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PvP? A game for billionairs?

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Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:14:00 - [31] Without straying to much Marines are known for making due with what they have, not the quality of the gear .
Ozstar Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:19:00 - [32] Edited by: Ozstar on 26/12/2007 10:21:46 So this thread is basically about some guy wanting everything handed to him on a plate, and whining when its not. This will probably lead to another Zulupark "balance"
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:21:00 - [33] For solo work it's true that the best examples feature hugely expensive set-ups, with a good chunk of the ISK value being in Snakes or Slaves... There are plenty of people out there however, not as famous but happily soloing in ships which don't have officer fits, which aren't ramped up with boosters, T2 rigs and Pirate implants. The biggest deciding factor between successful solo PvP pilots and unsuccessful ones is not money, skillpoints or fittings, it's knowing when you can afford to fight and when to get the heck out of Dodge. If you have a budget of 30mil per ship and a couple of friends then it's surprising how much damage a roving gang of interceptors can do, if your budget is slightly higher then Recons, flown well, will cause the security channels of whatever alliance you happen to be in the space of to go crazy. If you have a couple more friends then look into the potency of Spidertanking. In short, no. PvP is not a game exclusively for billionaires. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:27:00 - [34] I know quite a few people doing quite well in 100mil-200mil fitted a ships making a living [billions] probing and destroying 3-5 billion faction fitted CNR's. Those 'Billionair' ships are you best income. Stop wasting your time whining for CCP to remove even more stuff from the game. Learn their weaknesses and jack their stuff.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:44:00 - [35] One of the cheapest pvp roles is the scout role. Good scouts who know how to work the scanner and have good probe skills and tactical instinct, can be as important to a fleet as a good FC. Due to this, internally in alliances who know what they are doing, good scouts can become just as famous as good FCs. EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:48:00 - [36] Actually without caring to much about killmails, my part time rifter blitz PvP toon is alot of fun. If I get low on funds I can run L3s if I wanted. EvE is about money and SP's which in other games is levels, so yah its all about isk so go start another whine thread.
Lyn Z Minmatar The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:54:00 - [37] So... this is just a whine because you can't figure out how to make ISK in EVE? Fail. Perhaps all modules and ships should cost 100 ISK and CCP can deposit 100m into everyone's wallets daily?
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Corstaad Actually without caring to much about killmails, my part time rifter blitz PvP toon is alot of fun. If I get low on funds I can run L3s if I wanted. EvE is about money and SP's which in other games is levels, so yah its all about isk so go start another whine thread. Whine thread? That's not a whine at all. It's just an observation of the fact. In 2005 I had less SP, less ISK and less skill and I didn't feel like I'm dragging behind or can't compete. Now I have around 30 mill SP, 1 bill in cash and more experience, yet I feel that I'm hopelessly outISK'ed by today's PvP.
Lyn Z Minmatar The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:59:00 - [39] Funny... I know people who effectively PvP who can only dream of having 1b ISK sitting around in their wallets.
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Estephania Whine thread? That's not a whine at all. It's just an observation of the fact. In 2005 I had less SP, less ISK and less skill and I didn't feel like I'm dragging behind or can't compete. Now I have around 30 mill SP, 1 bill in cash and more experience, yet I feel that I'm hopelessly outISK'ed by today's PvP. ok so where does everyone else get the ISK then to outclass you in pvp such that you feel you're dragging behind and can't compete with them?
mamolian Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:04:00 - [41] OP your a failure. Merry christmas. -----------
Renox Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Estephania I've mentioned that in several other threads, but I feel it was a bit of derailment there, so I'll make a new thread specifically for that discussion. This is not about speed or tank or gank or anything else. Many of those problems are just a symptoms of a larger problem this thread is dedicated to. That problem is that if we are talking about PvP, we are talking about stupid amounts of ISK. Now, I'm getting flamed with statements like "you can PvP from day one", "fit a tackler", "be a scout". Yes, you can do all of that, but I'm talking about an old char that is also happens to be a poor char. Is it possible to PvP effectively without those setups that cost hundreds of millions? Because when you look at alliance killboards, it's all littered with T2 staff with expensive rigs. Lose one, and you'll several hundreds of millions down. Speed s just a manifestation of that problem. In other threads ppl said that speed can be countered with some cheap modules and tactics, that is true (unless we are talking about pimped to hell ship). But what if the said not so rich pilot wants to go roaming himself? Is that a one way ticket nowadays? Or is blobbing the only thing that left for those without billions in the wallet? How CCP is going to make this game interesting again for those veteran pilots who also don't have immense ISK to play with pirate implants, polycarbs and faction gear? Roaming on your own is todays Eve is tough unless you do cloak or speed. You can however do cheap versions of most pimp setups and get a decent performance from them. Sure you will most likely lose a 1 v 1 against the 1 bil version of your setup but there is always a bigger fish. Get a few friends together and the playing field starts to level a bit more. TheJay > grrr slow stupid garlic eating surrender monkeys
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Sicil Fioet Originally by: Estephania Whine thread? That's not a whine at all. It's just an observation of the fact. In 2005 I had less SP, less ISK and less skill and I didn't feel like I'm dragging behind or can't compete. Now I have around 30 mill SP, 1 bill in cash and more experience, yet I feel that I'm hopelessly outISK'ed by today's PvP. ok so where does everyone else get the ISK then to outclass you in pvp such that you feel you're dragging behind and can't compete with them? I run only one account. Everyone I know runs 2 or more. I know ppl with private motherships or with enough ISK to buy an outpost. How they do it. Large scale T2 production with tons of BPOs, large scale invention of very expensive things, tons of chars grinding RP's from dozens of R&D agents. I doubt you can do this well with just one account no matter how hard you try.
Kransthow AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:11:00 - [44] Isk does not equal success
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:12:00 - [45] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Sicil Fioet Originally by: Estephania Whine thread? That's not a whine at all. It's just an observation of the fact. In 2005 I had less SP, less ISK and less skill and I didn't feel like I'm dragging behind or can't compete. Now I have around 30 mill SP, 1 bill in cash and more experience, yet I feel that I'm hopelessly outISK'ed by today's PvP. ok so where does everyone else get the ISK then to outclass you in pvp such that you feel you're dragging behind and can't compete with them? I run only one account. Everyone I know runs 2 or more. I know ppl with private motherships or with enough ISK to buy an outpost. How they do it. Large scale T2 production with tons of BPOs, large scale invention of very expensive things, tons of chars grinding RP's from dozens of R&D agents. I doubt you can do this well with just one account no matter how hard you try. You chose the wrong title for your post. It should be - how to make a lot of isks with a single account, instead of pvp is only for billionairs. People hove proven you wrong on your statement that pvp is only for the rich. EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:13:00 - [46] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Sicil Fioet ok so where does everyone else get the ISK then to outclass you in pvp such that you feel you're dragging behind and can't compete with them? I run only one account. Everyone I know runs 2 or more. I know ppl with private motherships or with enough ISK to buy an outpost. How they do it. Large scale T2 production with tons of BPOs, large scale invention of very expensive things, tons of chars grinding RP's from dozens of R&D agents. I doubt you can do this well with just one account no matter how hard you try. ok so they pay more, they play more, and hence they have more stuff than you and you think this is unfair? this is just usually how it goes in mmo games and you either put up with it, find your own niche and don't compete against the uber players who can afford this kind of play style, or you don't play mmos at all btw, even with one account you can make at least a billion each month and even several bil is quite doable
iiOs Caldari Deathwatch Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:18:00 - [47] A billion is in your wallet makes you: - Greedy - Full of yourself - Afford some nice stuff - Able to brag in local in Jita. It does NOT make you: - PvP better - Win fights - Superl337 k\|ll\|ng machine - Score with the ladies Its all bout the way, not the means.
Psychotic Civilian	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:22:00 - [48] STFU and go play WoW
Upsa	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Upsa on 26/12/2007 11:26:33 Originally by: Psychotic Civilian STFU and go play WoW yeah and go to play tetris ? pathTtic post another stupid troll post for nothing and what now go to sleep after ?
Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:38:00 - [50] Edited by: Niama on 26/12/2007 11:44:48 Originally by: Dubious Drewski Originally by: MotherMoon 3 tech 1 rifters can kill a 200 mil set up rifter. This is a very important point - one that needs repeating. Its exactly what the op said. This game is for billionaires. Even high SP characters need to blob to manage anything. In the end its the player that feels a lack of control and a desensitisation with his character due to inability to use him/her to even 50% of its potential. Its really a pitiful turn for a lot of players out there. Eve is becoming fast much worse than real life. The divide between rich and poor is becoming huge, and unfortunately the middle class in EVE cant feel the gap because they aint many. I hope Me economist that is employed by ccp is looking at these numbers and understands the concequences on the game. E.G. you trained for t2 ships and capitals. Has anyone seen the costs ? And im talking about the cost of buying skills and the ship with t2 stuff, not the cost of losing one. Yes you can be the "tackler" the "scout" all the things we say to new pilots to draw them in the game and make them do the sometimes "boring" work of pvp while we sit behind 300+ mil t2 hacs or other ships and glamorise on our Killmail entries (which are ranked by damage, dropping out scouts and/or tacklers if high numbers). Goonswarm had the numbers , had the t1 cheap ships, and what did they manage to do ? They were pwned from day one by bob and others, till goonies got better (see: more expensive) ships and skills and came back with a purpose. Whoever fails to see behind the curtain of pretending and good will, fails to undeerstand basic game-player environments.
baltec1	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:39:00 - [51] Oh stop crying, I PvP all the time in an Arbitrator/punisher. I can't fly battleships with any efficency yet let alone afford them but I still manage to take part in mass BS fleet engagements and hunting down pirates. I dont think I have ever spent more than 30 mil on a setup. Make the best use of what you have rather than *****ing about what you don't have.
Vindoes	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:43:00 - [52] Problem: I just made a trial-account and i can't kill a one yr old char. Solution: Turn off computer and use book. lvl1 reading required. this skill CAN be trained on trial accounts.
Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:48:00 - [53] Originally by: baltec1 Oh stop crying, I PvP all the time in an Arbitrator/punisher. I can't fly battleships with any efficency yet let alone afford them but I still manage to take part in mass BS fleet engagements and hunting down pirates. I dont think I have ever spent more than 30 mil on a setup. Make the best use of what you have rather than *****ing about what you don't have. That is the absolute truth. Make the best use of what you have. HOWEVER the op is talking about the game mechanics of SP to efficiency with isk. These are 2 different things.
N'irrti Amarr PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:54:00 - [54] EPIC FAIL WoW is this way ----------->
baltec1	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:57:00 - [55] Its easy to be efficient in this game. If you cannot afford to lose a ship then don't use it in pvp. I have a battleship I use for missions/ratting that will never see any pvp due to the fact that I cannot afford to lose it. So rather than getting it killed I use cruisers and frigates and equipment which is easily afforable. I can use better but I set myself a limit and stick to it. This means that I never run out of cash and will always have ships. Its also important to not blow away your ships like flies to a bug zapper. If you use your head you wont be poor no matter what ship you can fly
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:59:00 - [56] Edited by: umop 3pisdn on 26/12/2007 12:02:01 To the op: You can be successful in solo PVP in an assault frigate or interceptor (i use afterburner + armor tanking taranis) but HACs have the speed and firepower to take on battleships, this is important since ratting battleships are one of the main targets of solo hunters. You dont need billions but you will feel much better about it if you have a fat wallet to replace any losses you take (and if you arent a good pilot you will lose a lot of isk, SP is irrelevant.) Dont use polycarbons, their benefits are to speed and speed alone, they are nice for rich kids and those with no imagination but you can find other setups much cheaper (inertia rigs, MWD cap use rigs etc.) that are nearly as effective. If you want to use a nano hac a full t2 fit is fine, with t1 rigs of course, it is not cheap by my wallet but it is effective and very fun. You can solo in a battlecruiser and kill ratters for cheap, but you will have very limited success due to blobs and local, CCP arent doing a damn thing to fix either so i'd say go for the nanohacs. Edit: wait.. you have 1bil and you're complaining? thats like 5 well fit nanohacs... flown well nano hacs actually make PROFIT.. especially with arbalest cruise hitting 10mil isk again.
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:36:00 - [57] Originally by: Ozstar Edited by: Ozstar on 26/12/2007 10:21:46 So this thread is basically about some guy wanting everything handed to him on a plate, and whining when its not. This will probably lead to another Zulupark "balance" Zulu: AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! What's you favorite setup? I won't nerf it... I promise -----
Cornette Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:37:00 - [58] Originally by: Estephania Whine thread? That's not a whine at all. It's just an observation of the fact. In 2005 I had less SP, less ISK and less skill and I didn't feel like I'm dragging behind or can't compete. Now I have around 30 mill SP, 1 bill in cash and more experience, yet I feel that I'm hopelessly outISK'ed by today's PvP. OP, it is your attitude that is holding you back. Your fixation of other peoples SP and Isk is what makes you feel inferior to them. If you constantly tell yourself "I can't compete until I have X number of sp and X number of zeros in the wallet" then you never will enjoy this game because so many others will always be ahead of you. You say that you PVP, but the tone of your posts makes me question if you do it voluntarily or only when you are forced to it. Maybe you need to find a nice group of pvpers and be part of their gang? I promise you a good one with a good fc can be a confidence booster where you learn the ins and out of it, and very enjoyable too. If that doesn't help then I'm afraid EVE isn't for you. //Cornette
heheheh Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:52:00 - [59] you can be a billionare in one day if you used your head
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2007.12.26 13:16:00 - [60] Some of the replies are pure fantasy. More ISK per ship = more success per ship with all other things being equal More friends per gang = more success per gang with all other things being equal So make as much ISK as you can and join a gang with as many friends as you can to maximize success for the factors brought up by the OP. OR get a Rifter, find a gang that will most likely engage against similar numbers/strength, now your gang has roughly equal strength + 1 Rifter. All other factors being equal, 3 1.5m Rifter SHOULDN'T beat 3 200m Rifters, otherwise there would be NO point in making ISK for more expensive ships or ever buying t2 anything. So yes, billionaire PVP is for billionaires. If you don't have the ISK your ships will be slightly less effective. However it isn't hard to make enough ISK to bring ships that make a noticeable difference in your gang and can fill their role very well (personal favorite used to be the 3x damp Caracal costing 1-2m after insurance). At least not from my observations. Also bringing more ships to a fight than the enemy is the antithesis of structured arena style combat, so I don't understand why it gets knocked so much. You can either restrict people to bring a set number of ships per fight, or not. Personally I like it the way it is. So, thumbs up "Blobbing"? "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus

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