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Malicious Wraith Minmatar The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2007.12.25 16:50:00 - [1] Edited by: Malicious Wraith on 25/12/2007 16:49:49 You hear "Intended role" as one of their most commonly used, and sometimes their only validating reason for nerfing. EvE Online is a game where you are meant to go out of the box, provide creative freedom, functional option, tradeoffs and the ability to be "surprised" by the extreme deviation of norm, that may very well become the norm due to its effectiveness, when it comes to ships, and just about anything that you do. CCP, keep your new Ban Stick on tabs. Dont dumb down your game (Which, sadly, you are doing.). P.S. This is not pointed at any nerf in particular, but if anything, its probably pointed at the speed nerf. ----------------------------------------
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.25 16:52:00 - [2] My inty still does 10km/s. ________
Malicious Wraith Minmatar The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:51:00 - [3] Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? ----------------------------------------
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:55:00 - [4] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? Because, thats why. ☼☼☼ 12 Seconds ☼☼☼
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:56:00 - [5] Glad to see I'm not the only one who is disappointed to see this game getting more and more simplified with every patch. -----
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:41:00 - [6] Clearly it is pointed at the mention of rebalancing speed, and you are mistaken (extreme speed is still out of hand, look at the limits of the supposed small ship 'counters', 5km/sec light drones for instance)... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:14:00 - [7] It's a fair point though. A huge amount of diversity in ship setups has been lost over the years to the point where you can look at a particular ship and have a very good idea of how it's setup.
Jawas Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? It's their "intended role" -- Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds.
Malicious Wraith Minmatar The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Jawas Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? It's their "intended role" ----------------------------------------
Anya Sardukar	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? Because this thread is a stupid whine and no one cares.
Malicious Wraith Minmatar The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Anya Sardukar Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? Because this thread is a stupid whine and no one cares. Seems to me that you are with the few. Perhaps you should stop speaking for everyone. ----------------------------------------
Anya Sardukar	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Originally by: Anya Sardukar Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? Because this thread is a stupid whine and no one cares. Seems to me that you are with the few. Perhaps you should stop speaking for everyone. Let me put it another way, then: Can I have your stuff?
JADE DRAG0NESS Dark Scorpions Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Originally by: Anya Sardukar Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? Because this thread is a stupid whine and no one cares. Seems to me that you are with the few. Perhaps you should stop speaking for everyone. Sounds more like Most people who play eve and come here have a life and family to go to hence they are not here a lot. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Originally by: Anya Sardukar Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? Because this thread is a stupid whine and no one cares. Seems to me that you are with the few. Perhaps you should stop speaking for everyone. Or maybe your argument is poor enough that the majority of posters don't bother with it? ---------------- Tarminic - 30 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.77.2
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.26 01:57:00 - [15] The OP has a legitimate point. I'd never heard "intended role" in nerfs before. It was always "Oh wow, we didnt expect players to do that! Here's some changes to help with that new idea..." - - - Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2007.12.26 02:13:00 - [16] The reason for the lack of diversity has to do with the overwelming advantage of readily predictable setups...such as nano, uber tank, uber gank...etc. It has little to do with specific nerfs. As for the speed nerf, no ship should go more than 10x its own base speed. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.26 02:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Originally by: Anya Sardukar Originally by: Malicious Wraith Why do the threads that bring up valid points die, while those that are antagonistic and stupid live? Because this thread is a stupid whine and no one cares. Seems to me that you are with the few. Perhaps you should stop speaking for everyone. This just in: You don't speak for everyone either.
Jawas Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.26 03:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Anubis Xian The reason for the lack of diversity has to do with the overwelming advantage of readily predictable setups...such as nano, uber tank, uber gank...etc. It has little to do with specific nerfs. If a ship is best with a specific setup, doesn't that define the role better than the title does? A Typhoon is a battleship but so are the other two Minmatar battleships, what makes each one unique? This wholesale nerfing soon means that one battleship is no better than the other two so why not get rid of the other two? Originally by: Anubis Xian As for the speed nerf, no ship should go more than 10x its own base speed. Wholesale nerf of a given module results in making another module uber, which then gets nerfed resulting in another becoming uber... Ad nauseum until everything is nerfed into uselessness. Nerf a speed mod and it just makes webbers, scrams and bubbles uber because you can never get enough speed to get away. It also makes missiles uber since the only effective counter is speed. Missiles were nerfed a while ago already because they were overpowered. Does a speed nerf mean another round of nerfing for missile users too? An example of lack of speed is the Hulk mining barge. Web, scramble and pew pew one and the pilot of it may as well walk away from the keyboard. Nothing they can do will save them. Apply this to all other ships and it will result in certain ships never being used because they cannot tank or gank worth sh*t either. Only ships that can tank or gank will get used, the rest will be consigned to the junk pile. -- Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.26 03:48:00 - [19] Simplifying EvE? Have you read any of the dozens of whines that each patch is adding unnecessary complications? Truth be told, I find both whines abhorrent, but I fail to see how adding things like scripts makes the game any easier.
Kal Shakai Dominus Imperium	Posted - 2007.12.26 03:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Wild Rho It's a fair point though. A huge amount of diversity in ship setups has been lost over the years to the point where you can look at a particular ship and have a very good idea of how it's setup. This is the danger that the game balancers are not heading. By having "intended roles" you kill the sandbox nature of a great game and everything becomes predictable. They need to slow their roll and rethink what got them here in the first place.
Kal Shakai Dominus Imperium	Posted - 2007.12.26 03:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Jawas Nerf a speed mod and it just makes webbers, scrams and bubbles uber because you can never get enough speed to get away. It also makes missiles uber since the only effective counter is speed. Missiles were nerfed a while ago already because they were overpowered. Does a speed nerf mean another round of nerfing for missile users too? Another very perceptive post. With the current trend it won't be long before all modules and setups are so weak that we might as well spit on each other.
Kal Shakai Dominus Imperium	Posted - 2007.12.26 04:03:00 - [22] Originally by: J Valkor Simplifying EvE? Have you read any of the dozens of whines that each patch is adding unnecessary complications? Truth be told, I find both whines abhorrent, but I fail to see how adding things like scripts makes the game any easier. The adding of scripts was not a bad thing. I fully support it. However, this is a rare example of how they have added complexity and diversity to the game.
Malicious Wraith Minmatar The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2007.12.26 05:10:00 - [23] Intelligent discussion is good. ----------------------------------------
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.26 05:39:00 - [24] what is with the whining? nerfing one ships makes the game go FARTHER away form the one ship one set up. Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.26 05:54:00 - [25] Well on the one hand everybody using the same setups is dull, boring and lame. On the other hand all this talk about 'intended roles' makes me fear EVE in heading in the direction of a class based game system. I agree the sandbox nature of EVE should be preserved. The problem I see is that with every new class of ships it's harder to maintain the 'blanket, non classed' ships approach. The smaller the differences between ships, the harder it gets to justify their right to exist. If you find enough 'roles' it's much easier, but .. no more sandbox. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.26 06:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Well on the one hand everybody using the same setups is dull, boring and lame. On the other hand all this talk about 'intended roles' makes me fear EVE in heading in the direction of a class based game system. I agree the sandbox nature of EVE should be preserved. The problem I see is that with every new class of ships it's harder to maintain the 'blanket, non classed' ships approach. The smaller the differences between ships, the harder it gets to justify their right to exist. If you find enough 'roles' it's much easier, but .. no more sandbox. I don't mind as long as tech 1 ships are flexible and tech 2 ship are more role based. meaning that tech 1 ships are still useful! oh wait that what eve already is :P Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi
Vaal Erit	Posted - 2007.12.26 06:06:00 - [27] How has Eve been dumbed down exactly? Please gives examples. Because one of the biggest nerf in trinity was the rsd nerf and that made eve smarter, not dumber. Before trinity you could slap on 3 damps and laugh at your enemies 8km lock range and 50+ second lock time. Now you have more freedom, two ways to fit your rsd ship and fight, not just a solowtfpwnmobile. Second nerf in trinity was drones, but not really a nerf, I don't see how a slightly smaller drone bay for a myrm kills the game. Whiners like you that can't play the game should stay off the forums and whine to your computer screen, just do what you do now just don't click on Post Thread ever, ever again.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.26 06:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Vaal Erit Edited by: Vaal Erit on 26/12/2007 06:07:52 edit Speed nerf on dictors has been commented on by the devs, T2 ships are very specialized ships and the role of interdictors is to drop a bubble and die, not kill interceptors or be untouchable(which they weren't before but oh well) edit How has Eve been dumbed down exactly? Please gives examples. Because one of the biggest nerf in trinity was the rsd nerf and that made eve smarter, not dumber. Before trinity you could slap on 3 damps and laugh at your enemies 8km lock range and 50+ second lock time. Now you have more freedom, two ways to fit your rsd ship and fight, not just a solowtfpwnmobile. Second nerf in trinity was drones, but not really a nerf, I don't see how a slightly smaller drone bay for a myrm kills the game. Whiners like you that can't play the game should stay off the forums and whine to your computer screen, just do what you do now just don't click on Post Thread ever, ever again. BUT!... oh wait.., :P Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Kal Shakai Originally by: Jawas Nerf a speed mod and it just makes webbers, scrams and bubbles uber because you can never get enough speed to get away. It also makes missiles uber since the only effective counter is speed. Missiles were nerfed a while ago already because they were overpowered. Does a speed nerf mean another round of nerfing for missile users too? Another very perceptive post. With the current trend it won't be long before all modules and setups are so weak that we might as well spit on each other. This argument/prediction/observation is SO old, and it was terrible when it was first being repeated over and over. Way to copy someone else's dumb simplified overreaction... again. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Vaal Erit Edited by: Vaal Erit on 26/12/2007 06:07:52 edit Speed nerf on dictors has been commented on by the devs, T2 ships are very specialized ships and the role of interdictors is to drop a bubble and die, not kill interceptors or be untouchable(which they weren't before but oh well) edit How has Eve been dumbed down exactly? Please gives examples. Because one of the biggest nerf in trinity was the rsd nerf and that made eve smarter, not dumber. Before trinity you could slap on 3 damps and laugh at your enemies 8km lock range and 50+ second lock time. Now you have more freedom, two ways to fit your rsd ship and fight, not just a solowtfpwnmobile. Second nerf in trinity was drones, but not really a nerf, I don't see how a slightly smaller drone bay for a myrm kills the game. Whiners like you that can't play the game should stay off the forums and whine to your computer screen, just do what you do now just don't click on Post Thread ever, ever again. Dictor nerf was unneeded you obviously dont fly 1 Mr nobody and show your ******* alliance ticker I hate argueing with a nobody. Dictors now suck hairy donkey balls and fly slower than t2 cruisers thats ok though isnt it!!?? Just wait untill they nerf your fav ship fanboy and see how much you love CCP. meh

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