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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.14 23:40:00 -
[31]
Speed while cloaked is fine, ability to move through system is not.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.12.14 23:48:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 14/12/2007 06:14:37
It's been suggested and suggested. Please make it come true. Everyone says SB's are pre-nerfed. This is the fix. It's not like a manticore can solo. Recon ships actually can, and they get their covops cloaks. What gives.
I missed the real content of this thread, BUT why can't a Manticore solo? You might not take out all ships but it is still only a very powerfull frigate... It can solo very well.
If this is about fitting the cov ops cloak you should play more and write less...
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I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.14 23:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 14/12/2007 06:14:37
It's been suggested and suggested. Please make it come true. Everyone says SB's are pre-nerfed. This is the fix. It's not like a manticore can solo. Recon ships actually can, and they get their covops cloaks. What gives.
I missed the real content of this thread, BUT why can't a Manticore solo? You might not take out all ships but it is still only a very powerfull frigate... It can solo very well.
If this is about fitting the cov ops cloak you should play more and write less...
If you don't bother to read content don't bother to post.
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Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:02:00 -
[34]
It all boils down to
Is it overpowered if the stealth bomber can arrive unseen.
Currently whenever the bomber travels.. it announces its arrival by showing up on scan and overview before it cloaks.
Meaning if we actually want surprise.. we need to be in position before the "target of oppertunity" arrives, otherwise they know we are there and maybe even know where we warped in to allowing intys to race to that spot and try to decloak in the 2km radius.
If we get covops cloaks which i do support. then the bomber can actually arrive and leave claoked and ya know.. stealthy.
Ppl are complaing that it would be overpowered when it wouldn't be too much. The same tactics to kill bombers still apply. When we shoot we have to remain on grid and visible for the impacts to do damage.
The only difference is the fraction of a second that the bomber is visible when warping in or out. How many ppl are quick enough to get a bomber locked and popped in the time it takes to de-warp and cloak considering range and lock time.. not many if the bomber pilot has even a little bit of skill.
Hence the best and still easily possible time to kill the bomber is when its shooting. Giving bombers the ability to warp cloaked wont deny this prime kill window.
Bombers are ambush ships that can at most ambush 1 or 2 ships at a time if they are lucky.. any more in the area and the bomber is dead.
We simply want the ability to perform our role w/o announcing our arrival to everyone on grid, or being regulated to camping a single location waiting for someone to come by and sit still long enough for us to get in range and fire.
Can we instapop frigs.. yes.
Can everyone else instapop us.. yes
A bomber is most vulnerable when its shooting..
When its warping in or out.. the ambush is sprung and everyone knows its there and waiting for it making it a rather crappy ambush ship.. unless its already been sitting at that location... bored outta their minds waiting for a ship that it can kill before it warps off or kills the bomber (while it waits for its missiles to impact)
------------
This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Which is worse.. the Carebear or the pirate that whines about them? |
Mudkest
Ekliptika Engineers
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:08:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Mudkest on 15/12/2007 00:11:20
Originally by: twit brent
bombers would make rediculously good tacklers because they can go anywhere in system sneak up on enemies then instalock and tackle with no delay. This throws out the balance of covert ops cloaks completely and is the reason they use improved claok II's.
That is why recons have targeting delay.
so if their scan resolution is nerfed by 50%(same as t1 cloak), can theye get a cov ops cloak then?
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GIEV custom ship paint jobs!
I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
It all boils down to
Is it overpowered if the stealth bomber can arrive unseen.
Currently whenever the bomber travels.. it announces its arrival by showing up on scan and overview before it cloaks.
Meaning if we actually want surprise.. we need to be in position before the "target of oppertunity" arrives, otherwise they know we are there and maybe even know where we warped in to allowing intys to race to that spot and try to decloak in the 2km radius.
If we get covops cloaks which i do support. then the bomber can actually arrive and leave claoked and ya know.. stealthy.
Ppl are complaing that it would be overpowered when it wouldn't be too much. The same tactics to kill bombers still apply. When we shoot we have to remain on grid and visible for the impacts to do damage.
The only difference is the fraction of a second that the bomber is visible when warping in or out. How many ppl are quick enough to get a bomber locked and popped in the time it takes to de-warp and cloak considering range and lock time.. not many if the bomber pilot has even a little bit of skill.
Hence the best and still easily possible time to kill the bomber is when its shooting. Giving bombers the ability to warp cloaked wont deny this prime kill window.
Bombers are ambush ships that can at most ambush 1 or 2 ships at a time if they are lucky.. any more in the area and the bomber is dead.
We simply want the ability to perform our role w/o announcing our arrival to everyone on grid, or being regulated to camping a single location waiting for someone to come by and sit still long enough for us to get in range and fire.
Can we instapop frigs.. yes.
Can everyone else instapop us.. yes
A bomber is most vulnerable when its shooting..
When its warping in or out.. the ambush is sprung and everyone knows its there and waiting for it making it a rather crappy ambush ship.. unless its already been sitting at that location... bored outta their minds waiting for a ship that it can kill before it warps off or kills the bomber (while it waits for its missiles to impact)
Amen. Now, with all he has said, I know some of you are still gonna come rushing in here spouting off things about the covops cloak's attributes that will unbalance. If that is the case, make a new cloak strictly meant for the stealth bomber. I just want the ability to move around the system in cloak, as there is no other way to ambush (other than to sit the bored to HELL). Make a prereq cloaking 5, I don't care.
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Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
I-Omniscient-I
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:27:00 -
[37]
Actually, you can come onto the scene unnoticed, if you prepare ahead of time. Which is why I suggested boosting the SB cloak speed bonus, allowing to to achieve this ability more effectively.
_________
"You will be a drone in the hive of an insane Queen, existing solely to provide the ship with needs, links in a chain too complicated for you to understand." - Story: Hands of a Killer |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Selene Le'Cotiere
Actually, you can come onto the scene unnoticed, if you prepare ahead of time. Which is why I suggested boosting the SB cloak speed bonus, allowing to to achieve this ability more effectively.
Prepare ahead of time huh. You follow every target you've got with a scout? Yeah, probably.
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Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
I-Omniscient-I
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:31:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Selene Le''Cotiere on 15/12/2007 00:31:43
No scout need really, if it's a regular hunting territory. Or if you are engaging known camps.
_________
"You will be a drone in the hive of an insane Queen, existing solely to provide the ship with needs, links in a chain too complicated for you to understand." - Story: Hands of a Killer |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:32:00 -
[40]
I'm one of those believing a cov ops cloak n a bomber will ruin balance... Though Im definately into a solution for letting bombers get on target with less risc
Have you considered some module or feature around bomb release - stuff like temporarily letting all targets lose lock on it, getting a very small signature and/or giving the bomber a seriously strong resist for 15-30 secs (a bit time to aproach and drop bomb)
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I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:13:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
I'm one of those believing a cov ops cloak n a bomber will ruin balance... Though Im definately into a solution for letting bombers get on target with less risc
Have you considered some module or feature around bomb release - stuff like temporarily letting all targets lose lock on it, getting a very small signature and/or giving the bomber a seriously strong resist for 15-30 secs (a bit time to aproach and drop bomb)
While your arguments may have merit, I wasn't really bothering with bombs in this thread. More of a fleet tool to me tbh.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Selene Le'Cotiere
Edited by: Selene Le''Cotiere on 15/12/2007 00:31:43
No scout need really, if it's a regular hunting territory. Or if you are engaging known camps.
Engaging known camps? You mean trying to run a camp through a gate, and you expect bombers to uncloak to fire at a running camp? You ****tin' me? You ever flown a bomber? Jw.
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Prometheus Exenthal
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
When we shoot we have to remain on grid and visible for the impacts to do damage.
If you can shoot, cloak, then decloak and relock before the missiles reach they're target, the missiles still do damage.
Same thing goes for warping.
lock, align, fire, warp, lock, align, fire, warp
So start making points around gates 
However, I do agree that they should be able to enter a system unnoticed (w/out black ops). Perhaps SB's should be able to maintain their cloak upon entering a system. They would still have to decloak to warp, but they would be a lot less vulnerable and a bit more useful when it comes to offensive warfare.
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corroded
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:39:00 -
[44]
Edited by: corroded on 15/12/2007 01:41:44
as previous poster implied.
at least give sb's the ability to cloak in mid-warp , so it can arrive cloaked, but still has to decloak to enter warp.
(would apply only to sb's not the cloak mod itself)
would make more sense, would boost sb's to the point of it actually being able to do what its supposed to.
it wouldnt detract much from using cov-ops for scouting either since the inability of the bomber to get away unseen would still be there.
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Prometheus Exenthal
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:55:00 -
[45]
No need to have to warp in cloaked.
Unless you are warping to a gate to leave, you shouldn't be warping in at 0.
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Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.12.15 02:09:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
No need to have to warp in cloaked.
Unless you are warping to a gate to leave, you shouldn't be warping in at 0.
Warp in and everyone on the grid sees you arrive... boom.. ambush chances over
------------
This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Which is worse.. the Carebear or the pirate that whines about them? |
Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
I-Omniscient-I
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Posted - 2007.12.15 02:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Engaging known camps? You mean trying to run a camp through a gate, and you expect bombers to uncloak to fire at a running camp? You ****tin' me? You ever flown a bomber? Jw.
I'm not sure we talking about the same thing here... I'm talking about engaging/harassing gate camps with out them seeing you come in. Have I gotten through gate camps, both ways without them seeing me go though except to activate the gate? Yes. Have I flown a Bomber? Yes, in fact I'm rather fond of my Manti the way it is now.
Personally a speed bonus increase while cloaked would be more appropriate than the ability to warp while cloaked. Build upon its ability to stalk its prey, not give it something that other stealth ships can do.
_________
"You will be a drone in the hive of an insane Queen, existing solely to provide the ship with needs, links in a chain too complicated for you to understand." - Story: Hands of a Killer |
corroded
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Posted - 2007.12.15 02:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
Warp in and everyone on the grid sees you arrive... boom.. ambush chances over
exactly.
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
No need to have to warp in cloaked.
Unless you are warping to a gate to leave, you shouldn't be warping in at 0.
what are you on about?
..
simply stated, as it is now the bombers cant do their jobs without sitting.. then waiting.. for something that is either a noobship or a nontanked frig , which doesnt have a clue what to do when ppl toss missiles at them, and somehow forget how to warp in the 10+ seconds it takes for the volley to hit.
/rant
solution:
Let bombers arrive to the victim stealthed, do their business and warp off decloaked.
If the attack fails, he cant run cloaked.
If the bomber succeeds he has still lost the element of surprise, but has actively hunted and actually managed to perform its role of being a sneaky, potentially lethal b*stard, instead of something that falls asleep at a roid belt somewhere, waiting for an afk hauler.
so, no need for a cov-ops cloak, just add a little role-blurb to sb's using imp.cloak 2's
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Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
I-Omniscient-I
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Posted - 2007.12.15 03:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: corroded
*clip*
Stealthbomber:
ambusher/surpriseattacker, must be able to remain unseen until the moment of attack.
Lock while cloaked (with extended lock time), cloak drops when missiles fired?
That could be pretty sweet, though probably pushing being a bit overboard.
_________
"You will be a drone in the hive of an insane Queen, existing solely to provide the ship with needs, links in a chain too complicated for you to understand." - Story: Hands of a Killer |
NCP S2
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Posted - 2007.12.15 04:19:00 -
[50]
I agree on both sides of the arguement.
I would love to be able to warp while cloaked, or arrive while cloaked in my Manticore. This way I'd be a lot more dangerous, and a Stealth Bomber would cause a lot more unrest if noticed in a system. It would make it a VERY powerful ship, most likely a bit too powerful. The only balance it would see would be the fact that anything that gets a target on it can take it out with a sneeze.
BUT...
Like I just said, it would be a bit too powerful. It would make it a solo ship, and there are many situations in which it would be ultra imbalanced.
Situation:
Arrive in system and warp to a gate while cloaked. Your targets use this as a shipping lane and you know it. Now they know you are in system due to local, but don't know where you are at, or what ship you are in. You are then able to open up on a hauler that comes through and quickly scoop the loot before warping off while cloaked as reinforcements arrive.
OR:
You warp in on someone in a belt, a nice noob frigate out ratting in low sec. But you arrived cloaked so he doesn't even have a clue about his pending doom! You uncloak, fire, pop! walk away with the victory!
BOTH of these situations can easily come about with some thought and planning. Warp into the first system and get into position and then cloak. As long as they don't have someone sitting on that gate, you're still safe. They might know you are in system in a SB, but they don't know where you are at. You have about the same chance of getting a lone hauler without a scout, or with a scout that keeps a system ahead, as with a hauler coming through with an armed escort. The second one, just position yourself at a gate ahead of the ratter, get cloaked, and wait for them to arrive.
How would it be imbalanced? Well you couldn't ever be detected prior to engagement, and you'd still be able to engage. Right now, all ships that can't be detected prior to engagement, can't really engage. THAT's where the imbalance is. To the arguement that recons can solo... well, compare the skill difference between the Recon ship and the Stealth Bomber... if you still have trouble seeing how they aren't even, well, I'm not really scared of Recons when I'm flying anything except a T1 Frig, in which case, I'm not fretting a loss there either.
If you don't think SB's can instalock... have you ever flown one? Even with the damp change, it's still a powerful tool.
Would I enjoy flying a Manticore more if I could warp while cloaked? Yes.
Would I think that the Stealth Bomber is now a bit too powerful? Yes.
Is the Stealth Bomber currently a very powerful tool and very dangerous, yet often overlooked? Yes.
Are there several ships that are overlooked due to their niche role not being needed in every situation? Yes.
Do more people need to look past their biased opinions and take in account broader aspects of game play? Yes.
Are two lines of my question and yes's test the same length? Yes.
Without spelling out every situation that a stealth bomber is good for, I doubt the majority of people crying for this change would understand what the stealth bomber is good for.
The biggest peeve I have is that when I first played, the Manticore could field 3 cruise missile launchers while the rest could only field 2. Then I come back after a bit of a break, and they can all field 3, and the Manticore goes from the king to significantly lower on the Stealth Bomber totem pole. The Missile Race lost their missile advantage, because non missile races needed thier stealth bomber to be even... personal gripe, and I know many disagree with me on this, but meh. Not part of this topic, but still.
All in all, SB's are very powerful and don't need any changes. Would it break the game and cause everyone to be flying a Stealth Bomber? Would there be significantly more SB pilots than there are now? Probabally not. Would the forums be flooded with cry's about the change? Yes.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.15 06:13:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 15/12/2007 06:12:56
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Hannobaal
The Stealth Bomber is a more powerful ship than any other in its size and price class in Eve. It doesn't need a boost.
Well that depends entirely on how you define "powerful". A well piloted inty will destroy a SB. A well piloted inty will most likely pop anything an SB can pop, and can also tackle and has much higher survivability. So, your logic is kinda faulty.
Can two interceptors together put out more DPS than a Cruise fitted Raven?
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Shippon Shima
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Posted - 2007.12.15 07:16:00 -
[52]
The issues with bombers:
Unable to warp cloaked - Completely removes the bomber as an offensive weapon. You cannot 'get the jump' on someone if you warp to him so he can see you in scanners. At best the 'bomber' is nothing more than an ambush craft..and a mediocre one at that (in terms of stealth).
Inability to re-cloak if BEING targetted: Okay.. not being able to cloak if LOCKED ..fine. But if you're being TARGETTED .. what the F? The instant you pop into the overview you get denied the chance to re-cloak. Likewise, the instant you warp in uncloaked you start to get targeted.
Low damage output - yes you heard it. A 'bomber' is supposed to take out BIG targets. Insta- popping frigs is ********.. thats the role of DESTROYERS.
2km range 'unstealth' bubble - you cannot fly with other bombers in any sort of formation as lag or other uncontrollable factor gets you in range of your friend bomber and voila! you're fekd.
Caldari bomber racial advantage removed- stupidest decision by CCP...ever.
Solutions:
- To warp cloaked: Allow stealth bomber to use the covops cloak BUT.. add the following rule (applies to both bomber and recon): Cannot warp cloaked if weapon bays are loaded. This makes the covops cloak users have to arm its weapons after they jump in or before they jump out cloaked. This delay balances out the alpha strike of the bomber in both offensive and getaway options (since you cannot cloak while warping).
-Cloaking & being targeted: Only refuse bomber to cloak itself if it is LOCKED. being targeted should not be a reason to deny the bomber to cloak. If you think about it, the sensors DETECTED you but have not yet triangulated your exact position.
- Damage output: A bomber is supposed to strike heavy targets with enough damage to make an impact. No, it should not insta-pop cruisers but it should be able to do severe damage to it in one volley. This can be achieved in different ways depending on race:
Caldari: Manticore is allowed to load TORPEDOES and receives torpedo damage bonus (+200%), a massive refire delay (+200% refire delay) and a big penalty to torpedo explosion stats (so that fast flying targets receive little damage but static or slow ones (aka 150ms or less) get full damage). This makes the Caldari bomber a very effective short range sledgehammer that has to pick targets carefully.
Gallente bombers: Gallente bombers should be allowed to load ONE large railgun and have 'suicide' drones that do comparable damage to the current 3-cruise missile setup. Their 'special' bonus is that their drones do not suffer from any factors that reduce damage (tracking,speed, etc).
Minmatar bomber: Minmatar should be allowed 3 large guns OR a mix of cruise missiles and guns. Their 'special' race bonus is that with 3 large projectiles is they can get the wrecking damage insanity and of course, they can change damage types easily. Drawback: low ammo load in cargo space for large gun ammo.
Amarr Bomber: Amarr would be allowed to load 3 BOMB launchers whereas other races are limited to 1 per ship. This alone makes it a fearsome attacker.
2km range stealth bubble- if ship is in fleet, it should not decloak him. easy.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.15 07:25:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shippon Shima
Inability to re-cloak if BEING targetted: Okay.. not being able to cloak if LOCKED ..fine. But if you're being TARGETTED .. what the F? The instant you pop into the overview you get denied the chance to re-cloak. Likewise, the instant you warp in uncloaked you start to get targeted.
That's not true. Only being locked keeps you from cloaking.
However, when you see someone's icon lighting up witha yellow square in the overview that's them having locked you, not them being in the process of targeting you. In Eve you never know when someone is targeting you, only when they already have you locked.
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Multras
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.15 07:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Multras
Edited by: Multras on 14/12/2007 21:34:01
NO, how many times are these threads going to pop up? Grow some skill noobs, the ship is fine. And I would really love to see an inty pop my manticore, it wont happen.
Fine, it won't. You'll just stay cloaked mr. elite.
Or ill insta pop his ass.
Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig. |
Bruce Deorum
Minmatar
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.15 09:39:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 15/12/2007 09:41:00
PPL are bored or cannot find friends that respect the SB concept enough to make proper ambushes. Cov-Ops cloaks WON'T change that.
Some of the "balances" of insta-decloak while being able to lock targets mpla-mpla totally miss the whole balance issue: SBs are CHEAP (relatively) T2 ships with HUGE dmg potential.
They can ambush pretty well, you just cannot enter a system through an enemy camped gate and safely go around un-noticed. You can pretty well and pretty safely navigate cloaked within an enemy bubble tho, even USE it for tackling!
- NOTHING will the offensive capabilities of a SB can...
- EVEN the Cov-ops frigs actually appear on scanner or overview for a sec or so...maybe you cannot possibly lock em fast enough, but SURELY someone can see them...not by accident...
- Wanting an un-catchable frig class that can swarm through enemy territory being able to ultra-fast-lock n fire 1/2 of the Alphas a Raven gets to harass the enemy is overpowered. Cause what you describe is definitely un-cachable, as anything that can lock you in time is insta-poped and everything else cannot lock you fast enough.
SBs are ultra effective as they are. You wan't faster hits after firing? Take your risks and move close buddy. Or get a tackler to do the dirty job and keep your safe distances. Should they wanted insta-dmg dealers, SBs would be speced for Arties or Tachyons (lol)!
I've camped with a buddy in a SB. In enemy territory, and yes, with patience you can brake through bubbled camps and such almost as consistently and effectively as every other cov op. Patience is what most complainers want, not cov-ops. 
And why should they fly SBs then? why not ceptors that cannot insta pop sth, or "original" cov-ops? 
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 18:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Multras
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Multras
Edited by: Multras on 14/12/2007 21:34:01
NO, how many times are these threads going to pop up? Grow some skill noobs, the ship is fine. And I would really love to see an inty pop my manticore, it wont happen.
Fine, it won't. You'll just stay cloaked mr. elite.
Or ill insta pop his ass.
LOL! Oh jesus, you're exactly why I log on. Oh god, that was good. Wooo. Ok, I've got a grip on myself. Now:
You are going to instapop a interceptor? CMON! Did you go on EFT again? Play the game dude, a ceptor going 6km/s is not going to be touched by your damn missiles buddy. Seriously, stop letting people download EFT. Remove it.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 18:20:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 15/12/2007 18:20:17
Double Post.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 18:21:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 15/12/2007 18:24:16
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 15/12/2007 09:41:00
PPL are bored or cannot find friends that respect the SB concept enough to make proper ambushes. Cov-Ops cloaks WON'T change that.
Some of the "balances" of insta-decloak while being able to lock targets mpla-mpla totally miss the whole balance issue: SBs are CHEAP (relatively) T2 ships with HUGE dmg potential.
They can ambush pretty well, you just cannot enter a system through an enemy camped gate and safely go around un-noticed. You can pretty well and pretty safely navigate cloaked within an enemy bubble tho, even USE it for tackling!
- NOTHING will the offensive capabilities of a SB can...
- EVEN the Cov-ops frigs actually appear on scanner or overview for a sec or so...maybe you cannot possibly lock em fast enough, but SURELY someone can see them...not by accident...
- Wanting an un-catchable frig class that can swarm through enemy territory being able to ultra-fast-lock n fire 1/2 of the Alphas a Raven gets to harass the enemy is overpowered. Cause what you describe is definitely un-cachable, as anything that can lock you in time is insta-poped and everything else cannot lock you fast enough.
SBs are ultra effective as they are. You wan't faster hits after firing? Take your risks and move close buddy. Or get a tackler to do the dirty job and keep your safe distances. Should they wanted insta-dmg dealers, SBs would be speced for Arties or Tachyons (lol)!
I've camped with a buddy in a SB. In enemy territory, and yes, with patience you can brake through bubbled camps and such almost as consistently and effectively as every other cov op. Patience is what most complainers want, not cov-ops.
And why should they fly SBs then? why not ceptors that cannot insta pop sth, or "original" cov-ops?
You do realize we want covops cloak to hunt, not to escape gate camps right? Also, as I stated before, the quickest locking thing in the game (interceptors) should not be afraid of SB's. Guys, the missiles will not do ****. Nevermind. THey will. Never lock SB's, I was lying.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 18:23:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Edited by: Hannobaal on 15/12/2007 06:12:56
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Hannobaal
The Stealth Bomber is a more powerful ship than any other in its size and price class in Eve. It doesn't need a boost.
Well that depends entirely on how you define "powerful". A well piloted inty will destroy a SB. A well piloted inty will most likely pop anything an SB can pop, and can also tackle and has much higher survivability. So, your logic is kinda faulty.
Can two interceptors together put out more DPS than a Cruise fitted Raven?
Can a Dreadnought put out enormous DPS. Yes. But it can't kill ****. You still didn't even recognize the fact that I stated an interceptor can do the job better.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 18:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
It all boils down to
Is it overpowered if the stealth bomber can arrive unseen.
Currently whenever the bomber travels.. it announces its arrival by showing up on scan and overview before it cloaks.
Meaning if we actually want surprise.. we need to be in position before the "target of oppertunity" arrives, otherwise they know we are there and maybe even know where we warped in to allowing intys to race to that spot and try to decloak in the 2km radius.
If we get covops cloaks which i do support. then the bomber can actually arrive and leave claoked and ya know.. stealthy.
Ppl are complaing that it would be overpowered when it wouldn't be too much. The same tactics to kill bombers still apply. When we shoot we have to remain on grid and visible for the impacts to do damage.
The only difference is the fraction of a second that the bomber is visible when warping in or out. How many ppl are quick enough to get a bomber locked and popped in the time it takes to de-warp and cloak considering range and lock time.. not many if the bomber pilot has even a little bit of skill.
Hence the best and still easily possible time to kill the bomber is when its shooting. Giving bombers the ability to warp cloaked wont deny this prime kill window.
Bombers are ambush ships that can at most ambush 1 or 2 ships at a time if they are lucky.. any more in the area and the bomber is dead.
We simply want the ability to perform our role w/o announcing our arrival to everyone on grid, or being regulated to camping a single location waiting for someone to come by and sit still long enough for us to get in range and fire.
Can we instapop frigs.. yes.
Can everyone else instapop us.. yes
A bomber is most vulnerable when its shooting..
When its warping in or out.. the ambush is sprung and everyone knows its there and waiting for it making it a rather crappy ambush ship.. unless its already been sitting at that location... bored outta their minds waiting for a ship that it can kill before it warps off or kills the bomber (while it waits for its missiles to impact)
This man speaks the truth (or lady, idk, probably man).
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