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VoYvod Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:31:00 - [1] abaddon is a great ship , i have no real complaints for the ship itself apart from the capacitor size. I was looking at the hyperion and how it has 7200 base capacitor. A hyperion pilot with energy managment level 5 gets 9000 capacitor. An apocalypse that receives a 5% to capacitor size with energy management level 5 gets 9000 capacitor. An abaddon with energy management level 5 gets 7968.75 capacitor. So in a sense the hyperion has 3 bonuses. Being the apoc is a tier 2 and hyperion is tier 3 its sorta not comparible , but the abaddon not getting atleast the same amount of capacitor as the hyperion if not more is ridiculous.
Ishanda Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:34:00 - [2] Abaddon has a 1250s recharge time, Hyperion has 1500s. Take into account the Hyperion was designed as a blasterboat intended to fit a MWD, and you get your answer. ---
Fuazzole	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:34:00 - [3] Thiers so many of these threads that look at only cap and not regen Maelstrom + Hyperion + Rokh all have identicle base regen Abaddon has the best, though most usage too Hyperion has large cap slow regen to help counter the MWD problem
Mrski Okupator Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:39:00 - [4] Yes, because MWD doesn't penalize the abaddon. The ship that has -80 cap per sec to guns alone. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven. What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez.
kessah Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:40:00 - [5] very intresting... I dont think the MWD argument is good enough really - its not the abaddon i look at but the Apoc... The Apoc should in all fairness have the largest capacitor end of.. I mean come on WTF else does it have?
Acinonyx Jubatus Minmatar International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:43:00 - [6] Originally by: kessah The Apoc should in all fairness have the largest capacitor end of.. I mean come on WTF else does it have? A hairy rear end.
Yasumi Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:47:00 - [7] but the apoc is tier 2 and the hyperion is tier 3 so it's all good
Hans Angry Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:47:00 - [8] Originally by: VoYvod abaddon is a great ship , i have no real complaints for the ship itself apart from the capacitor size. I was looking at the hyperion and how it has 7200 base capacitor. A hyperion pilot with energy managment level 5 gets 9000 capacitor. An apocalypse that receives a 5% to capacitor size with energy management level 5 gets 9000 capacitor. An abaddon with energy management level 5 gets 7968.75 capacitor. So in a sense the hyperion has 3 bonuses. Being the apoc is a tier 2 and hyperion is tier 3 its sorta not comparible , but the abaddon not getting atleast the same amount of capacitor as the hyperion if not more is ridiculous. abbadon has 8 low slots... and 8 high, quit yo b****in
Steini OFSI Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:48:00 - [9] Every amarr pilot needs to train Controlled Bursts to level 5, true story. ------- I love myself
VoYvod Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Ishanda Abaddon has a 1250s recharge time, Hyperion has 1500s. Take into account the Hyperion was designed as a blasterboat intended to fit a MWD, and you get your answer. so why does it not receive a MWD capacitor use bonus like the thorax. But instead they gave the hyerion a higher base capacitor. Instead of 3 bonuses. The abaddon with level 5 energy operation has 937.5 s recharge time. which gives you a 8.5 cap/second recharge Hyperion with level 5 energy operation 1125. which gives you 8 cap/second recharge.
Ishanda Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Mrski Okupator The ship that has -80 cap per sec to guns alone. -55, if you got Controlled Bursts 5. That's with 3 Heat Sinks, too. [Clarification: Megapulse IIs w/ AN Multifreq. If you insist on using Conflag, its -70] The Abaddon was designed to have cap issues (I don't remember where, possibly Fanfest '06? that a dev said this), but have both sick dps and tank. Pretty much succeeded there, I think. What's not to like? Ok yes Amarr in general are gimped, and due some oomph, but I don't think its due to possibly one of their best battleships having not enough cap. ---
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:54:00 - [12] Originally by: VoYvod Originally by: Ishanda Abaddon has a 1250s recharge time, Hyperion has 1500s. Take into account the Hyperion was designed as a blasterboat intended to fit a MWD, and you get your answer. so why does it not receive a MWD capacitor use bonus like the thorax. But instead they gave the hyerion a higher base capacitor. Instead of 3 bonuses. The abaddon with level 5 energy operation has 937.5 s recharge time. which gives you a 8.5 cap/second recharge Hyperion with level 5 energy operation 1125. which gives you 8 cap/second recharge. What's the situation when the Hype fits a MWD and the Abaddon fits an AB? No, really. For some reason, most every Amarr pilot I've seen puts ABs on their battleships... maybe its because of the fancy-smancy highly variable optimal range they have, not sure. -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
VoYvod Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:58:00 - [13] Edited by: VoYvod on 14/12/2007 00:02:39 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: VoYvod Originally by: Ishanda Abaddon has a 1250s recharge time, Hyperion has 1500s. Take into account the Hyperion was designed as a blasterboat intended to fit a MWD, and you get your answer. so why does it not receive a MWD capacitor use bonus like the thorax. But instead they gave the hyerion a higher base capacitor. Instead of 3 bonuses. The abaddon with level 5 energy operation has 937.5 s recharge time. which gives you a 8.5 cap/second recharge Hyperion with level 5 energy operation 1125. which gives you 8 cap/second recharge. What's the situation when the Hype fits a MWD and the Abaddon fits an AB? No, really. For some reason, most every Amarr pilot I've seen puts ABs on their battleships... maybe its because of the fancy-smancy highly variable optimal range they have, not sure. -Liang i fit a mwd , but thats my choice and for good reason. but what if you fit a AB on a hyperion is the question yo should be asking. and everybody is missing the point of it just having that capacitor size for the mwd reason when there's already a bonus in the game for mwd capacitor use on several ships. Hyperion is getting 3 bonuses
Endless Subversion	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:03:00 - [14] abbadon has 8 low slots... and 8 high, quit yo b****in I think he should have sole input on all balance changes
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:03:00 - [15] Originally by: VoYvod i fit a mwd , but thats my choice and for good reason. but what if you fit a AB on a hyperion is the question yo should be asking. If you fit an AB on the Hype, you won't ever get in range of anything and your DPS = 0. Now stop asking silly questions like why Gallente Blaster boats have to fit MWDs. Quote: and everybody is missing the point of it just having that capacitor size for the mwd reason when there's already a bonus in the game for mwd capacitor use on several ships. Sure, but those ships are entirely unaffected by fitting a MWD (as of Trinity). The Hype does take the hit... but that doesn't mean that it is any less necessary. -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Mrski Okupator Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:06:00 - [16] Abaddon has 7 low slots. If you really have to post at least check your facts. And it's -80 cap/sec wit 8 tachy IIs and 2 heat sinks. It's cap lasts one minute. And ther reason some Amarr put afterburners on their ships has nothing to do with range. You simply have to add speed for movin through bubbles and such and mwd just hurts the cap too much. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven. What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Mrski Okupator Abaddon has 7 low slots. If you really have to post at least check your facts. And it's -80 cap/sec wit 8 tachy IIs and 2 heat sinks. It's cap lasts one minute. And ther reason some Amarr put afterburners on their ships has nothing to do with range. You simply have to add speed for movin through bubbles and such and mwd just hurts the cap too much. ::sigh:: I'm well aware of Amarrian cap issues, and the effect that the MWD has on them. I was trying this thing called 'diplomacy'. Also, you don't have to be at 3km to deal your damage now do you. -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Joie Mains Vindicator A Team	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Acinonyx Jubatus Originally by: kessah The Apoc should in all fairness have the largest capacitor end of.. I mean come on WTF else does it have? A hairy rear end. that is so wrong
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:20:00 - [19] Hyperions have longer cap recharge times, and are designed as blasterboats, which generally burn off quite a bit of their cap on the approach. Besides, blasters do take a fair bit of cap. The Apocalypse in fact has more cap with L5 skills (9,375), as well as less cap recharge time. The other two have smaller caps, but a fair bit smaller cap recharge times to make up for it. ------------------- I nerfed my own sig To amuse you, here is my Retriever ever since its first Trinity deployment. RIP. * * * * ** * * * ** * * * * * *** *
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:33:00 - [20] Q: What do you call an Amarrian boat without a MWD in 0.0? A: Dead. Seriously, in this day and age, I can't believe people still use ABs for anything else than mission running. D-F-C recruitment closed
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mrski Okupator Abaddon has 7 low slots. If you really have to post at least check your facts. And it's -80 cap/sec wit 8 tachy IIs and 2 heat sinks. It's cap lasts one minute. And ther reason some Amarr put afterburners on their ships has nothing to do with range. You simply have to add speed for movin through bubbles and such and mwd just hurts the cap too much. ::sigh:: I'm well aware of Amarrian cap issues, and the effect that the MWD has on them. I was trying this thing called 'diplomacy'. Also, you don't have to be at 3km to deal your damage now do you. -Liang In the situations it seems reasonable than an abaddon might be able to fit an AB so can the hyperion and megatrhon, since both will be fitting long range guns as well.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Goumindong In the situations it seems reasonable than an abaddon might be able to fit an AB so can the hyperion and megatrhon, since both will be fitting long range guns as well. Don't twist the truth here: Pulse is quite a bit more 'long range' than blasters... -Liang. -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Mrski Okupator Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:53:00 - [23] Yup, Cap injectors and mwd heve become a standard. Marking, of course, the death of mid-range combat (amarr kinf of combat) and amarrian cap dominance. And tachy abaddon still manages to shut down after 2 mins with cap injector fitted. Passive tanked pulse abaddon with injector is the only cap stable fit. Until the charges run out. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven. What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez.
Mrski Okupator Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.14 01:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Mrski Okupator on 14/12/2007 01:11:49 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong In the situations it seems reasonable than an abaddon might be able to fit an AB so can the hyperion and megatrhon, since both will be fitting long range guns as well. Don't twist the truth here: Pulse is quite a bit more 'long range' than blasters... -Liang. Quite a bit is well outside scram range. If it's warp out or die wouldn't you warp out? And if the fight starts at under 24km... Besides, wasn't this thread about cap? The thing that the cap race, ironically, has least of. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven. What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez.
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.14 01:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Ishanda The Abaddon was designed to have cap issues (I don't remember where, possibly Fanfest '06? that a dev said this), but have both sick dps and tank. Pretty much succeeded there, I think. True to some extent. But lets please be realistic abaddon would have serious cap problems even with hyperions cap because the missing cap bonus. So it really wasn't necessary to gimp its cap even further. Also the mwd argument would work on any blaster ship. But the other blaster boats have a smaller cap than their amarr counterparts! And the recharge rate thing is meh. Just look at the apoc and tell me something about recharge rate. Difference in peak(!) recharge between abaddon and hype will be about 6cap/s and thats with abaddon not having mwd. Thats just meaningless in pvp given that abaddon pays more than double the cap for its weapons. Another point is that no matter how things were intended when they were introduced mwd is an essential module in today's pvp especially in 0.0.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 01:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Mrski Okupator And guite a bit is well outside scram range. If it's warp out or die wouldn't you warp out? Well, everyone tells Caldari to get a tackler... so... 'get a tackler'. No big deal..... RIGHT. Quote: And if the fight starts at under 24km... Then you start AB'ing away and deal your damage while the Hype closes on you. Then you see who breaks who's tank. Quote: And besides, wasn't this thread about cap? The thing that the cap race, ironically, has least of. =/ I won't deny this one. ;-) I actually was just asking the question what the situation was with the MWD on the Hype (because it is required on a blaster boat) and an AB on the Abaddon. It doesn't make it an intelligent design decision... but it very well could have been the design decision. (Yes, I'd be ok with giving Amarr ships a bigger cap / faster recharge). -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Pac SubCom A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.12.14 01:35:00 - [27] What you guys need is the trusty Large Energy Transfer Array II. 83km range, just one runs your Tachybaddon forever and ever. --------------- ∞ TQFE
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.14 03:19:00 - [28] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 14/12/2007 03:23:54 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 14/12/2007 03:19:53 Originally by: Ishanda Abaddon has a 1250s recharge time, Hyperion has 1500s. Take into account the Hyperion was designed as a blasterboat intended to fit a MWD, and you get your answer. Yes the answer is ccp is forcing ABs down the throats of amarrians (or mwd+cap booster combo) because of the way they design our ships. Too bad mwd is a MUST HAVE in pvp today because of how ccp has designed pvp. Yes the answer is amarr are getting jacked. Some ships big time some ships to a lesser extent. They are getting ripped off. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Ishanda Originally by: Mrski Okupator The ship that has -80 cap per sec to guns alone. -55, if you got Controlled Bursts 5. That's with 3 Heat Sinks, too. [Clarification: Megapulse IIs w/ AN Multifreq. If you insist on using Conflag, its -70] The Abaddon was designed to have cap issues (I don't remember where, possibly Fanfest '06? that a dev said this), but have both sick dps and tank. Pretty much succeeded there, I think. What's not to like? Ok yes Amarr in general are gimped, and due some oomph, but I don't think its due to possibly one of their best battleships having not enough cap. It uses over 85 cap a sec on mine and I have all skills maxed. This is with tachies btw. Megabeams also use over 80 cap a sec.
Kyguard Fire Mandrill	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:42:00 - [30] I never noticed that :o that's stiff tbh. The problem I see is both the apoc and the abbadon, abbadon should get a slight bigger capacitor, something like ~8400 with max skills while the apoc should have ~9500 at least. :z - Latest Video

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