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Berendas
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Posted - 2007.12.12 02:46:00 -
[1]
Hey, I've been seeing a lot of threads about suicide ganking and its effects, and I had an idea on how to lessen the risk to industrial players so I thought I'd throw my idea into the forum fray.
Would an ECCM module that prevents cargo scanning help? Also, maybe that instead of preventing cargo scanning entirely, it adds points to cargo scannability much like sensor strength, and the scanning ship must have greater scargo scanning strength?
Comments? Flame away
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hellsknights
RennTech SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.12 02:48:00 -
[2]
Could be an interesting idea, but they can't make it impossible but a bit more of a challenge would be cool.
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Berendas
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Posted - 2007.12.12 03:14:00 -
[3]
Yeah my aim is just to make it harder, not impossible, several corps base their income off this and it would be a big kick in the balls to them to stop suicide ganking altogether. My idea is just trying to make it a little easier for the industrialists who need to make those annoying business trips
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Sten Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.12 03:35:00 -
[4]
maybe some kind of "lead lined cargo hull" but fitted it makes you lose like 25% capacity, so it wouldn't be that desirable
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.12.12 10:43:00 -
[5]
I was going to write "Yet another unwanted guide on avoiding the gank", recognising that the whiners actually want "Notice: You cannot activate weapons against other players in highsec" there is little point in talking to them.
But I tell you this.
Removing Insurance will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker needs to make more isk to cover his operations in Eve.
Removing scanning will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker will have to gank everything that move to make isk. And he'll be using recyclable alts and trial accounts, so you can't do anything about him. Sure cry exploit all you like, CCP aren't going to spend the time required to fix your new problem with proper investigations.
I feel hauler pain every time I see an alt perform the gank, because I know it sucks for the ganked. But every time CCP buff the whiners more, more alts appear to gank. Seeing Main characters doing ganks is just getting rarer.
So, help yourself, because every time CCP help you and make it harder to gank, gankers adapt, and then in turn it gets harder for the hauler. Not easier.
--
Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
angelena
Caldari AND THEN NO YOU
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Posted - 2007.12.12 11:20:00 -
[6]
Most mods have a counter mod, damps/sensor booster , scram/stab , ecm/eccm so i can see how maybe there should be a mod for the ship and cargo scanner counter measure. As they dont serve much purpose from the game apart from gaining information from the target so a mod to make it harder if nothing else might be a good idea.
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Sarkkon
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Posted - 2007.12.12 11:36:00 -
[7]
perhaps a fiting that can 'hack' their scans. Seting your cargo as something you predetermine if your hack suceeds in altering their scan. For those willing to sacrifice ships its a dirty trick to play on the gankers when those 5 t2 original blueprints and a can of t2 250mm rails turns out to actually be livestock and soil. Extreme confusion of this type might actually deter the gate campers... and can give good combat pilots kill rights on them as well.
Always like the idea of the ability to confuse the ship/cargo scanners. It would make eve a tad more interesting indeed.
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Traeon
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.12 12:53:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Traeon on 12/12/2007 12:53:35
Quote: Hey, I've been seeing a lot of threads about suicide ganking and its effects, and I had an idea on how to lessen the risk to industrial players so I thought I'd throw my idea into the forum fray.
There already exist ways to prevent getting suicide ganked, or "lessen the risk" as you call it. I'm pretty sure that when the appropriate safety measures are taken that suicide ganks never happen or succeed.
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angelena
Caldari AND THEN NO YOU
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Posted - 2007.12.12 12:55:00 -
[9]
There already exist ways to prevent getting suicide ganked, or "lessen the risk" as you call it. I'm pretty sure that when the appropriate safety measures are taken that suicide ganks never happen or succeed.
Its called dont undock
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FakkJoo
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Posted - 2007.12.12 13:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gaven Blands I was going to write "Yet another unwanted guide on avoiding the gank", recognising that the whiners actually want "Notice: You cannot activate weapons against other players in highsec" there is little point in talking to them.
But I tell you this.
Removing Insurance will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker needs to make more isk to cover his operations in Eve.
Removing scanning will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker will have to gank everything that move to make isk. And he'll be using recyclable alts and trial accounts, so you can't do anything about him. Sure cry exploit all you like, CCP aren't going to spend the time required to fix your new problem with proper investigations.
I feel hauler pain every time I see an alt perform the gank, because I know it sucks for the ganked. But every time CCP buff the whiners more, more alts appear to gank. Seeing Main characters doing ganks is just getting rarer.
So, help yourself, because every time CCP help you and make it harder to gank, gankers adapt, and then in turn it gets harder for the hauler. Not easier.
QFT Epic Win Haf Mai Babies etc etc.
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Arelius Sarum
Amarr Exodus.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 13:20:00 -
[11]
There is a very simple solution of preventing their scans. I simply load the cargo into freight containers.
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Polly Math
Alpha-Hirogen
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Posted - 2007.12.12 13:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Removing Insurance will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker needs to make more isk to cover his operations in Eve.
Removing scanning will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker will have to gank everything that move to make isk. And he'll be using recyclable alts and trial accounts, so you can't do anything about him. Sure cry exploit all you like, CCP aren't going to spend the time required to fix your new problem with proper investigations.
sry but thats pretty flawed logic. the more you gank the more you have to worry about sec hits, trial accounts cant train bs or bc. removing insurance payout for concorde kills would balance things out.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Polly Math
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Removing Insurance will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker needs to make more isk to cover his operations in Eve.
Removing scanning will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker will have to gank everything that move to make isk. And he'll be using recyclable alts and trial accounts, so you can't do anything about him. Sure cry exploit all you like, CCP aren't going to spend the time required to fix your new problem with proper investigations.
sry but thats pretty flawed logic. the more you gank the more you have to worry about sec hits, trial accounts cant train bs or bc. removing insurance payout for concorde kills would balance things out.
Sorry, but you don't need a BC to gategank. Keep going, eventually CCP will grant you your wishes, and then you'll see more alts ganking. Then you'll be back here crying for more safety because you can't be jacked to take care of yourself. --
Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Durzel
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Arelius Sarum There is a very simple solution of preventing their scans. I simply load the cargo into freight containers.
Doesn't the reverse logic dictate that doing this would make you more susceptible to attack? (i.e. "whatever he's gone out of his way to hide must be pretty valuable")
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Polly Math
Alpha-Hirogen
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Sorry, but you don't need a BC to gategank. Keep going, eventually CCP will grant you your wishes, and then you'll see more alts ganking. Then you'll be back here crying for more safety because you can't be jacked to take care of yourself.
lol assumptions ftl. i dont have problems moving stuff, i just find it stupid that you get insurance payout when you shouldnt.
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Considered
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:38:00 -
[16]
Ye, a skill like this would also help. Something like adding so many % to a chance to scan cargo per level.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 15:09:00 -
[17]
Easiest way to avoid "successful" cargo scanning is to take your gazillions of bookmarks with you in your hold
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Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.12 15:18:00 -
[18]
It's called not being AFK. 99% of suicide victims are AFK. -
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.12 15:22:00 -
[19]
Quote: Removing Insurance will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker needs to make more isk to cover his operations in Eve.
You don't understand math very well, do you?
Removing insurance makes all ganks less profitable. Most ganks would still be worth it of course, it raises the threshold for how much you have to carry around to be considered 'worth' ganking. Therefore, fewer legitimate gank targets, and thus fewer ganks.
Suggesting that if people no longer get insurance when they suicide gank is going to lead to indiscriminate ganking is silly: the pirate would be bankrupt very quickly.
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Ammon Skycloud
Caldari Matari Research Foundation Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.12.12 16:11:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ammon Skycloud on 12/12/2007 16:14:36
Originally by: Gaven Blands ... But I tell you this.
Removing Insurance will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker needs to make more isk to cover his operations in Eve.
Nonsense, It won't increase ganking, what it would do is make gankings more selective, and will balance out the risk vs reward, Gankers will be forced to do their homework, and ganks will only be done when the potential reward is worth the balanced risk, as it is right now there is virtually no risk when doing high sec ganks. I might not stop ganking, but that's not what anyone who has proposed this idea wants, eve is afterall all about risk vs reward, and right now the risk in high sec ganking is far too low.
Originally by: Gaven Blands ... Removing scanning will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker will have to gank everything that move to make isk. And he'll be using recyclable alts and trial accounts, so you can't do anything about him. Sure cry exploit all you like, CCP aren't going to spend the time required to fix your new problem with proper investigations...
Combined with no insurance, this is also a false statement, if you are not going to get an insurance payout, then ganking anything that moves is no longer a good idea, if anything this reinforces the point of insurance payouts to high sec gankers should be canceled, what this will do is change high sec ganks from free for all ganks to properly planned carefully researched operations. making the whole issue of high sec ganking a legitimate tactic.
I don't support the removing of scanning, but it needs to have it's mechanics changed, Pilots need to have ways to prevent scanning, or at least make it a little more difficult, scanning should be made an aggressive act, after all I'm not going to scan your cargo so that i can give you friendly tips on market activity with regards to the goods you're carrying now am I, my intentions are clear.
Originally by: Gaven Blands ... I feel hauler pain every time I see an alt perform the gank, because I know it sucks for the ganked. But every time CCP buff the whiners more, more alts appear to gank. Seeing Main characters doing ganks is just getting rarer.
Alt Ganking is a whole different matter, suffice to say that I believe that using alt's to perform illegal acts is no different than avoiding concord by running away after doing something you shouldn't, and we all know how that ends.
In short, right now high sec ganking is almost an I win button, there is very little risk, vs potentially huge rewards, that is what needs to be fixed, high sec ganking needs to be made legitimate by giving it a risk just like everything else in eve.
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Precurseur
Gallente LEAP Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.12 16:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Berendas Hey, I've been seeing a lot of threads about suicide ganking and its effects, and I had an idea on how to lessen the risk to industrial players so I thought I'd throw my idea into the forum fray.
Would an ECCM module that prevents cargo scanning help? Also, maybe that instead of preventing cargo scanning entirely, it adds points to cargo scannability much like sensor strength, and the scanning ship must have greater scargo scanning strength?
Comments? Flame away
Why not load the cargo into secure containers, then anyone scanning will only see containers which may or may not contain anything valuable. Just a thought... ---
~Precurseur~ One that precedes and indicates, suggests, or announces someone or something to come..
I love me, who do you love?
[img]http://leap-corp.co.uk/images/banners/468x60.jpg[/img |
Durzel
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Posted - 2007.12.12 16:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ammon Skycloud I don't support the removing of scanning, but it needs to have it's mechanics changed, Pilots need to have ways to prevent scanning, or at least make it a little more difficult, scanning should be made an aggressive act, after all I'm not going to scan your cargo so that i can give you friendly tips on market activity with regards to the goods you're carrying now am I, my intentions are clear.
Interesting point there.
As a total newbie (3 weeks playtime) I had always assumed that scanning another ships cargo would be flagged as a dangerous act, or at least give an aggression timer. Like you say there's not really a legitimate reason for doing it.
At the very least if you can't block the scan it would be nice to know that you're being scanned.
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Ammon Skycloud
Caldari Matari Research Foundation Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.12.12 16:18:00 -
[23]
unless I'm mistaken, scans see "through" containers.
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Little Tigerlilly
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Posted - 2007.12.12 19:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Little Tigerlilly on 12/12/2007 19:49:43
Originally by: Berendas Hey, I've been seeing a lot of threads about suicide ganking and its effects, and I had an idea on how to lessen the risk to industrial players so I thought I'd throw my idea into the forum fray.
Would an ECCM module that prevents cargo scanning help? Also, maybe that instead of preventing cargo scanning entirely, it adds points to cargo scannability much like sensor strength, and the scanning ship must have greater scargo scanning strength?
Comments? Flame away
I'd like to see a suicide bomb as cargo. If your ship is destroyed it goes off 10 seconds later and does 20k thermal damage or something like that to everything up to 15k away. Would effectively vaporize your cargo and possibly kill the pirate pod! You could make it take 2000 cargo space or something like that.
Hmm this would also pod the owner of the ship as well....hmm this would be fun!
BIG ******* to a pirate who thinks he's scored a big payload! Maybe it should be a module so that it doesn't show up on a cargo scan?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.12 20:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gaven Blands But I tell you this. Removing Insurance will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker needs to make more isk to cover his operations in Eve.
It will make them more selective and have to take on targets that they think less of the good booty will be destroyed, or they risk financial ruin. Therefore, reducing ganks since they have a narrower margin of risk v reward.
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Removing scanning will not stop ganks. It will increase ganks. Because suddenly a ganker will have to gank everything that move to make isk.
And will quickly become -5 and also face financial ruin if he/she continues to adopt such random attacks.
Originally by: Gaven Blands
And he'll be using recyclable alts and trial accounts, so you can't do anything about him. Sure cry exploit all you like, CCP aren't going to spend the time required to fix your new problem with proper investigations.
Well they can try to attack more targets with alts/trials.. they won't have a whole lot of firepower though, so it makes little difference in that sense. The fact it affects the main, makes a bigger difference.
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Traeon
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.12 20:42:00 -
[26]
Quote: I'd like to see a suicide bomb as cargo. If your ship is destroyed it goes off 10 seconds later and does 20k thermal damage or something like that to everything up to 15k away. Would effectively vaporize your cargo and possibly kill the pirate pod! You could make it take 2000 cargo space or something like that.
Yes please, bring on the alts in their Ibises loaded with suicide bombs. Can't wait to start a chainreaction at a busy gate and scoop the loot afterwards.
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Arelius Sarum
Amarr Exodus.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Durzel
Originally by: Arelius Sarum There is a very simple solution of preventing their scans. I simply load the cargo into freight containers.
Doesn't the reverse logic dictate that doing this would make you more susceptible to attack? (i.e. "whatever he's gone out of his way to hide must be pretty valuable")
On the contrary, I named my cargo ship "BPO Transport" and set password to all freight containers I carry onboard. If some poor idiot choose to gank my ship, that's fine. They'll be losing their precious cruiser, BC or stealth bomber to a ship that's empty most of the time, and doesn't carry any valuable cargo even when it's full.
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Little Tigerlilly
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Traeon
Quote: I'd like to see a suicide bomb as cargo. If your ship is destroyed it goes off 10 seconds later and does 20k thermal damage or something like that to everything up to 15k away. Would effectively vaporize your cargo and possibly kill the pirate pod! You could make it take 2000 cargo space or something like that.
Yes please, bring on the alts in their Ibises loaded with suicide bombs. Can't wait to start a chainreaction at a busy gate and scoop the loot afterwards.
There would not be any loot left afterwards. Suicide bombs would vaporize everything, no wrecks, no loot, no nothing. Not even pods. :)
Blame for the bomb going off would be credited to the person who layed the killing blow on the ship. So if player A attacks a cargo ship and the resulting blast kills his ship and the ship of another passing player, then Player A gets sec status hit for 2 kills.
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Khudo
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Posted - 2007.12.13 00:57:00 -
[29]
Never fly afk, and you won't need any module
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.13 01:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Berendas Hey, I've been seeing a lot of threads about suicide ganking and its effects, and I had an idea on how to lessen the risk to industrial players so I thought I'd throw my idea into the forum fray.
Would an ECCM module that prevents cargo scanning help? Also, maybe that instead of preventing cargo scanning entirely, it adds points to cargo scannability much like sensor strength, and the scanning ship must have greater scargo scanning strength?
Comments? Flame away
Since I've never *ever* been suicide ganked, I fail to see why haulers and their pilots need more protection. Yes, I haul billions of ISK worth of stuff, no, you can't have it.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
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