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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.03.13 10:45:00 -
[1]
Ok so apparently TomB has abandoned part of the storyline and Caldari will be keeping their electronic warfare advantage . . . I've also heard rumblings that the heavy missile boats will remain slow and lumbering. Which is fine, I suppose. What I'm wondering is the following:
1. has anyone heard whether or not Caldari "superior" tech will still leave the sig radius and scan resolutions to be the worst in the game? If Caldari are technologically superior they should be lower . . .
2. specialty ships such as the blackbird, which is DESIGNED to be small, nimble, for delicate tactical situations . . . will it still remain the highest sig radius and slowest / least agile ship in the game? It is kinda absurd . . . just b/c heavy misile boats of the Caldari are slow doesn't mean they can't design a ship for the purpose of being light and nimble . . .
Anyway those are my two questions, anyone heard anything?
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.13 11:00:00 -
[2]
i dont even want to go close to this tread - its smells like flames from 100 miles 
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Cirle
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Posted - 2004.03.13 11:19:00 -
[3]
Ah, but it is okay, because if I remember correctly the Caldari ship specialists demonstrated their ability to produce small, nimble frigates by producing ships which are, um, larger and slower than even the Amarrian scientist attempts.
Bit of an own goal there I think, but we can content ourselves because we have bigger computers and our shields will humble the mightiest of opponents.
Can we kidnap some of these clever scientists and make them teach our scientists the old Orkish (a minor tribe lost in darkest history) skill of 'Red wunz goes faster'?
(all of that aside, I am still looking forward to being able to fly my first Caldari interceptor :))
Cirle |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.13 11:36:00 -
[4]
Tomb is planning a few changes:
- Cruise missiles will have a volume of 5m3.
- Standard missiles skill will only give a 1% boost to heavy/cruise missile speed per level.
- Smartbombs will have a range of 100km, activation time of 0.5 seconds, and have a cap usage of 1 per cycle.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.13 11:45:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
Tomb is planning a few changes:
- Cruise missiles will have a volume of 5m3.
- Standard missiles skill will only give a 1% boost to heavy/cruise missile speed per level.
- Smartbombs will have a range of 100km, activation time of 0.5 seconds, and have a cap usage of 1 per cycle.
now whult that be a total screw ower
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.03.13 14:06:00 -
[6]
Quote:
now whult that be a total screw ower
Nah.
Raven + 8 smartbombs + shield hardeners + shield boosters + cap relays = I PWN YOU ALL WITH SMARTBOMBS AT THE SAME TIME!!!!
SMARTBOMBHADDOKKEN!! ULTIMA NUKE!!!111!!!
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.03.13 15:23:00 -
[7]
Quote:
* Standard missiles skill will only give a 1% boost to heavy/cruise missile speed per level.
You have to be kidding? They're slow as hell as it is without nerfing the speed
Make a difference
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Polux
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Posted - 2004.03.13 15:23:00 -
[8]
Now I had this idea 5 secs ago.
What about a signal radius dampner??
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.13 15:24:00 -
[9]
I was kidding 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.03.13 15:36:00 -
[10]
Hmm didn't I hear somewhere that all Caldari ship bonuses were being changed to 5% added range to shield transfer arrays?
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.03.13 16:27:00 -
[11]
Quote:
I was kidding
Phew, had me going there for a minute
Make a difference
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Kayosoni
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Posted - 2004.03.13 18:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kayosoni on 13/03/2004 18:05:24
No, in fact, there are planned changes to make the special skills on every caldari ship +50% shields per level, and +1 launcher slot per level. |
Outcastino
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Posted - 2004.03.13 18:10:00 -
[13]
I thought it was +50% missile damage/bs level? strange...
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I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory! |
Kayosoni
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Posted - 2004.03.13 18:13:00 -
[14]
The extra launcher slots kind of serve that purpose. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.13 18:55:00 -
[15]
About all that's changed so far for Caldari is:
Raven armor/structure increased from 3975 to 4250.
Missile volume cut reduced by 66%.
Missile splash damage removed.
Useful changes, Raven still sucks when it comes to speed/signature radius/mass/scanning resolution but at least it's now a bit beefier than the Tempest.
Caldari still need more offense, they need bonuses that reflect their strengths, missiles. Caldari bonuses should be missiles/shields and only in some instances, hybrid damage (Merlin/Moa should have hybrid damage bonus). Caracal obviously needs a missile bonus, but then again most cruiser bonuses are crap.
Cruise missiles need to be powerful long range weapons to reflect the fact Caldari have superior targetting range and prefer railguns. Caldari currently can not capitalize on their long targetting range cause missiles do not function as a practical long range weapon because they are too slow to close in on ships in any reasonable amount of time in PvP.
We need more missile skills too so that people can shut up about the fact missiles take less time to train for. Missiles need to compare to turrets in power if it is to be the Caldari's primary weapon, simple as that.
Missiles are still way way way way too expensive, they cost over 100 times more than turret ammo and are not even as damaging, it makes no sense. It's currently way too expensive to run a missile oriented battleship right now, especially a Raven which goes through missiles like crazy. Cruise/Torpedoes need a cost reduction badly especially.
Hopefully TomB will give some loving to the Caldari where they really need it, their offense; missiles. It's been a while now since the CSM chat that discussed Caldari issues and we've not seen much happen since then. :/
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Hern
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Posted - 2004.03.13 20:02:00 -
[16]
Jim, I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. I expect the reasoning behind missile pricing is down to the fact that they are low skill weapons (well when compared to what is need for guns anyway). I expect it has been treated in the same way energy weapons are, no ammo but u need alot more cap to use em, or in in the case of missiles, not much in the way of skill points needed to use but cost more finacially.
Now I'd like to see more missile skills and better prices, but if this is the reasoning behind the current situation it may be awkward to impliment.
More skills to give you what you have now but lower cost
or
More skills adding extra but pricing remains the same.
I think I would prefer the latter.
BTW has splash been removed from cruise, I got hit by splash from a pardise cruise last night whilst undocking, or is that just a bug.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.13 20:31:00 -
[17]
Quote:
BTW has splash been removed from cruise, I got hit by splash from a pardise cruise last night whilst undocking, or is that just a bug.
I asked TomB about this a lil while ago and he said the message is a bug, the splash damage has been removed on all missiles except torpedoes, possibly rockets, not 100% about rockets.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Dreez
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Posted - 2004.03.14 15:41:00 -
[18]
Dont forget that Ravens are completely useless in larger
combats that takes place 50+Km from target due to the speed
of the missiles/time it takes to reach target.
I you engage in combat and you see 1-3 Ravens starting to
spitt missiles your way , all you still need to do is
to warp out and back in and all you have is a lots of
expencive fireworks.
I know that making missiles faster to cover long distances
faster is a very difficult change, when you have to concider
the ballance in all ships.
Having a scrambler onsight that can warpjam your target
certainly changes things, but the seconds that scrambler goes
down from concentrated fire - the Raven is useless once again.
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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Capt Silk
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Posted - 2004.03.14 16:42:00 -
[19]
I have to say, I fly a BlackBird right now, and it need some loving. It's the cheapest cruiser, and the smallest. Why is it so friggin slow?? The thing turns like an ocean liner on valium. I need to fill both low slots with overdrives, and run an afterburner, just to fight any rats over 12.5k. Ridiculous. And the there is no way to get 3 medium turrets equipped on it, unless you want to use dual 150's. So you have to use two launchers, which suck. I'm thinking of learning a different race's ship, because the "high tech, agile" Caldari ships... arenĘt. 
-Capt Silk
Your 250mm 'Scout' Accelerator Cannon perfectly strikes Serpentis Soldier, wrecking for 319.4 damage. |
Ithilgore
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Posted - 2004.03.14 16:55:00 -
[20]
Quote:
I have to say, I fly a BlackBird right now, and it need some loving. It's the cheapest cruiser, and the smallest. Why is it so friggin slow?? The thing turns like an ocean liner on valium. I need to fill both low slots with overdrives, and run an afterburner, just to fight any rats over 12.5k. Ridiculous. And the there is no way to get 3 medium turrets equipped on it, unless you want to use dual 150's. So you have to use two launchers, which suck. I'm thinking of learning a different race's ship, because the "high tech, agile" Caldari ships... arenĘt.
-Capt Silk
Yes, thats the problem.
Caldari ships are supposed to be technologicaly(spelling?) advanced, just look at the Scorp's discription.
The Scorp *should* be one of the most high tech ships ingame, it should have a *reasonable* locking time, since it's so high tech.
The only good thing about the scorp and bb is that they have many medslots imo.
All i see is tempests and megathrons around, barely any scorps or ravens.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.14 17:54:00 -
[21]
Yes Dreez, I'm afraid this is something CCP simply doesn't understand, people are simply warping away from missiles in long range combat.
What good is the 90km targetting range of my Raven when I can not effectively fight at that range? Cruise Missiles take close to one minute to reach targets that far out, how is that acceptable?
When people see Ravens open up on them with missiles at long range, they simply warp out and back in, everyone does it. It is ridiculous. It makes fleet combat with Ravens useless. How are Caldari the "long range" race, when they have the best long range targetting but their weapons are a TOTAL JOKE at long range? On the flip side, the Minmatar have the worst targetting range but the BEST long range weapons, the 1400mm Howitizer, doesn't make sense.
Cruise missiles need to be the long range missiles, and they need to be a lot faster than they currently are, make them useless against fast objects, I don't care, just let Caldari capitalize on their ONLY strength in terms of ship statistics, long range targetting. If not drop their targetting range and give me some agility/speed/scanning resolution/smaller sig radius.
The one single thing Caldari are good at is completely nullified at the moment.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.03.14 18:25:00 -
[22]
Completely agree Jim. If missles are only going to be effective short range (with warp scramblers) or mid range (if you are lucky), then Caldari ships should at least be given the ability to close range and or lock target quickly.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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VonKaplanek III
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Posted - 2004.03.14 18:32:00 -
[23]
I agree with Mr Raynor....
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.03.14 20:31:00 -
[24]
Quote:
I asked TomB about this a lil while ago and he said the message is a bug, the splash damage has been removed on all missiles except torpedoes, possibly rockets, not 100% about rockets.
Splash damage still happpens:
[ 2004.03.07 13:18:09 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Paradise Cruise Missile I hits Jinko's frozen corpse, doing 330.0 splash damage.
Anyway, back to the Caldari thing, I expect we will see all or some of the following changes coming our way:
- Missile mods, just like we have turret mods now
- Caldari ships will get more missile related bonuses
- Missile speed will double
This should even out the field a bit and might make a missile boat viable even at longer range.
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Krendig
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Posted - 2004.03.14 20:41:00 -
[25]
Splash damage removed, eh?
[ 2004.03.14 01:55:05 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Devastator Cruise Missile I hits Missile [FNORD], doing 315.0 splash damage.
Missiles are still screwed.
[FNORD], btw, is my corp tag. So, my cruise missiles are taking each other out.
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The End
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Posted - 2004.03.14 21:11:00 -
[26]
Edited by: The End on 14/03/2004 21:24:45
Edited by: The End on 14/03/2004 21:14:57
The Raven is the powerhouse of the Caldari Navy. With its myriad launcher slots and powerful shields, few ships can rival it in strength or majesty.
Special Ability: 5% bonus to Cruise Missle and Damage 5%increase in firing speed for Missile Launchers per level.
that should be the raven description :)
The first Scorpion-class battleship was launched only a couple of years ago, and those that have been built are considered to be prototypes. Little is known of its capabilities, but what has been garnered suggests that the Scorpion is crammed to the brink with sophisticated hi-tech equipment that few can match.
Special Ability: 5% bonus to Scan Resolution and 5% increase in max shield hitpoints per level.
also the scorp could use a bit of speed :) maybe 2% per level :)
anyway just my 2 cents
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Jin'Bing Ju
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Posted - 2004.03.14 22:30:00 -
[27]
So let me get this straigth. Galante should be good at drones, Amarr should be good at armor and lasers, and Caldari should be good EVERYTHING else including shields, missles, ship speed, targeting speed, targeting range, and EW and everything else.
And who knows what the Minmatar are good at.
Oh come on, quit whining. There is no such things as PERFECT balancing, in game or in life. Just deal with the it, instead of crying to the developers when someone uses a counter to your favorite weapon.
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The End
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Posted - 2004.03.14 23:24:00 -
[28]
Edited by: The End on 14/03/2004 23:35:24
Edited by: The End on 14/03/2004 23:31:10
i own a scorpion raven and a tempest....
the Tempest is just plain and simple powerful
Its just that people want the ships to go with its races strengths :)
its that soo wrong?
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Jin'Bing Ju
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Posted - 2004.03.15 00:31:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Edited by: The End on 14/03/2004 23:35:24
Edited by: The End on 14/03/2004 23:31:10
i own a scorpion raven and a tempest....
the Tempest is just plain and simple powerful
Its just that people want the ships to go with its races strengths :)
its that soo wrong?
Ohhhhhh, is that all they want. Ok, I guess I was mistaken because it just sounded to me like whining because they've discovered that their favor ship isn't the "best" and that its tatics aren't 100% effective in 100% of their battles.
But I can see the point of view. Missles are expensive and the caldari ships are practically restricted to them alone so it very important to make missle attacks effective if an entire bs class have been devotated to them.
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.03.15 00:44:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Baun on 15/03/2004 00:56:20
Quote:
So let me get this straigth. Galante should be good at drones, Amarr should be good at armor and lasers, and Caldari should be good EVERYTHING else including shields, missles, ship speed, targeting speed, targeting range, and EW and everything else.
And who knows what the Minmatar are good at.
Oh come on, quit whining. There is no such things as PERFECT balancing, in game or in life. Just deal with the it, instead of crying to the developers when someone uses a counter to your favorite weapon.
No one is suggesting that. Missles are clearly an inferior weapon at the moment. There is no disputing that despite their lack of cap usage and the fact that they are supposed to hit more often (even though they really do not), that Missles simply are not effective outside of small/short range engagements. We want either the missles themselves to be fixed and the caldari given the proper bonuses for them or if missles arent going to be changed we need to modify caldari ships such that they can more effectively use the crappy missles (which also includes getting the proper bonuses).
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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