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Cost of things.... Unfair?

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Esharan	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:23:00 - [31] Again thanks to everyone for your responses. Its interesting to see what the community thinks these days.. Its possible im wrong and just forgetting myself what it was like years ago... and perhaps its possible it really has gotten harder... either way, thanks again and keep the comments coming if you wish, its interesting to see what you all have to say.
Esharan	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Esharan I challenge any long time player to start a new charector, recieve no help from alts or freinds, and see if its easier, or more difficult to make isk, and make it in the galaxy than it was several years ago. Let us know what your experiances are. I have done it. I came back to EVE after about a 1 year break about 1.5 years ago. At that time I started a new character and had at it. Was loads easier than when I did it the first time around. The only downside was I knew what having more skillpoints was like and it kinda stunk starting with a newbie character but making money was no problem at all. Interesting, ok thanks Jora'h.. Anyone else have similar experiances?
Amuko Amarr Happy Little Roid Huggers	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:24:00 - [33] Edited by: Amuko on 11/12/2007 20:26:19 Edited by: Amuko on 11/12/2007 20:25:17 What are you smoking? I'm not a beta player myself, but from all I heard from (ex) corpmates that did, it was way, way, waaay harder back then to get into a BS then it is now. Also, everything is way cheaper now (and especially tech II stuff), when I started (close to 2 years ago I think), a cap recharger II was...20mil, now it's what, 1.3mil? Invention made fitting your ships decently so much easier. I agree you make a bit less isk on missions then you used to, but you need way less to fit a ship now anyway. Edit: Sounds more agressive then I mean it, sorry . I checked your employment history ingame, if this is your new char, and you're a bit over half a month old, and you say you're ready for a BS? Hell no you're not, you'll need a few months of training at least to be able to fly it anyway decently.
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Esharan Again thanks to everyone for your responses. Its interesting to see what the community thinks these days.. Its possible im wrong and just forgetting myself what it was like years ago... and perhaps its possible it really has gotten harder... either way, thanks again and keep the comments coming if you wish, its interesting to see what you all have to say. hell if you want to learn some really effective scams jstu convo me ingame, im always happy to help out --------------------------- Im in your systemz scanning your moonz
Esharan	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:27:00 - [35] Originally by: Amuko Edited by: Amuko on 11/12/2007 20:25:17 What are you smoking? I'm not a beta player myself, but from all I heard from (ex) corpmates that did, it was way, way, waaay harder back then to get into a BS then it is now. Also, everything is way cheaper now (and especially tech II stuff), when I started (close to 2 years ago I think), a cap recharger II was...20mil, now it's what, 1.3mil? Invention made fitting your ships decently so much easier. I agree you make a bit less isk on missions then you used to, but you need way less to fit a ship now anyway. I checked your employment history ingame, if this is your new char, and you're a bit over half a month old, and you say you're ready for a BS? Hell no you're not, you'll need a few months of training at least to be able to fly it anyway decently. Good points, no need to get angry.. but yea i can fly a raven ish... i mean i can use siege launchers, shield hardeners, t2 ballistic controls, power diag 2's and xlarge shield boosters.. its a basic fitting, but i think i could do easy lvl 4's dont you?
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:27:00 - [36] Edited by: Larg Kellein on 11/12/2007 20:29:47 Originally by: Esharan Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I have been in EVE for 4+ years so trust me when I say earning money is far easier today than it ever has been. As someone mentioned above there was a time when getting into a battleship was the most uber thing you could do and it took literally weeks of work to afford one. Now I can earn enough on L4 missions alone in a good day of missioning to buy one. And while a wealthy player certainly has advantages by being in the game longer that is true of any game. You do not start any game the wealthiest or with the most leet gear but have to work up to it and all the people ahead of you can do that more easily. Besides, while someone may be wealthy that can go rather quickly. When you are flying ships worth billions (ship cost plus mods such as carriers and dreads) you do not have to lose too many before all the but the most wealthy of players would feel the pinch. In the meantime joining a player run corp is a good way to bootstrap new players into better stuff faster. Corps differ of course but for instance in my corp I will often split a mining Op 50/50 despite them being in an Osprey and me a Hulk. Add to that we sell ships/mods to members at cost (and in the case of frigs usually just give them away). Help them in missions and so on. Lots of ways to improve your efficiency when hooked-up with more senior players and most will help younger members in that. thats my point... of course you can make the money to buy a BS in quickly, your highly trained, already have the assets to do the missions solo ect. ect. what about a month old charector thats been spammin lvl 1's, 2's and 3's all of which now give significantly less reward... it takes double the time i'd say than it used to... and iplayed back when a BS was a godsend too.. but then it was more because we were all new, and it just took that time to train the skill... i remember pretty much as soon as i could fly a BS i could afford one... with my new char, with my exp. in making isk... i can fly a BS but am sitting as 32 million... ages away from being able to buy a raven because missions just dont yeild the same isk they used too. The problem is that mission running (specifically level 4s in empire) was disproportionally profitable compared to other sources of income, including mining and even 0.0 ratting, and that's completely ignoring the lack of reward for the added risk of lowsec which is still limiting the choice to either empire or 0.0 for money making for a huge segment of players. So yes, level 4 running in empire is less profitable than it used to (I know, I did more of my share of them before I joined my current corp), but the money making options are still out there. For example, look at exploration. Being able to somewhat reliably pick up things like encryption skillbooks is a nice way to make money and doesn't require years of training. There's also salvaging, which is an easy way to make isk for new players that was not previously available. And with the LP store, you've eliminated the previously random factor of agent offers more more reliable income. So as others have mentioned, you may make less isk now, but (ridiculos items like officer mods aside) the purchasing power of that isk hasn't really diminished, considering the price drop on inventable items.
Amuko Amarr Happy Little Roid Huggers	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:28:00 - [37] Meh, guess so, I'm not a caldari pilot, and let me tell you something, try it in another race's battleships, now that's hard at 15 days
Shadow Engineer Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:31:00 - [38] This is why new people don't need to be in large expensive ships: http://kb.endless-horizon.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3828
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:32:00 - [39] I KNOW.. like when I was 6 years old... when I had contributed nothing to the world or my own personal wealth... a Ferrari for $100,00 was SOOOO unfair.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar Core Element	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:33:00 - [40] speeking as a relatively new character and new player I can say with certantie that EVE has the easiest time of any mmo out there to make money. With salvage I'm pulling in 1-2 million per level 2 mission. for a new player that is alot. its mods and frigates to lose in pvp. Now if I stayed at that rate ofcouse I can't get things like cariers and the like but at the level I was at then I wouldnt be able to fly one. In my experiential opinion my income increases in tandem with my need for it. I'm running lvl 3 missions now (with lvl 4 access but unsoloable) and ratting in 0.0 and my income is 20 million an hour. Now if I actually spent 5 hours at a time doing that I'd be rich very quickly for what I want but as I tend to only do it for 2 hours then there you go. two more ships to destroy in pvp :D. Final thought is that its not the isk making ability that is gimped but your expectation that is overextended. Search: Sky Grunthor
Esharan	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:33:00 - [41] Thanks Larg for your response, makes alot of sense to me.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:39:00 - [42] if you skill up and play the game you will find ways to make hundreds of millions a month maybe billions if you spend a little more time if you do nothing but post on the forums you will never afford a battleship even without fittings Trashed sig, Shark was here
Karma Gallente Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:44:00 - [43] this isn't a game where everything drops into your lap after a day, a week, or a month or even for several years. the things that cost in the billions, you can't really use them 'correctly' until your character is atleast a year old. (as in, has the support skills for it). by the time you do have the skills for it, though... you'll probably also have the ISK to buy them. if you focus ;-)
Franga Caldari NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:50:00 - [44] Originally by: Arvald A lot of stuff about how he's superior at ISK making. This guy is also a died in the blood scammer. _____________________________ Eldo spanked my sig but I can't be bothered changing it just now.
Zinras	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:51:00 - [45] Edited by: Zinras on 11/12/2007 20:52:05 I can't say anything about how easy it was to make ISK back in the day but I do know that making ISK now is pretty damn easy. The age of my character lies a bit since I made it on a trial in the beginning of the year and only payed for it this summer (so I'm really some 5-6 months old). I've already had 2 Ravens, 6 Drakes and god knows how many frigs/cruisers/ other stuf in that time and I'm a pretty casual player (doing 2-3 missions per day and go hunting once in a while). And honestly, if I didn't spend ISK on stuff I don't really need, I could buy a Raven every week and fit it with no problem at all. I could even take a break from the Raven buying for a week and buy myself a full set of +4 implants using the LP store.. So yeah, getting stuff is pretty easy and if you're in a corp with nice people like I am, you can get stuff even easier by loaning some ISK or get part of the profits from a mining op, not to mention there are PvP ships available for free etc
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:02:00 - [46] Edited by: Arvald on 11/12/2007 21:03:28 Originally by: Franga Originally by: Arvald A lot of stuff about how he's superior at ISK making. This guy is also a died in the blood scammer. eh? and i wasnt saying i am superior at making isk....well....ok i guess i was and jsut because im good at making isk dosent mean im good at keeping it, i have a soft spot for helping out noobs i keep maby 40% of what get yeah sad i know --------------------------- Im in your systemz scanning your moonz
mechtech Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:06:00 - [47] It's sooo much easier now than it used to be. A BS used to actually be a rich person's toy.
Terail Zoqial	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:34:00 - [48] Man, that's soooooo funny, I mean in any other game...or in life, you don't expect things to be so easily available. As for the "it seems alot harder for new players to make isk these days", ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?!?!. It's **** easy to make isk these days, rly. I would share my info but that would mean peeps swarming my lovely isk making machines and being poorer again when I'm feeling lazy. You players today don't know how easy you have it with your T2, battle cruisers, destroyers. When I were a noob all we had was BS's, cruisers, frigs, industrials and shuttles. You have it so easy these days today it's freaking incredible, why the hell do you want a capital anyhoo's?, and what will you do when it gets 'sploded?. You crazy kids
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:43:00 - [49] Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 11/12/2007 21:43:58 Originally by: Esharan belts before they came out.. but did it really take u 3 years to make ur billions? doubt it.. im not flaming, im just saying it really seems as if a disparity between the upper and lower classes has formed.... 1) Not every vet is rich. Many vets don't have billions, but wasted it all in pvp and are poor compared to some younger empire dwellers. 2) tech-2 equipment is really cheap since invention and that's the usual stuff that most players use, once they have the skillpoints. 3) one of my corp mates is doing exploration stuff and made over 2 bil with it not long ago in a single week. So the means to make isk seem to be still good, if you are up for some virtual work
Estephania	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:51:00 - [50] Edited by: Estephania on 11/12/2007 21:56:30 CCP gives you a nice way of keeping up with T2 prices (which are not cheap, just not that outrageously high as before). Create another account and dedicate it solely for ISK making. Then you'll be able to afford T2 ships (like HACs and Command Ships) when you have the skills. Without it, I can't see you surviving past the 7 months mark. PvPing in T2 stuff is an expensive hobby and you need some serious ISK making in order to do it without being forced to grind your *** off when you lose a HAC or a Command Ship. My main has around 2.5 bill ISK and I still don't think I can afford PvPing in HACs and Recons, let alone Command Ships, because this was accumulated over a long period of time. Tbh, I estimate that the steady income of above 600-800 mill per month is barely ok for regular PvPing with T2 cruisers and above.
Jenina Hawke Minmatar Core Domination Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:57:00 - [51] At some point in your replies you state that you live in 0.0 and do level 3 missions there. That's going to pay about as well as level 4 missions in Empire with less time spent. I started out helping out in level 4 missions in a kestrel. Now others help me and earn part of my bounties - but we have fun together and I finish my missions faster => I finish more missions => I get more storylines => I get access to better agents... I don't think it is that hard to earn ISK in Eve. I manage to pay for 3 accounts in GTC, keep 3 characters in battleships and t2 gear, +4 implants and skillbooks - and still have the ISK to be an investor in my corp. Missions may not drop faction loot, but exploration sites do. So do faction rats - and officers of course drop officer loot. And sure, you can be part of that even with a relatively young character, if you are in a corp that shares and cares. Ratting as a pair of battlecruisers is possible in most 0.0 systems. Jen *** No signature is good enough *** DGAF Newbie Guide
Valan The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:13:00 - [52] Its as easy now to make isk as its ever been. 4 years ago there were no missions and the biggest rats were cruisers. But apart from that why do you expect high end game play when you've just started? If you cut to the end game was is there left for you to do? /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
FreeMarket Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:13:00 - [53] Prices are based on supply and demand, go get your food stamps somewhere else. Save EVE TV, Save the World! *www.Save-EveTV.com*
Occara	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:14:00 - [54] TROLL SCORE 0/10 In the first post the troll is a new player. A few posts later the troll is suddenly a years old player. don't feed the troll.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:15:00 - [55] Originally by: Esharan Edited by: Esharan on 11/12/2007 20:21:37 I dont know, Im a new player... and it seems the cost of some things are out this wordly high. I mean, stuff that costs in the billions? How is that fair to new charectors? Does it seem like something needs to be done so newer players can get acess to High quality stuff, for not outrages prices... I know many of you will say we all started new at one point, but as far as i know, alot of the ways to make massive amounts of isk no longer exist, or are not possible anymore since patches and updates. For instance, Missions no longer drop modules worth 50 million, like Guristas Extrav used to with Prototype 425mms... Anyone get what im saying? it seems alot harder for new players to make isk these days (yes even in 0.0), and prices for ships are obscenely high. thoughts? plz dont flame. this is just what i see. not a whine or a flame from me eiether just some observations. no, nobody gets what you are saying. If anything things have gotten incredibly cheap, CAP recharger II's use to go for 25 mil and now they are like 2 mil. If something costs 1 billion, there is 100% chance you can't use it anyway because your a new player. Is it just me or since we hit 40k we got alot of people playing who aren't happy for some reason and think everything is either, too tough, too expensive, too dangerous, takes too long. I mean FFS, how are other MMO's i haven't played any but this one, and if they are as easy as these folks want this one to be, WHAT IS THE POINT IN PLAYING!?!?!?!? tic tac toe is easy, fair, and balanced, go play that
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:16:00 - [56] Some things are absurd, but if nothing else it prevents newbies from getting uberexpensive stuff way before they understand enough of the game to make use of it, or hell, even survive in it. When ebay newbies get a hold of a lot of cash and a 50M SP character, things like the legendary "honor tank" incident happen. If nothing else, the prices prevent newbies from doing monumentally stupid things. In this game it's not such a bad thing, because losses matter. See: 'A fool and his money are soon parted' and other various adages. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Karma Gallente Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:18:00 - [57] Originally by: Terail Zoqial ... all we had was BS's, cruisers, frigs, industrials and shuttles. 'veteran' and 'newbie' are such relative terms ;-)
Estephania	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:19:00 - [58] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Estephania Edited by: Estephania on 11/12/2007 21:56:30 CCP gives you a nice way of keeping up with T2 prices (which are not cheap, just not that outrageously high as before). Create another account and dedicate it solely for ISK making. Then you'll be able to afford T2 ships (like HACs and Command Ships) when you have the skills. Without it, I can't see you surviving past the 7 months mark. PvPing in T2 stuff is an expensive hobby and you need some serious ISK making in order to do it without being forced to grind your *** off when you lose a HAC or a Command Ship. My main has around 2.5 bill ISK and I still don't think I can afford PvPing in HACs and Recons, let alone Command Ships, because this was accumulated over a long period of time. Tbh, I estimate that the steady income of above 600-800 mill per month is barely ok for regular PvPing with T2 cruisers and above. I have 3 accounts, and you have WAY more money than me or any of the people I fight alongside. Seriously, I have just over 600M. We fly T2 ships. I suggest you quit whining - seriously, your anti-alt crusade is getting really old - and get in a ship. If you can run your guns half as well as you run your cry-hole, you'll do pretty well. Why do you think it's a crusade. Yes, I hate metagaming (both with alts and GTCs) but in this case it was an advice for a new player, so that he will avoid ISK problems I had. Don't know how you fight alongside ppl in 0.0 and they have way less ISK than me. I fight alongside ppl who make my wallet look like a pocket change, that's why I don't consider myself rich by any means, more like average or slightly below. And no one is whining... 600-800 mill per month is something that I hope to achieve in the near future .
d'hofren Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:21:00 - [59] Edited by: d''hofren on 11/12/2007 22:21:45 Originally by: Valan Its as easy now to make isk as its ever been. 4 years ago there were no missions and the biggest rats were cruisers. But apart from that why do you expect high end game play when you've just started? If you cut to the end game was is there left for you to do? Remember the ship progression then went.... Frig..... cruiser .... Battleship.. There were no Destroyers and BC's to make thing easier. Every bit of hauling was done in indies as well, no mates with frieghters, no corp mates with carriers to leap the stuff around for you... If anything the game has suffered from the ease of isk making now. Battleships used to be a bit special. Now days anyone with a miner II or three and a tier II cruiser can be in one within a few months.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:23:00 - [60] I wouldnt say its unfair, but it definitey means that fighting isnt as interesting as it could have been if theres no penalty for leeroying it. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..

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