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Premium graphics not usable (for me and some others)

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Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Xaen on 20/12/2007 15:33:25 It seems the framerate issues have not been resolved with the patch. Dual clients frequently causes my framerate in one or both to drop to a steady 30FPS. Icon strobing continues. My framerate drops to 20fps in station when the lights pass over my ships. There's an absurd amount of UI-freezing disk I/O due to the fact that the client can't do two things at once (get data and display graphics). Increasing the cache simply coverts short, frequent lockups during I/O into long protracted lockups. It's just an all around abysmal experience. This is on a AMD X2 5300+ with a 7950GT, and 2GB of dual channel DDR RAM, EVE on a separate drive from windows that has nothing better to do when I'm playing than to get data for EVE. The classic client runs great. Never drops below my v-sync-capped 60fps. I mean Premium is gorgeous, don't get me wrong. But when it impairs gameplay I'll ditch it like an empty beer bottle. Don't misunderstand me, I love the game and I generally approve of CCP's attitude, culture, and goals, but to quote one of Henry Rollins' foreign fans, "your ** is all apart". To the obligatory trolls and fanbois: I'm not quitting. I don't like WoW. You can't have my stuff. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes**
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:32:00 - [2] Get more RAM. Turn shadows off. -- ISD Valorem: I choose you!
Trracer Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:36:00 - [3] On the 2nd client, try picking the other graphics adapter from the list and see what happens (it should list 2). Either you are for or against us, there simply is no other way
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:39:00 - [4] Premium works for relatively fine for me. I am sure there will be some tweaking by CCP over the next month or two though, to make it even smoother. But honestly, we knew before this publish the new graphic engine with the premium would be more requiering then the classic. Did we not? Its a engine for the future after all, and its built to last for the next 5-6 years. Originally by: Abrazzar OP needs to delete his boot.ini.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:42:00 - [5] I never thought it'd happen. But I finally found a poster worse than Jenny. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker But honestly, we knew before this publish the new graphic engine with the premium would be more requiering then the classic. Did we not? Its a engine for the future after all, and its built to last for the next 5-6 years. Even so, given his hardware specifications he shouldn't have problems running it. The problem seems different than just I/O lockup, though I could be wrong and don't have much experience with the premium client myself... ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.76.2
Cassius Longinus Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:49:00 - [7] I've had a lot of problems with running 2 clients as well (even though I have more than enough machine to handle it). To date, I've just limited myself to running 1 client at a time, but if the suggestions in this thread don't help... eve-o forum link with suggestions ...I'll probably revert to "classic". You are right, gameplay is more important that shiny (though I'll miss the purty ships).
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:49:00 - [8] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker But honestly, we knew before this publish the new graphic engine with the premium would be more requiering then the classic. Did we not? Its a engine for the future after all, and its built to last for the next 5-6 years. Even so, given his hardware specifications he shouldn't have problems running it. The problem seems different than just I/O lockup, though I could be wrong and don't have much experience with the premium client myself... Precisely. My box isn't bleeding edge, but it's not far from oldskool. I'm 90% certain I know exactly what the I/O issues are caused by: Data located in lots of small files (requiring lots of seeking) A tremendous amount of RAM needed to hold all the pretty graphics A single threaded client The rendering engine desperately needs to be in a separate thread from the data fetching one. This has been a problem since I started playing in '05. The UI freezes up while getting market data to refresh the market window. Market data! For the love of all Human Computer Interaction, read this CCP. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Cassius Longinus I've had a lot of problems with running 2 clients as well (even though I have more than enough machine to handle it). To date, I've just limited myself to running 1 client at a time, but if the suggestions in this thread don't help... eve-o forum link with suggestions ...I'll probably revert to "classic". You are right, gameplay is more important that shiny (though I'll miss the purty ships). Just for comparison's sake, have you tried running two instances of game with similar requirements to the EVE Trinity client? If so, how does the performance compare? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.76.2
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:51:00 - [10] Xaen, you've bugreported this yeah? With dxdiag's and stuff? Same to anyone else having problems. I was having many issues before the patch on Tuesday, mostly all solved now, so they are getting there. Originally by: An Anarchyyt I never thought it'd happen. But I finally found a poster worse than Jenny. Who? Xaen? What's wrong with his post? It's fairly standard fare for the GD. And mercifully fakeJenny seems to have disappeared \o/ ________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Apocryphai Who? Xaen? What's wrong with his post? It's fairly standard fare for the GD. And mercifully fakeJenny seems to have disappeared \o/ I'll assume you've never seen his other posts, which are all much much worse. But even in a thread like this he throws in those two completely unnecessary paragraphs at the end. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Apocryphai Xaen, you've bugreported this yeah? With dxdiag's and stuff? Yes. dxidag, msinfo too. But then requested logserver output. Sorry, but I barely have time to play, let alone be CCP's QA department. Originally by: Apocryphai Same to anyone else having problems. I was having many issues before the patch on Tuesday, mostly all solved now, so they are getting there. I tried it last night. Still broke as all hell. I'd rather play with an engine that works well than one that looks pretty. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:05:00 - [13] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I'll assume you've never seen his other posts, which are all much much worse. But even in a thread like this he throws in those two completely unnecessary paragraphs at the end. :-* Originally by: An Anarchyyt And of course, the fact that he is "90% sure" that he knows all the answers. Despite the fact that the majority are not having any problems. Do you have a Computer Science degree? I do. And I've been a professional developer for years. Building and troubleshooting computers for a decade. Still, I don't say I'm 100% sure because through experience I know that some things like this can be caused by some bizarre ass bug that causes double reads of files or something equally obscure. By the way, where did you get your "majority" statistic? Care to cite a poll? Any research? Or was it just you casually picking up the gist of things from the small subset of players that post in the small subset of threads that you read? Did you miss the fact that the petition system is so overwhelmed that the GMs have been forced to send out generic mass-suggestion responses? -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:07:00 - [14] Edited by: Andrue on 20/12/2007 16:09:19 Edited by: Andrue on 20/12/2007 16:08:18 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Apocryphai Xaen, you've bugreported this yeah? With dxdiag's and stuff? Yes. dxidag, msinfo too. But then requested logserver output. Sorry, but I barely have time to play, let alone be CCP's QA department. Good because I think most of us don't have time to care now. My AMDx2 6400+ and NVidia 7900GS runs two clients just fine. Having 4GB of RAM probably helps - as does 256MB on the video card. In the past lack of video RAM has caused me greif running multiple clients concurrently. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:09:00 - [15] I can run four clients simultaneously without any problems on a p4D (Prescott) 7600GT w 2 gigs of RAM. All get about 40-45 fps. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker But honestly, we knew before this publish the new graphic engine with the premium would be more requiering then the classic. Did we not? Its a engine for the future after all, and its built to last for the next 5-6 years. Even so, given his hardware specifications he shouldn't have problems running it. The problem seems different than just I/O lockup, though I could be wrong and don't have much experience with the premium client myself... Precisely. My box isn't bleeding edge, but it's not far from oldskool. I'm 90% certain I know exactly what the I/O issues are caused by: Data located in lots of small files (requiring lots of seeking) A tremendous amount of RAM needed to hold all the pretty graphics A single threaded client The rendering engine desperately needs to be in a separate thread from the data fetching one. This has been a problem since I started playing in '05. The UI freezes up while getting market data to refresh the market window. Market data! For the love of all Human Computer Interaction, read this CCP. Each client runs on a differnt core --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:13:00 - [17] Originally by: Arana Tellen Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker But honestly, we knew before this publish the new graphic engine with the premium would be more requiering then the classic. Did we not? Its a engine for the future after all, and its built to last for the next 5-6 years. Even so, given his hardware specifications he shouldn't have problems running it. The problem seems different than just I/O lockup, though I could be wrong and don't have much experience with the premium client myself... Precisely. My box isn't bleeding edge, but it's not far from oldskool. I'm 90% certain I know exactly what the I/O issues are caused by: Data located in lots of small files (requiring lots of seeking) A tremendous amount of RAM needed to hold all the pretty graphics A single threaded client The rendering engine desperately needs to be in a separate thread from the data fetching one. This has been a problem since I started playing in '05. The UI freezes up while getting market data to refresh the market window. Market data! For the love of all Human Computer Interaction, read this CCP. Each client runs on a differnt core Only if you explicitly setup processor affinity each time you start the client starts it up (not recommended). Otherwise the HAL load balances across them. It does this even with just one client. By the way, did you actually have a point? -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:15:00 - [18] Don't know if the GPU is really the thing causing slowdown. I have only a 7600 GT and I get 45 FPS average on both clients when running Premium graphics. CPU is a C2D E6400 and I have 2GB of memory - no problems whatsoever. -----
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Apocryphai Xaen, you've bugreported this yeah? With dxdiag's and stuff? Yes. dxidag, msinfo too. But then requested logserver output. Sorry, but I barely have time to play, let alone be CCP's QA department. Good because I think most of us don't have time to care now. So why are you posting in here? Originally by: Andrue My AMDx2 6400+ and NVidia 7900GS runs two clients just fine. Having 4GB of RAM probably helps - as does 256MB on the video card. In the past lack of video RAM has caused me greif running multiple clients concurrently. How nice for you! And also, irrelevant. I presume you're running a 64 bit OS as well? Because without it you're not using 4GB of RAM, but 3.5GB max. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:16:00 - [20] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I'll assume you've never seen his other posts, which are all much much worse. But even in a thread like this he throws in those two completely unnecessary paragraphs at the end. And of course, the fact that he is "90% sure" that he knows all the answers. Despite the fact that the majority are not having any problems. Yeah, OK, after seeing his replies after my post I get what you mean, he can't even be bothered to run the logserver ________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:18:00 - [21] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 20/12/2007 16:20:14 Originally by: Xaen ]Yes. dxidag, msinfo too. But then they requested logserver output. For someone who barely has time to play, you sure have quite a lot of time to moan, whine and complain. Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 20/12/2007 16:19:10 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: An Anarchyyt I'll assume you've never seen his other posts, which are all much much worse. But even in a thread like this he throws in those two completely unnecessary paragraphs at the end. :-* Originally by: An Anarchyyt And of course, the fact that he is "90% sure" that he knows all the answers. Despite the fact that the majority are not having any problems. Do you have a Computer Science degree? I do. And I've been a professional developer for years. Building and troubleshooting computers for a decade. Still, I don't say I'm 100% sure because through experience I know that some things like this can be caused by some bizarre ass bug that causes double reads of files or something equally obscure. By the way, where did you get your "majority" statistic? Care to cite a poll? Any research? Or was it just you casually picking up the gist of things from the small subset of players that post in the small subset of threads that you read? Did you miss the fact that the petition system is so overwhelmed that the GMs have been forced to send out generic mass-suggestion responses? Since you have so much expertise, and apparently all this knowledge, I am amazed that CCP have not come to you, and hired you to fix all problems. The "statistics" are merely empirical observations on conversations within the game. And of course, we know that the GMs have never EVER sent generic form letter-esque responses before.And as well, all petitions they are getting are issues that only relate to the premium content, nothing for anything else. No, I don't have a degree in any sort of computer related field, because as much as I'd like to, working with that type of stuff completely bores the hell out of me. The fact of the matter is, in every single post you make, you appear to act like you know everything, can program this game better than them, are Jesus, and reek of only-child-syndrome. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:19:00 - [22] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I never thought it'd happen. But I finally found a poster worse than Jenny. QFT....see Xaen im not the only one who thinks you deserve to be tied to a set of train tracks.
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Khanid Kutie Originally by: An Anarchyyt I never thought it'd happen. But I finally found a poster worse than Jenny. QFT....see Xaen im not the only one who thinks you deserve to be tied to a set of train tracks. I support the train tracks... Sig removed, inappropriate content. Cortes Yet it's allowed to be posted on teh forums -Postal
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Gone'Postal I support the train tracks... I third them. See, when we all work together, we can come up with good ideas. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
KingKenny Minmatar Under The Edge	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:32:00 - [25] I can use it fine for 1 client but when I load 2 clients forget it. I waited until the patch but turned the new graphics off. Eve Classic works just fine for me. When I come to replace my PC in a years time I may try it again. The new content looks great but I need a half decent frame rate. I wonder what the PVP guys do? I bet most turn premium graphics off for fleet battles.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:35:00 - [26] Seriously though, has anyone tried loading two instances of other games with graphics requirements similar to the EVE Premium graphics? I think that EVE is one of the only cases where running two clients with this kind of graphics quality is common, and I'm at work so I can't test anything myself. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.76.2
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:37:00 - [27] Originally by: An Anarchyyt The "statistics" are merely empirical observations on conversations within the game. Oh, you mean anecdotal evidence? Originally by: An Anarchyyt The fact of the matter is, in every single post you make, you appear to act like you know everything, can program this game better than them, are Jesus, and reek of only-child-syndrome. I'm glad I have such a dedicated fan that actually reads every single post I make! How flattering. I would consider applying for a job at CCP if it weren't for the fact that I will not move to Iceland. And so my only recourse for advocating improvements are petitions and suggestions. If I get frustrated and express it here, it's because there is much that has been provably broken for months if not years, yet they receives no perceivable by CCP to rectify them. And I'm not an only child. I take you don't have a psychology degree either..? -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:49:00 - [28] i dont get you, Xaen. you ask for help with a problem, and when people post something against the grain of what you think or feel, you flame them. So my question to the mods here is, why is this guy not having his posts locked for flamebait? As AA stated, if you know everything, why havent CCP contacted you to be project lead for fixing all of their problems in one fell swoop?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:54:00 - [29] No, I mean Empirical. The same could be easily asked of you though, where is your evidence that the majority of people are having issues? And Tar, I often run one Tranq and one Singularity client, and I am not experiencing any serious slowdown. And my computer is by no means all that amazing. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.20 17:19:00 - [30] My PC just locks up if I try and run 2 premium clients Much I care... "standard" is pretty enough and I spend most of my time zoomed out. Less eye-candy, more work on the UI pls. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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