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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Dichotomy
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:05:00 -
[1]
CCP, you need to undo some of the nerfs. Seriously. The Sensor Booster/Dampener and the Tracking Disruptor Nerfs were completely unneccessary and serve only to homogenise an already fairly flat and stale PvP situation, and the drone bandwidth nerfs to ships like the Myrmidon pretty much do the same thing. You need to undo this.
I freely admit, there are some things, like the Nos nerf, which have made the game work better for some people, and not for others, because it encourages other tactics to be used as well. The Nos nerf however, has not made the Nosferatu a useless module - it allows a stable capacitor to be maintained, but it doesn't completely screw over enemies for free.
But there are some nerfs that have, over time, really proved to have no effect on game balance and have only upset players, but you have not reversed them. These are the kind of nerfs you should reverse. The Sensor Booster/Dampener and Tracking Disruptor nerfs are a great example of this - they were absolutely fine before the nerf. They completely screwed up someone's ability to fight, but that was what they were meant to do. That's exactly what ECM did, and still does, because it hasn't been nerfed identically.
Now, Sensor Dampeners are all but useless, Sensor Boosters are an afterthought and the nerf to Tracking Disruptors make the already highly-shaky state of Amarrian EW completely unviable. This doesn't work. This isn't good for PvP. And in PvE, the rats still have the un-nerfed equipment, and, if that wasn't already a show of ridiculous and noncanonical imbalance, none of the EW equipment has any effect against them.
CCP, I understand why you don't undo nerfs - it means owning up to a mistake. Trust me when I say that I, and any other right-thinking EVE player will respect you much, much more if you man up, admit you made one and fix it than if you stubbornly refuse to admit the very existence of those same mistakes.
Scripts should be there to specialise E-War modules, not to make them basically functional.
CCP, please un-nerf some stuff. It won't cause the end of happiness and cute puppies.
-----
The views expressed in these posts, while inarguably correct, are not neccessarily the views of my corporation or alliance.
I never sleep. I wait. |
Jovienus
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:15:00 -
[2]
I agree CCP have gone OTT this time, the torpedo realignment with previous missile types has rendered my poor raven a get in ya face smack you once and hope you don't hit back ship.
WHY CCP why torpedoes were fine, they were balanced, having torpedos out ranging scramblers means targetted ship could run. Now you force Raven pilot to act suicidal just to get close enought to get a shot off! Missiles are range weapons not melee!
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Darth Peanut
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:15:00 -
[3]
Dear OP:
Please following these three instructions.
(1) stop crying
(2) uninstall
(3) go back to WOW
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Dichotomy
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:17:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Darth Peanut
Dear OP:
Please following these three instructions.
(1) stop crying
(2) uninstall
(3) go back to WOW
No.
-----
The views expressed in these posts, while inarguably correct, are not neccessarily the views of my corporation or alliance.
I never sleep. I wait. |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:21:00 -
[5]
It was very obvious that the myrmidon and damps were going to get nerfed sooner or later. The only thing that can be argued is if specialised damps ship should be boosted a bit.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:23:00 -
[6]
:'(
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Jovienus
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Darth Peanut
Dear OP:
Please following these three instructions.
(1) stop crying
(2) uninstall
(3) go back to WOW
I have concluded that the only people that say these kinda things are those who aren't actually affected by the nerfs. If they were then I bet my bottom dollar I'd hear their whining from miles off.
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Donna Maria
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:24:00 -
[8]
I though eve was a grown up game, TBH.
Sensor boosters, tracking disruptors and Dampeners still work, you just now have to choose what you want to boost, disrupt, or dampen. No more one module fits all.
ECM, wasnt around for the hey day, but I have had some jams on enemy ships so it still works, but the day of Multi Spec = win are over.
Nos Nerf, ya, it was a good thing. Now you can use Neuts, but kill your own cap, then switch to a Nos. More micromanagement but you get to do the same thing. Guess what, more micromanagement = more challenge.
OP..
Format computer
Call Verizon or Comcast tell them you want to cancel internet.
Burn computer..
Im the girl momma warned you about..
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me bored
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:27:00 -
[9]
Roll back the stacking nerf and hp buffs!
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Shiner BockBeer
Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
What he said.
Good:
Presenting a clear argument as to why these changes weren't necessary.
Bad:
Following up with this lovely little insult:
CCP, I understand why you don't undo nerfs - it means owning up to a mistake. Trust me when I say that I, and any other right-thinking EVE player will respect you much, much more if you man up, admit you made one and fix it than if you stubbornly refuse to admit the very existence of those same mistakes.
Seriously man, that's just infantile trolling and its not going to work.
Support Pregnant Ambulation! |
Joe Sales
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:43:00 -
[11]
That's not entirely correct. Sensor damps were a hot topic for a long time. Sensor damps deserve to be nerfed to some degree.
However, the other modules were nowhere near the danger zone of nerfing, yet CCP nerfed them. I understand CCP was probably focusing on fleet setups, where people stacked 2-3 sensor boosters and tracking comps. CCP wanted to encourage people to try other setups. That's fine, but those who use those mods for non-fleet setups are badly hit by this nerf. I'd rather see a stronger stacking penalty than 50% decrease in module effectiveness.
Seriously, there's no point in ever fitting a tracking computer now, for anything other than a fleet setup.
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shiner BockBeer
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
What he said.
Good:
Presenting a clear argument as to why these changes weren't necessary.
Bad:
Following up with this lovely little insult:
CCP, I understand why you don't undo nerfs - it means owning up to a mistake. Trust me when I say that I, and any other right-thinking EVE player will respect you much, much more if you man up, admit you made one and fix it than if you stubbornly refuse to admit the very existence of those same mistakes.
Seriously man, that's just infantile trolling and its not going to work.
I believe, technically speaking, that his "infantile trolling" was successful the moment you responded to him, and used an adverb that implies he behaves like an infant.
-Karl
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:46:00 -
[13]
Damps were approaching 06 ECM levels, every ship seemed to use at least one. I dont think the nerfs that bad a thing, probably necessary if Im honest with myself (and I used to fly a nano-damp curse). Im just going to sit back, adapt a bit and see what CCP brings out next - Tech III cant be too far away now...
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Lord XSiV
Amarr
Elysium Labs
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:48:00 -
[14]
Try being Amarr and until then shut your yap about getting nerfed.
You should be happy that CCP only went this far.
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Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:26:00 -
[15]
I'm going to seriously start training Amarr.
They can't possibly be nerfed any more....
Can they?
G
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:29:00 -
[16]
Quote:
The Sensor Booster/Dampener and the Tracking Disruptor Nerfs were completely unneccessary
No. The sensor booster nerf was needed. The sensor dampener nerf was badly needed.
RSD's may have gotten nerfed a bit too much, but they definitely needed a nerfing.
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Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Try being Amarr and until then shut your yap about getting nerfed.
You should be happy that CCP only went this far.
go back to wow, i've seen more than enough wtfpwnage being done by amarr ships to state they aren't as nerfed as people claim they are.
anyhow.. to the OP.. it's not that hard to train cruise missiles.. i mean.. the moment people started moaning about it when it appeared on singularity, you could have started training on cruise missiles and you'd be fielding T2 cruise launchers a week before the patch.
Just because you fail to adapt doesn't mean it is a nerf.
oh and yes, my main used to field torps, now he fields cruise missiles.
It was like a baby, it landed on my lap and was helpless and totally defenseless. Then I shot it and bragged about it on a killboard.
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Ed Gein
lolcat incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jovienus
Originally by: Darth Peanut
Dear OP:
Please following these three instructions.
(1) stop crying
(2) uninstall
(3) go back to WOW
I have concluded that the only people that say these kinda things are those who aren't actually affected by the nerfs. If they were then I bet my bottom dollar I'd hear their whining from miles off.
I have concluded that the only people that whine about nerfs are exploiting something overpowered to the fullest and when its gone realize they have no real pvp skill.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:38:00 -
[19]
ccp you jerks your players are so angry that they all logged on to break the most online record by over 10%  
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 00:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gort
I'm going to seriously start training Amarr.
They can't possibly be nerfed any more....
Can they?
G
Thats what people said before the HP buff in revelations (longer combat = quicker capping out), and before the killing of cap recharge as an asset, and before the NOS nerf, and before the EW nerf.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Achuramale
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 00:47:00 -
[21]
Sensor Dampeners are hardly worthless especially when you consider that the Sensor booster nerf was huge boost for them. I mean what do most people use dampeners for ? reducing locking range, and what do most people use sensor boosters for in non-sniping ships? scan resolution. Considering now most non-sniping ships don't have that extra 60% locking range buffer I don't think the dampener nerf was too much. Tbh I didn't like the idea at first either but eg. sensor boosters, everyone had at least one...doesn't say that they were too poor to be used at least. I personally think this will actually make PvP more fun in the end. |
chiefyuk
Amarr
StateCorp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:49:00 -
[22]
This thread fails!
The only useless nerf was dictor speed. now shush.
------------------------------------------------
You can kill the protester but you cant kill the protest
------------------------------------------------ |
watermelon420
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Try being Amarr and until then shut your yap about getting nerfed.
You should be happy that CCP only went this far.
All you whinners should listen to this guy
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Righteous Deeds
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Posted - 2007.12.11 01:00:00 -
[24]
Nothing needed nerfing OR buffing.
Counter-technologies, skills, and module/ship improvements may have needed to be released. Maybe. And if they did, they needed to be in limited release at first, with improvements coming along as the months/years ticked by. This is how technology works, and it makes for a better game.
It's so simple. You ADD to the game, you don't just change the rules.
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Wacoede
Amarr
Allied Combat Team
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.12.11 01:01:00 -
[25]
if people couldn't see these nerfs coming after the last alliance tournament then you were blind or just that dumb (my personal thought is the alliance tournament is just a way for the devs to observe what tactics are being overused and then nerf them)
using different tactics = good (and this coming from someone who just finished training Recon ships 5 and is Amarr)
_______________________________
Originally by: Avery Fatwallet
when someone sez "eve is too tuff"
standard reply is "can i have stuff?"
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.12.11 01:02:00 -
[26]
Edited by: SoftRevolution on 11/12/2007 01:06:06
Quote:
It's so simple. You ADD to the game, you don't just change the rules.
Yes. Adding yet more content to balance as a counter to existing imbalances is a superb idea.
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.11 01:03:00 -
[27]
Some us actually like Trinity... |
Oddball
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.12.11 01:09:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Scripts should be there to specialise E-War modules, not to make them basically functional.
This.
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Righteous Deeds
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Posted - 2007.12.11 01:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Righteous Deeds on 11/12/2007 01:12:13
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Some us actually like Trinity...
That's as valid an opinion as those of us who dislike almost everything about it. Hope you're having fun. (Even while hoping you're in the minority ;) )
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.11 02:03:00 -
[30]
PLEASE rollback the forum IQ nerf!!!!
since you nerf 98% of all posters IQ to the minimum of r.etarded (81points) it have been impossible to use the forums.. PLEASE unnerf that :P
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Jaikar Isillia
The Vinlanders
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.11 02:34:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jovienus
Originally by: Darth Peanut
Dear OP:
Please following these three instructions.
(1) stop crying
(2) uninstall
(3) go back to WOW
I have concluded that the only people that say these kinda things are those who aren't actually affected by the nerfs. If they were then I bet my bottom dollar I'd hear their whining from miles off.
Yes which is why when the vagabond is nerfed the whining will be glorious and I will bask in its radiance.
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.12.11 02:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jaikar Isillia
Yes which is why when the vagabond is nerfed the whining will be glorious and I will bask in its radiance.
yeah, if they do nerf the vagabond the forums are going to really get interesting. But my bets on the next big nerf are the heavy dictors, within 60 days from today.
Though I'm surprised we haven't seen more minmatar players out on the forums making claims like "Now you know how we feel, try finding a use for a target painter bonus". (Oh, which I recommend using against the heavy 'dictors if you're in a battleship. You're gonna need it.)
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were:
Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
Jaikar Isillia
The Vinlanders
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 02:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Siege
Originally by: Jaikar Isillia
Yes which is why when the vagabond is nerfed the whining will be glorious and I will bask in its radiance.
yeah, if they do nerf the vagabond the forums are going to really get interesting. But my bets on the next big nerf are the heavy dictors, within 60 days from today.
Though I'm surprised we haven't seen more minmatar players out on the forums making claims like "Now you know how we feel, try finding a use for a target painter bonus". (Oh, which I recommend using against the heavy 'dictors if you're in a battleship. You're gonna need it.)
Because everyone flies the cane, claw and vaga.
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Sarah Aubry
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.11 03:57:00 -
[34]
+1 vote for OP to quit eve.
Make your protest really obvious by leaving please :) |
MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.11 04:30:00 -
[35]
I complained a lot about the nerfs. I fly the Myr and the Arazu and the nerfs to those ships are, IMHO, disproportional. I still don't like the nerfs.
Still, after a bit of PVP it doesn't seem to matter that much. Those who won before will still win and those who lost before still lose. If anything it was more of a targeted everyone-nerf like the doubling of hit points. It makes fights longer and, in a round about way, could be considered a nerf to hit and run nanno gangs. If there is a modest request for adjustment that should be considered it is to give a minor boost to ewar specialized ships.
"Least I got chicken." - Leroy Jenkins |
Mallikan
Gallente
Spartan Hoplites
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.12.11 04:40:00 -
[36]
ADAPT.
---
lol.. I messed up.
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Kravick Drasari
Caldari
Setanta Strategic Consultants
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Posted - 2007.12.11 04:55:00 -
[37]
Sensor Dampeners are far from useless. I still use them against interceptors. Lock on time doesn't bother me. In fact, I never used them for the lock on time part anyway. Its the range those little annoying insects fly at pelting you with missiles or whatever. Use a dampener on them and they have to ether go away or fly close enough to get caught in a stasis web.
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LaffyTaffy TR
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Posted - 2007.12.11 04:58:00 -
[38]
Thats alot of fail |
jongalt
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Posted - 2007.12.11 05:05:00 -
[39]
i suppose taking the nerfs on the chin just cant be seen as "manning up".
-jg.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 05:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Gort
I'm going to seriously start training Amarr.
They can't possibly be nerfed any more....
Can they?
G
Thats what people said before the HP buff in revelations (longer combat = quicker capping out), and before the killing of cap recharge as an asset, and before the NOS nerf, and before the EW nerf.
While the HP buff is an Amarr nerf, it was a nerf for none of the reasons that you have listed.
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Colonel Ripper
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.11 05:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Colonel Ripper on 11/12/2007 05:49:09
My biggest issue is the scripts themselves. Why cant we just switch modes? This way its just another piece of junk that someone needs to make and has to sit in my hanger/cargo hold and clutter things up. Otherwise they are fine for me (RSDs were getting out of hand).
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 06:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jovienus
I agree CCP have gone OTT this time, the torpedo realignment with previous missile types has rendered my poor raven a get in ya face smack you once and hope you don't hit back ship.
WHY CCP why torpedoes were fine, they were balanced, having torpedos out ranging scramblers means targetted ship could run. Now you force Raven pilot to act suicidal just to get close enought to get a shot off! Missiles are range weapons not melee!
I agree, caldari ships should also get built in stabs like blockade runners.
I know its hard to pvp with a full rack of stabs but you hang in there caldari <333
And to the op: You say that these changes are proven to hamper the community when they've not been live long enough for most people to even buy scripts.
Fleet battleships will have to change, the long lock time will make them less of a tool of slaughter.
Damps got boosted in their own way, how many ******s fit sensor boosters to bump their killmail whoring ability? i'd say 60% of combat ships in gangs had at least 1 SB before the patch, if they all fit lock speed scripts then Lock Range Dampening is very effective against them.
The drone nerfs suck but drone users are already adapting, our drone HP bonus's are finally usefull.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
Eye of God
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Posted - 2007.12.11 06:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Jovienus
Originally by: Darth Peanut
Dear OP:
Please following these three instructions.
(1) stop crying
(2) uninstall
(3) go back to WOW
I have concluded that the only people that say these kinda things are those who aren't actually affected by the nerfs. If they were then I bet my bottom dollar I'd hear their whining from miles off.
no. every pvp ship setup I have made included a sensor dampener, turret disruptor or ecm. And now, I am happy that a raven can be used in a gatecamp or warp to pilot for the range.
Stop whining that sniper ships can't insta pop frigates anymore. |
NTRabbit
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Enelaise
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:55:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Wacoede
if people couldn't see these nerfs coming after the last alliance tournament then you were blind or just that dumb (my personal thought is the alliance tournament is just a way for the devs to observe what tactics are being overused and then nerf them)
using different tactics = good (and this coming from someone who just finished training Recon ships 5 and is Amarr)
Agreed. The amount of dampening in use during that tournament was ridiculous, as was the effectiveness. It was quite obvious from the outset that RSD's would be on the heavy nerf block very, very soon, and rightly so.
------
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Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2007.12.11 08:46:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Sensor Dampeners are far from useless. I still use them against interceptors. Lock on time doesn't bother me. In fact, I never used them for the lock on time part anyway. Its the range those little annoying insects fly at pelting you with missiles or whatever. Use a dampener on them and they have to ether go away or fly close enough to get caught in a stasis web.
You use them on ceptors.. LMFAO @ you. Woot! way to adapt!
lol
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Jovienus
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Posted - 2007.12.11 08:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ed Gein
Originally by: Jovienus
Originally by: Darth Peanut
Dear OP:
Please following these three instructions.
(1) stop crying
(2) uninstall
(3) go back to WOW
I have concluded that the only people that say these kinda things are those who aren't actually affected by the nerfs. If they were then I bet my bottom dollar I'd hear their whining from miles off.
I have concluded that the only people that whine about nerfs are exploiting something overpowered to the fullest and when its gone realize they have no real pvp skill.
I can guarantee 100% that I have NEVER exploited any known EVE holes or buffs which have then been nerfed. I can say with hand on heart that actually I tend to be a overly clean and fair player giving people too many chances and opportunities to get the upper hand.
And for your notes, I don't by choice do PvP simply since I dislike causing grief to other players who don't deserve it. Not say I haven't popped someone, just don't go around making it a habit like others.
I'm a big believer in letting nature take its course and not alterating the rules every 6 seconds.
-J
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Kravick Drasari
Caldari
Setanta Strategic Consultants
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:21:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 11/12/2007 09:23:00
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 11/12/2007 09:21:43
Originally by: Cleric JohnPreston
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Sensor Dampeners are far from useless. I still use them against interceptors. Lock on time doesn't bother me. In fact, I never used them for the lock on time part anyway. Its the range those little annoying insects fly at pelting you with missiles or whatever. Use a dampener on them and they have to ether go away or fly close enough to get caught in a stasis web.
You use them on ceptors.. LMFAO @ you. Woot! way to adapt!
lol
I've always used them against interceptors. They only have a 30km lock range unless they use sensor boosters and even then they still have to be within 20km to warp scram you. If you dampen them tell me how they're going to stay at 20km and do this? They ether come in close to keep the warp scram on you, only to get webbed and then blown up, or they fly away and leave you alone. I cannot tell you how many times I've had interceptor pilots fly in closer to keep me warp scrammed only to end up in a pod, or worse.
Try thinking out side of the box once in a while.
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Allestin Villimar
Dark Nova Crisis
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Posted - 2007.12.11 10:03:00 -
[48]
To OP:
I, in a maulus with 3 t2 damps, with level 4 EW skills, and L4 gallente frigate, could knock a carrier with 2 faction (sansha or dark blood, think it's the same bonus) sensor boosters, level 5 skills, and 5% implants, down to a 21 km lock on range. Which is basically worthless since you could easily be tackled by an arazu sitting out side yout targetting range while your drones sat there like idiots since you couldn't tell them to attack anyone.
Now if I can do that to a ship which has a huge base lock on range and 2 faction sensor boosters and level 5 skills, think about what that'll do to virtually every other ship in the game.
So for less than a month's training time, and less than 4 million isk, you can lock down any ship in the game that isn't immune to EW. If you're willing to spend a little bit more, you can hop in a celestis and get a little more survivability and knock that range down to around 12 km.
If you think that was balanced, you're an idiot. End of discussion.
Now that being said, I do think the scripts were a bad idea, or at least their usage of them. Right now, the modules are all but worthless without scripts - I agree that scripts should specialize modules, not make them basically useful.
...in bed. |
Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:01:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 11/12/2007 09:23:00
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 11/12/2007 09:21:43
Originally by: Cleric JohnPreston
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Sensor Dampeners are far from useless. I still use them against interceptors. Lock on time doesn't bother me. In fact, I never used them for the lock on time part anyway. Its the range those little annoying insects fly at pelting you with missiles or whatever. Use a dampener on them and they have to ether go away or fly close enough to get caught in a stasis web.
You use them on ceptors.. LMFAO @ you. Woot! way to adapt!
lol
I've always used them against interceptors. They only have a 30km lock range unless they use sensor boosters and even then they still have to be within 20km to warp scram you. If you dampen them tell me how they're going to stay at 20km and do this? They ether come in close to keep the warp scram on you, only to get webbed and then blown up, or they fly away and leave you alone. I cannot tell you how many times I've had interceptor pilots fly in closer to keep me warp scrammed only to end up in a pod, or worse.
Try thinking out side of the box once in a while.
nah m8, i get you, ceptors have never been a problem with damps, ever, the damp nerf makes pvping riskier now in certain ships Vs bigger ships that a ceptor. I was jesting at your wee post, nevermind. ;)
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Sirial Soulfly
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:04:00 -
[50]
One nerf whine thread to rule them all.
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:11:00 -
[51]
Dictor nerf was over the top they are outrun by vagas so either
A: nerf the vaga (not a good solution just break the game even more)
B: set dictor speeds back to what they were we already have our bubbles causing agro and bubbles no longer stopping an already initiated warp isnt that enough??
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Blutreiter
Pelennor Swarm
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:17:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Blutreiter on 11/12/2007 11:17:28
Originally by: Gort
I'm going to seriously start training Amarr.
They can't possibly be nerfed any more....
Can they?
G
Muhaha, check the 26 pages amarr thread in this forum, some guy even believes that we got buffed by a bandwidth nerf and scripts let us "specialize" EW...
...Amarr players have some kind of pavlovian knee-jerk reaction that EVERYTHING that's happening must theoretically be good.
Furthermore, the OP needs some hugs.
Cogito ergo boom
- I think i'll blow sh*t up |
Kravick Drasari
Caldari
Setanta Strategic Consultants
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:23:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Cleric JohnPreston
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 11/12/2007 09:23:00
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 11/12/2007 09:21:43
Originally by: Cleric JohnPreston
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Sensor Dampeners are far from useless. I still use them against interceptors. Lock on time doesn't bother me. In fact, I never used them for the lock on time part anyway. Its the range those little annoying insects fly at pelting you with missiles or whatever. Use a dampener on them and they have to ether go away or fly close enough to get caught in a stasis web.
You use them on ceptors.. LMFAO @ you. Woot! way to adapt!
lol
I've always used them against interceptors. They only have a 30km lock range unless they use sensor boosters and even then they still have to be within 20km to warp scram you. If you dampen them tell me how they're going to stay at 20km and do this? They ether come in close to keep the warp scram on you, only to get webbed and then blown up, or they fly away and leave you alone. I cannot tell you how many times I've had interceptor pilots fly in closer to keep me warp scrammed only to end up in a pod, or worse.
Try thinking out side of the box once in a while.
nah m8, i get you, ceptors have never been a problem with damps, ever, the damp nerf makes pvping riskier now in certain ships Vs bigger ships that a ceptor. I was jesting at your wee post, nevermind. ;)
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you where saying.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:34:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Donna Maria
I though eve was a grown up game, TBH.
Sensor boosters, tracking disruptors and Dampeners still work, you just now have to choose what you want to boost, disrupt, or dampen. No more one module fits all.
So you havent actually used a damp post nerf then.
Indeed Sensor boosters can now have the same functionality as pre nerfed sensor boosters - only in scan res or targetting range.
Dampers however, even with a script in, are nowhere near as good as the old damps. Not only do you have to choose range/scan res damp - your percentange damp has dropped dramatically.
Also they nerfed the damp rig.
Lunacy
Basically, train for a falcon.
SKUNK
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:43:00 -
[55]
*Rabble rabble rabble*
Don't forget to direct your stuff(s) this way everybody... 
(I'll even accept Caldari junk)
----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Laila Eldgorn
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:50:00 -
[56]
Can I have some stuff too?
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Psorion
The Nine Gates
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Posted - 2007.12.11 12:40:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Sensor Dampeners are far from useless. I still use them against interceptors. Lock on time doesn't bother me. In fact, I never used them for the lock on time part anyway. Its the range those little annoying insects fly at pelting you with missiles or whatever. Use a dampener on them and they have to ether go away or fly close enough to get caught in a stasis web.
/Signed. Especially when you fly a Stealth Bomber and they try to get you.. Please please come within 13km Pretty please?? :)
bTw
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Psorion
The Nine Gates
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Posted - 2007.12.11 12:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
To OP:
I, in a maulus with 3 t2 damps, with level 4 EW skills, and L4 gallente frigate, could knock a carrier with 2 faction (sansha or dark blood, think it's the same bonus) sensor boosters, level 5 skills, and 5% implants, down to a 21 km lock on range. Which is basically worthless since you could easily be tackled by an arazu sitting out side yout targetting range while your drones sat there like idiots since you couldn't tell them to attack anyone.
Now if I can do that to a ship which has a huge base lock on range and 2 faction sensor boosters and level 5 skills, think about what that'll do to virtually every other ship in the game.
So for less than a month's training time, and less than 4 million isk, you can lock down any ship in the game that isn't immune to EW. If you're willing to spend a little bit more, you can hop in a celestis and get a little more survivability and knock that range down to around 12 km.
If you think that was balanced, you're an idiot. End of discussion.
Now that being said, I do think the scripts were a bad idea, or at least their usage of them. Right now, the modules are all but worthless without scripts - I agree that scripts should specialize modules, not make them basically useful.
Umm, and if the drones are out and you aggress the carrier dont the drones automatically attack?
Or did this change?
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Donna Maria
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.11 12:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Donna Maria
I though eve was a grown up game, TBH.
Sensor boosters, tracking disruptors and Dampeners still work, you just now have to choose what you want to boost, disrupt, or dampen. No more one module fits all.
So you havent actually used a damp post nerf then.
Indeed Sensor boosters can now have the same functionality as pre nerfed sensor boosters - only in scan res or targetting range.
Dampers however, even with a script in, are nowhere near as good as the old damps. Not only do you have to choose range/scan res damp - your percentange damp has dropped dramatically.
Also they nerfed the damp rig.
Lunacy
Basically, train for a falcon.
SKUNK
Actually, I have used the Dampners both before and after the nerf. Yes they are 'NOT AS$' effective before, but they are effect. Like a previous poster said, I usually use the range nerf on cepters and the resolution nerf on bigger than me ships. Adapt, or die like the rest..
Im the girl momma warned you about..
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Trev Kachanov
Kachanov Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.11 12:53:00 -
[60]
Tbh i thought things were fine as they were. maybe RSD nerf was needed, but only because everyone and their mom was fitting them. They should of just done like ecm; 1/2 the effectiveness double the bonus on the specialized ships and a stacking penalty. Sensor booster should of been dropped to roughly 70-80% of its former effectiveness.
But i imagine they're going to nerf dual bonus modules because they're ******** and they want to push scripts. (dmg mods, tracking enhancers, pds, just because they can).
and to the guy that complained about insta popping frigs in a sniper bs... up your transversal you moron, since they nerfed tracking on t2 you can hit **** especially frigs.
Don't trip |
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Daikoku Fleet Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.12.11 13:45:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jovienus
I agree CCP have gone OTT this time, the torpedo realignment with previous missile types has rendered my poor raven a get in ya face smack you once and hope you don't hit back ship.
WHY CCP why torpedoes were fine, they were balanced, having torpedos out ranging scramblers means targetted ship could run. Now you force Raven pilot to act suicidal just to get close enought to get a shot off! Missiles are range weapons not melee!
I fly a torp raven and I dont mind the change. I just changed my fitting a little.
~Ryoji Tanakama
Daikoku Fleet Shipyards |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:09:00 -
[62]
These mods got reduced in power, but they're still useful.
Rather than whining flagrantly on the forums, then perhaps pointing out _why_ you feel damps and tracking disruptors are now overpowered?
Incuded in your answer should be specific examples of current effectiveness and usage, and also scenarios where you feel they are ineffective, and shouldn't be.
As far as I'm aware, damps can still:
Cut a ship's locking range down to the point where the arazu/lachesis can attack them with impugnity. Or increase locking time by very significant margins.
TDs can still reduce tracking or optimal by a substantial margin. Not both at the same time, true, but you rarely actually _needed_ both at the same time, before trinity.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
CCP, you need to undo some of the nerfs. Seriously. The Sensor Booster/Dampener and the Tracking Disruptor Nerfs were completely unneccessary and serve only to homogenise an already fairly flat and stale PvP situation, and the drone bandwidth nerfs to ships like the Myrmidon pretty much do the same thing. You need to undo this.
Having every second BC in PvP a Myrmidon was making things flat and stale. I agree TDs need some love, though. Bandwidth, as a idea, is good.
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
I freely admit, there are some things, like the Nos nerf, which have made the game work better for some people, and not for others, because it encourages other tactics to be used as well. The Nos nerf however, has not made the Nosferatu a useless module - it allows a stable capacitor to be maintained, but it doesn't completely screw over enemies for free.
But there are some nerfs that have, over time, really proved to have no effect on game balance and have only upset players, but you have not reversed them. These are the kind of nerfs you should reverse. The Sensor Booster/Dampener and Tracking Disruptor nerfs are a great example of this - they were absolutely fine before the nerf. They completely screwed up someone's ability to fight, but that was what they were meant to do. That's exactly what ECM did, and still does, because it hasn't been nerfed identically.
Damps still work with scripts, just you have to choose one or the other. Time will show if they're still effective or need to get a small boost. On the other hand, I think the TDs need some loving. Again, scripts as an idea are good (although I'd prefer if you didn't have to buy/carry them but just had a menu so you can choose which effect you want), wether the modules have been hit too hard we'll see.
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
CCP, I understand why you don't undo nerfs - it means owning up to a mistake.
Most of the things they did aren't mistakes (bandwidth changes, scripted modules). I'd like to see TD efficency boosted though, and practical use will tell if the damps have been hit too hard.
Rifters!
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