suggestion of 7 minutes mean that a player can leave the game with no one in local and return to find his ship destroyed and himself killed.
There's the answer. You can log out immediately in any empty system. If the system isn't empty, then you get the timer. Hell, CCP could even be nice and give you a warning message if you attempt to log out in a non-empty, non-high-sec system.
Another no solution. As pointed several times non empty is different from presence of enemies or even neutrals. With this "alternate" proposal a friendly in system will block you ship from despawning.
The current system is fine: aggressed 15 minutes timer / non aggressed 2 minutes.
Worsening that is only gifting free kills to people that like to pick easy targets.
The most idiot part is that most of you think that it will increase your killboards list, while it will decrease them as people will avoid low sec and contested 0.0 even more.
In the past low sec and 0.0 ninja mining was common enough,now practically no one try it. Lowered rewards are only one of the reasons, the other is increased risk as the pirates are constantly increasing in numbers wile the targets dwindle.
Every time a new tool for blocking escape is added you loose targets.
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MisEllaneous
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:31:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Wranglers 'cold hard universe', which has been shown to be empty words many times before , is made even more farcical ever time this happens. Even the much derided 'hello kitty online' has implemented measures to counter kitty-logging.
SKUNK
QFT
Non-consentual pvp is nearly dead in eve. It is what made Eve (atleast 0.0) so great. First it was the wcs, now its cloaks (STILL NOT COUNTERED CCP??) and insta-loggers.
The fact that there all these npc corp ravens is a testament to CCP's failures.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:44:00 -
[80]
I'd just remove the ability for people to see you and be seen in local. Would solve all problems in my opinion.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:48:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 08/12/2007 00:24:44
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 08/12/2007 00:22:15
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: Granmethedon III
I think you missed my point. If I die in game because I answer my phone to my girlfriend, I personally don't really care. It's a game.
Oh, but I care. Only in game. Yet there is a world of difference between going AFK in the middle of an action or leaving your ship at a gate and logging off in a safespot, unengaged. The latter shouldn't incur severe in-game penalties. This game is great but not perfect. No reason to turn a mostly out-of-game activity into an in-game chore.
If you cared that much then, you wouldn't take the call, and be the sad lowlife you were accusing me of being....
You fail to see the myriad possibilities between your "log off and die" and the instant disappearance from the game.
No I see all the possibilities. You just fail to see a situation free from risk. I already expressed my personal preference earlier that any choice to log off would leave your ship at that point til you logged back in regardless. But then I also acknowledged that server constraints and whiners might object to this. All I really ask is that loggoffski not be a way to avoid the inevitable, whether it be a genuine reason to do so or otherwise.
For that to work it should:
a) be possible to warp to not bookmarked/near an object points in space
b) the time to scan a ship should be adjusted to reflect the effect of distance from the probe and the ship (seeing as in EVE the scan of the probes is limited to the speed of light). That will mean 8 minutes at least for every AU of distance (8 light minutes = 1 AU), it thrut they should 16 (send signal, bounce on ship and read the return signal).
c) the reachable part of every system should reflect the size of a true solar system, to the point of the thousand of AU.
That solution is unacceptable for a game as almost no one will wait in a system for a reply that will require minutes to hours to locate a pilot that can return and warp away at any time and as it will make a following a target that just warped away very hard.
So as it is not possible to reflect a reality where a ship can lose itself in the far space the other solution is to give a mechanic that reach the same result, i.e. the ship despawning.
Bot in fiction and in reality it is possible to "disappear" in something as large as a solar system, so it should be possible in a game as complex as EVE.
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Offlining all modules, 0 cap, 0 shield, 5-10 min timer when you log in - something like that is fine imo.
But there needs to be a way to "escape" when you are blobbed up in a system, otherwise it is just too drastic for smallgangs/roaming, e.g carebear 0.0 napland heavens...
Newsflash - most gangs don't have a prober.
Newsflash - everyone would have prober in the gang if they knew it would secure them kills.
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Zanarkand
Gallente
Enterprise Estonia
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:29:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Zanarkand on 08/12/2007 19:30:18
All those talks about 5min+ timers are not okay...
This would be a too drastic nerf for small corps/gangs, who roam around in hostile space. Big alliances would just blob up small hostile gangs, wait a little and get the kills. Roaming around in small gangs would be suicidial and no-one would do it anymore... big 100% safe carebear naplands is not part of the "riskful" 0.0
Small gangs/corps have been nerfed bad enough thanks to local, capitals, jumpbriding etc... I don't think they need more nerfs...
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Nycha
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:38:00 -
[84]
As long as the connection closed to server bug isnt fixed the OT proposal will only harm.
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