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Mavil	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:44:00 - [61] Edited by: Mavil on 25/12/2007 17:52:04 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer English is not my mother tongue. Its my 4th language ok? You speak how many? You got a college degree? Do you ever feel important and superior in real life? Im guessing no, then you wouldnt have to brag about how you are superior to others by not doing one little spelling error. FAIL. Well, I'm a native English speaker and couldn't grok what he was saying. =/ If you ever figure it out, let me know. At any rate... what IS your mother tongue? -Liang Swedish. /OT Ok, not to be rude, but English is your 2nd language unless you were taught other languages apart from Swedish before school age. You most likely started studying English at the age of 7 (1st grade), or by the 4th grade if your school didn't do what very many other Swedish schools do. Other languages taught in Swedish schools start in grade 7 at earliest (that I've heard of), so that would make them your 3rd or 4th languages. Of course you might have parents from 2 countries that aren't Sweden so that you were taught other languages before school age, but that's not all too likely. And yes, I'm Swedish. Why did I go on a rant like this? I don't know. I guess you just annoyed me. /OT To go slightly more on topic; a vaga is a very good ship, but it's by no means overpowered. I have no idea what ship you were in when a vaga beat you, but I'm guessing it wasn't a BC or higher, right? Its DPS isn't all that great, and it suffers due to its high velocity aswell which makes it unable to break any decent tanks fielded on most combat ships. The main complaint people seem to have about vagas isn't how it kills them, it's how they don't kill it. I'm sorry, but that's an idiotic logic for combat prowess. It doesn't make it more dangerous in combat, it just makes it better at picking its fights. They can kill weak ships and catch ECM boats that warp in at a long distance, but they won't do too much in a stand-up fight. For that you need numbers, and it's not even a cheap ship to begin with. The average fit (including ship) is around 200-230mil, and insurance isn't gonna help you much if you get blown up. Am I totally mistaken if I say that you were not in a ship above that price tag and were defeated by a vaga, right? Ways of beating them have also already been stated. Don't pretend Huginns or Rapiers (and now even Hyenas) are even rare. I see them all the time in all sorts of scenarios.
Dillius Archania Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:11:00 - [62] Originally by: Mavil Ways of beating them have also already been stated. Don't pretend Huginns or Rapiers (and now even Hyenas) are even rare. I see them all the time in all sorts of scenarios. Off topic here as well, but not everyone wants to have to fly a huginn/rapier all of the time.
Mavil	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:23:00 - [63] Originally by: Dillius Archania Originally by: Mavil Ways of beating them have also already been stated. Don't pretend Huginns or Rapiers (and now even Hyenas) are even rare. I see them all the time in all sorts of scenarios. Off topic here as well, but not everyone wants to have to fly a huginn/rapier all of the time. You don't have to fly one. You can have a friend fly one, OR you can be in a ship that's above its price class which it almost certainly can not beat due to its tank being heavier than the vaga's DPS. But basically what you're asking for is for vagas not to be able to beat ships way cheaper than itself, just because you don't like bringing a ship that's specialized in catching it, and because you don't like flying ships that pack a heavier tank than a cruiser?
Fencer Acrux	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Jihong Jun Edited by: Jihong Jun on 25/12/2007 00:16:45 Edited by: Jihong Jun on 25/12/2007 00:15:43 both of you need to go back to school. if you can't spell "sentences" and start correcting another person's sentence structuring, you leave little room in your own defense. usually when someone says " i rest my case" it's commonly referred to as figurative speech. basically saying, "point proved" or "my point exactly". i think you both are in need of some english lessons. idiots. and vaga sucks btw. The vagabond sucks? Why, because you put your tail between your legs and run whenever you see one? Or is it because they easily escape your bubbles and gate camps? The vagabond is the best ship in the game without a doubt. It's speed and firepower are unriveled in Eve and it is extremely survivable, a desired trait in my alliance. When we PvP, our first goal is to not lose any of our own ships and to kill some enemy ships. Not losing our ships is more important than killing the enemy due to the demoralization is causes in our enemies. The fastest ship decides if there will be a fight or not, so the vagabond always gets to pick. Yes, the vagabond can be countered, but it strikes fear in the hearts of my enemies whenever I show up in mine. BTW, you need truly outstanding skills to be a good vagabond pilot, all others are just posers.
Nizomi Caldari Technopolis Ventures	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:39:00 - [65] Originally by: Fencer Acrux Originally by: Jihong Jun Edited by: Jihong Jun on 25/12/2007 00:16:45 Edited by: Jihong Jun on 25/12/2007 00:15:43 both of you need to go back to school. if you can't spell "sentences" and start correcting another person's sentence structuring, you leave little room in your own defense. usually when someone says " i rest my case" it's commonly referred to as figurative speech. basically saying, "point proved" or "my point exactly". i think you both are in need of some english lessons. idiots. and vaga sucks btw. The vagabond sucks? Why, because you put your tail between your legs and run whenever you see one? Or is it because they easily escape your bubbles and gate camps? The vagabond is the best ship in the game without a doubt. It's speed and firepower are unriveled in Eve and it is extremely survivable, a desired trait in my alliance. When we PvP, our first goal is to not lose any of our own ships and to kill some enemy ships. Not losing our ships is more important than killing the enemy due to the demoralization is causes in our enemies. The fastest ship decides if there will be a fight or not, so the vagabond always gets to pick. Yes, the vagabond can be countered, but it strikes fear in the hearts of my enemies whenever I show up in mine. BTW, you need truly outstanding skills to be a good vagabond pilot, all others are just posers. Vagabond is the best ship for hit and run. That doesnt make it the best ship in the game. And yes I fly vagabonds, and huginns/rapiers. I also fly cerb and eagle. And there are situations where I'd rather take a cerb over a vaga. Ofcourse it works the other way around too. And this topic was about what ship is the best one all around, and I dont think a vaga would deserve that honor.
Adonai RisenStar Gallente Deathwatch Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:51:00 - [66] Edited by: Adonai RisenStar on 25/12/2007 18:54:51 faction fitted absolution! and yes, me and Lyria drink the tequilia egg nog together! All is right in the world! [center] Risen's Art for ISK - Custom made images, sigs, logos, etc. tailor made to your specification! Competative pricing and absolute
Zhulik Abyss Restless Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:33:00 - [67] I'd have to say Arazu. I mean, it still soloes ratting BSes, can break through virtually every camp, engage quite a number of ships rather safely or choose not to. Also, it almost always escapes when the Neighborhood Watch comes.
Steyr Daghan thx for all the fish Minuit.	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Fehnrail Ferox. Ferox best ship in the game? Bartender, I'll have whatever he's having!
Fehnrail Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:17:00 - [69] Originally by: Steyr Daghan Originally by: Fehnrail Ferox. Ferox best ship in the game? Bartender, I'll have whatever he's having! You have no idea. That ship can fit like two HAM launchers and five blasters only with three or four RCUs. There is fighting, and then there is fighting: Some weapons are more useful than others, and not all battles must be won.
Royaldo Gallente DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:50:00 - [70] pilgrim if you arent able to pawn with it then its you.. you suck. quit the game. also. apoc. pure win.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.12.25 22:02:00 - [71] Originally by: Mavil Edited by: Mavil on 25/12/2007 17:52:04 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer English is not my mother tongue. Its my 4th language ok? You speak how many? You got a college degree? Do you ever feel important and superior in real life? Im guessing no, then you wouldnt have to brag about how you are superior to others by not doing one little spelling error. FAIL. Well, I'm a native English speaker and couldn't grok what he was saying. =/ If you ever figure it out, let me know. At any rate... what IS your mother tongue? -Liang Swedish. /OT Ok, not to be rude, but English is your 2nd language unless you were taught other languages apart from Swedish before school age. You most likely started studying English at the age of 7 (1st grade), or by the 4th grade if your school didn't do what very many other Swedish schools do. Other languages taught in Swedish schools start in grade 7 at earliest (that I've heard of), so that would make them your 3rd or 4th languages. Of course you might have parents from 2 countries that aren't Sweden so that you were taught other languages before school age, but that's not all too likely. And yes, I'm Swedish. Why did I go on a rant like this? I don't know. I guess you just annoyed me. /OT To go slightly more on topic; a vaga is a very good ship, but it's by no means overpowered. I have no idea what ship you were in when a vaga beat you, but I'm guessing it wasn't a BC or higher, right? Its DPS isn't all that great, and it suffers due to its high velocity aswell which makes it unable to break any decent tanks fielded on most combat ships. The main complaint people seem to have about vagas isn't how it kills them, it's how they don't kill it. I'm sorry, but that's an idiotic logic for combat prowess. It doesn't make it more dangerous in combat, it just makes it better at picking its fights. They can kill weak ships and catch ECM boats that warp in at a long distance, but they won't do too much in a stand-up fight. For that you need numbers, and it's not even a cheap ship to begin with. The average fit (including ship) is around 200-230mil, and insurance isn't gonna help you much if you get blown up. Am I totally mistaken if I say that you were not in a ship above that price tag and were defeated by a vaga, right? Ways of beating them have also already been stated. Don't pretend Huginns or Rapiers (and now even Hyenas) are even rare. I see them all the time in all sorts of scenarios. Actually english IS the 4th language i learned. I learned swedish and my parents language (wich isnt swedish) at the same time, then i went to a german pre school at the age of 5. English I started at school in 5th grade. I think I know my life better then anyone else. English is my 4th language. Honestly Ive only been killed by a vaga once and I was sitting in an inty and being webbed by a 7km/s sabre. This is no personal crusade against the vaga from my part just because Ive lost against it. I still find it a bit strange to give 1 race a ship in one class being sooo much faster. Ive explained why several times, Im not gonna repeat myself so well have to disagree I guess. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Mavil	Posted - 2007.12.25 22:47:00 - [72] Thanks for the clarification, I've just had people use that excuse so many times (inaccurately) it's getting on my nerves. The vaga is a fast ship, but keep in mind it's almost exclusively a turret ship. That messes with its own tracking if it goes too fast, even further reducing its DPS. Speed is however what Minmatar ships have got going for them. I sure don't go "Why doesn't my Hurricane have a larger drone bay?! Gallente has that!". There's a reason the factions are split into specializations. Namely diversity. Speed is a problem, no doubt, but ships designed to go fast (meaning they lack other strengths) going at speeds of around 5-7km/s sure isn't the big problem.
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:07:00 - [73] Originally by: Yaggher Xanuben How can it be, 70% of you (so far) thinks an amarr ship is the best to fly in. And then again you want to get boosted. Anyway, I would go with Rook. There is no contradiction of thinking that lasers sucks(Amarrs prefered weapon) and thinking Sacriliege is good, since that ship is using missiles only. Same reason why I think Nightmare is a better battleship than all pure Amarr battleships, be it T1 or T2, using more missiles = less drain on cap. And all those mid slots doesn¦t hurt either. Never seen that ship in action though, but it looks extremly good in theory.
Anope High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 02:06:00 - [74] Edited by: Anope on 26/12/2007 02:06:42 @@@@@@@@@@@ C'mon guys stay on topic @@@@@@@@@@@ I'm going to have to say Nanomach is still the best pwnmobile -------
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.12.26 05:08:00 - [75] Originally by: Mavil Thanks for the clarification, I've just had people use that excuse so many times (inaccurately) it's getting on my nerves. The vaga is a fast ship, but keep in mind it's almost exclusively a turret ship. That messes with its own tracking if it goes too fast, even further reducing its DPS. Speed is however what Minmatar ships have got going for them. I sure don't go "Why doesn't my Hurricane have a larger drone bay?! Gallente has that!". There's a reason the factions are split into specializations. Namely diversity. Speed is a problem, no doubt, but ships designed to go fast (meaning they lack other strengths) going at speeds of around 5-7km/s sure isn't the big problem. Yeah but why not give it a tracking bonus and remove the speed bonus. It will still be the fastest one, but not by a large margin and it will still hit stuff in orbit as compensation and just like the othe nano hacs can. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.12.26 05:24:00 - [76] Originally by: Royaldo pilgrim if you arent able to pawn with it then its you.. you suck. quit the game. also. apoc. pure win. Haha. Good one. I think the sarcasm detector just blew up. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:32:00 - [77] Edited by: Gort on 27/12/2007 20:32:13 Originally by: Steyr Daghan Originally by: Fehnrail Ferox. Ferox best ship in the game? Bartender, I'll have whatever he's having! You both ***** me up. Gorty Edit: Guess cr@ck is bad.... -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.27 21:02:00 - [78] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Adonai RisenStar web, neut, shoot 2 rounds or sick the drones, dead vaga. you must have been fighting T1 fresh meat or T2 carebears. orbiting vaga is hard to hit, but if he's smart, he won't come into any type of web range to land some hits. crap dmg too while the vaga nano orbit outta web ranges. zzzz at dmg. done. Im sorry but I read your post several times and it doesnt make sense. Please write complete sentenses because I honestly didnt understand what you just said. I love my Vagabond, but it's actually a pretty delicate ship. That is, it has NO tank, but only an hp buffer. The vagabond requires a significant amount of micromanagement to fly without losing it. It's hard to kill one solo cause it's basically a heavy interceptor, but one is about as likely to kill YOU solo as a drake is. So allow me to translate: Web it, it's done. Neut it, it's done. Sic drones on it, it's done. Orbiting vagabond is hard to hit, but if he's smart, he won't come into any type of web range to land some hits, so he'll be doing fairly crappy damage. Scoff at his damage, hit him harder, and laugh as he explodes. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:09:00 - [79] I've been owned by ishtars of late so I'll go with that. Also, I'd run from a drake if I saw it. Why waste money shooting at it ineffectively until I run out or find some friends?
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:26:00 - [80] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/12/2007 22:27:23 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I still find it a bit strange to give 1 race a ship in one class being sooo much faster. Ive explained why several times, Im not gonna repeat myself so well have to disagree I guess. It's intended to do so; it's one of the rare ships being used exactly as it was designed, making it overall the best designed ship in the game. Other nano-HACs weren't outright designed to be nano-HACs and have to be worse at speed as a trade-off; they have other advantages though. All the other HACs short of a Diemost (well, depends what I'm flying) worry me more. The only reason why I'll get the skills to fly a Vagabond at some point is that I want to fly the Sleipnir someday; since I like the Cyclone so much I think I'll love the Sleipnir. Rifters!
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:11:00 - [81] Originally by: amarrly Edited by: amarrly on 23/12/2007 23:51:15 just wondered what ship everyone favours or runs from, since new patch, nerf and shiney new ships? amarr pilots will be forgiven for not posting............ I am not that smart, my eve strategy is kinda like my sex life...I will fight anything with 2 engines and a pulse. One time I suicided my vigil against a nosdomi! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Sedai Hara The Forsakened Companions Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:34:00 - [82] Supercapitals or any ship you can make go over 2-3km/s and fit a Lare shield extender too, basicly. (Also known as Nano-hacs/recons, best used in packs for the most fun) To be honest there isnt one, single ship that is "the best" at the moment nor the most populair one. But cruiser sized hulls are pretty common at the moments. Comapred to the Battleship fad (nanophoon) that rage a looong while back. But atleast no ship is overpowered to the limit anymore. Also: Vaga isnt a solowtfpwnbbqmobile, and it wont be in qiet some time. Native laungage : Swedish so spelling isnt perfect. ----------------------------- Originally by: Ozzie Asrail A mega without 3 magstabs fitted is like kladdkaka without chocolate.
amarrly Amarr Servant's of order	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:36:00 - [83] Originally by: Anope Edited by: Anope on 26/12/2007 02:06:42 @@@@@@@@@@@ C'mon guys stay on topic @@@@@@@@@@@ I'm going to have to say Nanomach is still the best pwnmobile ------- now theres a ship to truley fear the nanomach, dont see to many of them about these days, and while were on faction anyone pvp in the bhalgorn since nos nerf?
LukeIamYourMother Hedion University	Posted - 2007.12.28 01:27:00 - [84] Think the ship that gives me most trouble atm is Arazu. Alot of fighting nowadays is either blob, speed, and/or gang.. for me that prefer to fly alone or in small groups it's always down to chosing when to fight. I like the hit and run, one on one fights, especially if there's a chance that I will lose my fight so I have to focus and really dedicate myself to it. Nothing can ruin that so much as an Arazu or Rapier can do. Speed ships can be annoying but in most cases you can escape before they hit you, so you chose when to engage or not (as do they, losing to them generally means you didn't pay attention or fell into a trap). Well, I failed the OP's question, "what ship .. favours or run from". I can't run from the ones I mentioned, that's why I find them annoying. The main threat I can think of that I can run from but do ruin most of my PvP tho, wouldn't be a ship.. but the warp bubble gate camps. Give me space to swing my Abso or Sac, tired of having to go speed and/or stealth and/or gang and/or scout just to PvP.
Vagrant Storm Caldari Rulers Of Mankind Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.28 03:36:00 - [85] Vagas are not the king of all ships...but alot of people won't bother to engage them. You pretty much have to be lucky to get one in web range and even after you get it webbed you might not be able to keep it in web range unless you already are going your max speed and in the same direction as the Vaga. It is my goal to finally kill one of these things, but I never can get a gang going when there are reports of a small gang of Vagas coming towards the system.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.12.28 04:34:00 - [86] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/12/2007 22:27:23 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I still find it a bit strange to give 1 race a ship in one class being sooo much faster. Ive explained why several times, Im not gonna repeat myself so well have to disagree I guess. It's intended to do so; it's one of the rare ships being used exactly as it was designed, making it overall the best designed ship in the game. Other nano-HACs weren't outright designed to be nano-HACs and have to be worse at speed as a trade-off; they have other advantages though. All the other HACs short of a Diemost (well, depends what I'm flying) worry me more. The only reason why I'll get the skills to fly a Vagabond at some point is that I want to fly the Sleipnir someday; since I like the Cyclone so much I think I'll love the Sleipnir. But amarr ships are intended to tank. Why doesnt absolution tank several hundred dps more then a sleipnir? I mean sleip has its thing, its pretty damn fast... --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.28 04:44:00 - [87] Hi forums I missed you; Ok, a few errors in this thread that need to be pointed out. "Vaga only has an HP buffer, it has no tank" If thats how you wanna think about it, that can apply to any amarrian ship that PvPs w/ lasers. IF you fit lasers, you fit a buffer, not active repair. Vaga isn't alone in this is it? Its got pretty good resitances for no mods either, 75/60/40/60. "The vaga does ** poor DPS @ range" I guess if 300 DPS @ range is ** poor (170 turret DPS, 130 drone/missile DPS). I wonder how much the zealot does around those ranges too.... I guess that means the zealot is something you should just laugh at too, as it does nearly no damage either, while going slower and being less versatile with no drones, no missiles and one less turret. "Webs/Neuts as a counter" Barring faction, how many webs work out to past 18 km? How about sub Large neuts? Oh right, sorry BCs and below, hope your set up for ACTIVE/PASSIVE tanking, your screwed if you use a buffer tank, just like the vaga. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.12.28 04:47:00 - [88] Originally by: shinsushi Hi forums I missed you; Welcome back. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.28 05:45:00 - [89] Edited by: shinsushi on 28/12/2007 05:47:26 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: shinsushi Hi forums I missed you; Welcome back. Thanks Truly, as things stand now few ships are on the level of the vagabond. Here is a huge argument levved towards leaving the vaga alone. "The vaga is one of the only ships left that I can solo and/or fight outnumbered in. If you take it away then there is nothing but gank-tank and blobbing." Well, these people need to realize that no one is trying to kill thier fun, but they would like to have fun aswell. In the above statement there is an inherent flaw, if a ship will allow you to fight out-numbered, doesn't that make it superior to the ships it is facing? Given a balanced scenerio, wouldn't numbers > all with current game mechanics? Now that last bit is the important part, current game mechanics. The problem that you complain about, blobbing, is a result of more always being better in eve. There isn't alot of dimishing returns, but there are alot of exponential returns leading to the blobbing in eve. Simply defending a ship's blatent overpowereness (my word) in order to get around a poorly designed scaling system isn't a good position to take. See, here is another problem. More = better doesn't just apply to blobbing, it applies to SPs and experience too. Right now its more noob friendly, as in 3 x noobs can take out a character 3 times their collective sp. Pick a side I guess..... An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.28 06:41:00 - [90] Originally by: amarrly Edited by: amarrly on 23/12/2007 23:51:15 just wondered what ship everyone favours or runs from, since new patch, nerf and shiney new ships? amarr pilots will be forgiven for not posting............ When they see a titan on grid, everybody runs. I wonder if you want to be told the new fotm, or are just asking what got buffed. For the first, play the freaking game, and for the 2nd, read the freaking patch notes. Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks.

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