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Premium graphics not usable (for me and some others)

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Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 18:46:00 - [31] Originally by: An Anarchyyt No, I mean Empirical. The same could be easily asked of you though, where is your evidence that the majority of people are having issues? I never once said or even implied it was a majority. If you double check the original post, even before editing it said, "for me and some others". I didn't even say many, let alone "majority". I don't know how you got that in your head. Tone down the fanboish tendencies and flame reflexes. I'm attempting to make the game better by providing honest - if brutal - feedback. And I try to provide suggestions to improve the game rather than just complaining. If everyone always thinks everything is fine, nothing ever gets better. Just look at Internet Explorer. It stagnated through several years and three major revisions without significant improvements usability or number of features until Firefox started eating up market share. Everybody thought it was fine until they realized how much better it could be. Sometimes it takes bad news or negative feedback to produce positive change! The drone improvements and the ability to move most of the windows around were the first UI improvements I've seen since I started playing the game! And even those were accompanied by other changes that several posters (myself included, despised). Such as hiding the minimize and close buttons until they were hovered over, and minimizing the overview and selected target windows when a "minimize all" hotkey is used. Oversight? Intended? Who knows! Just look at the UI link in my sig. Seven pages of supporters! Yet here we sit, wearing out right mouse buttons. And we have a gorgeous new graphics that I and several others have show stopper problems with. It may work fine for you, but for me it's not as good as the classic engine due to bugs and design flaws. Maybe not everyone agrees and thinks that blocking the entire client on I/O is a design flaw, but given that it's a solvable problem, I think it is. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2007.12.20 19:13:00 - [32] No train track tying of anyone! I am a train operator and people commiting suicide by jumping in front of trains is a big job hazard for train operators. Giving the operator lifelong traumas. DON'T DO IT. Jump off a fricking building instead. Thank you. btw there's a 50% chance of survival when jumping in front of a train, and it's not really a nice way of failing as you won't be able to make a second attempt without legs...
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.12.20 19:16:00 - [33] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor No train track tying of anyone! I am a train operator and people commiting suicide by jumping in front of trains is a big job hazard for train operators. Giving the operator lifelong traumas. DON'T DO IT. Jump off a fricking building instead. Thank you. btw there's a 50% chance of survival when jumping in front of a train, and it's not really a nice way of failing as you won't be able to make a second attempt without legs... i see what you did there....
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 19:21:00 - [34] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor No train track tying of anyone! I am a train operator and people commiting suicide by jumping in front of trains is a big job hazard for train operators. Giving the operator lifelong traumas. DON'T DO IT. Jump off a fricking building instead. Thank you. btw there's a 50% chance of survival when jumping in front of a train, and it's not really a nice way of failing as you won't be able to make a second attempt without legs... You're derailing my thread! -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.12.20 19:34:00 - [35] EVE has premium graphics??? Pentium core 2 duo here with 2 gig of ram and a 7600GT. no lockups or something but the fps drop is just too big to seriously run 2 clients at once, so i can choose, run 1 client with premium graphics semi ok (and even then i get a huge fps drop), or run 2 clients on classic graphics with great fps... hm.. difficult choice.. NOT!!! CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.20 19:40:00 - [36] Originally by: 000Hunter000 EVE has premium graphics??? Pentium core 2 duo here with 2 gig of ram and a 7600GT. no lockups or something but the fps drop is just too big to seriously run 2 clients at once, so i can choose, run 1 client with premium graphics semi ok (and even then i get a huge fps drop), or run 2 clients on classic graphics with great fps... hm.. difficult choice.. NOT!!! Do you have shadows enabled? That tends to slow things down a lot... ---------------- Tarminic - 30 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.76.2
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.20 20:35:00 - [37] Edited by: Andrue on 20/12/2007 20:36:38 Edited by: Andrue on 20/12/2007 20:35:47 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Andrue My AMDx2 6400+ and NVidia 7900GS runs two clients just fine. Having 4GB of RAM probably helps - as does 256MB on the video card. In the past lack of video RAM has caused me greif running multiple clients concurrently. How nice for you! And also, irrelevant. I presume you're running a 64 bit OS as well? Because without it you're not using 4GB of RAM, but 3.5GB max. Not true. If I've been running a lot of virtual machines (and I have recently) I use /PAE in boot.ini. Without it I only have access to 3.25GB on this mobo. It doesn't have much of an effect on Eve so it's hardly worth removing if I might need it for something else. It is particularly useful when I'm using VPC instead of VMWare. And the amount of RAM may very well be relevant. As might the graphics RAM which is why I mentioned that. Unfortunately in your infinite and stuck up wisdom you didn't bother to mention that. Obviously you're not really interested in a solution to the problem. You just want to *** and moan and attack other people. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.**
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 21:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Andrue My AMDx2 6400+ and NVidia 7900GS runs two clients just fine. Having 4GB of RAM probably helps - as does 256MB on the video card. In the past lack of video RAM has caused me greif running multiple clients concurrently. How nice for you! And also, irrelevant. I presume you're running a 64 bit OS as well? Because without it you're not using 4GB of RAM, but 3.5GB max. Not true. If I've been running a lot of virtual machines (and I have recently) I use /PAE in boot.ini. Without it I only have access to 3.25GB on this mobo. It doesn't have much of an effect on Eve so it's hardly worth removing if I might need it for something else. It is particularly useful when I'm using VPC instead of VMWare. And the amount of RAM may very well be relevant. What isn't relevant to how it works for me is how it works for someone else with different hardware. Of course the memory availble to eve is relevant. Calm down. I have 2GB and a 512MB video card. Also, read this and the next couple of posts after it.. To summarize, "You can run 4GB on a 32-bit operating system, but 1/2 to 1GB of the memory is used for memory mapping I/O." Which means your applications can't use it." Hence 3.5GB maximum. Also, if you're using XP on a reasonably current machine, PAE is already enabled by default. It is on my box here and at home and neither boot.ini has a /pae flag. There's no need to set it manually. Here's another very well informed poster from that same link, "A standard 32-bit x86 OS has 32 bits (4 GB) of address space. The x86 architecture uses the "upper" (from 4.00 GB on down) address space to use for addressing devices, such as the PCI bus. So the device address space consumes part of the total address space. The physical memory is simply used as a portion of the 4 GB virtual address space that data can be stored at for later retrieval. Because the device address space consumes address space and takes precedence over application data memory usage, you cannot use more than 3.something GB of RAM for applications. This is pretty well known. " A 32 bit OS simply cannot produce enough permutations of 1s and 0s to both address 4GB of memory AND physical devices. It's like trying to count to 11 on your fingers. There just aren't enough of them to go that high. I've had 4GB of RAM in my box. Windows only reports 3.5GB available. People with more hardware/PCI slots filled can use even less. Misinformation doensn't help anyone here. So please stop spreading it. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Photus Caldari Roll For Initiative	Posted - 2007.12.20 21:15:00 - [39] Originally by: 000Hunter000 EVE has premium graphics??? Pentium core 2 duo here with 2 gig of ram and a 7600GT. no lockups or something but the fps drop is just too big to seriously run 2 clients at once, so i can choose, run 1 client with premium graphics semi ok (and even then i get a huge fps drop), or run 2 clients on classic graphics with great fps... hm.. difficult choice.. NOT!!! Hehe, I'll bet I know what you're playing on too! Core2Duo, 2GB Ram, 7600GT myself. At first I thought that my system was just capable of running premium, but with HDR disabled. However, I lowered my resolution from 19201200 to a nice stable 1240something or other, and I can run two clients with HDR enabled fine. However, as people have stated, I have to turn the shadows to low. I am noticing jaggies everywhere though. Does advancedDevices=1 still work? It just goes to show you that you shouldn't kneel down in front of the third rail, grab it with both hands, and **** on it from three feet away.
DJ P	Posted - 2007.12.20 21:17:00 - [40] a) Make sure you have the latest drivers for all devices. b) turn off shadows.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 21:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Photus I am noticing jaggies everywhere though. Use nHancer! Originally by: Photus Does advancedDevices=1 still work? To some degree. It doesn't work as well as it used to (fewer goodies enabled). -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
KadaEl RONA Midgard Academy	Posted - 2007.12.20 21:46:00 - [42] I used to be able to run 3 instances of EVE simultaneously; I typically didn't do it but I could if I wanted to. Now, I can run 2 EVE's (Classic) for about an hour before I get complete and total lockups and have to restart. I can run one client (Classic) for an entire playing stint without noticing any ill affects. Premium becomes unplayable (unless sitting in station is considered playing) with: shadows off, trials off, sound off, cache off, occluding off, new video card drivers, new video card (256mb), fresh install, blah blah blah. I can't be bothered to rattle off every stat of my computer and flaunt my eClevage, but I can rattle off some important ones: XP Pro, 2 gigs of RAM, an nVidea 7600, and an AMD processor which is about 15 months old. I chat with a good deal of people in game, and there are about 250 or so people who I communicate with who are having similar problems running with multiple clients. I've perused the "Known Issues and Workarounds" forums extensively and have yet to find any fix; just a bunch of people complaining. I've resorted to just running a single client in Classic mode, but I would like to actually play the game in Premium - it's quite pretty. If throwing in another gig of RAM will do it, then I will begrudgingly ask Santa for RAM - but I would prefer someone saying, "yea I had this exact problem and 3 gigs of RAM is the sweet spot." Because so help me if Santa gives me RAM and it doesn't fix it, I'm going to be so bitter... ♥Kada ------------------------------------------- KadaEl RONA Midgard Academy Teaching the world of tomorrow
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 21:54:00 - [43] Originally by: KadaEl I used to be able to run 3 instances of EVE simultaneously; I typically didn't do it but I could if I wanted to. Now, I can run 2 EVE's (Classic) for about an hour before I get complete and total lockups and have to restart. I can run one client (Classic) for an entire playing stint without noticing any ill affects. Premium becomes unplayable (unless sitting in station is considered playing) with: shadows off, trials off, sound off, cache off, occluding off, new video card drivers, new video card (256mb), fresh install, blah blah blah. I can't be bothered to rattle off every stat of my computer and flaunt my eClevage, but I can rattle off some important ones: XP Pro, 2 gigs of RAM, an nVidea 7600, and an AMD processor which is about 15 months old. I chat with a good deal of people in game, and there are about 250 or so people who I communicate with who are having similar problems running with multiple clients. I've perused the "Known Issues and Workarounds" forums extensively and have yet to find any fix; just a bunch of people complaining. I've resorted to just running a single client in Classic mode, but I would like to actually play the game in Premium - it's quite pretty. If throwing in another gig of RAM will do it, then I will begrudgingly ask Santa for RAM - but I would prefer someone saying, "yea I had this exact problem and 3 gigs of RAM is the sweet spot." Because so help me if Santa gives me RAM and it doesn't fix it, I'm going to be so bitter... ♥Kada Lockups are not normal, no matter the number of clients. It might be a heat issue. If it does now, and didn't used to there's a chance you've got dust filling up your heatsinks. Open the case squirt some canned air in there. Also, make sure your fans are still spinning. There was one set of cards some friends and I had where the fan simply up and died. It doesn't sound like your system is sorely lacking, you should at least be able to run classic speedily. Do you have anti virus programs or google desktop/svn client running in the background? When dual clienting I don't actually have both visible at once. I alt+tab between them. You could give that a try if you can tolerate the tabbing. The only common issue I've seen between classic and premium is the "look at" function only works about half the time. Classic runs fantastic. Premium is a gorgeous glitchy nightmare. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.12.20 22:25:00 - [44] Out of curiosity Xaen, got sound enabled? _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.20 23:53:00 - [45] Originally by: Pwett Out of curiosity Xaen, got sound enabled? Only ever on one client at a time, if any. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Photus Caldari Roll For Initiative	Posted - 2007.12.21 17:09:00 - [46] Look at is broken for you too? Good, I was worried it was only me. Thought I was doing something wrong or something. Too bad too, as FRAPS videos are made much easier with those camera options working. OK, things to try when I get home: Sound off new nvidia drivers (released last night I guess) nHancer advancedDevices=1 (though I guess nHancer would render this moot) It just goes to show you that you shouldn't kneel down in front of the third rail, grab it with both hands, and **** on it from three feet away.
KadaEl RONA Midgard Academy	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: KadaEl I used to be able to run 3 instances of EVE simultaneously; I typically didn't do it but I could if I wanted to. Now, I can run 2 EVE's (Classic) for about an hour before I get complete and total lockups and have to restart. I can run one client (Classic) for an entire playing stint without noticing any ill affects. Premium becomes unplayable (unless sitting in station is considered playing) with: shadows off, trials off, sound off, cache off, occluding off, new video card drivers, new video card (256mb), fresh install, blah blah blah. I can't be bothered to rattle off every stat of my computer and flaunt my eClevage, but I can rattle off some important ones: XP Pro, 2 gigs of RAM, an nVidea 7600, and an AMD processor which is about 15 months old. I chat with a good deal of people in game, and there are about 250 or so people who I communicate with who are having similar problems running with multiple clients. I've perused the "Known Issues and Workarounds" forums extensively and have yet to find any fix; just a bunch of people complaining. I've resorted to just running a single client in Classic mode, but I would like to actually play the game in Premium - it's quite pretty. If throwing in another gig of RAM will do it, then I will begrudgingly ask Santa for RAM - but I would prefer someone saying, "yea I had this exact problem and 3 gigs of RAM is the sweet spot." Because so help me if Santa gives me RAM and it doesn't fix it, I'm going to be so bitter... ♥Kada Lockups are not normal, no matter the number of clients. It might be a heat issue. If it does now, and didn't used to there's a chance you've got dust filling up your heatsinks. Open the case squirt some canned air in there. Also, make sure your fans are still spinning. There was one set of cards some friends and I had where the fan simply up and died. It doesn't sound like your system is sorely lacking, you should at least be able to run classic speedily. Do you have anti virus programs or google desktop/svn client running in the background? When dual clienting I don't actually have both visible at once. I alt+tab between them. You could give that a try if you can tolerate the tabbing. The only common issue I've seen between classic and premium is the "look at" function only works about half the time. Classic runs fantastic. Premium is a gorgeous glitchy nightmare. All my fans are running, and I'll shove some canned air in there (instead of just blowing really hard) sometime later tonight and see how that works out. Cheers for the tips. ------------------------------------------- KadaEl RONA Midgard Academy Teaching the world of tomorrow
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:17:00 - [48] Originally by: KadaEl All my fans are running, and I'll shove some canned air in there (instead of just blowing really hard) sometime later tonight and see how that works out. Cheers for the tips. Be careful when you do it. I've had a couple of experiences where I got a little overzealous with the canned air and I seem to have blown some dust up into the axle (for lack of a better word) or bearings of the fan and made it terminally noisy. Point the pressurized air through the heatsink vents, avoiding, if you can, the fan itself. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Photus Caldari Roll For Initiative	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:25:00 - [49] You want the computer off as well, and make sure that you get the dust OUT, not just move it around (dust is electrically conductive). I typically open up the case, have a vaccuum in one hand and the canned air in the other: air comes out, hits the componants, lifts teh dust and it all goes into the vaccuum. Sort of unneeded now with the iMac, but its still a good trick to pass on. It just goes to show you that you shouldn't kneel down in front of the third rail, grab it with both hands, and **** on it from three feet away.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:30:00 - [50] Originally by: Photus You want the computer off as well, and make sure that you get the dust OUT, not just move it around (dust is electrically conductive). I typically open up the case, have a vaccuum in one hand and the canned air in the other: air comes out, hits the componants, lifts teh dust and it all goes into the vaccuum. Sort of unneeded now with the iMac, but its still a good trick to pass on. A good idea, but be very careful. All that air moving through the vaccum creates an absurd amount of static charge. I had a customer that fried his mother board this way. Make sure you're grounded and holding the vacuum at all times. I would suggest leaving the power cord plugged into the machine and keep contact with the case (assuming it's steel) if you're gonna use the vacuum. another alternative would be to do it outside, or with a big fan to move the dust away from the case. Dust isn't conductive (I've seen machines that were half a pound heavy from being full of it, and still operating normally), but it's a great thermal insulator. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
L70Rogue	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:34:00 - [51] maybe you have too little ram, I heard 4gb is the way to go.
Snowcrash Winterheart2 Gallente Concordia Discors	Posted - 2007.12.21 20:04:00 - [52] I think 4GB would be 'better' but I'm pretty confident 2GB can do it so long as you turn the cache down/off (and suffer the performance hit). Actually I'm pretty sure turning Cache off would do it. ----- Four paws... four sets of claws.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.22 01:51:00 - [53] Unless I'm misunderstanding the OP, I don't see the problem. 20-30 fps while running 2 clients at the same time is bad?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.22 05:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Hannobaal Unless I'm misunderstanding the OP, I don't see the problem. 20-30 fps while running 2 clients at the same time is bad? I get 60 when it's working correctly. Then something glitches and I'm getting exactly 30 (horizontal FPS graph). Then when it starts seizing up completely during disk I/O and prohibiting target locking due to strobing I'm done trying. Functioning > pretty. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
CHAOS100 Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.12.22 05:52:00 - [55] I am perfectly able to run the prem, but I am running classic because of the horrible stability that brings CTD's in the middle of fights with prem. --------------
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.24 20:19:00 - [56] give it a few months it cant be perfect the first time around Trashed sig, Shark was here
Securion Wolfheart Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.12.24 20:45:00 - [57] 1. More often than not i have to undock --> abort undock, to be able to see anything in my hangar and items folder. 2. Any kind of shadows makes the most of the screen turn into black squares and all trails turns black as well. Oh, and all blinking lights gets f-ed up pretty bad. 3. I/O is weird... It seems to wanna read and/or write to the disk all the time. Btw, the new graphics looks GREAT! Thanks CCP for a great work. So i just wish it could run a bit less buggy... Oh well, with time i guess... Some people want to know: ôHow can you convince these people that they are wrong and you are right?ö My first thought is, ôWho cares?ö
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.12.24 20:51:00 - [58] Edited by: northwesten on 24/12/2007 20:55:45 I have memory leak issues! I switch them to classic and lowered the graphic and turned off cache etc! I don't every thing i can! I cant run 3 account like i did before. Before Trinity I could run up to 7 accounts after it i can run one with out restarting! I don't have heat issue and my computer fine! I only having trouble with EVE So yer this upgrade just killed the game for me! I cant do much with 3 accounts so after this month 2 going dead and the 3rd going to finish! Until i know there a memory leak sorted! So Pirates of the burning sea here i come Oh yer and still got now support from CCP on forums or otherwise Great! Trinity Corporate Services
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:04:00 - [59] I have an update. Over the weekend I noticed that my freaking classic client was exhibiting the same symptoms as the premium. That is, it was running at 30FPS (FPS meter drawing a hoizontal line at 30 FPS). So I bring up task manager on my other screen and put focus back on EVE's window. EVE is only using 15-20% CPU! I don't know why. So I reboot. Restart EVE. 60 FPS. Bring up task manager, EVE is using 40-50% CPU (on a dual core box). In short, the problem seems to be EVE is failing to take focus and utilize sufficient CPU to draw the game. So it seems the classic client shares at least one bug with the premium one. CPU underutilization. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:16:00 - [60] On my desktop I can run two clients at 1280x1024 in premium. Both run at about 60-80fps depending of course on what is going on at the time. Never go below 40fps, however. Playing with a 8600-gt, 2.6ghz dual core intel chip, 2 gigs of ram and a pk5 mobo. Handles it very well. Ofc, HDR and shadows are off. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ... General Aesthetics Changes Thread

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