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PvP? A game for billionairs?

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Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:07:00 - [91] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Dirk Magnum Take for example the second-to-best-named web vs. the T2 web. It's not a billionaire's game, in any event. Heh...Fleeting web is better in all aspects than the T2 one. :-/ gg CCP apart from the fact you can't manufacture them in droves in the middle of 0.0. People always forget this when they put down t2 -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:14:00 - [92] tbh i understand where the OP is comeing from, since i can fly a fair few ships i can't afford to lose too oftern, not because i can't make the isk, but because i've done just about every method of isk makeing short of T2 invention and scaming and tbqfh most of them bore the crap out of me these days, about the only methods of isk makeing i enjoy now is exploration and the odd mission run with a gang. Though the fact that i live in the drone regions and dealing with drone **** is incredibly tedious might have something to do with it. - (combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:19:00 - [93] It always amuses me when people think it is a mistake that certain named items are better than T2. It is not an accident about Fleeting Webs, Phased Muon Damps, and others. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:23:00 - [94] Its not a game for billionaires, but you will need to have steady income. Its not going to be something you can do exclusively, unless you're part of a corp that's generous with the loot from the wrecks. Personally, I have a mining alt that can generate 50 million ISK a night mining. Its my solution to the headache of financing my combat ships. Some people do invention, some run missions, some rat for bounties. This is the PvP version of the same speach given to carebears. If you want it, EARN IT!
Alz Shado Ever Flow Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:27:00 - [95] Edited by: Alz Shado on 26/12/2007 20:29:07 I'm a billionaire, and I only PvP in cruisers. T2 Battleships are for fleet ops. If there's a good chance that I'm going to lose my ship by the end of the night, a 3-5m cruiser is really the only way to fly, maintaining a great balance of survival vs risk. Midrange named mods and weapons (such as Prototype and Malkuth) fit on an ewar Cruiser will tackle and kill just about anything short of a BS (and some will do that too, especially in packs) and won't cost more than a few L3 missions. Pre-Trinity, my personal favorites are the Rupture (dmg) and Celestis (ewar). I know a couple Caracal pilots who I'd be afraid to fly against in anything short of a Tier-2 BS, and Blackbirds are always a threat.
Soraya Silvermoon Langoliers	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:29:00 - [96] I agree to the fact that you dont need a lot of isk/TII stuff to pvp. But I think the majority of the frustration causing this thread and making people speculate in such things are the fact that 0,0 isnt lawless anymore. 0,0 have become empire only with player corps and alliances running stuff. not like in 03 when you could fit a ship and go roaming in totally lawless space without having to pass 7 dictorbubbles and a 30 man fleet concisting of boored campers everytime you made a jump into 0,0. The no reason soloplayer gladiator pits containing old style ultravoilence is extinct. The old players probably know what I`m refearing to when I mention 2003-2004 a2-v27. I wish we had some space for that. some regions with lots of gates limiting chokepoints and with no pos allowed so people could just sod about everywehre. And it would have to be beig eonugh to spread out people.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:31:00 - [97] Edited by: cal nereus on 26/12/2007 20:31:50 Originally by: Estephania Whine thread? That's not a whine at all. It's just an observation of the fact. In 2005 I had less SP, less ISK and less skill and I didn't feel like I'm dragging behind or can't compete. Now I have around 30 mill SP, 1 bill in cash and more experience, yet I feel that I'm hopelessly outISK'ed by today's PvP. Dude, I have less than half your sp and not even a quarter of your cash, but I feel like I've been a valuable contribution to my alliance's operations. How is my tech-1 fit battleship useless? Hint: It isn't. Ya, lots of players in this game and even in my alliance drastically out-isk me and out-sp me. Do I care? Nope. All I care about is whether I'm helping my alliance or not. And I am. You can too. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:52:00 - [98] It seems to me that it is not a question of how effective you can be or how useful you are to your fleet, everyone knows even a T1 frig can make the difference between a kill and no kill (the problem being when everyone is reduced to flying T1 frigs ) and a T1 fit BS is perfectly useful in most gangs. Where ISK really makes a difference to high SP characters is some people for various different reasons can’t afford to field all the nice T2 stuff they have trained for as much as they would like to, particularly for HACs, Recons, CSs etc. I highly doubt any MMO out there has managed to come up with a system for allowing players who are short on time or maybe just hate grinding to make a larger amount of isk in a shorter amount of time that is "unfarmable" to players who do have more time, its probably not even in there interest to do so, the more we play the game the less chance we have of leaving it. - (combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:58:00 - [99] you can pvp whit t1 cruiser... 10-15m and ur good to go. tho i dont fly ships that cost below 200m.... fit a t2 fit BS- 200m (tier ones can be cheaper) command ship... 250-300m hac- 150m... fit rigs... 200m recon... same as hac but i know ppl who use t1 cruiser and they have 20-30m sp and they are happy to pvp like that. id be correct to say that about 10% of eve player can even afford to loose one ship like that in a week. ( i mean command ship and such). 90% are the average joe who fly t1, mybe some t2 fit ships in pvp ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:40:00 - [100] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Dirk Magnum Take for example the second-to-best-named web vs. the T2 web. It's not a billionaire's game, in any event. Heh...Fleeting web is better in all aspects than the T2 one. :-/ gg CCP Cost? Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ... General Aesthetics Changes Thread
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:56:00 - [101] Originally by: cal nereus Edited by: cal nereus on 26/12/2007 20:31:50 Originally by: Estephania Whine thread? That's not a whine at all. It's just an observation of the fact. In 2005 I had less SP, less ISK and less skill and I didn't feel like I'm dragging behind or can't compete. Now I have around 30 mill SP, 1 bill in cash and more experience, yet I feel that I'm hopelessly outISK'ed by today's PvP. Dude, I have less than half your sp and not even a quarter of your cash, but I feel like I've been a valuable contribution to my alliance's operations. How is my tech-1 fit battleship useless? Hint: It isn't. Ya, lots of players in this game and even in my alliance drastically out-isk me and out-sp me. Do I care? Nope. All I care about is whether I'm helping my alliance or not. And I am. You can too. Well spoken!
Cybele Lanier	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:51:00 - [102] This is a tangent, but it would be good to see more ship setups in the Ship & Fittings forum that weren't apparently designed for mega-millionaires with skills of Everything V. I'd guess that quite a few people see them and get a false impression that they can't compete.
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.27 03:44:00 - [103] Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 27/12/2007 03:44:37 Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Originally by: Sicil Fioet ok so they pay more, They pay for GTCs with ISK, in many cases. It's a pyramid scheme, where newer players buy a bit of ISK for startup capital a few times, and older players simply pay for one, two or three accounts with ISK.And honestly, the richest players will hardly miss a billion ISk a month to play for free with five accounts. Earning ISK for GTCs still takes time, so those who hold multiple accounts either pay more with their time or $ than you. If you browse through 3rd quarter economic report you'll see that really only 5% of players have enough ISK in wallet to pay up 1b each month and not care for it, while a much greater portion than 5% of player base engages in pvp, and quite successfully at that. Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Originally by: Sicil Fioet ...they play more, No, they don't. They simply accrue three times as many skill points per day on three different characters, so they are free to pursue three specialized careers at will. They switch when needed. They obviously have to play more because even if you have 3+ accounts they aren't going to generate ISK by just sitting there and accumulating skill points. They "pursue three specialized careers" by playing which each character which takes much more time than playing with one account (and consider that a lot of players cannot run more than 2 accounts at the same time on their computer). Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Quote: ...and hence they have more stuff than you and you think this is unfair? this is just usually how it goes in mmo games and you either put up with it, find your own niche and don't compete against the uber players who can afford this kind of play style, or you don't play mmos at all Yeah, but EVE is extremely bad about encouraging multiple accounts. Three accounts gives you three times as many skill points, in essentially the same amount of time, and allows you to make a good deal more ISK. In "grind" games, no matter how many characters you have, often you still will only advance your level and whatnot while you're playing that particular character anyway. First of all you overestimate the importance of skills points in your ISK-making ability. Ok so you got 3 accounts and are accumulating 6000 sp/h instead of 2000 sp/h - how does this make you a billionaire without you having to put in the effort? What separates the poor and rich players is how they play and how much time they put into the game, not how many "levels" aka sp you gained. Second holding more accounts does cost you more in you money/time so it is only natural that you have more virtual stuff in the end. Just like in games such as WoW those who cannot play as many hours each week end up behind everyone else. What you're saying is that these rich players don't pay more than you, and don't play more than you, and by virtue of just sitting there with their accounts accumulating sp they end up being rich and uber in pvp just cuz they have been playing longer. After playing a bit over a year I can tell you this is definitely not so. It is how you play and how many hours you put in that will determine how rich and powerful you get in the game - not sp and number of accounts. You can become one of the richest players in game with just one account - I've seen it happen and that's why i consider this line of reasoning false.
Mordrake Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 03:52:00 - [104] I always drop good loot ; ] "Arte et Marte"
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.12.27 04:08:00 - [105] Solo in cheap ship classes like inty's which also have the side effect of being actual player skills dependent, inty dogfights are some of the most fun and interactive fights I have ever had in eve. Gang pvp in E-war and logistics ships, again cheap and player skill factors in more since you have to fight on your own initiative. Specialize and focus your skills so you actually are backing these ships up with lvl5's. Or you can fly expensive overrated dps ships and join the masses of skilled pvpers who can ctrl+click on the right name and press F1-F8 better than anyone else
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.27 05:00:00 - [106] Pvp is all about attitude fly what you can loose and all that. Personally my PVP ship of choice is a Cyclone, people may chuckle about that but it's damn cheap (about 30-35 mil for ship plus fittings) and I've been pretty succesful with it I won't go on and on extolling its virtues here but with the right skills it's seriously underrated imo. A 'small' gang of 5-7 Battlecruisers is nothing to scoff at and can do a lot of damage and its dirt cheap compared to something like a nano gang. Our corp is based out in 0.0 and we don't have access to the greatest thriving T2 market in our area, most t2 mods we build go onto ships for fleet ops or gate camping if we want to pvp in small gangs we grab throwaway ships and fit them out with 'crap' t1 items from our corp hanger ratting loot stuff thats waiting to be reprocessed and things like that. Normally we roam around in gangs of 6-10 flying Ruptures, Caracals, Thorax, Celestis etc. If We kill 1 vagabond or 1 Ishtar even if we all die we are ahead on an isk vs isk comparison and I gurantee we almost always kill more isk then we loose if your smart about your fitings (good ew use etc) and have a good commander, tech 1 cruisers can be great fun to fly and its costs the corp nothing to replace them. A good example was about 2 weeks ago where we had 2 Hurricanes, a rupture, 2 caracals, a thorax and a Celestis all T1 fitted with 'scraps' and we killed a Sabre, 2 Stillettos, a Vagabond and heavily damaged an Ishtar which was finished off by allies after we died, sure we lost all our ships but the damage inflicted on the enemy gang was nothing to be ashamed of. Sure tech 2 items give you an edge and they should you are paying a premium for them but they are not essential to have fun pvping its all about attitude, personally I'd get bored flying expensive solo pwnmobiles, suicide t1 cruisers are great fun sure enemies will laugh at your fittings on their killboard but what do you care eve's about having fun not impressing people.
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.12.27 07:56:00 - [107] Originally by: MotherMoon you know in an rts, which eve is, every unit has it's use. do you stop using marines just because you have better stuff? Quite honestly, Yes. Never use a unit which is less useful than another unit. That is called sound strategy. The only reason you would EVER consider doing so is if the "worse" unit can still provide "decent" support while being IMMENSELY more cost effective and numerous than the "Better Unit". In other words, use the less effective unit if it is half as good as the more effective unit but also a third of the cost so that you can field 3 to 1 and still have a strategic gain. To some extent I do know what the Op is saying but unfortunately I will have to wake him up to the cold hard truth. EVE is about Corporations and Alliances. If your buddies cannot help you make Isk you are not likely to have much. I got with 3 friends and was making 10 TIMES the Isk I made alone. Furthermore, numbers will win but the idea that you just grab inane numbers of Rookie Ships to beat a BS is just...well...BS. It takes time to establish that many friends and get them to work together and the Newbs especailly are SoL when it comes to getting someone to help them out in this regard. As for the example of bringing 6 T1 Rifters to fight 3 Uber Fit Rifters I LOL at that. Yes, go ahead, bring your 6 T1 Rifters, let me bring my 3 Wolves instead. It is a matter of Cost Vs. Effectiveness. If you cannot afford 3 Wolves then yes, if you can bring those 6 Rifters go right ahead, but if you can afford a better group of ships then why bother with crap? That is part of what I feel the Op is asking here. He seems to say "I am flying a PoS and my buds in arms are flying super tripped out ships and so when we go into a fight I am pretty much just a worthless target drone by comparison to the AWESOME Tank and Gank they are providing so why do I even bother? Why do they even tollerate the presence of my pathetic little poor man's ship?". While at the same time realising that at the moment he has no good way of really making that sort of Isk to keep up with them, but that will not change unless he either gets some lucky Ganks or gets some friends that help him make Isk. Though to the Op, if you think that is a bad feeling how about when you realize that with your SP you could not scratch your friend's Tank, EVER, in the SAME class of ship with the very best DPS set-up you can muster? lol. Got to love that about the SP system coupled with the inbalance between races. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
Gamer Maximus	Posted - 2007.12.27 08:40:00 - [108] ummm...my custom Drake, with all T2 equipment (T1 rigs because no one has invented the T2 rigs i wanted yet...) cost about $50 mil, and can out-tank most BS class ships. Either run a few Level 3 missions (some of the stuff you can salvage can get you about 2 mil a pop), or get a corp to "donate" the cash you need, with the return being you "assisting" them in PvP ops. It took me 3 days to raise the $50 mil, it took me 3 months to get the skills for all the T2 equipment.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.27 08:43:00 - [109] my alliance refunds my losses. Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.27 08:51:00 - [110] Since we are talking about corps. I don't know how it is done in general, but in my corp we PvP together, but everyone earns ISK alone. Actually it works well for some ppl; but apparently not for everyone.
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.27 09:07:00 - [111] Our corp provides ships and T1 modules, Theres a limit in place to the number of ships you get in a month (as people were abusing the system and being needlessly reckless), you exceed the limit and generally its time to start bringing your own ships up from empire (or ask one of our carrier pilots to haul one for you, they may or may not tell you to get stuffed)... We also have a fair few 'shared' Battleships sitting in the corp hangers at some of our pos's if you want to rat jump in one of the ships fit it out and off you go, only requirement is you return it to the hanger before you log out and you donate all your salvage and loot to corp (we fund our corp by selling rigs among other things...) It works for our corp may or may not work for yours, I know different corps in our alliance manage things differently...
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.27 09:31:00 - [112] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/12/2007 09:05:03 Op.... In eve... when your in a fleet... your 5 billion set up battleship will last 2 seconds under the fire of 400 ships. Zomg quoting MotherMoon (here's a first!)! Perfect way to say it. I bet my cheap-as-hell plated typhoon or mega outlast any fancy "i have a 1200dps tank" solo BS in a fleet fight Favorite T1 ships to fly solo in: Rifter, Stabber, Harpy, and on all three of those I pretty much only fit T2 guns, maybe a T2 overdrive on the Stabber. Also, I average 5-20mil in my wallet at any given time thanks to my habit of losing a rigged ship within a week of rigging it... I'm cursed I tell ya ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.27 14:23:00 - [113] Originally by: Taua Roqa Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Dirk Magnum Take for example the second-to-best-named web vs. the T2 web. It's not a billionaire's game, in any event. Heh...Fleeting web is better in all aspects than the T2 one. :-/ gg CCP apart from the fact you can't manufacture them in droves in the middle of 0.0. People always forget this when they put down t2 Doesn't matter. It's the only T2 module that's measurably worse than it's best named counterpart. After listening to the latest dev blog I begin to understand how stuff like this slips through the ***s. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes**
HenkieBoy	Posted - 2007.12.27 14:29:00 - [114] Ships and modules can't never win from gangs working together.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.27 14:31:00 - [115] Originally by: Cybele Lanier This is a tangent, but it would be good to see more ship setups in the Ship & Fittings forum that weren't apparently designed for mega-millionaires with skills of Everything V. I'd guess that quite a few people see them and get a false impression that they can't compete. Good tangent, because too many chuckleheads in Ships in Fittings tend to run their DPS numbers based on all associated skills at V, which is complete bovine byproduct. Too many of them I believe are rattling off ship set ups with as much reflection in reality as a fantasy football team.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.27 14:52:00 - [116] Edited by: cal nereus on 27/12/2007 14:55:23 I never fly what I can't afford to lose. There's rarely (but sometimes) a point in fielding a really expensive and awesome ship if my probability of losing it coupled with the personal cost for replacing it is too high, especially when the gain in efficiency in fleet fights is so minute as to be unnoticed in most situations. Of course, this is where a good corporation or alliance can step in, using reimbursements, fleet fits, group isk-earning methods and various other operations to increase the wealth and risk-tolerance of each member, so they will field the better ships. 'Course, the op is right on one point, and that is that it isn't as much of an issue for the billionaires. But again, I don't think that's a bad thing. Some of those billionaires are my alliance-mates. And I'd rather have an alliance-mate who is much wealthier than me than not. Anything to help the cause. I'm not here to compete with my alliance-mates. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.12.27 14:57:00 - [117] No.. it is not
Mourn Navarre Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:27:00 - [118] This is part of why I got rid of my original character that I had since May 2003. At nearly 70M SPs, it wasn't being cost effective to have him anymore. For instance, why would I ever want to put him in a ship that costs less than his clone? I'm also not someone who uses alts (since I only have one system) nor do I do alot of ISK building activities. And after 4 1/2 years, you also end up with alot of dead-end ship and weapon skills. It isn't so bad when you are not making use of say 1/4 of them, but when 3/4 of them aren't being used, then it is a tad annoying. The only way I could make full use of that character's skills is to always fly those really huge and expensive ships when I no longer wanted to do that. I ended up buying this character just so I wouldn't be starting completely from scratch.

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