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Abaddon is being ripped off

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UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2007.12.17 09:38:00 - [121] I've tryed the abaddon on the test server. It felt like a Big strong buff guy... A big guy Holding his breath swinging his arms... Could do a lot of damage but ended up passing out and having the crap kicked out of him. Then i tried it with the MWD. Now it was like a big buff guy holding breath swinging his arm and running at full speed. Passed out sooner and then had the stuffing kicked out of him. I need to rethink my set ups.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.17 09:38:00 - [122] Originally by: Goumindong A tempest or typhoon will give it a run for its money. But think of it this way 1 hyperion > 1 Abaddon 2 Abaddons > 2 Hyperions oooh now I have to agree with goumindong here. --- planetary interaction idea!
Dillius Archania Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.17 14:58:00 - [123] Originally by: UGLYUGLY It felt like a Big strong buff guy... A big guy Holding his breath swinging his arms... Could do a lot of damage but ended up passing out and having the crap kicked out of him. Then i tried it with the MWD. Now it was like a big buff guy holding breath swinging his arm and running at full speed. Passed out sooner and then had the stuffing kicked out of him. Great way of describing it
Revan Crow Minmatar GIT-R-DUN Southern Connection	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:12:00 - [124] Abbadon is neat with artillery fitted....but thats me
Kroma BaSyl Amarr Snickers Inc	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:01:00 - [125] Originally by: Marn Prestoc Originally by: Kroma BaSyl Edited by: Kroma BaSyl on 14/12/2007 20:16:41 Originally by: Mrski Okupator The Abaddon was designed to have cap issues (I don't remember where, possibly Fanfest '06? that a dev said this), but have both sick dps and tank. Pretty much succeeded there, I think. Except that the Amarr need cap to tank and put out the DPS. So cap issues effectively means tank and DPS issues. Who says you have to tank using armour repairers? Gallente racial tanking bonus of repair amount forces them to active tank or ignore the bonus. Amarrs racial tanking bonus of resistances allows them to get huge effective HP while as an added bonus adding to the effectiveness of repairing. Its not CCP's problem if people think the only way to tank is dual repping. An HP buffer is not a tank, and an Abaddon that fires it's lasers doesn't have the cap to run a single repper let alone a dual repper tank. Kroma BaSyl CEO - Snickers Inc Don't hate me because I am beautiful!
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:39:00 - [126] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Erm... whomever said Amarr don't use ammo: You're wrong. We do use ammo: they are called cap charges. Ever flown a blasterthron? -----
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:52:00 - [127] Originally by: Kroma BaSyl An HP buffer is not a tank, and an Abaddon that fires it's lasers doesn't have the cap to run a single repper let alone a dual repper tank. A hit point buffer is a tank.
Kroma BaSyl Amarr Snickers Inc	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:52:00 - [128] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kroma BaSyl An HP buffer is not a tank, and an Abaddon that fires it's lasers doesn't have the cap to run a single repper let alone a dual repper tank. A hit point buffer is a tank. No it is a hit point buffer. Tank implies some form of repair. Active tank with armor repper or shield booster and passive tank with inate shield regen. At least that is how I have seen it referred to in 99% of the post on this forum. Kroma BaSyl CEO - Snickers Inc Don't hate me because I am beautiful!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.06 00:30:00 - [129] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/01/2008 00:30:52 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kroma BaSyl An HP buffer is not a tank, and an Abaddon that fires it's lasers doesn't have the cap to run a single repper let alone a dual repper tank. A hit point buffer is a tank. Yeah its a 3rd type of tank though. Armor, shield and buffer. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Zana Kito	Posted - 2008.01.06 02:02:00 - [130] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/01/2008 00:30:52 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kroma BaSyl An HP buffer is not a tank, and an Abaddon that fires it's lasers doesn't have the cap to run a single repper let alone a dual repper tank. A hit point buffer is a tank. Yeah its a 3rd type of tank though. Armor, shield and buffer. 4 types. armor, shield, buffer, and nanos. All forms of tanking is to keep you in the fight longer, delaying the inevitable. As for the MWD issue, pretty much all ships in 0.0 needs a mwd. Dictor bubbles and gatebubbles pretty much demands it. Abbadon is a fine ship because it actually has 2 real bonuses. Imagine if the resist bonus was a 10% cap reduction to lasers.. may as well pack up and go home. The cap weakness is not so bad for it simply because of the resist bonus, it can field a strong buffer tank. The problem is with other ships, and especially sub BS class. Lasers don't perform there cos they aren't mid range but in the short range competing against very good ACs and blasters in that category. This and the inability to field buffer tanks well, prefering an active tank on these smaller ships.. thats when the high cap use hurts them a lot.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.06 09:48:00 - [131] Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/01/2008 00:30:52 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kroma BaSyl An HP buffer is not a tank, and an Abaddon that fires it's lasers doesn't have the cap to run a single repper let alone a dual repper tank. A hit point buffer is a tank. Yeah its a 3rd type of tank though. Armor, shield and buffer. 4 types. armor, shield, buffer, and nanos. All forms of tanking is to keep you in the fight longer, delaying the inevitable. As for the MWD issue, pretty much all ships in 0.0 needs a mwd. Dictor bubbles and gatebubbles pretty much demands it. Abbadon is a fine ship because it actually has 2 real bonuses. Imagine if the resist bonus was a 10% cap reduction to lasers.. may as well pack up and go home. The cap weakness is not so bad for it simply because of the resist bonus, it can field a strong buffer tank. The problem is with other ships, and especially sub BS class. Lasers don't perform there cos they aren't mid range but in the short range competing against very good ACs and blasters in that category. This and the inability to field buffer tanks well, prefering an active tank on these smaller ships.. thats when the high cap use hurts them a lot. Actually, 6 Types Armour, Shield, Buffer, Nano, Structure and Honour Tanks. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.06 10:18:00 - [132] Originally by: Kroma BaSyl Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kroma BaSyl An HP buffer is not a tank, and an Abaddon that fires it's lasers doesn't have the cap to run a single repper let alone a dual repper tank. A hit point buffer is a tank. No it is a hit point buffer. Tank implies some form of repair. Active tank with armor repper or shield booster and passive tank with inate shield regen. At least that is how I have seen it referred to in 99% of the post on this forum. You are seeing it wrong. The strongest non-capital tanks are passive plated tanks and passive extended setups. No other setups survive longer under significant dps without heavy faction and deadspace investment. Similarly as it doesnt matter that you can repair 1 billion hit points every 2 seconds if you have 1 hit point, it doesnt matter if you repair 0 hit points per second when you have 140k hit points. Even in 1 v 1 engagements, passive armor tanks will usualy win out over repair based setups due to the way that damage and repair amount scale.
sdthujfg	Posted - 2008.01.06 21:29:00 - [133] Fix lasers.
Flurren	Posted - 2008.01.06 21:57:00 - [134] Edited by: Flurren on 06/01/2008 22:00:12 Edited by: Flurren on 06/01/2008 21:58:03 Ships stats should not be balanced around what that ship is "intended" by CCP to fit. They should be balanced on overall merits so a ship having 5% more speed than another that has 5% better cap with all other stats balanced is theoretically balanced (percentages are arbitrary and the actual balance may work out different in practice but i hope you get the gist of it). Im not saying a ship should not be designed a certain way (i.e with more grid to fit bigger weapons) but if it is designed this way then obviously it needs to give up things in other areas. This is all basically reasoning why a hyperion needing to fit blasters and an MWD is not a valid reason for it getting a better total of stats than any other tier 3 BS. The question is, what is one capacitor worth in terms of armor or shield hp and other such rules. In other games (im sure someone can come up with some cynical and derogatory examples, or perhaps just one) this is called item point budget and its a good concept. Im not sure if the CCP devs use a similar idea or not but i thought it was worth mentioning. Its the same with guns, a ship should not receive more grid or cap just to fit the intended guns for its role without giving up functionality in other areas e.g. hp or speed etc. The guns should be balanced beforehand so that if one uses more cap or fitting it gets other bonuses like damage or range. I think lasers currently use the most cap, have the second highest damage and have the second best range of the short range weapon systems if im not mistaken (this is including the rocket line of modules) so thats 4th, 2nd, 2nd. Blasters on the other hand would be 3rd, 1st, 4th so there is some theoretical balance even though some are of the opinion it doesnt work in practice. As ive heard it put to me, amarrs problem is not simply their huge cap use but the fact that even if they deal with this drawback they can not use the bonus on their given turret type (range) effectively because of their overall slow speed due to plates and base speed so are still beaten in dps by weapon systems they were meant to have more of a chance of combating. It seems to me that the race with the lowest speed will always suffer a disadvantage at some ship sizes no matter how their guns are balanced because they simply cannot keep to the best range for their weapon system. Possibly this problem will be fixed in whatever the speed nerf turns out to be. For example if webs were made analogue (i.e. more effective at lower ranges but longer overall range and possibly with different types that have different levels of effectiveness depending on the mass or sig radius of the target) then amarr ships would be able to keep their enemy at bay longer before being caught and therefore maintain a dps advantage for longer as well. Anyway those are my thoughts, heres hoping someone reads them because... well im bored.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.06 22:49:00 - [135] Originally by: Flurren The question is, what is one capacitor worth in terms of armor or shield hp and other such rules. In other games (im sure someone can come up with some cynical and derogatory examples, or perhaps just one) this is called item point budget and its a good concept. Im not sure if the CCP devs use a similar idea or not but i thought it was worth mentioning. Im pretty sure ccp doesnt use a point system and Im not even sure if they even try out different fittings and compare to other ships. If they would abominations like unnerfed myrm and eos wouldnt exist this far into a games lifetime. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice

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