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Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.19 07:15:00 - [1] Honestly CCP devs. You boost Caldari Recons A LOT, which was seriously needed but shows how much you were wrong initially with the ECM nerf (you overnerfed them initially, even with the role bonus). Now Caldari recons ARE imo what they are supposed to be. Minmattar Recons, we all know how good they are, and especially how many pilots fly them (even in solo work according to recent huggin videos i seen). They negate nanoships, they are ridiculusly good in a gate camp, they boost DPS of a fleet by TP etc. Amarr recons, im not going there. Curse and Pilgrim are pwnage in a can, though they arent really used for their EW (TD) capabilities per se, but for their combat ability. Oh by the way, amarr recons are the ONLY recons that have a non EW ability (neuts and nos. Gun bonus is their drone bonus). Coincidently, they get awesome bonuses on 2 PVP systems that received most attention the past year for their power in PVP, nos and drones.2 systems that got nerfed, but thankfully amarr recons didnt get ruined (only nos nerf affected them and yet not that much). So, ALL recon ships ARE awesome in what they do and how they do it, even if caldari needed to be buffed to go up there with the rest. WTF with Gallente Recons ? Honestly CCP go fly an arazu or a lachesis and compare it to any other faction Recon ship on its effectiveness. Now, a single frigate with MWD can negate or even kill a gal recon with no probs. Anyone can tell me that can happen with any other's faction recons? Caldari with jam it, min will web and kill it, amarr will laugh and then kill it. PLEASE look at the gallente recons closely, and dont let us wait a year or something to make them as important as other recons in the field. Thx
Shock Wave Caldari e X i l e Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.19 07:23:00 - [2] so gallente for once can pwn with guns adn drones QQ more, go fly a ishtar if u want to solo pwn face
Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.19 07:29:00 - [3] Edited by: Niama on 19/12/2007 07:30:50 Originally by: Shock Wave so gallente for once can pwn with guns adn drones QQ more, go fly a ishtar if u want to solo pwn face You obviosuly just want to bash with not even reading. for 1v1 gal recons are good (active all damps on 1 target, throw the drones and 2-3 soft rails and hope you break his/ger tank). EVE is hardly a 1v1 game Plus, Recon ships Arent ships designed for pure DPS pvp ability (drones and guns), but for assisting a fleet(gang) and/or affecting the target in other ways. Their cyno role is hardly used. HACs are classic dps/tank ships.
Don Juanito	Posted - 2007.12.19 07:32:00 - [4] if you think the amarr recons are fine you need to pull your head out of your a**. the popular nanodampcurse doesnt really work, but that ship can still be effective. the pilgrim, however, is by far the least effective of all the recons, as it has to operate in web range and is made of paper just like the other recons. the stealth nerf to TD's with scripting also helped out alot. so no, the gallente recons are not broken, theyre ok ish solo, and great for gangs, so stfu and stop whining.
Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.19 07:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Don Juanito if you think the amarr recons are fine you need to pull your head out of your a**. the popular nanodampcurse doesnt really work, but that ship can still be effective. the pilgrim, however, is by far the least effective of all the recons, as it has to operate in web range and is made of paper just like the other recons. the stealth nerf to TD's with scripting also helped out alot. so no, the gallente recons are not broken, theyre ok ish solo, and great for gangs, so stfu and stop whining. So the arguement is "its great for solo" "great for gangs". I say go fly them or read closely about them and have in mind that yes as ships they arent bad. They are just not good as the other recons, and why would you want to use a Gal recon over another ship lets say t1 blackbird or a HAC ? Also i laugh at the Clueless TD comment. Seriously, amarr recons BARELY used them anyway, and scripts affected those mods THE LEAST because you just use tracking script which TD is ALL ABOUT. NOONE cared for optima range reduction (which wasnt bad, just not useful besides special situations vs snipers). And you talk about curse losing pvp ability due to Damp nerf. LOL. IMAGINE the gal recons then ! its their freakin EW!
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.19 07:45:00 - [6] Because you want to warp scramble somebody from a longer range than normal? Or has that been nerfed on them? If t1 frigs are killing you I hate to tell you this, but it ain't your ship. Also, if this is a gang game, then why would any of the other recons solo pwning you 1v1 matter?
Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.19 08:00:00 - [7] Edited by: Niama on 19/12/2007 08:02:18 Originally by: J Valkor Because you want to warp scramble somebody from a longer range than normal? Or has that been nerfed on them? If t1 frigs are killing you I hate to tell you this, but it ain't your ship. Also, if this is a gang game, then why would any of the other recons solo pwning you 1v1 matter? Warp Scrambling from range is the ONLY EW that is 1) Non disruptive on field fighting 2) Useless on mid-long range fights (60km+). Usefull yes, but hardly electronic "warfare". as for the second part, I dont undestand what you are saying and i bet you dont either
Don Juanito	Posted - 2007.12.19 09:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Niama Edited by: Niama on 19/12/2007 08:02:18 Originally by: J Valkor Because you want to warp scramble somebody from a longer range than normal? Or has that been nerfed on them? If t1 frigs are killing you I hate to tell you this, but it ain't your ship. Also, if this is a gang game, then why would any of the other recons solo pwning you 1v1 matter? Warp Scrambling from range is the ONLY EW that is 1) Non disruptive on field fighting 2) Useless on mid-long range fights (60km+). Usefull yes, but hardly electronic "warfare". as for the second part, I dont undestand what you are saying and i bet you dont either dont be daft. my point was that damps nerfed the popular amarr recon setups as well. and the fact that TDS EVEN WHEN SCRIPTED ARE LESS EFFECTIVE. btw, both effects are useful when fighting in web range. as for your assertion that both EW's need to be useful, its ridiculous (which is why i've accepted that TD bonus is useless), go ahead and take a look at the minmatar recons. think target painting is "non disruptive on field fighting"? for the record, damps have great range, TD's are the ewar with the shortest effective range. seriously, the whine in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.
Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.19 09:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Don Juanito useless), go ahead and take a look at the minmatar recons. think target painting is "non disruptive on field fighting"? for the record, damps have great range, TD's are the ewar with the shortest effective range. seriously, the whine in this thread is absolutely ridiculous. You lost it sir I cant find something more disruptive than being killed much faster than normal. TP asserts to that. Im sorry to burst your bubble publically.
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.12.19 09:11:00 - [10] hehehe, i loved this nerf.

Dheorl Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.19 09:20:00 - [11] I cba to get into a whole big argument just would like to point out that optimal range reduction on tracking disruptors was and still is useful (apart from against snipers). Maybe you're just too stupid to find that use but thats your problem.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.12.19 10:08:00 - [12] Complaining about flying Gallente? Eve just turned crazy.. Gallente Recons are still usefull gangmembers for their warp scrambling at long ranges, and damps are still very feared in solo AND group action even after the balancing... And with a lowslot tank you have a ship better at surviving than perhaps a caldari ship that has to be at long range and fill lowslots with distortion amplifiers for full effect... I actually think the Amarr Recons are in a worse situations - more missile ships and more passive tanking making some popular shiptypes almost immune against their recons. Still Id ofcouse still think twice engaging one as they are still very much able to pvp... - I'm a nice guy!! But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored...
Allestin Villimar Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.12.19 10:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Niama You lost it sir I cant find something more disruptive than being killed much faster than normal. TP asserts to that. Im sorry to burst your bubble publically. They only kill you faster if you're in a small ship. ...in bed.
3rdD Dave Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2007.12.19 12:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Pinky Denmark Complaining about flying Gallente? Eve just turned crazy.. Gallente Recons are still usefull gangmembers for their warp scrambling at long ranges, and damps are still very feared in solo AND group action even after the balancing... And with a lowslot tank you have a ship better at surviving than perhaps a caldari ship that has to be at long range and fill lowslots with distortion amplifiers for full effect... I actually think the Amarr Recons are in a worse situations - more missile ships and more passive tanking making some popular shiptypes almost immune against their recons. Still Id ofcouse still think twice engaging one as they are still very much able to pvp... ARE U FOR REAL? oh and hi m8!
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.19 12:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Niama Originally by: Don Juanito if you think the amarr recons are fine you need to pull your head out of your a**. the popular nanodampcurse doesnt really work, but that ship can still be effective. the pilgrim, however, is by far the least effective of all the recons, as it has to operate in web range and is made of paper just like the other recons. the stealth nerf to TD's with scripting also helped out alot. so no, the gallente recons are not broken, theyre ok ish solo, and great for gangs, so stfu and stop whining. So the arguement is "its great for solo" "great for gangs". I say go fly them or read closely about them and have in mind that yes as ships they arent bad. They are just not good as the other recons, and why would you want to use a Gal recon over another ship lets say t1 blackbird or a HAC ? Also i laugh at the Clueless TD comment. Seriously, amarr recons BARELY used them anyway, and scripts affected those mods THE LEAST because you just use tracking script which TD is ALL ABOUT. NOONE cared for optima range reduction (which wasnt bad, just not useful besides special situations vs snipers). And you talk about curse losing pvp ability due to Damp nerf. LOL. IMAGINE the gal recons then ! its their freakin EW! I find the greatest bonus for galante is the distruptor bonus, even if the enenmy is jammed, he can just warp away. Mini is great? you have the distruptor bonus, mini web, you got nerfed damps, mini have frikkin target painters, and you dare whine? And yes, after all the nerfs amarr was hit hard, curse can stop gunfire, thats it... It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.12.19 14:08:00 - [16] Originally by: 3rdD Dave ARE U FOR REAL? oh and hi m8! Hi Dave - long time I'll send you a mail after christmas I'll have to play more but whining over the recons now is way too early - I'm a nice guy!! But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.19 14:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Niama Honestly CCP devs. You boost Caldari Recons A LOT, which was seriously needed but shows how much you were wrong initially with the ECM nerf (you overnerfed them initially, even with the role bonus). Now Caldari recons ARE imo what they are supposed to be. Minmattar Recons, we all know how good they are, and especially how many pilots fly them (even in solo work according to recent huggin videos i seen). They negate nanoships, they are ridiculusly good in a gate camp, they boost DPS of a fleet by TP etc. Amarr recons, im not going there. Curse and Pilgrim are pwnage in a can, though they arent really used for their EW (TD) capabilities per se, but for their combat ability. Oh by the way, amarr recons are the ONLY recons that have a non EW ability (neuts and nos. Gun bonus is their drone bonus). Coincidently, they get awesome bonuses on 2 PVP systems that received most attention the past year for their power in PVP, nos and drones.2 systems that got nerfed, but thankfully amarr recons didnt get ruined (only nos nerf affected them and yet not that much). So, ALL recon ships ARE awesome in what they do and how they do it, even if caldari needed to be buffed to go up there with the rest. WTF with Gallente Recons ? Honestly CCP go fly an arazu or a lachesis and compare it to any other faction Recon ship on its effectiveness. Now, a single frigate with MWD can negate or even kill a gal recon with no probs. Anyone can tell me that can happen with any other's faction recons? Caldari with jam it, min will web and kill it, amarr will laugh and then kill it. PLEASE look at the gallente recons closely, and dont let us wait a year or something to make them as important as other recons in the field. Thx I stopped reading after you said pilgrim was pwnage in a can. Good luck with all that. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Naviset	Posted - 2007.12.19 14:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Dristra Originally by: Niama Originally by: Don Juanito if you think the amarr recons are fine you need to pull your head out of your a**. the popular nanodampcurse doesnt really work, but that ship can still be effective. the pilgrim, however, is by far the least effective of all the recons, as it has to operate in web range and is made of paper just like the other recons. the stealth nerf to TD's with scripting also helped out alot. so no, the gallente recons are not broken, theyre ok ish solo, and great for gangs, so stfu and stop whining. So the arguement is "its great for solo" "great for gangs". I say go fly them or read closely about them and have in mind that yes as ships they arent bad. They are just not good as the other recons, and why would you want to use a Gal recon over another ship lets say t1 blackbird or a HAC ? Also i laugh at the Clueless TD comment. Seriously, amarr recons BARELY used them anyway, and scripts affected those mods THE LEAST because you just use tracking script which TD is ALL ABOUT. NOONE cared for optima range reduction (which wasnt bad, just not useful besides special situations vs snipers). And you talk about curse losing pvp ability due to Damp nerf. LOL. IMAGINE the gal recons then ! its their freakin EW! I find the greatest bonus for galante is the distruptor bonus, even if the enenmy is jammed, he can just warp away. Mini is great? you have the distruptor bonus, mini web, you got nerfed damps, mini have frikkin target painters, and you dare whine? And yes, after all the nerfs amarr was hit hard, curse can stop gunfire, thats it... The disruptor range bonus is kinda useless now that 5 additional ships in the game have enhanced scram range (outside of neuts which is all that really matters). In addition, all 5 of these ships are faster and lock quicker. So while scramming is still useful, the Arazu/Lach aren't the ships you use to do it. TDs are more useful than damps alone after the nerf because TDs aren't "all or nothing". Throw a tracking script in and hit a battleship with one and his DPS will falter considerably. Or use an optimal script on a zealot or something and see how he misses constantly (Because most people dont change their orbits mid battle, just a fact). Damps are kinda all or nothing.. you can either lock, or you can't. The only time damps are useful is lock time with ECMs really.
Kaiji Vincente	Posted - 2007.12.19 21:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Naviset The disruptor range bonus is kinda useless now that 5 additional ships in the game have enhanced scram range (outside of neuts which is all that really matters). In addition, all 5 of these ships are faster and lock quicker. So while scramming is still useful, the Arazu/Lach aren't the ships you use to do it. Recons don't pop the second a few light drones come at them. They also can orbit far enough out that mediums or heavies can be picked off while approaching. So yeah, I can see how extra scram range compared to the new "superior" tacklers is a worthless advantage. Quote: TDs are more useful than damps alone after the nerf because TDs aren't "all or nothing". Throw a tracking script in and hit a battleship with one and his DPS will falter considerably. Or use an optimal script on a zealot or something and see how he misses constantly (Because most people dont change their orbits mid battle, just a fact). Damps are kinda all or nothing.. you can either lock, or you can't. TDs don't do squat against missiles or drones. Sensor damps can still shut these weapons down, provided you can dictate range. Quote: The only time damps are useful is lock time with ECMs really. This one I actually agree with. It's also the only part that isn't predicated on certain weapon types being a non-factor in PvP. Coincidence?
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.19 22:07:00 - [20] hiccup

Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.12.19 23:12:00 - [21] sigh... I wish people would realize there is a huge difference between a ship can theoretically do on paper, and what it can actually do in-game. If only the EFT forum warriors could see what the difference is between piloting it pre-nerf and the steaming pile of fecal matter it is now. They are still marginally useful solo. But their usefulness in gangs has been massively reduced. Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Havok Pierce Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.20 01:54:00 - [22] Near as I can tell, a single damp (t2) will equal a single sensor booster (t2) in any given situation if the following conditions are met: You are flying the Arazu or Lachesis You have the Specialty Sensor Dampening skill to... Wait, nevermind. You can't kill a booster 1v1. Even with all related skills at 5. Oh well, time to play guessing games concerning which script to hit the other ship with. I'll go back to flying my sniff Lachesis now. Yes, I insist on still flying the poor things. They shall rise again from the ashes. Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.20 03:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Niama Honestly CCP devs. You boost Caldari Recons A LOT, which was seriously needed but shows how much you were wrong initially with the ECM nerf (you overnerfed them initially, even with the role bonus). Now Caldari recons ARE imo what they are supposed to be. Minmattar Recons, we all know how good they are, and especially how many pilots fly them (even in solo work according to recent huggin videos i seen). They negate nanoships, they are ridiculusly good in a gate camp, they boost DPS of a fleet by TP etc. Amarr recons, im not going there. Curse and Pilgrim are pwnage in a can, though they arent really used for their EW (TD) capabilities per se, but for their combat ability. Oh by the way, amarr recons are the ONLY recons that have a non EW ability (neuts and nos. Gun bonus is their drone bonus). Coincidently, they get awesome bonuses on 2 PVP systems that received most attention the past year for their power in PVP, nos and drones.2 systems that got nerfed, but thankfully amarr recons didnt get ruined (only nos nerf affected them and yet not that much). So, ALL recon ships ARE awesome in what they do and how they do it, even if caldari needed to be buffed to go up there with the rest. WTF with Gallente Recons ? Honestly CCP go fly an arazu or a lachesis and compare it to any other faction Recon ship on its effectiveness. Now, a single frigate with MWD can negate or even kill a gal recon with no probs. Anyone can tell me that can happen with any other's faction recons? Caldari with jam it, min will web and kill it, amarr will laugh and then kill it. PLEASE look at the gallente recons closely, and dont let us wait a year or something to make them as important as other recons in the field. Thx come on, the Gallente recons were nerfed to hell, but you're saying that the amarr recons are great? either you're very uninformed, or you're trolling hard. --- planetary interaction idea!
Air Scare Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2007.12.20 04:16:00 - [24] Damps were overpowered and needed nerfing. Fine. But gallente recons were not overpowered pre-Trinity. Everyone agreed with that. Lets not bring in other races recons. Therefore why not adjust the gallente recon bonus to make up for the difference the nerf made? Isnt that what just happened with the rook/falcon? They are making specialized ships the way they should be. Im pretty sure im 100% right in my thinking here. Change the bonus of 5% to 7.5% and call it a day. Damps are still nerfed to what they should be and the specialized ewar ships are as powerful as they should be.
Redglare's Demise Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.20 05:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Air Scare Damps were overpowered and needed nerfing. Fine. But gallente recons were not overpowered pre-Trinity. Everyone agreed with that. Lets not bring in other races recons. Therefore why not adjust the gallente recon bonus to make up for the difference the nerf made? Isnt that what just happened with the rook/falcon? They are making specialized ships the way they should be. Im pretty sure im 100% right in my thinking here. Change the bonus of 5% to 7.5% and call it a day. Damps are still nerfed to what they should be and the specialized ewar ships are as powerful as they should be. Winnar
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.20 07:55:00 - [26] Originally by: Redglare's Demise Originally by: Air Scare Damps were overpowered and needed nerfing. Fine. But gallente recons were not overpowered pre-Trinity. Everyone agreed with that. Lets not bring in other races recons. Therefore why not adjust the gallente recon bonus to make up for the difference the nerf made? Isnt that what just happened with the rook/falcon? They are making specialized ships the way they should be. Im pretty sure im 100% right in my thinking here. Change the bonus of 5% to 7.5% and call it a day. Damps are still nerfed to what they should be and the specialized ewar ships are as powerful as they should be. Winnar + same boost to tracking disrupters and its more equal. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.20 08:17:00 - [27] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Redglare's Demise Originally by: Air Scare Damps were overpowered and needed nerfing. Fine. But gallente recons were not overpowered pre-Trinity. Everyone agreed with that. Lets not bring in other races recons. Therefore why not adjust the gallente recon bonus to make up for the difference the nerf made? Isnt that what just happened with the rook/falcon? They are making specialized ships the way they should be. Im pretty sure im 100% right in my thinking here. Change the bonus of 5% to 7.5% and call it a day. Damps are still nerfed to what they should be and the specialized ewar ships are as powerful as they should be. Winnar + same boost to tracking disrupters and its more equal. Works for me. Buff Amarr. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.20 09:04:00 - [28] Who cares about a cruiser getting a warp disrupter range bonus? inty's get the same thing AND go waay faster AND have 3x the scan res. Gallente recons are useless for anything but fleet engagements,and even then, tere's faar better alternatives. ----------------- Friends Forever
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.20 09:22:00 - [29] Anyone who actually flies (or flew) the Gallente recons (as opposed to looking at EFT numbers) will tell you they are not really worth flying now. Sure, they can slightly hinder a single target with damps, and scramble at decent range... but if you want to do EW, you'll be 2-4x times more effective in a Rook, and if you want to tackle, the new inties and HICs are the way to go. The Gallente recons need a boost to their EW bonus, it's that simple. The same goes for the Amarr recons.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.20 09:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Gallente recons are useless for anything but fleet engagements,and even then, tere's faar better alternatives. Yeah, especially since fleet engagements happen at ranges where damps won't be very effective (due to low optimal range and lack of range bonus). Once again, Rooks & EMC will work much better there, due to the power and long range ECM has.



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