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Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression 232	Posted - 2012.02.04 05:57:00 - [31] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Terminal Insanity wrote: The stats arnt entirely usable because they dont include the ammount of isk destroyed, but does include Insurance buys/pays Incursions are simply the best isk source in the game, hands down. If you are an experienced PvE'er, just try it. It makes more money then 0.0 space or even wormhole space (wh space is much more difficult to maintain then regular 0.0 as well.) Incursions are pouring isk into the system, which is what accounts for the hike in PLEX prices i believe. (inflation) While most of us are still making money the way we did pre-incursions, we are still treating our money with the 'old value' of it... while the incursions have watered down the value of isk and prices are generally going up. It doesnt matter to Incursion people because they're getting their pockets packed, but the rest of eve is going to start hurting soon Proof please. CCP has stated that inflation is approx 1%/month. That is their number, not mine, not something made up. 12%/ year is nothing in this game. Trit alone has gone up 10% in the past month alone. Let's blame that on the Incursion runners too. Clearly, if they were not running Incursions they would be mining trit, therefore driving trit prices down. Are you saying that the introduction of incursions has had zero impact on the economy? You're honestly claiming incursions are not a significantly larger income source then previous sources? Just try it dude... you'll see. You can earn enough to buy carriers in a matter of hours. Everyone i know who used to run DED sites now just follows incursions around. My corp used to run 2 wh's and they've just abandoned those last week in favor of incursions.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1927	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:00:00 - [32] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Andski, how many Incursion runners have Tech moons, and MUTLIPLE 50m/hr anoms without moving out of a single system every frigging day? EVERY frigging day. GTFO...... Better yet. Get off your fat lazy moonsucking ass and go kill some Incursion runners yourself - go on, go kill some of those 10b shineys. Oh, sorry, what's that? Busy.... Guffaw. If you're indicative of a quality "CSM candidate" then I hope every Goon in Eve votes for YOUR ass - I will too just to be SURE you're a member Tech moons are nationalized by alliances and they do -not- pump ISK into the economy. 50m/hour anoms in 0.0 are much riskier than high-sec incursions which print out 100m/hour. It is obvious that you've never set foot into nullsec but please continue! andski for csm7~
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 142	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:04:00 - [33] - Quote Andski wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Andski wrote: the price spike on lowends is a result of a nerf to drone anoms the price spike on PLEX is, however, easily attributed to incursions get real moron Really? Prove it. Show me the numbers. Show me CCP's calculations on this subject. Anything else is just propaganda. wow you totally glossed over the whole "300b pumped into the economy in a day" tweet http://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Diagoras/status/165446008912871424 any more bullshit you want to throw my way? Gee, considering I was the one who posted the 302 B number, and then went on to show that represents 24% of the PvE bounties, don't think I missed it. 302 billion daily is a drop in the bucket in the Eve economy. But discussing anything with a Goon is pointless. I would have a more intelligent conversation talking to that gorilla that can sign 300 words.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1927	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:09:00 - [34] - Quote you're totally missing the point or willfully disregarding it get in a covops and head to a lowsec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear then head to a high-sec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear let's be generous and assume that 75% of that figure is from high-sec incursions - that's 227b pumped into the economy with concord protection if you have a hard time realizing why the risk/reward equation is absolutely broken in high-sec you're probably a simian andski for csm7~
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 16	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:11:00 - [35] - Quote Andski wrote: The Apostle wrote: Andski, how many Incursion runners have Tech moons, and MUTLIPLE 50m/hr anoms without moving out of a single system every frigging day? EVERY frigging day. GTFO...... Better yet. Get off your fat lazy moonsucking ass and go kill some Incursion runners yourself - go on, go kill some of those 10b shineys. Oh, sorry, what's that? Busy.... Guffaw. If you're indicative of a quality "CSM candidate" then I hope every Goon in Eve votes for YOUR ass - I will too just to be SURE you're a member Tech moons are nationalized by alliances and they do -not- pump ISK into the economy. 50m/hour anoms in 0.0 are much riskier than high-sec incursions which print out 100m/hour. It is obvious that you've never set foot into nullsec but please continue! 1) So tech income is NEVER used to buy plexes so the trillions generated NEVER have an impact on prices - ONLY Incursions? 2) Nullsec anoms risky. Bullshit. How hard is it when neuts/reds are spotted 10 jumps? Got time to pull the fighters in, have a beer and wander off to a POS. 3) Wrong. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve. I respectfully stand before you. Humble in servitude. TA
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1928	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:21:00 - [36] - Quote 1) Tech ISK is rarely spent on PLEX, fyi! It's alliance ISK - it goes to sov bills, alliance-level programs like ship replacements, etc. 2) As opposed to "lol guys i'm getting shot at, rep me and let concord take care of it" 3) wow you were probably in some renter alliance, you're clearly the expert on nullsec btw, there's ~300 tech moons total the daily extraction from a single tech moon is 2400 tech (100 tech per hour) - assuming that all 300 of those tech moons are being mined, that's 720k technetium daily, or 82.8 billion ISK total (and that ISK changes hands, it isn't created out of thin air) i wonder what the larger problem is, hurr andski for csm7~
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 142	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:25:00 - [37] - Quote Andski wrote: you're totally missing the point or willfully disregarding it get in a covops and head to a lowsec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear then head to a high-sec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear let's be generous and assume that 75% of that figure is from high-sec incursions - that's 227b pumped into the economy with concord protection if you have a hard time realizing why the risk/reward equation is absolutely broken in high-sec you're probably a simian Last post. I am tired of running L4's today, and going to bed. Yeah, I am running L4's because the sole high sec Incursion site is packed. Plus I am angry with myself for getting sucked into yet another pointless discussion with a Goon. The actual % of high sec Incursion payouts is a little over 91%. You would see that John tweeted that also, if you bothered to look. And still, so what? It could be 100% and it would still be a DROP IN THE BUCKET. Your last line states what your agenda is: You want to destroy all high sec income generation because it does not fit YOUR view, not CCP's, not the 67.6% of Eve players who live in high sec (another tweet from John), but YOUR view of risk/return. But hey, your crew will dominate the CSM again, and you will get your way. I don't know why you are so bent out of shape for. I am guessing that by the June release, next December tops, Goons and null sec friends will have persuaded CCP to nerf high sec Incursions, industry, mining, and possibly even L4's.
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 17	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:31:00 - [38] - Quote Andski wrote: i wonder what the larger problem is, hurr It's a quaint and ancient belief that one must die a thousand deaths before one can enjoy a coin for his purse. Oh wait. That was 200 years ago. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve. I respectfully stand before you. Humble in servitude. TA
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1928	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:36:00 - [39] - Quote now you're saying nonsense after i hazed you with the fact that tech is irrelevant in this discussion gj scrub andski for csm7~
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 17	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:41:00 - [40] - Quote Andski wrote: now you're saying nonsense after i hazed you with the fact that tech is irrelevant in this discussion gj scrub now you're saying nonsense after i hazed you with the fact that your comments are irrelevant in this discussion. what the ** are you, a goon? oh wait..... Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.** I respectfully stand before you. Humble in servitude. TA
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 629	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:44:00 - [41] - Quote Another topic full of lies about so called incursion inflation when the numbers themselves that bounties do so much more. And bounties that involve a group are mostly at a low percentage anyway. Yet you can calm down. If there is ANY kind of incursion inflation anyway. (There isn't) A simple force Vanguards to be completed in full will help that. And most agree with that change anyway. But many want to claim Incursions are the devil and they need to be nuked from orbit. Because their nullsec alliance is failing to attract the numbers forced into CTAs as before.
Bel Amar Lapse Of Sanity 26	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:47:00 - [42] - Quote The Apostle wrote: now you're saying nonsense after i hazed you with the fact that your comments are irrelevant in this discussion. Your last two posts have contained no useful information, but did helpfully include a personal attack The person you are attacking however, whilst adding in a personal attack of his own, did at least try and keep discussion relevant to the topic. I can see why you're so annoyed at him "being a goon" when you've gone so far out of your way to have a meaningful discussion...
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 17	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:50:00 - [43] - Quote Bel Amar wrote: The Apostle wrote: now you're saying nonsense after i hazed you with the fact that your comments are irrelevant in this discussion. Your last two posts have contained no useful information, but did helpfully include a personal attack The person you are attacking however, whilst adding in a personal attack of his own, did at least try and keep discussion relevant to the topic. I can see why you're so annoyed at him "being a goon" when you've gone so far out of your way to have a meaningful discussion... <00> ( binos in use ) Goon alt spotted. Stop being so obvious, it's sickening. Andski is ALWAYS first at being a douche, I'd NEVER try to outplay that - he is FAR too clever. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve. I respectfully stand before you. Humble in servitude. TA
Fearless M0F0 Incursion PWNAGE Asc 10	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:51:00 - [44] - Quote According to CCP_Diagoras twitter feed: In average, incursion runners made 300m/month (10m/day) on the last 3 months of 2011 Total incursion payouts are about twice as much as total mission payouts (and they should, since you can't solo a vanguard in a Drake) Incursions add about a third of the isk bounties add to the eve economy.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1928	Posted - 2012.02.04 06:51:00 - [45] - Quote laffo 1000+ posts and that's only garnered you 17 likes so bad andski for csm7~
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 17	Posted - 2012.02.04 07:01:00 - [46] - Quote Andski wrote: laffo 1000+ posts and that's only garnered you 17 likes so bad lolz. Think again. If there's 1000+ posts it's a db glitch. This alt was killed off about 3 months ago with 1800+ I bought him back only yesterday because I missed you guys. Even Mittens knew that. Intel letting you down? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=65278&f=258&q=748018 The Apostle wrote: The Mittani wrote: you deleted your insane forum trolling alt and then re-made it, which is why you're back to 0 likes cute I'm still insane. I'm still an alt. I'm not trolling. As for "likes". They are an abomination. I seek it's irrelevance. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve. I respectfully stand before you. Humble in servitude. TA
Bel Amar Lapse Of Sanity 26	Posted - 2012.02.04 07:15:00 - [47] - Quote The Apostle wrote: <00> ( binos in use ) Goon alt spotted. Wow, you certainly disproved my point!
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 17	Posted - 2012.02.04 07:19:00 - [48] - Quote Bel Amar wrote: The Apostle wrote: <00> ( binos in use ) Goon alt spotted. Wow, you certainly disproved my point! Perhaps you need to spend less time being a self-proclaimed "you dizzed some random dude " moderator if you can't handle the heat. Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for-áalliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.
Bel Amar Lapse Of Sanity 26	Posted - 2012.02.04 07:33:00 - [49] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Perhaps you need to spend less time being a self-proclaimed "you dizzed some random dude " moderator if you can't handle the heat. You're the one complaining about goons...
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 18	Posted - 2012.02.04 07:43:00 - [50] - Quote Bel Amar wrote: The Apostle wrote: Perhaps you need to spend less time being a self-proclaimed "you dizzed some random dude " moderator if you can't handle the heat. You're the one complaining about goons... And you're complaining about me complaining about Goons. And YOU started it.... Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for-áalliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.
Bel Amar Lapse Of Sanity 26	Posted - 2012.02.04 08:00:00 - [51] - Quote The Apostle wrote: And you're complaining about me complaining about Goons I wasn't complaining, I was merely pointing out that you stopped trying to argue the point and went all ad hominem whilst complaining about others behaviour. Don't let me stop you doing that, if you've got some sort of strategy in which acting like a hypocrite that can't keep on topic will somehow prove your point that Incursions aren't broken, by all means, keep going...
Aiwha 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda 125	Posted - 2012.02.04 08:38:00 - [52] - Quote Highsec incursions definitely need a nerf. Not a huge one necessarily, but shaving a bit off the rewards and gimping the ability to stretch them out would work. And yes, tech moons need work too. Nobody gets an easy license to print isk. You either grind your face on the sandpaper of l4 missions or the sandpaper of ratting. Regards, LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 19	Posted - 2012.02.04 09:28:00 - [53] - Quote Bel Amar wrote: Don't let me stop you doing that, if you've got some sort of strategy in which acting like a hypocrite that can't keep on topic will somehow prove your point that Incursions aren't broken, by all means, keep going... Hey. I don't give a rats because I don't believe Incursions do anywhere near "economic harm" they do. It's imaginary and is pure jealousy because the Goons have made a stand on it and they can't back out. I jumped in because Andski doesn't do Incursions or if he does he's a lying SOB. He (like his sheep mates) are self-proclaimed experts on "nobody should be able to enjoy Eve unless he's a Goon". For mine, that ** has gotta stop. My one and only defense is that ANYONE around here from highsec makes the slightest move at "independence" and Goons think they know *** everything and try to roflstomp it. If you don't believe this, post on your main and show me your true colours. Stop sucking up to the Goons and hit 'em hard. They'll you, your game and then in the hole they leave behind and laugh while they do it. Grow up. Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for-áalliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.**
Smoking Blunts ZC Industries Dark Stripes 198	Posted - 2012.02.04 09:31:00 - [54] - Quote Fearless M0F0 wrote: According to CCP_Diagoras twitter feed: In average, incursion runners made 300m/month (10m/day) on the last 3 months of 2011 Total incursion payouts are about twice as much as total mission payouts (and they should, since you can't solo a vanguard in a Drake) Incursions add about a third of the isk bounties add to the eve economy. so not as bad a people think, well at least i thought. 1/3 incursions--- guess thats all sec lvl's 1/6 missions--- empire mostly?? 1/2 ratting--- 0.0 CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
Lucas Quaan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 11	Posted - 2012.02.04 09:51:00 - [55] - Quote The Apostle wrote: 1) So tech income is NEVER used to buy plexes so the trillions generated NEVER have an impact on prices - ONLY Incursions? Technetium and other moon goo/minerals DO NOT GENERATE ISK, they merely redistribute it trough transactions on the market, which overall REMOVES ISK through taxes/fees. We can have whatever argument we want on the relative impact of incursions, inflation and the unfair balance of current moon distribution/usage, but lets at least get this thing right first.
Bel Amar Lapse Of Sanity 26	Posted - 2012.02.04 10:07:00 - [56] - Quote The Apostle wrote: ...and is pure jealousy because the Goons have made a stand on it and they can't back out. @TheMittani: Incursions are probably the coolest PvE/PvP hybrid in EVE right now. Go run one if you haven't yet. Even bittervets approve. #tweetfleet @TheMittani: @Khanhrhh Incursions add social cohesion and teach good pvp habits though (how to run logi gangs), I'm pro-Incursion. Oh look, it's not as black and white as you try and make it. Who knew?
bartos100 DARK ADAMA 5	Posted - 2012.02.04 11:04:00 - [57] - Quote I think most of you forget that there was an offer to buy fanfest tickets with plex and i am sure that that also helped to increase plex prises
Sicex 47	Posted - 2012.02.04 11:09:00 - [58] - Quote Whereas missions seem an unavoidable element of the classic MMO structure which helps indoctrinate the common player to EVE, Incursions (at their current age) represent an immature faucet that needs to be more inline with the other more natural ISK faucets. The main problem of Incursions being the fact they violate EVE's entire risk vs. reward payout structure by even being present in hi-sec.
Ammzi Imperial Guardians Wall of Shadow 807	Posted - 2012.02.04 13:20:00 - [59] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Retweeted 13 hours ago: Feb 1st: 302bn ISK and 4.7m LP handed out as Incursion rewards. Oh my god. I can't believe my calculations on average isk per hour were so accurate!! BOO-yah! (somewhere weeks ago I stated an average isk per hour is 15 b for incursions.) Right here it is. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=639657#post639657 claps himself on shoulder I know, no one cares but let me just enjoy this moment. quote CCP Spitfire "Hello Im Blue,"
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 324	Posted - 2012.02.04 15:31:00 - [60] - Quote Fearless M0F0 wrote: According to CCP_Diagoras twitter feed: In average, incursion runners made 300m/month (10m/day) on the last 3 months of 2011 Total incursion payouts are about twice as much as total mission payouts (and they should, since you can't solo a vanguard in a Drake) Incursions add about a third of the isk bounties add to the eve economy. Actually not too far off my estimate in the OP. But: Remember that if incursions did not exist those incursion runners would be off doing L4s or plexes and generating bounties. The ISK generated would be about half that of Incursions. Result: the extra ISK produced due to the existence of incursions is one sixth or 17% the total. 17% more isk will surely have an effect on the economy, but its not enough to destroy it or cause hyper-inflation. The risk in high sec incursions: True its not from PvP combat, but that is not to say its risk free. You could fly 20 jumps to one just to find no one lets you in a fleet. Or you get into an incompetent fleet that sits doing nothing while trying to get its act together. Or worse, gets your ship exploded by the Sansha. Another risk is there are so many incursion fleets that every site is contested and you get few of the rewards. Do you really think everyone in high sec is so super competent that we all get to run incursions and make 100 mil an hour? CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can.

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