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CCP unnerf the Marauders, give the PVPrs their merry christmas wish.

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Galliana Foresta Gallente Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:59:00 - [31] Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Cornette Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin You should use ECCM or STFU. Go away troll. The smell of you stink the whole place down. The English of you dumb the whole place down. Best. Post. Ever. Dunno why this made me laugh so hard. ---------------
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.16 00:00:00 - [32] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Saithe And the noobs of eve win again! Thank you ccp for screwing pvp right in the ******** yet again! seriously, when will us pvpers get a good ship to pvp with, rather than get all of our current ships nerfed. Stop being ridiculous. There's tons of ships that are good in pvp and fairly bad at pve. And if you wnat your shiny T2 pvp battleship, it's called the Black Ops. T2 Typhoon (black ops) is not much of a pvp bs its a jump drive bs though. join IXC
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.12.16 10:29:00 - [33] Originally by: OneSock They are for salvaging surely ? why else a large cargo and tractor bonuses ? Twice as many cap charges as the opposition while having half the energy cost to fire the guns, Oh and, the salvager thing is just a cunning disguise... you put an offline salvager in the last slot for sound thermodynamic reasons (cough hint hint), and if you get bored you online it to pull in the wrecks of people who mistook you for a carebear... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Joe Sales	Posted - 2007.12.16 10:52:00 - [34] The idea of a jamming weakness for T2 bs is actually pretty good. It is a very serious weakness. In any mid-large gang warfare, marauders would be the target of choice for jamming ships. And any decent gang will have some jammers. Now given that weakness, the other overall stats of these ships are a bit lacking. There is really no need to have crappy stats when there's a jamming weakness. Those "other" stats which are currently crappy are: lock speed targeting range power grid ship speed Usually t2 ships get extra slot, which would be nice but not necessary if the above 3 stats are increased to "above average" level. Or have extra slot and slightly less boosted other stats. Remember, the jamming weakness in gang warfare is gonna make them primary for all EW support. These ships will not be overpowered with boosted stats.
Cornette Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.16 11:33:00 - [35] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Saithe And the noobs of eve win again! Thank you ccp for screwing pvp right in the ******** yet again! seriously, when will us pvpers get a good ship to pvp with, rather than get all of our current ships nerfed. Stop being ridiculous. There's tons of ships that are good in pvp and fairly bad at pve. And if you wnat your shiny T2 pvp battleship, it's called the Black Ops. I can't do much with a Black Ops bs except letting my recon buddies get into a system. That is if I can stand the boredom of being there all the time providing just that little bit of help. If I wish to pvp in it then I really have to choose my targets wisely or I die, and if I win I expect that to be mostly because of a surprise effect that works only once. I probably get a Sin anyway at some time, but we see if I will use it. As for Marauders, I want to use them in empire wars. Thats where I expect them to shine but that silly pre-nerf to sensorstrength stops that idea. As others already stated the first the ecm ships in a enemy gang will do is to jam me then I can watch myself slowly die if my friends can't bail me out. I don't believe these ships would be overpowered because they are no superhac's even with that unnerfed. With the right countermeasure I will still die as easy as I would in a ordinary tech 2 fitted bs. But I guess for people who don't ever pvp unless pvp finds them my wish is rocking the boat. A shame really, these ships could have been a nice goal worth training for after I had my kicks with (and lost them) faction battleships. //Cornette
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.16 11:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Buyerr they are so pre nerfed it freaking stinks.... i am just wishing for a hac bs seize:/ That is exactly what the Dev promised they [b]would not be. Essentially the development team has decided that the marauders should have some major weakness to limit them, as they should not be BS sized HAC "to rule them all". this. thread over. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Tyr Zewa Caldari MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.12.17 10:38:00 - [37] Originally by: OneSock They are for salvaging surely ? why else a large cargo and tractor bonuses ? The sad thing is, i am tempted to get one as salvage ship :P
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:53:00 - [38] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Cornette Originally by: Razin Marauders are for PVE. I say gimp'em some more. Sinse they break immersion anyway, why not disallow the Marauders to lock player ships and structures. Break immersion? I say this pre-nerf really breaks the immersion. In my opinion anything that flies in eve you should be able to do pvp with, or we could have done without them before CCP even introduced them. You still don't undertstand. Marauders are for PVE. This. _______________
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin Originally by: Cornette I don't want ... I want ... I expect ... for me Yes we know you're a big baby who wants her way. The tanks on these ships are strong enough to use an ECCM module and still be ok. Get over it already. Not enough mids for the Kronos to use eccm. Plenty for the Golem however... Kronos has 4 mid slots. Since 1 is less than 4, Kronos can use ECCM. YAY! I'm seriously looking forward to the day your eyeballs pop out from rolling them too much. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.17 22:20:00 - [40] Edited by: Calimor on 17/12/2007 22:20:05 Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin Originally by: Cornette I don't want ... I want ... I expect ... for me Yes we know you're a big baby who wants her way. The tanks on these ships are strong enough to use an ECCM module and still be ok. Get over it already. Not enough mids for the Kronos to use eccm. Plenty for the Golem however... Kronos has 4 mid slots. Since 1 is less than 4, Kronos can use ECCM. YAY! I'm seriously looking forward to the day your eyeballs pop out from rolling them too much. Every combat ship can use ECCM, it doesn't mean they can have a reallistic fitting while using ECCM, specially if other ships with better signature (even after the ECCM bonus) can do it better.

Commoner Caldari Emergent Chaos Bedlam Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.17 23:22:00 - [41] I do missions in lowsec. I would never, ever use one for missions in lowsec. Flying this ship in lowsec is like target painting yourself as prey. This ship is for 0.5 sec > missionrunners. I honestly think this ship is gimped in the wrong way. The worst pvp'er in EVE :
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:21:00 - [42] Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Razin Originally by: Cornette Originally by: Razin Marauders are for PVE. I say gimp'em some more. Sinse they break immersion anyway, why not disallow the Marauders to lock player ships and structures. Break immersion? I say this pre-nerf really breaks the immersion. In my opinion anything that flies in eve you should be able to do pvp with, or we could have done without them before CCP even introduced them. You still don't undertstand. Marauders are for PVE. This. From the Vargur description: Geared toward versatility and prolonged deployment in hostile environments, Marauders represent the cutting edge in todayÆs warship technology. While especially effective at support suppression and wreckage salvaging, they possess comparatively weak sensor strength and may find themselves at increased risk of sensor jamming. Nevertheless, these thick-skinned, hard-hitting monsters are the perfect ships to take on long trips behind enemy lines. So what? join IXC
Tomic The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.18 04:27:00 - [43] In all fairness let the carebears have em. The new t2 bs are a total failure of a class (or 2) of ships. I certainly won't be interested in paying 10m for them, let alone 1000m.
Corporal Fyarr	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:27:00 - [44] They should sell them for 50mill with basic t2 weapons and upgrades. Then people would think it would be a worth while investment.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:59:00 - [45] If you want to PvP in a Marauder, go ahead and PvP in it. Nothing and no one are stopping you. Well, except yourself and your expectations.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:32:00 - [46] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 18/12/2007 14:32:18 Well, dunno. All ships in Eve are better at some things and worse at some other things. These things are focused on PVE (missioning, ratting), but I really don't see why you couldn't use one for pvp. It's not ideal, but slap an ECCM on and you're pretty much good to go. Tbh, an ECCM is pretty mandatory anyway, unless you're missioning in highsec or some such boring stuff. To the OP: stop whining. Nothing is stopping you from pvp:ing in these, bar your wallet. You're not getting a bs-size HAC, that the devs have been quite clear on (and I can understand their reasoning). Don't like the Marauders? Don't fly them, get a faction bs for the same isk. Go pew pew.
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:08:00 - [47] I for myself was looking into the new BS to have something to compete with HACs, T2 BS should be somehow similar to them. T1 Cruiser -> T2 Hac T1 BS -?> T2 Marauder/Black ops i guess not. I like to fly BS more than to fly cruisers but isnt it strange that you cant beat them down with a ship two classes bigger? The new T2 bs are too expensive for their roles. join IXC
enymphia Malevolent Creation.	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:26:00 - [48] Why should the missionrunners have a specialized ship for PVE when the raven works just fine? Marauders should have the versitility to do good in pvp and pve, I mean we didnt want HAC-BS's but now we just got some crap that no one will use cuz there are some t1 options that are much more cost effecient and does the same jobb? What happened to the sandbox-thingy? i mean, the good thing about with eve is that u can do almost whatever u want with whatever ship, but not the marauders, they are limited to ONE specific thing and still not the best ship for that Thing(pve) Peace out, enypenny!
Sheila Chandra	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:42:00 - [49] Marauders definitly need to have a role in PvP ;) Reason nr1: We want to take down another one in fleet fight ^^
Aeleva Caldari Hegemonic Core	Posted - 2007.12.19 01:10:00 - [50] Golem is AWESOME. CCP you have done a great job with the TII BS. Please leave them as they are. They are NOT meant to be solo pwn mobiles and you managed to make two unique classes that can be used for a variety of roles. The marauders are basicly a great ship for NPC/Complexs/missions. I have already bought a golem for use in LVL4s. We dont need solopwnmobile ships, Current plan is perfect. Lots of people mission and WHY should everything ALWAYS be for PVPers. /rant

neutero	Posted - 2007.12.20 04:55:00 - [51] Originally by: Aeleva Golem is AWESOME. CCP you have done a great job with the TII BS. Please leave them as they are. They are NOT meant to be solo pwn mobiles and you managed to make two unique classes that can be used for a variety of roles. The marauders are basicly a great ship for NPC/Complexs/missions. I have already bought a golem for use in LVL4s. We dont need solopwnmobile ships, Current plan is perfect. Lots of people mission and WHY should everything ALWAYS be for PVPers. /rant Golem is inferior to CNR and costs 50% more. There's got to be something wrong with that. Boost the Golem
Samurai XII	Posted - 2007.12.20 10:02:00 - [52] 1 billion isk and they still die as quickly as their t1 counterparts. Failed ______________________ Just another cool alt.
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.20 10:08:00 - [53] Originally by: Aeleva Golem is AWESOME. CCP you have done a great job with the TII BS. Please leave them as they are. They are NOT meant to be solo pwn mobiles and you managed to make two unique classes that can be used for a variety of roles. The marauders are basicly a great ship for NPC/Complexs/missions. I have already bought a golem for use in LVL4s. We dont need solopwnmobile ships, Current plan is perfect. Lots of people mission and WHY should everything ALWAYS be for PVPers. /rant I agree, a ship with the dps of a Raven that's twice as vulnerable to ganks (ecms buff patch) and costs at least 10 times more. The extra midslot is totally worth the billions and the lost lowslot and rig. At the end you're paying for an extra shield boost amp and 3 highslots that you don't have grid for anything besides salvagers and tractor beams. Totally worth it imo. I bet everyone in a CNR wants that less dps, less rig and less low slot and less sensor strength and less shields and less armors for a shield boost amplifier and a midslot for over twice the price. EVERYTHING IS RIGHT, CURRENT PLAN IS PERFECT!
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.20 10:36:00 - [54] i just want to point out. for me a cms golem is slightly better than cms cnr for missions due to the golems tp bonus and higher apha. not near as good as the old torp cnr tough. still for pvp (even with curent market prices) marauders are arround 4-500 millons to expensive. for 700-800 mio i can almost buy a carrier which has 1000 times the survivability and does more dmg and has all arround better role. so for pvp marauders are = fail. and for pve marauders could still use a little boost.
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:11:00 - [55] Edited by: Wu Jiun on 20/12/2007 16:13:12 Some people don't understand. Marauders suck at PVE! (they suck at pvp too though...) So arguing how they are specifically made for pve is bull**. Just look at the golem it has a target painter bonus. Torps are mostly for PVP right now, do you get that? You don't need painters with cruise missiles. Ever thought about that? Kronos/Paladin have a web strength bonus which is useless for PVE. You don't kill small targets with your guns unless we are talking PVP. Vargur has a falloff bonus and can barely fit arties. You don't fit acs in missions usually. But in P V P*. CCP did not intend them solely for pve. They wanted to make them useful for pve and useful for pvp but with drawbacks. There is even a statement (by fendahl) about how the limitation on pg is to keep people from making overpowered nos/neut closerange* fits. That was again talking PVP. So people take your chill pills and for once use your brain. And indeed marauders need to be buffed or they will be as popular as the omen or the bellicose.
Sheila Chandra	Posted - 2007.12.20 17:41:00 - [56] How about you go in a fitting tool and try out some Marauder PvE fittings before you cry around that they are worthless in PvE???? They have enormous PvE potential if you fit them right. In a Raven you need a lot low/med slots to get good tanking abilities, depending on the Situation you need it, but the max setup i saw so far with rigs and max skills is slightly over 550dps. On a Golem you can easily get near 1000 dps theorethically with a much better tanking ability. The only real bad thing about it is that i did not found a good passive shield tank fitting yet, which i prefer on the Raven as the rats in 0.0 arent that hard to do. On the other side you can fit it very good and still have slots free for additional Stuff to play around with. In my eyes a very good ship. For sure too expensive to mess around with it in 0.0 for ratting, but it was never the intention to get a ship with it for that. As devs said, the Marauder is a carebear ship to have something work on in those long empire days ^^
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.20 17:51:00 - [57] Originally by: Aeleva Golem is AWESOME. CCP you have done a great job with the TII BS. Please leave them as they are. They are NOT meant to be solo pwn mobiles and you managed to make two unique classes that can be used for a variety of roles. The marauders are basicly a great ship for NPC/Complexs/missions. I have already bought a golem for use in LVL4s. We dont need solopwnmobile ships, Current plan is perfect. Lots of people mission and WHY should everything ALWAYS be for PVPers. /rant this. Feel free to copy my sig. Save the nice looking gallente ships!
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.20 18:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Sheila Chandra On a Golem you can easily get near 1000 dps theorethically with a much better tanking ability. Ok, newsflash: A golem does the exact same damage as a normal t1 raven given the same equipment. A cnr outdamages a golem. And to hit about 1000dps you need torps which aren't suited for most missions. And hate to state the obvious but you could fit torps on a raven too, just fyi. Originally by: Sheila Chandra On the other side you can fit it very good and still have slots free for additional Stuff to play around with. If you are talking about the utility his you might have a point. A raven does also have 2 of them though. And i really don't see what additional stuff next to tank and gank would be helpful for a mission or pve in general? And it wouldn't be worth 700m in anycase. Originally by: Sheila Chandra In my eyes a very good ship. For sure too expensive to mess around with it in 0.0 for ratting, but it was never the intention to get a ship with it for that. As devs said, the Marauder is a carebear ship to have something work on in those long empire days ^^ They never said that. Originally by: Sheila Chandra How about you go in a fitting tool and try out some Marauder PvE fittings before you cry around that they are worthless in PvE???? Mhhh. Maybe take you own medicine?
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.20 19:47:00 - [59] Would not hurt to give them super kick ass pvp ability. It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.20 22:03:00 - [60] Holy jesus. GOLEMS AND RAVENS DO THE SAME DPS GOLEMS AND RAVENS DO THE SAME DPS GOLEMS AND RAVENS DO THE SAME DPS This needs to be an official announcement or a stickied thread. It's unbelievable. The amount of "plus the golem has better dps", "the golem is like a state raven" and "can reach up to 1000 dps while the raven has around 500" is so ridiculous it hurts me PHYSICALLY.



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