Just how much ISK comes from Incursions? To get some idea I flew to a Vanguard system, sat and watched sites get done. I saw 26 sites drop off the overview over the course of one hour. At 100 million ISK per site, that's 2.6 billion an hour.

Assume the entire incursion generates 4 times that,
Assume there are 2 high sec incursions being worked at any time,

We get 0.5 trillion ISK per day.

Awhile ago, before there were incursions, a Dev posted this:

"A freebie, last 24hrs transaction stats for a selection of faucets and sinks -
as you can see, Concord is a very generous organization!

Trade Total

* Market Transaction 5,848,221,406,963

Faucets
* Bounty Prizes 876,039,478,466
* Agent Mission Reward 68,923,141,163
* Agent Mission Time Bonus 63,450,447,585
* Insurance Payouts 111,942,877,603

Sinks
* Sales Tax 6,227,911,218
* Brokers fee 6,733,818,276
* PI Construction Costs 7,575,185,000
* PI Import Tax 290,289,843
* PI Export Tax 3,355,153,925
* Insurance Cost 43,021,823,156
* Clone Activation 20,197,210,000
* Sovereignty Bill 59,332,000,000
* LP Store 135,343,150,000 "

The total Faucets are 1 trillion ISK per day. High sec Incursion ISK increases the faucet amount by about 50%, assuming those doing Incursions would otherwise be doing nothing. But most likely they would be doing L4s, so maybe high sec Incursions increase the ISK supply rate by around 30%.

CCP: Feel free to provide real numbers here.

Vanguards make 9-10m ISK (Not including LP) depending on if you have 10 or 11 players in a fleet, not 100m

Don't incursions also shut down ratting and combat mission running throughout an entire constellation? That can be a lot of isk prevented from entering the economy, and could easily offset the isk going in.

So anyone who says that Incursions are skewing the game are clearly idiots, or just meta-griefers.

Yesterday (Feb 1st), mission rewards totaled 74.68bn. Mission bonuses a further 71.21bn and Incursion payouts 301.13bn.

mission rewards

10m per site per person * 10 people per fleet, thus 100m per site

Clearly...

remove incursions from high-secturn off the damn server permanently

problem solved, you revitalize lowsec and remove a substantial fountain of risk-free ISK no longer have an isk fountain + nothing to ***** about how someone else is making money. best. idea. ever.

Yes, that was tweeted as well.
So what does that number mean to you?

remove incursions from high-sec

problem solved, you revitalize lowsec and remove a substantial fountain of risk-free ISK

I'm curious why this was just glossed over. Sounds pretty damn solid. Rewards could even be boosted to acknowledge you'd probably need a defense crew on top of the incursion-tacklers.

The stats arnt entirely usable because they dont include the ammount of isk destroyed, but does include Insurance buys/pays

Incursions are simply the best isk source in the game, hands down. If you are an experienced PvE'er, just try it. It makes more money then 0.0 space or even wormhole space (wh space is much more difficult to maintain then regular 0.0 as well.)

Incursions are pouring isk into the system, which is what accounts for the hike in PLEX prices i believe. (inflation)

While most of us are still making money the way we did pre-incursions, we are still treating our money with the 'old value' of it... while the incursions have watered down the value of isk and prices are generally going up.

It doesnt matter to Incursion people because they're getting their pockets packed, but the rest of eve is going to start hurting soon

the price spike on lowends is a result of a nerf to drone anoms

the price spike on PLEX is, however, easily attributed to incursions

get real moron

the price spike on lowends is a result of a nerf to drone anoms

the price spike on PLEX is, however, easily attributed to incursions

get real moron

Really?

Prove it. Show me the numbers.
Show me CCP's calculations on this subject.

Anything else is just propaganda.

The price spike on plex is on you .. my dear goon...
Incursions are 1 year old....
Prices went up when super nerf was anounced

You like to call all others moron... dont you...

Proof please.
CCP has stated that inflation is approx 1%/month.
That is their number, not mine, not something made up.

12%/ year is nothing in this game.
Trit alone has gone up 10% in the past month alone.

Let's blame that on the Incursion runners too.
Clearly, if they were not running Incursions they would be mining trit, therefore driving trit prices down.

Andski, how many Incursion runners have Tech moons, and MUTLIPLE 50m/hr anoms without moving out of a single system every frigging day?

EVERY frigging day.

GTFO......

Better yet. Get off your fat lazy moonsucking ass and go kill some Incursion runners yourself - go on, go kill some of those 10b shineys. Oh, sorry, what's that? Busy.... Guffaw.

If you're indicative of a quality "CSM candidate" then I hope every Goon in Eve votes for YOUR ass - I will too just to be SURE you're a member

wow you totally glossed over the whole "300b pumped into the economy in a day" tweet

http://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Diagoras/status/165446008912871424

any more bullshit you want to throw my way?

Tech moons are nationalized by alliances and they do -not- pump ISK into the economy.

50m/hour anoms in 0.0 are much riskier than high-sec incursions which print out 100m/hour.

It is obvious that you've never set foot into nullsec but please continue!

you're totally missing the point or willfully disregarding it

get in a covops and head to a lowsec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear

then head to a high-sec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear

let's be generous and assume that 75% of that figure is from high-sec incursions - that's 227b pumped into the economy with concord protection

if you have a hard time realizing why the risk/reward equation is absolutely broken in high-sec you're probably a simian

i wonder what the larger problem is, hurr

now you're saying nonsense after i hazed you with the fact that tech is irrelevant in this discussion

gj scrub

now you're saying nonsense after i hazed you with the fact that your comments are irrelevant in this discussion.

Your last two posts have contained no useful information, but did helpfully include a personal attack

The person you are attacking however, whilst adding in a personal attack of his own, did at least try and keep discussion relevant to the topic.

I can see why you're so annoyed at him "being a goon" when you've gone so far out of your way to have a meaningful discussion...

laffo 1000+ posts and that's only garnered you 17 likes

so

bad

I'm still insane. I'm still an alt. I'm not trolling.

As for "likes". They are an abomination. I seek it's irrelevance.

<00> ( binos in use ) Goon alt spotted.

Wow, you certainly disproved my point!

Perhaps you need to spend less time being a self-proclaimed "you dizzed some random dude " moderator if you can't handle the heat.

You're the one complaining about goons...

And you're complaining about me complaining about Goons

Don't let me stop you doing that, if you've got some sort of strategy in which acting like a hypocrite that can't keep on topic will somehow prove your point that Incursions aren't broken, by all means, keep going...

According to CCP_Diagoras twitter feed:

• In average, incursion runners made 300m/month (10m/day) on the last 3 months of 2011
• Total incursion payouts are about twice as much as total mission payouts (and they should, since you can't solo a vanguard in a Drake)
• Incursions add about a third of the isk bounties add to the eve economy.

1) So tech income is NEVER used to buy plexes so the trillions generated NEVER have an impact on prices - ONLY Incursions?

...and is pure jealousy because the Goons have made a stand on it and they can't back out.

Retweeted 13 hours ago: Feb 1st: 302bn ISK and 4.7m LP handed out as Incursion rewards.

According to CCP_Diagoras twitter feed:

• In average, incursion runners made 300m/month (10m/day) on the last 3 months of 2011
• Total incursion payouts are about twice as much as total mission payouts (and they should, since you can't solo a vanguard in a Drake)
• Incursions add about a third of the isk bounties add to the eve economy.

remove incursions from high-sec

problem solved, you revitalize lowsec and remove a substantial fountain of risk-free ISK

I'm curious why this was just glossed over. Sounds pretty damn solid. Rewards could even be boosted to acknowledge you'd probably need a defense crew on top of the incursion-tacklers.

you're totally missing the point or willfully disregarding it

get in a covops and head to a lowsec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear

then head to a high-sec incursion system and see how fast the sites disappear

let's be generous and assume that 75% of that figure is from high-sec incursions - that's 227b pumped into the economy with concord protection

if you have a hard time realizing why the risk/reward equation is absolutely broken in high-sec you're probably a simian

Because it is as stupid an idea as moving lvl 4's to low - sec always has been. (2008 wants it's whine back).

Why is it stupid?

The amout of isk people are making in these things is far too high for laughable risk they face. Nerfing high sec payouts to be more in line while keeping the current rates in low sec would be a good thing for the game as it gives people a good reason to go into low sec.

Because it's never been proven that *lowering* payouts in hi-sec will achieve the desired result (if, in fact, the desired result is more players in 0.0) - it's just been "assumed". Raising the payouts in null (anoms pre-nerf) were (sorta) proven to bring *some* out, but I've never seen any numbers on daily activity pre/post nerf to actually confirm that people *left* hi-sec (other than the entirely apocryphal "we left because of ... " threads).

And the "far too high" is an assumption/opinion - again, inflation isn't out of control, CCP is pulling economic metrics monthly (as per CSM minutes) and players were "interdicting" hi-sec incursions, limiting payouts since the last full set of numbers came out (csm minutes).

Because it's never been proven that *lowering* payouts in hi-sec will achieve the desired result (if, in fact, the desired result is more players in 0.0) - it's just been "assumed". Raising the payouts in null (anoms pre-nerf) were (sorta) proven to bring *some* out, but I've never seen any numbers on daily activity pre/post nerf to actually confirm that people *left* hi-sec (other than the entirely apocryphal "we left because of ... " threads).

And the "far too high" is an assumption/opinion - again, inflation isn't out of control, CCP is pulling economic metrics monthly (as per CSM minutes) and players were "interdicting" hi-sec incursions, limiting payouts since the last full set of numbers came out (csm minutes).

Asuri, give it up.
It is pointless to argue with these people.

They are ideologues, and any facts you bring up that call into question their warped view of reality are immediately discarded to be replaced with hyperbole, or outright lies.

And as for those with an agenda, basically the goon-like groups, forget it. They are adept liars and any distortion of the truth to further their goals is entirely acceptable, actually encouraged.

I am done trying to defend incursions. There are just too many stupid people or general griefers on these forums to battle them all.

When an activity in high sec makes twice as much isk as 0.0 and lowsec we have a problem. This is why PI was changed to make low sec and 0.0 better options than just staying in high sec.

High sec should never offer the same rewards as low sec and 0.0 do as people will always pick the safest option. Nerfing high sec payouts back will mean people will want to go into low sec to get the massive payouts

Asuri, give it up.
It is pointless to argue with these people.

Never let statistics get in the way of hyperbole.

Two tweets TODAY from CCP_Diagoras (John Turbefield):

14 hours ago: Roughly (from checking out the daily numbers for the last couple of weeks), 950bn per day average in bounty prize rewards.

Retweeted 13 hours ago: Feb 1st: 302bn ISK and 4.7m LP handed out as Incursion rewards.

So that means that of the roughly 1.25 trillion handed out daily by CCP in PVE bounties, approx 24% comes from Incursions.
Of course, that 950 billion in bounty payments have loot associated with it, possibly fantastic faction loot and assorted goodies from 1/10- 10/10 plexes.

In incursions, the single MOM site MIGHT spawn some BPC's, which the Incursion runners MIGHT snag before the ninja looters.

So anyone who says that Incursions are skewing the game are clearly idiots, or just meta-griefers.

You want to see some interesting numbers on just about anything stats related with Eve, follow this twitter.
I just was put on to this site today and was blown away.

http://twitter.com/ccp_diagoras

It shoots massive holes in any arguments about Incursions paying out too much, or skewing the Eve economy.
The sheer size of the Eve economy proves this:

Posted Feb 2: CCP_Diagoras John Turbefield
Total combined trade value of all market transactions in 2011: 2,692,357,631,609,430 ISK. Yes, that's 2.7 quadrillion.

Are you butthurt over other people making isk?

Well, let me know when "an activity in hi-sec makes twice as much isk as 0.0 and lowsec" - I'll get right on that. Incursions pay better in low/null than they do in hi-sec (so far as I know - willing to be proved wrong).

Hi-sec exploration/missions/anoms/ded complexes demonstrably do *not* pay out twice as much as null sec/low-sec equivalents.


A) Hi sec does not have the same rewards as 0.0/low-sec. Or better.
B) People will almost *always* pick the safer option, except that 10 - 15% who have continuously chosen to live full time in 0.0 over the years - the numbers (% of players living in 0.0/low-sec) have remained relatively stable (so far as I know) since I started playing.



Srsly... "cowardly"?



I will never "give it up" as you put it, because I'm not so much defending anything, as trying (years in, still trying) to learn about the game. The forums are a part of that.

I argued against the NPC corp tax because I said it would not accomplish what it set out to accomplish, and I don't believe it did. I argued against the anom nerf, because I *KNEW* it wouldn't accomplish it's goals and it didn't. I argued against (and am still against) moving lvl 4's to low-sec because it will not accomplish it's stated goals. And overall "nerfing" isk generating activities in hi-sec in favor of moving/re-aligning the "risk/reward" ratio to null/low sec won't achieve their stated goals (imho).

Because literally, you *cannot* keep someone out of 0.0 if they want to get there. Either solo or as part of a group. When they are ready, they go.

But it seems like the same absolute % of people have been a part of the null/low/hi split for the last 4 years that I know of (with the addition of WH's taking some small % of all three).

Ah incursion threads.

Tears about other people playing the game in a way someone doesn't like.

Ah incursion threads. Over inflated sense of entitlement getting in the way of acknowledging real issues

CCP_Diagoras In Jan 2012, 91.63% of Incursion payouts were in High sec, 3.31% low sec, 5.07% null sec.